April 11, 2007
About Those Polls

The P-I's Strange Bedfellows blog recently posed the question: "Has Giuliani locked up the GOP nomination?"

In answering the question, the post relies on a Pew study that examines in part the value of early national polls in predicting Presidential Primary winners. The blog leans toward giving Rudy Giuliani a forecasted win based on his "dominating the polls on the Republican side."

Giuliani is in a strong position currently, despite a recent stumble or two. But here's a better idea: ignore the national polls.

Mark Blumenthal at Pollster.com has done some fantastic analysis as of late on understanding the Presidential primary process and the polls that cover it. He recently found a stark discrepancy (with more here) between who gets surveyed in national primary polls versus those who actually participate in Presidential primaries and caucuses:

Thus, for the Democratic primary preference for example, national surveys are reporting the views of 35% to 55% of their adult samples that identify as Democrats or Democratic "leaners" when the people we really care about - those whose votes will ultimately choose the nominee - are likely to amount to less than 10% of adults.

This raises serious questions about the value of early polls.

Looking back on the 2004 Democratic primary, the most recent, competitive such contest, shows an interesting lack of correlation between the early national polls and the actual results. Fall 2003 polls from Zogby and Marist College showed John Kerry and John Edwards buried deep in the pack. So too did a December 2003 poll from CBS.

Polls in the early states of Iowa and New Hampshire were more helpful as the contests approached. Assorted pre-caucus polls in Iowa showed Howard Dean in the lead before catching a late shift toward John Kerry. In New Hampshire, polls showed Dean in the lead until the results of the Iowa caucuses took over the news cycle; then it was all Kerry.

The bigger trend to notice is the profound impact of the outcomes in Iowa and New Hampshire on the national race. Blumenthal taps some in-depth, post-2004 analysis revealing the startling reversal in national polls based on the results in those early states:

Just before Iowa, according to the ANES data, only 9% of those planning to vote in the Democratic primaries or caucuses nationally supported Kerry. Kerry shot up after his Iowa caucus victory, approaching 50% in the week before New Hampshire and hitting 68% by the end of February. At the same time, Howard Dean's support collapsed, falling from 31% in early January to near zero by March, while John Edwards, who finished a surprisingly strong second in Iowa, saw his national support grow from 5% to 25%.

The graphic here shows just how profound the shift was.

Why? Blumenthal says the early contests

effectively winnow the field. While news accounts may emphasize the large field of candidates before the early primaries (with an emphasis on front-runners), the coverage afterwards focuses far more intensely on the early winners. The result is that also-ran candidates either drop out entirely, or effectively drop out of site, a process that simplifies voter choices.

Furthermore,

the horse race nature of the coverage leads voters to more positive evaluations of the winners and more negative evaluations of the losers. Media accounts portray the winners and their campaigns as competent and able, while the losers look hapless and faltering. Which set of characteristics would you want in a president?

Each Presidential primary process is unique, plus they occur infrequently enough it's difficult to infer many standing rules for how they will unfold. Yet, the last competitive primary in anything near the 24-hour news cycle now the norm in America showed pre-primary national polls to have almost no predictive value.

Maybe Giuliani is primed to secure the nomination. He's the front-runner for now. And sure, national polls are great sport for political junkies to track, especially in the modern, information-hungry news environment. But those interested in who is actually going to be nominated by either party may want to keep a closer eye on Iowa and New Hampshire in the coming months than on Gallup and company.


**Note: a great resource for 2008 polls at the national and state level is available from RealClearPolitics.

UPDATE: link fixed.

Posted by Eric Earling at April 11, 2007 08:09 AM | Email This
Comments
1. Which Republicon will get nominated, to just be slaughtered at the polls in November? After 8 years of the Bush trainwreck anyone thinking America will appoint another con president needs to check in somewhere.

Bush, and his partners in crime have completely destroyed the myth of the cons. They are truly exposed as the dishonest, incompetent, hate filled hypocrites they have always been. Maybe in a generation their party can come back when the Dems abuse their power again.

And the investigations have just begun....

Posted by: Facts on April 11, 2007 08:23 AM
2. Once again facts has proven his name to be opinion.

GO FRED THOMPSON 2008!!!!

Posted by: TrueSoldier on April 11, 2007 08:31 AM
3. Anyone not previously having gotten their morning fix of Bush Derangement Syndrome can relax now.

Posted by: TB on April 11, 2007 08:39 AM
4. Giuliani sure had some missteps in S. Carolina.

I am still curious of the Romney situation. Here is a guy who got $20 million in the first quarter- heads and shoulders above the other candidates in the R party; yet, he is a distant second or third in most of the popularity contests.

He is also clearly the most business oriented with the strongest management skills of the other candidates. I am curious how this campaign, which seems to still be setting up, will go in the future. His candidacy and campaign really intrigues me.

If, as you say, the voters decide at the first of the year, why would you want to be early frontrunner? But, how late is late to be getting to the party- i.e. Newt and Thompson? And when will the also rans start getting weaned from the field?

And I still can't figure out how Kerry got the nomination the last time out. I know the Clinton machine didn't want Dean, but is that the only reason?

Posted by: swatter on April 11, 2007 08:41 AM
5. Draft Fred!! http://draftfredthompson.com/

Posted by: John425 on April 11, 2007 08:42 AM
6. Dang, I read this blog for local politics, and now we get a sports-bar approach to a national election eighteen months away. Coulda-woulda-shoulda in reverse chronology? What a waste.

Posted by: Hank Bradley on April 11, 2007 09:16 AM
7. All politics are local. Locals got swamped last election. Locals say it was because of national politics and moods. Enough nexus?

How about local Rs are in disarray? Local disarray caused swamping of fishing boat?

How about, "where have all the R local politicians gone?"

This article was a nice break from the hijacked threads on GW and a brief respite from the same old same old discussion on transportation.

And besides, I like the comments from posters like yourself.

Posted by: swatter on April 11, 2007 09:38 AM
8. Giuliani is really creepy. He doesn't care about the border, and he's a narcissist.

I'm pulling for Ron Paul. The closest thing to a John C. Calhoun this side of 1960.

Posted by: Torquemada on April 11, 2007 10:23 AM
9. Don't you think it's a little late for Fred to jump in the PUSA game? I mean even flip-floppers like Mitt Romney have raised $25mil. Fred still has to hire a staff, grab endorsements, and raise somewhere close to $2 Billion for the general election. He's already several million behind and he hasn't even left that gate yet. Looks like he has cancer too, bummer.

Posted by: Cato on April 11, 2007 10:43 AM
10. There was a great post at Townhall.com yesterday called "Is It Too Late For Fred?" which posits that the rise of the blogosphere is going to change a lot of the traditional ideas regarding timing for Presidential candidates. I suspect that any polls about the primaries using the traditional assumptions are going to be 'way out in left field.

Posted by: sro on April 11, 2007 10:44 AM
11.
I'd prefer

4 More Years of W
Our First Italian-American President, Rudy Giulian

In that order...

Posted by: John Bailo on April 11, 2007 10:51 AM
12. Still too early to tell...besides it will all be over in less than 10 months. IMHO, it will clearly be a Clinton/Giuliani vote. Idealists from either party never win the actual nomination.

Posted by: Cato on April 11, 2007 10:56 AM
13. Right, Cato, idealists like Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan never won their parties' nominations.

Posted by: sro on April 11, 2007 11:34 AM
14. Idealists who started strong but did not win party nomination:
Tsongas 1992, Alexander 1996, McCain 2000, Dean 2004, Romney/Thompson/Obama 2008?

Posted by: Cato on April 11, 2007 11:42 AM
15. tsongas- cancer but I don't know if it was in 1992.
alexander- couldn't overcome it was "dole's turn".
McCain- an idealist? "swift boated"? oops, wrong election
dean- hated by the clintons.

Posted by: swatter on April 11, 2007 02:35 PM
16. The liberal media has picked Guiliani and McCain for the the Republican candidates. That should tell Republicans something about them.

Go Fred Thompson!

Posted by: diedre on April 11, 2007 03:54 PM
17. Let's not forget that California & Texas love Rudy while the straw polls seem to go for Thompson. Heck for a guy has about as much experience as Obama he's doing pretty well. Talk about an empty suit candidate.

Of course polls are usually wrong.

Posted by: Cato on April 11, 2007 04:35 PM
18. 6 years vs. 2 years? Well, at least he was re-elected by his constituents, unlike Obama....we don't even know if his own state likes him or not.

Posted by: diedre on April 11, 2007 04:54 PM
19. Giuliani didn't misstep in SC. He went into the lion's den and told them, I'm not backing down on abortion. He showed more spine than any American poltician in about 50 years with that move.

Posted by: Zippi on April 12, 2007 03:31 AM
20. Nice try, Facts, but you are bloviating opinions only. If the Dems ran someone for a change with an ounce of integrity, they would be a force to be reckoned with.

People can spot phonies like the Clintons, Edwards and Kerry. Obama may have the best shot if he moves to the center. Giuliani looks the strongest on the Repub side, and the term neo-con outside of the Bush-bots is rather nebulus. Anyone who favors the Iraq war from the get-go and wouldn't do it any differently now is probably the best example of a neo-con.
I also like Fred Thompson and believe he has the least baggage of any candidate so far, besides being a true conservative.

In the Dem circles, some could be called neo-commies - those who support open borders, think that Bush Administration should be prosecuted for war crimes and that we need to give the enemy a timetable as to when we leave Iraq. Let's see - Harry Reid, Ted Kennedy, Howard Dean come to mind as a few prominent ones, besides the obvious local one - McDimwitt.

Posted by: KS on April 12, 2007 07:05 PM
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