The Seattle School District has announced two finalists for the Superintendent position -- Charleston, SC Superintendent Maria Goodloe-Johnson and Philadelphia Chief Academic Officer Greg Thornton.
Thornton has been at the Philadelphia post less than three years and in his previous district for only 2 years. Goodloe-Johnson has held her job only three and a half years and is barely half-way through her 6-year "Plan for Excellence".
The Seattle School Board is such a sewer of idiocy that it's hard to imagine that many qualified people would even want to apply for the job, but you'd think that the Board would want a Superintendent who's had a track record of substantial accomplishments over time, or at least finishes what they start. Unless that's too much to expect in public education.
Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at April 03, 2007 06:00 PM | Email ThisWhite folk need not apply.
Posted by: Eric on April 3, 2007 06:37 PMBut heck, this is Seattle. We'll be told to celebrate the hiring of one of these two regardless of their histories.
1: Do you think adding more money via higher property taxes would turn the Seattle School district around?
And
2: Do you think adding more money via higher property taxes would turn the Seattle School district around?
If they answered No and No - They were eliminated from the position.
If they answered Yes and Yes - They were accepted into the Seattle School District, with massive raises to boot.
If they answered Yes and No, or No and Yes, they were sent to the King County election department for a senior position.
:)
Posted by: GS on April 3, 2007 06:50 PMI agree that their resumes seem a bit on the thin side but in many instances it's the attitude & enthusiasm that counts, rather than the useless education courses & the lack of quantifiable results in other positions.
Sometimes a person just has to find his or her niche in order to make a difference. Lets fact it, the district at this point can hardly afford to be too choosey plus their previous choices have not worked out too well in the past.
Maybe it's time to try a different tack & try for a new direction. Of course, a different school board would also help. Get rid of the dinosaurs and try to get new blood on the board; that will help a new superintendent more than book learning.
Posted by: Clean House on April 3, 2007 07:53 PMGo Seattle, go...
Posted by: righton on April 3, 2007 09:22 PM2. Sups are held accountable for results, but in
fact have little real power:
a. Hire and fire - NYC studied how long and
how much time it took to get rid of criminals
and ped1files: about 3 years and $250,000 per
teacher. Locally, the lamestream Times is
trying to open the files on coaches and others
but the WEA is fighting them.
b. Budgets are highly regulated
c. Schools are a highly regulated industry as to
school terms and days
d. Adversarial stakeholders like:
School Boards
Union Leadership
Administration Bureaucrats
Media
Parents
Business
These interests may sometimes align, but often
collide.
Here is my mantra, the insitutional structure is broken and cannot be fixed. We need competition in education. I understand the district has an excellent health plan and the next sup can get valium and other meds before they leave in about 28 months.
I thought this Youtube video would about summarize our public school education system. It is played to the backdrop of the 'Daisy Ad'.
Posted by: swatter on April 4, 2007 06:52 AMMaria is not a Hispanic name. It's a name used in many countries like Germany, Austria, Italy, Greece. What a moron.
Seattle schools are NOT a sewer. We have many, many great schools in our district. In fact, if you ask most parents (really, go ask any public school parent on the street), they will overwhelmingly tell you, they like their school but hate the district management.
Dr. Thorton has School Stat which is a tracking system to keep principals informed on how their schools are doing. Dr. Goodloe-Johnson seems to be well-liked in her district and completed special training to be a superintendent (not a lot do).
Why don't you suspend judgment until you know more?
Posted by: westello on April 4, 2007 08:27 AMI don't think well-liked should be a criteria for this type of management job.
Posted by: swatter on April 4, 2007 08:55 AMI can't quite afford private school for both my kids next year, but I can tell you I'm so desperate to get my kids out of Seattle Public Schools, that I've considered 1) breaking my lease and fleeing to the suburbs, 2) bribing my ex-husband to take one of the kids (he lives in another district), 3) trying to juggle home-schooling with my full-time job, and 4) letting my older son quit school (it's just a social experiment anyway; reading, writing, and arithmetic are secondary).
Posted by: Cinda on April 4, 2007 09:00 AMI did look up the stats on sups, its called dissertation. The revolving door of sups is just in the last 10 years. Guess what, there is a corrolation between the rise and entrenchment of teachers unions and the decreasing longevity of sups. In the recent past it was not unusual for them to serve longer than five years.
What sups are currently facing is pretty close to an impossible job. They are held accountable for student achievement and unlike a CEO of most corps don't have the tools to accomplish that objective because their powers are quite limited.
It really doesn't matter what color the sup is in Seattle, the situation is such that they are being set up to fail. Riley, a Caucasian man, of the Eastside district probably could have had the job, if he wanted it. I wonder if he looked at the books, negotiation timeline for teacher contracts, considering the SEA is now affliated with the AFL-CIO, and the tests scores from the academic achievement department and decided to give it a pass. It is certainly easier to set up a person of color to fail, after all parents of color who are screaming about disproporionality can now scream at one of their own.
The district has some intractable issues, the north side divide. Perception may be true or not, but if enough people believe it, it takes on its own kind of reality.
1. The north side divide
a. More voters in the north of the district
b. Population of children increasing in
the south of the district
2. The increasing number of children of color
and immigrant children
a. language issues
b. issues of poverty
c. fractured family issues
3. Increasing number of special needs children
because parents move to Seattle for services.
4. One levy does not make a trend, but the level of public support
Yes, Westello I have done the research, but the revolving door is recent.
1. Write a form letter which can be sent to
private and parochial schools inquiring
about scholarships and how to apply. Take
it to Kinkos or other copier and mass
mail to all schools in your area. Mass mail
the inquiry.
2. Put the info on an Excel sheet and apply
to appropriate schools
A lot of parents uncover resources by going to the
library and finding their own scholarships and grants. Good luck on doing what is best for your child.
Because that would require them to follow the words of Christ ("Judge not..."), and to act in a conservative way.
Without judging, I only observe that no one here appears to post in a conservative manner. Only Pharisaical.
I mean, I assume every single one of the critics either home schooled their kids, or sent them to private schools, right? Or, if they stayed in public schools, they volunteered to help, yes?
Or are they only willing to bitch about things in the abstract (hard to believe there are many actual parents here, and not people making ideological points), and not do
How many have you have run for school board? How many of you have voted for school board?
Pharisees. Which is what my beloved Republican party has been reduced to.
Posted by: Laszlo Toth, Jr on April 4, 2007 09:47 AMMy feeling is that Seattle has become just a minor stop for someone who wants to pad their resume and their bank account before they move on in a few months.
But what can Seattle expect? The whole situation is out of control. Screaming, violent parents without any perspective for the greater good with leftist lesson plans and policies that cripple students for a lifetime.
First, although I am not a theologian, you are missing the part of the Scripture which taken in complete context means that there are standards, but ultimately the comparison is based on the Perfect One, because we are sinners, we fall short and therefore need Him. I believe that is correct theology. Secular progresives often use the section you quote to justify their behavior.
Second, although conservative, I am an indie and not pubbie. I have a doctorate and have studied education issues. Now, let's get down to the meat of this issue. Society is expecting sups to be miracle workers and raise achievement scores, deal with issues of disintigrating families and the impact of societal on education, teachers unions, and other stakeholders. But, society has not given them the tools and authority to really do the job.
Try and fire an incompetant. It is easier to move them from school to school like the Catholic Church did with pedophile priests.
The question is not so much these current sup sacrifices to an out-dated institutional structure. The question is given where we are now given the needs of the society, the population of school children in public schools, and the needs of modern education for society - does this large school district and school board structure work anymore? Otherwise the revolving door of sups will become the insitutionalized norm
Amen, Brother.
Posted by: WVH on April 4, 2007 11:00 AMI will let you in on a little "holy-water cooler" secret -- regardless of what Father Big Heart or Sister Mary Rosary say, many of the front-line private school teachers don't want your child if they have been in a public school for more than three years -- first the child is usually a year or more behind the regular class, and second many public school transfers have real behavioral issues.
Posted by: Lew on April 4, 2007 02:33 PMI was just debating that very subject with my stockbroker who had her kids attend private school. She says they are starting to suck because there are no nuns.
Posted by: swatter on April 4, 2007 04:32 PMLew, I guess I've got to get thicker skin if I want to post on message boards; your comments hurt.
Posted by: Cinda on April 4, 2007 07:33 PMIf you look at the specific reasons why the last few Seattle superintendents have left, there are many guilty parties, but the unions don't appear to be among them. The unions may need to be reined in, but when you blame them for everything, it sounds more like your ideology speaking than actual analysis.
Posted by: Bruce on April 4, 2007 08:50 PMI will have to dig into my dissertation research, but I do have a conference report and there is a manuscript which I don't know if it has been published. Both look at the effect of unions on education achievement and I remember a footnote or something regarding the effect on superintendents. My aren't we secular progresives getting a bit touchy. My comments were general, I don't think that I specifically referred to Seattle. After all, John Stanford unfortunately died too soon. I really can't blame that on the union.
I would have to dig through boxes of research, but here are some resources.
Brown Center on Education Policy. (2000). Teachers unions: Do they help or hurt
education reform? Retrieved April 18, 2000 from
http://www.brookings.edu/comm/transcripts/20000411a.htm
Kerchner, C. T., & Koppich, J. E. (1993). A union of professionals: Labor relations
and education reform. New York, NY: Teachers College Press, Columbia
University.
Loveless, T. (Ed.). Conflicting missions? Teachers unions and educational reform.
Washington DC: Brookings Institution Press.
You secular progressives have a sense of human that is similar to the Bolsheviks.
Posted by: WVH on April 4, 2007 09:57 PMCatholic schools are not the only alternative in Seattle. It is my understanding and I know children that have received scholarships from both Bush and Lakeside. If one has a talented child and they score high on tests, there are resources available. The procedure is similar to what many kids do for college, ask around to see what is available.
Posted by: WVH on April 4, 2007 10:01 PMYou don't have to worry about developing a thicker skin to post here. Just say what you want to say, if people don't agree, so be it. I wish you every success in doing what is best for your children. Don't let the geezers get to you.
Posted by: WVH on April 4, 2007 10:05 PMDon't want to get sent to the corner for spelling violations:
To Bruce:
You secular progressives have a sense of humor that is similar to the Bolsheviks
Posted by: WVH on April 4, 2007 10:07 PMthat said, Seattle school district should be lucky to get anyone w a degree, so i guess its not that material to the debate.
i feel sorry for the person who wins
Posted by: righton on April 5, 2007 06:41 AMI feel sorry for any person who is a big city sup these days. The job is close to impossible. Big cities face many of the same problems:
a. Increasingly public school populations consist
of poorer children and no matter what the color
of the child, poverty presents certain
challenges.
b. Families are increasingly fractured and
support for families is not there.
c. Increasing populations of immigrant children
who have language and culture adjustment
problems.
d. A societal distain and lack of appreciation
of education. Jaywalking was on last night.
Ignorance in the society is breathtaking
e. A society that demands a high level of
technical skills
These sups are expected to be accountable, but they exist in a highly regulated environment and
Bruce have at it when I make this next statement, unions don't help sups to be accountable for achieving student academic achievement. We are now at a point that the individuals who populate the potential sup pool have invested so much time in education that this is their career until they retire. What we now have is a revolving door of sups who last about three years in a job. It is now becoming the insitutional norm that they last about three years. I don't want to put words in Westello's comments above, but they seem to think this is the new normal. My question is should this revolving door be the new normal?
The insitutional structure of large school district with a dysfunctional school board and regulation which strangles innovation at the local school level does not work. It does not and will not serve the population of kids in public schools. If the society wants to hold these folks accountable, they need poswers to hire and fire all staff.
I actually read the Charleston plan. It is not bad. The question I have is why is she leaving before implementation is complete. Was there intractable push back from a stakeholder(s) and won't the same thing happen here?
Posted by: WVH on April 5, 2007 09:51 AMor will we (gasp) learn our boring 'times tables' and other non-sexy practical stuff like the Classics or critical/analytical thinking without all the p.c. Every-Ethnicity-but-American-Culture-Day Celebration crap?
time will tell. not holding breath on this one. another smiley Sims figurehead not held to final account. tie this new person's salary to results. increments of 20% for failure/success. no pain no gain. then i'll believe their sales shtick.
Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on April 5, 2007 09:59 AMthe time for "suspension of judgement" is long past. any grocery clerk that cant bag properly is fired. same with 'buck stops here' leaders.
libs cry 'buck stops' at a sitting President or other opposition leader. so, it's fair for all. edu leaders too. same for T. Bergerson.
Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on April 5, 2007 10:08 AM