State lawmakers appear on the verge of dumping the math and science sections of the 10th-grade Washington Assessment of Student Learning (WASL), and replacing them with a very different kind of test.
The idea is to do something about the fact that so few students pass the math and science sections. But the proposed remedy is generating a lot of concern because it could mean big changes in what students are expected to learn, and how they're tested.
(The Wall Street Journal found a parallel for this retreat in one of the best TV shows for sober policy analysis, The Simpsons. All right, I was mostly joking about the Simpsons. But not entirely. The Simpson monorail episode, for instance, should have been enough, by itself, to persuade Seattle that a monorail was not a practical solution to traffic problems.)
This does not sound like a vote of confidence in the WASL. But what do you think about the WASL? And do you have any experiences that you would like to share with us?
(I am not expressing my own opinion on this subject, because I do not have one. In general, I favor standardized tests, because you can not improve the performance of schools or individual students if you don't measure what they are learning. But I also have some idea of just how difficult it is to construct good standardized tests, and so I would not be surprised to learn that the WASL is not a very good test.
I may do an analysis of the WASL some time, but it is unlikely, because of the time it would
require, at least a week of work, and possibly more.)
Posted by Jim Miller at March 26, 2007
02:25 PM | Email This
What I like about the math WASL is what it is testing. It's not like your standard multiple guess questions, it actually poses everyday problems and requires the students to show how they would go about finding a solution to a problem. It is my understanding that it isn't meant to measure the students knowledge as much is it is to measure a thinking process. And believe me, one thing we need out of our students is some more rational and logical thinking.
One of the clear indicators of success on the 10th grade WASL is that students who successfully take algebra as 8th graders will pass it. More effort should be made to that effect and I understand the State Board of Education is looking into getting students ready to take algebra earlier.
I do believe the legislature is running scared. If those who failed the math portion continue to take it this year and next, they will likely find less than 20% fail rate based just on our current education. That would be about the same as our drop-out rates were a couple decades ago.
I don't believe colleges should look at the WASL math scores...I'd compare it this way, we want out school to work or school to technical college students to pass the WASL math, but we want our school to four-year college students to pass the WASL and the AP tests.
Posted by: Doug on March 26, 2007 02:41 PMI told this to a high school math teacher and he had a cow.
Apparently, there is quite a demand that the US go back to teaching the old-fashioned way- by sweat, work and lots of memorization.
His philosophy, like mine, is that the ones who want to learn will learn and those that don't won't. So, why worry about the 'no child left behind' dumbing down this creates in our culture?
Just teach the basics and forget the funny stuff. I don't see how a reasonable student can flunk the WASL in the 10th grade when they are testing 8th grade math. This is utterly inconceivable.
Posted by: swatter on March 26, 2007 03:07 PMThe rest of your statements are just silly. Of course you have to memorize basic math facts, but the principle behind borrowing isn't "funny stuff" -- every kid should understand that. And are you saying the schools shouldn't try to make learning fun and interesting? Isn't motivation important for everyone -- kids and adults?
Posted by: Bruce on March 26, 2007 03:20 PMHilarious!
On the other hand, I have to say, "who cares". The more dumb people there are, the more money I can make and the easier it is to make it.
"It's a competitive world." -- Depeche Mode
The legislature is not going to drop the math WASL beause it's a bad test. They're going to drop it because they would rather hand out meaningless diplomas than admit that a lot of graduates of their high-schools (particularly the poor & brown ones, but even quite a few rich & white ones) can't actually do high-school-level math.
Posted by: David Wright on March 26, 2007 03:26 PMShe was talking about the WASL to a math teacher that was observing her class. The teacher told my wife that she's getting kids in junior high that don't know their times tables. Or any of the basics.
Education in this state is so horribly broken as to defy description. The WASL is just one symptom of it.
Posted by: Steve in Queen Anne on March 26, 2007 03:30 PMI'm not sure whether we should change the graduation threshold near-term, but in the long term I favor improving math education. And most of the steps toward that end -- smaller classes, more tutors, more-qualified teachers, better materials, better technology, etc. -- cost money.
I think it's unfortunate that many schools spend so much effort on the WASL, but that's a natural consequence of the challenges.
A principal I respect has told me that she thinks the WASL is a good test but the results come too slowly and not in a useful form.
Posted by: Bruce on March 26, 2007 03:33 PMThis is where Bruce misundeerstands what swatter said. It isn't that she shouldn't know long division or borrowing (and thanks for letting me know the term), it is that the schools are teaching the kids a goofy system that they may or may not figure out by the time they are done.
The wife and I are shocked she is at a 3.8-4.0 grade point but she doesn't know her basics. I guess we should just let her be and figure the educational system knows more than us?
Back in the 60s one of my relatives was a junior high math teacher. It was he that used the philosophy that those that do do and those that don't don't. He said he used to put those that don't or won't in a corner of the room; they had an understanding- he wouldn't try to teach them but they wouldn't cut up and disrupt his teaching. And the funny thing- when the kids got older, they said they respected him more than any of the other teachers.
Posted by: swatter on March 26, 2007 03:44 PMOf course, the legislature will do anything to protect the teachers...it surely can't be their fault!
Posted by: drw on March 26, 2007 03:46 PMYou do find pockets of excellent teachers, and some public schools in upscale neighborhoods, with high parent involvement, etc. that do well. But the underlying premise of catering to the least common denominator, and allowing Liberal curriculum experiments like "New Math", has long since diverted the system from the expectation of hard work, and rigorous basic education.
Lastly, a cousin is in the 10th grade here in Tacoma. She's working on the WASL and took a few sections of it a week or two ago. I asked her how she did, and she said that she would not know the results for months. I was shocked. Again, an example of the inefficiency of government. What good are aged metrics? Why, in today's computer age aren't the results available almost immediately, when there's ample time to start remedial work for those who need it, before the fall even further behind their peers?
The WASL is a canary in the coal mine, and a poor one at that, but it is marginally better than nothing at all. Republicans should seize on this and many other issues to show why Democrats have failed this state.
Posted by: Jeff B. on March 26, 2007 03:54 PMI mean really, wasn't the WASL invented to get Washington out of the national standards tests so we could graduate every child without leaving anyone behind? I mean, what is so important about math or science anyway?
Posted by: MJC on March 26, 2007 04:42 PMAdding tutors and reducing class size won't solve the problem. Maybe schools should have the one person in the building who took college math to teach focused classes, rather than require all teachers to teach all elementary school subjects.
Posted by: janet s on March 26, 2007 04:43 PMI find it an embarrassment that we have to spend millions for remedial education classes in our colleges to get our students to the level they are supposed to have attained BEFORE they graduated from high school.
Posted by: Hinton on March 26, 2007 04:54 PM"Of course, the legislature will do anything to protect the teachers...it surely can't be their fault!"
You are right on. The teachers have become a large political PAC and their donations hepled to put the democrats in power!
Good place to check this out is on the Evergreen Freedom Foundation web site and review the court case EFF has against the teacher union. Now the legislature is posed to wipe out current laws to beat a Supreme Court decision against the unions. Talk about paying off debts!
Union thugs are running the schools and they care less about our students. WASL was designed to test if teachers were teaching the kids. It now looks like the legislature cares less as well.
1) Kids NOW know how to put a condom on a banana!
2) Heather has TWO MOMMIES!
3) Al Gore invented the INTERNET!
4) There ARE no winners or losers, your all the best! Just so long as you feel good!
5) Republicans are EVIL!
6) Democrats CARE!
7) Standards don't count, just wait and they'll discontinue the test!
8) The state knows more about what's best for you than your parents!
9) Free speech is GREAT as long as it's PC!
And the list goes on....
Be sure to thank a teacher the next time you see one!
Posted by: Paul O' The East on March 26, 2007 05:10 PMAfter you've found the answers, if you still think your school is doing something wrong, by all means tell the principal, and us.
Posted by: Bruce on March 26, 2007 05:13 PMIMO the teachers' union does not want an accurate measurement of the students' academic knowledge.
This way they avoid accountability.
Posted by: Jack Burton on March 26, 2007 05:25 PMThis has been deemed too hard, so now the kids have to learn and use a "simpler" algorithm. In my example you would add 5 to 35 to make 40, subtract 40 from 72 (getting 32) and then add the 5 back in to get 37. This might work, but it is a trick; its an algorithm that isn't related to a basic math principle (60 + 12 can be substituted for 72) and where it isn't clear what you would do if, for example you were subtracting 382,359 from 493,470.
People like swatter and me are simply arguing that the method we were taught works better because it is fundamentally logical, it works easily in all cases, and it requires only memorization of the combinations of single digit subtractions where the number being subtracted is smaller than the other number from which that number is being subtracted.
If you can't fully understand this, I would suggest you think about it for awhile and stop blindly trusting the school boards, the NEA and the teachers unions, who, I think, have agendas that don't necessarily hold as the highest priority teaching math in the most logical and effective manner.
Sincerely, srogers, an Aeronautical Engineer (among other things).
Posted by: srogers on March 26, 2007 05:42 PMThat 'new math' that they are teaching really does a very good job in the long run on teaching the kids how to go about solving math problems, it's problem is the deficiency in facts. It's very important for the school districts to supplement it heavily with the facts, the end result is some big gains in academic achievement. Most districts haven't figured that out yet, though.
Posted by: Doug on March 26, 2007 06:38 PMIn the "Teacher's Reference Manual for Grades 4-6," it says on page 120:
"The authors of Everyday Mathematics do not believe it is worth the time and effort to fully develop highly efficient paper-and-pencil algorithms for all possible whole number, fraction, and decimal division problems. Mastery of the intricacies of such algorithms is a huge undertaking, one that experience tells us is doomed to failure for many students. It is simply counter-productive to invest many hours of precious class time on such algorithms. The mathematical payoff is not worth the cost, particularly because quotients can be found quickly and accurately with a calculator."
Additionally, I have monitored Jr Hi WASLs and itwas clear that they don't test math and science as much as ability to write clearly in English.
Posted by: Ann in Issaquah on March 26, 2007 07:41 PMSometimes they might teach a technique like that as an alternative method for computing in one's head, especially with a problem like 83-29. I think that's a useful tool in the real world, and it also aids understanding. But I'd be surprised if that were the primary method that a school was teaching for subtraction.
Posted by: Bruce on March 26, 2007 08:30 PMScience is taught differently in every district. Some put biology in 9th grade, others are putting physics first. So, what should WASL concentrate on? Mercer Island was doing a "survey" of science in 9th grade in order to teach to the WASL. I suspect all it did was waste a year of education.
History isn't included in the tests because it requires knowledge of dates and events. Too bad. Our students need to understand history now more than ever.
Posted by: janet s on March 26, 2007 08:43 PMInteresting example. I subtracted the thousands, getting 111. Then I subtracted the right 3 places, getting 111. So it's 111,111. If you had said 493,359 - 382,470, I would have got 111 for the thousands and -111 for the units, then borrowed a thousand to figure 1000-111=889, which results in 110,889. Useful skill? Parlor trick? Hard to say...
Posted by: Bruce on March 26, 2007 08:47 PMI'm not sure what "25% higher" means (I am guessing it means 25% more pass), nor higher than what (public school students?), but in any case the comparison means little. Private schools choose what students get to attend. So what's your point?
Posted by: Bruce on March 26, 2007 08:56 PMControl the schools and you will soon control the nation.
Posted by: Jericho on March 26, 2007 09:04 PMHi, Shalimar! I don't know how these tests are scored. I initially was under the impression that if students failed to explain their thought processes in "writing", then they received lower scores. However, I read elsewhere that kids who correctly use diagrams or mathematical symbols to show their work also receive credit. I think that ideally this is how it is supposed to work. However, a test scorer may fail to recognize a novel approach to solving a problem as valid, especially if the final answer is wrong or if the student makes logical leaps. I have noticed that some students who are adept at math will leave out steps they see as trivial, figuring they should be obvious to the instructor/grader. This type of test would present a problem for students with those behaviors. For them to receive credit, the scorer would have to be able to make the leap himself.
Conversely, I think a student who is good at writing may be able to convince a scorer that his approach is sensible - especially if the scorer is a little shaky himself or if the question is ambiguous. I had read an article (quite a long while ago, though) which said that NCS Pearson had a hard time finding enough qualified people to score tests, and that they had lowered their screening criteria. I would think that differences in the backgrounds of scorers could have some effect on the outcome of test scores, even though these scorers all use the same grading rubric. Perhaps tests are graded by more than one person, and then the scores are averaged? I don't know how they do it! However, I still think it is funny when people claim these kinds of tests (because they look at the "thought process" and not just the answer) are less biased or error prone than traditional multi-choice tests graded by machines. All tests have their limitations.
If these Marxist/Fascist/Anarchist/Puppeteers do ever take over the nation one thing is for sure the may soon be faced with a not so apathetic populace that at least knows how to spell war and is not afraid to do it.
Posted by: Jericho on March 26, 2007 09:09 PMStupid is as a nation does.
Gee I wonder who is singing on American Idiot?
Posted by: Jericho on March 26, 2007 09:22 PM"Considered" by whom? While the WASL can't possibly test for all types of genius, someone who can't articulate a response to a WASL question would be pretty non-functional in many settings in higher education and work, which is presumably what the WASL is testing for.
Posted by: Bruce on March 26, 2007 09:49 PM2. I agree with Shalimar.
3. Watch what is happening in Ohio, the teacher's union has sued to end charter schools. If that is successful, then there is little hope of reforming public schools. Plan B is then a huge scholarship fund drive to get as many kids out of public school as possible
4. I hope I never get points deducted for misspelling words. If I don't have spell check available, then it is probably some form of learning disability for which I require medication or a nice glass of wine.
Posted by: WVH on March 26, 2007 09:53 PMThe public school curriculum in this state is a disgrace. Too many years have been wasted on "self esteem" instead of teaching. Heaven forbid we expect the teachers to actually teach. My kids did have a few quality teachers, but they either retired or left the public system.
My son was bored stiff and my daughter had a math teacher who made up problems that "looked good". The lady wasn't really concerned with the fact most of her made up problem sets could not be solved. She told me the "process" was the main focus. What a bunch of horse dooky!!
We need to give parents the freedom to pull their kids from the public schools via vouchers or some other rebate scheme. The "education" my kids received was not worth the tax dollars the district claimed to spend on each student. I was not able to afford private schools, so I did what I could to counteract the scholastic silliness and I put both kids in Running Start.
For those of you who think the public schools are doing ok, the end result of a Seattle Schools education is the equivalent of buying a car and only having it run 4-5 days each month. Only a government subsidized business could get away with such a poor "sucessful product" rate.
Posted by: Burdabee on March 26, 2007 09:56 PMThat's the leading principle of some people. But it's not the leading principle -- or even mentioned -- in the Constitution (at least as interpreted by the Supreme Court, which I know some people consider part of the vast left-wing conspiracy) and it's not what most American people want.
"Control the schools and you will soon control the nation."
Yikes!
Posted by: Bruce on March 26, 2007 09:57 PMCaveats: I don't know if the scale was adjusted during that period -- the article doesn't say, so if it's a good article, that means the scores are comparable. But the "college-bound" population has broadened over this time, making the improvement all the more impressive.
We have a long way to go, but before anyone claims to know the reason for poor scores (e.g., "we took God out of the schools"), get your facts right.
Glad we're back to the laundry list of stuff we disagree on. Poor education results are a combination of many different factors.
1. Every population of kids is different and
requires solutions directed toward that
population of kids. One size edcuation
doesn't work.
2. For some kids, school days and school terms
will have to be longer.
3. More money is not necessarily the answer,
there needs to be an examination of how
the money is spent and whether it is spent
effectively.
4. There is a colloration in academic achievement
between the background of the teacher and
the results of the teacher. Teachers who have
grounded knowledge in the subject areas they
teach, have better results.
5. This is a theoretical issue, do teachers
want to be true professionals with some
autonomy over their work or do they want to
be unionized and highly regulated?
Now for my mantra, whether you chose to sing along or not. The current instituitional structure
is broken and no amount of money is going to fix it. Look at New Jersey, I guess we all know where the money leaks to there. Low-income children are poorly served in the current structure and they will only get further behind.
1. The WASL is simply a test.
2. The problem is that children are not being
sufficiently educated to pass the test.
3. The question is whether given the current
institutional structure, children will be
sufficiently educated to pass any rigorous
test whether it is called WASL, Donald Duck,
or Really Tough Test.
Connecting all the dots, can the current insitutional structure sufficiently prepare children to perform well in a rigorous demonstration of competence of basic skills, whether WASL or some other instrument of measurement?
Posted by: WVH on March 27, 2007 12:14 AM2. Of course.
3. That may be your question. My question is what changes will improve education; some changes would make things worse. And "basic skills" (a subjective term), while important, are not the only goal.
Posted by: Bruce on March 27, 2007 12:52 AMThe Legislature has defined basic education, hence basic skills. I suppose the next step is to dumb this down to, let us help you mark your ballots.
From the RCW:
RCW 28A.150.210
Basic Education Act -- Goal.
The goal of the Basic Education Act for the schools of the state of Washington set forth in this chapter shall be to provide students with the opportunity to become responsible citizens, to contribute to their own economic well-being and to that of their families and communities, and to enjoy productive and satisfying lives. To these ends, the goals of each school district, with the involvement of parents and community members, shall be to provide opportunities for all students to develop the knowledge and skills essential to:
(1) Read with comprehension, write with skill, and communicate effectively and responsibly in a variety of ways and settings;
(2) Know and apply the core concepts and principles of mathematics; social, physical, and life sciences; civics and history; geography; arts; and health and fitness;
(3) Think analytically, logically, and creatively, and to integrate experience and knowledge to form reasoned judgments and solve problems; and
(4) Understand the importance of work and how performance, effort, and decisions directly affect future career and educational opportunities.
http://search.leg.wa.gov/pub/textsearch/ViewRoot.asp?Action=Html&Item=37&X=327013236&p=1
[1993 c 336 § 101; (1992 c 141 § 501 repealed by 1993 c 336 § 1203); 1977 ex.s. c 359 § 2. Formerly RCW 28A.58.752.]
Posted by: WVH on March 27, 2007 01:32 AMThis blog is a good place to disseminate info and let others in the education field know they have a lot of support. The solution will have to come from them.
Jericho, good question on why they are in public school. For a good answer, it would take a lot of writing and explanation. In hindsight, maybe a private school would be better.
Bruce, thanks for keeping the discussion going. Frankly, I was surprised to see so many parents agreeing with my brother and myself. Yes, it was the where's the math group I was referring to way up above.
Posted by: swatter on March 27, 2007 09:26 AMMost states have some kind of aptitude test, and states that really know what they're doing have tied funding to the performance on these tests. Maybe it's time for Washington education policymakers to make some visits to other states and figure it out.
Posted by: Palouse on March 27, 2007 01:31 PM
Later however, he came up with his own system, similar to the "trick" you mentioned above. Our other son came up with a fun one involving negative numbers that I haven't seen anyone else use anywhere - but it works!
Those of us who have kids who sit for the WASL know what a lousy test it is. My high school freshman boy is sitting for the WASL, and was required to write an expository essay that explained to an older person the latest fashion trends or fads. He has exactly zero interest in fashion and literally does not notice what other kids are wearing, but his high school graduation hinges on his ability to write an essay about the latest and greatest whatevers. (Yet another example of gender bias in education to boot.)
I didn't hear Kirby's show, but if private schools only outscore public schools by 25%, I'd be wanting my tuition money back. Private schools don't take children with profound disabilities, probably many don't take children with learning disabilities of any kind, and by definition they don't take children from homes where the parents don't care about education. A comparison between public school and private school scores is comparing apples to oranges.
The WASL was never intended to be a graduation requirement, and using it as one puts the consequences for poor school performance on the backs of kids who are absolutely powerless to affect change in their school administration, staffing and curriculum.
Posted by: ThreeDimen on March 28, 2007 08:51 AMBoth make valid points. There should be some measure of performance standards, whether it is the WASL or some other measure is open to debate.
There is beginning to be a body of research about public schools pre-unionization. Preliminary results question the positive impact of teacher unionization on eduation achievement in children. There should be a debate about how results of measurement instruments should be used, particularly if children are not receiving a basic education as defined by the RCW. There is a law suit in NJ, a state with a high per pupil expenditure by a group of parents who have children in failing schools. It is interesting that the union here, as do all unions, even in dying manufacturing segments continually request more dollars to be directly paid to their membership. Of course, there is a portion for schools. The question is what portion of requested dollors is directly related to producing higher education achievement for the students. Unions, whether education, manufacturing, or public sector are there to support their members and will continually sue or strike for incremental wage increases even if it makes the sector or industry uncompetitive and leads to the demise of the industry.