March 28, 2007
Sometimes The Seattle Times Is Embarrassing To Read

For example, when they assign Mark Rahner to interview (by email) physicists Brian Greene and Stephen Hawking.  Mark Rahner may know something about pop culture, but he does not know enough about science to interview these two men, at least not without studying far more than he did.

After reading the exchanges, which you can find here and here, I felt as if I should apologize to Greene and Hawking, even though I had nothing to do with allowing Rahner to do these interviews.  That's silly, but the interviews really were that bad, a combination of flippant questions and ignorance.

There was one unintentionally interesting exchange, which revealed that both Rahner and Hawking are, to be polite, misinformed:

Q: What do you -- searching for a unified theory of the cosmos -- make of what seems to be growing dismissal of science, from global warming to stem-cell research to evolution?  As you may know, Seattle is home to the Discovery Institute, which promotes "Intelligent Design."

A: The swing against science occurred during the Bush years mainly in America rather than in the rest of the world.  But now there's a reaction in the last year.  Climate change has become a global concern.  Stem-cell research was never out of favor in Europe and the law in the U.S. is likely to change when Bush goes.  And the debate on evolution is being won.

What evidence does Rahner give for a "growing dismissal of science"?  None.  And I have seen none in public opinion polls.

Nor is the debate about stem-cell research a debate about science.  Instead it is a moral debate; those opposed to embryonic stem cell research oppose it because they believe it requires the taking of innocent life.  There's nothing new about such debates; there are all sorts of interesting experiments that could be done if scientists were allowed to treat humans as they treat rats — but many of those experiments are forbidden by law, for moral reasons.

What that exchange shows is that even a brilliant man like Hawkings can be fooled by foolish journalists.  Hawking is not a biologist nor an American, so perhaps he can be excused for not knowing the facts about the embryonic stem cell controversy here.  Briefly, the US government had never funded embryonic stem cell research until President Bush came into office.  He changed this, providing funds for research using existing stem cell lines.  He was, I repeat, the first president to provide such funds.  He did not block private funding for such research, nor even funding by other governments in the US.  Despite what Professor Hawking thinks, restrictions on embryonic stem cell research are common in other nations, including some European nations.

Let me close by providing some questions that Rahner might have asked, if he were better informed, and if he were less flippant.  He might, for instance, have asked Greene this question: What, in your opinion, are the strongest arguments against string theory?  And since Rahner raised a public policy question to Hawking, let me suggest this question:  President Clinton cut back funds for research in may fields.  The Superconducting Super Collider was killed by a Democratic congress while he was in office.  In contrast, President Bush has sharply increased funding for scientific research, but has directed most of the increase toward biology.  Do you think this shift of public money from physics to biology is good policy?

Feel free to suggest your own questions in the comments.  But, please, try to phrase them better than Rahner did.

(Note to anyone at the Seattle Times who knows why Rahner was assigned to do this story:   Would you please send me an explanation, privately?

This isn't the first time I have caught Rahner blowing an interview; he botched the interview with New York Times columnist Frank Rich, too.)

Posted by Jim Miller at March 28, 2007 04:58 PM | Email This
Comments
1. Jim the only "growing dismissal of science" I have seen is the dismissal of science in regards to global warming.

Posted by: TrueSoldier on March 28, 2007 05:27 PM
2. The 'dismissal of science' in regard to global warming is double-edged. Yes, the political movement to throw enormous resources at GW studies cites 'science', but it's more closely related to Lenin's references to 'scientific socialism'. He believed that his governing theories were indeed supported by science, which would overcome mere religion in guiding the masses. But now it seems that certain organizations which include some scientists have adopted a religious approach to GW.

The worst 'dismissals of science' regarding GW are exemplified by the requests of the Royal Society (and other true-believing bodies) to curtail funding for research that questions the 1990 conclusions of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) that GW was human-induced.

Science by consensus, or majority votes, is not science - it's stampede politics. Were the Royal Society still a body promoting the expansion of scientific inquiry, it would encourage and promote skepticism of that stampede. Science is founded on skepticism of everything, including true believers chucking numbers around. Now that the Royal Society and its political cronies are out to defund the heretics that challenge the IPCC, it's debased itself into a religious cult, with no more credibility or reasoning than Einstein's critics displayed in their challenges to relativity.

Posted by: Hank Bradley on March 28, 2007 06:01 PM
3. There is dismissal of science and then thre is dismissal of "science." Political consensus smacke of the latter, Crushing dissenting opinion smacks of the latter, demonizing dissenters smacks of the latter...........and I could go on and on and on. They have provided a target rich environment, ergo they have opened themselves up to crushing defeat. This is just one more manifestation of the attempt to get "science" accepted as fact through intimadation tactics. They weaken their argument further with each new chapter that is nothing morer than another veiled attempt to force acceptance of a politically correct conclusion rather than to go back and clean up their research methodology.

Posted by: JDH on March 28, 2007 06:20 PM
4. There are two main reasons people go into journalism. The first is to save the world and the second is that they can not handle the math required for anything more challenging.

Posted by: Huey on March 28, 2007 06:35 PM
5. Call it the dismissal of scientific method.

Posted by: JCM on March 28, 2007 06:57 PM
6. Questions for Hawking:

1) Dr. Hawking, all empirical data seems to suggest that the universe began at a fixed point in space and time with a "big bang." And yet, you have labored mightily to suggest that that may not have been the case. You've been unable to prove this, and what formalas you have provided have used imaginary numbers. Handy as they may be for getting past square roots of negatives, would you have preferred not to have had to use imaginary numbers? And is there something about the universe having a definite beginning that bothers you on an emotional level?

2) You assert that the debate on evolution is being won, but unless the Seattle Times edited out the really interesting part of your answer (always a possibility), you left this as an unsupported assertion. Biological microevolution is well accepted and evident in nature all around us. But could you refresh our fleeting memories as to the new discoveries which are winning the debate on biological macroevolution? Have new fossils explained away the Cambrian Explosion? And on chemical evolution, has someone actually figured out how carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen and oxygen managed to randomly form the first cell?

3) What is your reaction to the assertion that "the scientific community is often not so much scientific as it is a community"?

4) Do you believe Al Gore is correct about "global warming"? Do you believe he invented the internet?

Posted by: TB on March 28, 2007 07:09 PM
7. Richard Feynman kicks Hawkings butt any day of the week.
Oh, and some folks in Seattle are still a bit torqued off for being stood up after buying tickets to see Hawkings speak at the Paramount last year.
Lousy primadonna...

Posted by: Reporterward on March 28, 2007 07:56 PM
8. I read the interview in question thinking Hawking is a very smart person but his response to Rahner's question is plain dumb, as exposed above. When asked about global warming I tell people not only do I believe in global warming, I am so enlightened I believe in global cooling too. Which is not hard to do since the earth has been cooling and warming in cycles for 500 miilion yreas or so. If you want to 'stop global warming' so be it but start with earthquakes and tsunami's first...they are real killers.

Posted by: John on March 28, 2007 07:57 PM
9. I read the interview in question thinking Hawking is a very smart person but his response to Rahner's question is plain dumb, as exposed above. When asked about global warming I tell people not only do I believe in global warming, I am so enlightened I believe in global cooling too. Which is not hard to do since the earth has been cooling and warming in cycles for 500 million years or so. If you want to 'stop global warming' so be it but start with earthquakes and tsunami's first...they are real killers.

Posted by: John on March 28, 2007 07:58 PM
10. TB,

Repent of your heresy! How dare you question the High Priests!

Just drink some kool-aid and you'll feel much better.

Posted by: JCM on March 28, 2007 09:13 PM
11. "What, in your opinion, are the strongest arguments against string theory?"

That would be the same question like asking "What are the strongest arguments against the existence of gravity?" There are no arguments. If we had arguments against string theory, the theory would be falsified and we would have to try something else. Science uses the method of falsification and paradigm shifts to make progress.

Posted by: Cambridge dude on March 29, 2007 04:52 AM
12. I just find it oh-so amusing that science has been supposedly "under attack" only under Bush II. The real movement against science began in universities in the late '80s and '90s by left-wing faculty who were enchanted by post-modernism. "Different ways of knowing" they'd call it. Recall the Alan Sokal "Social Text" hoax happened in the '90s. I remember getting into all sorts of arguments online with "PoMos" (either actual or faux) about the primacy of science for generating empirical knowledge.

Roger Pielke recently responded to a silly Chait article on the stupid "Republican War on Science" meme. DEfinitely worth a read.

Posted by: Frank Black on March 29, 2007 08:46 AM
13. Steven Hawking is a politician-celebrity-pundit. He gave up being a real scientist in 1968. And most of his most cherished notions in astrophysics have been challenged or rebuked.

He's a businessman and obviously speaks the language to keep his popularity. No grudges, but I really would not care to hear his opinions on "science".

As far as the Times - feh...it's a cartoon newpaper.

Posted by: John Bailo on March 29, 2007 09:49 AM
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