January 17, 2007
Democrats Unveil State Income Tax Proposal
Washington state Democratic legislators have unveiled a two-bill package to establish a state income tax. SJR 8209 calls for a public vote on a state constitutional amendment to allow it; 60 percent required. SB 5150 specifies the rates of the proposed new tax, by income and filing status. Page Four shows that for all three categories of filers, the tax would range from 2.2% in the lowest income sector, to - in the middle and upper sectors - a modest upfront charge plus either 3.5% or 6% beyond certain levels. Republican legislators aren't amused. In either public votes or after special committee proposals, state income tax proposals here have repeatedly fallen flat. Yet that's what would ultimately be required to feed the obese state budget recently carted over to the legislature by Gov. Christine Gregoire. Upside: with Dems very much in charge, perhaps a damaging public vote could occur. That would certainly hotwire the '08 gubernatorial contest. Speaking of which, Dino: in, or out?
Posted by Matt Rosenberg at January 17, 2007
09:57 AM | Email This
1. Why the need for an income tax when we have this massive surplus along with a rainy day fund?
2. Right Said Fred, I think they are just trying to emulate Michigan (another liberal state). After all, Michigan only has a 10% unemployment rate and a growing state deficit from businesses rapidly moving away.
3. Could anyone have doubted this was coming?
Perhaps, having given the reins to the liberals statewide, nationally and generally across the country, it's time for American voters to painfully get exactly what they chose with their 'protest votes'.
I can only hope Washington, states across the country and the country can survive; that there will be enough pieces left to pick up after the damage they do becomes painful reality to the non-thinkers who gave them power.
Hope is elusive given the goings on in Olympia and DC.
4. I would be surprised if this even made it to a vote of the people. It would likely go down in flames and provide some kind of momentum for Republicans.
5. Wait a second, this is a little disingenuous. These bills were dropped by Rosa Franklin, one of the most liberal members of her caucus and NOT a member of leadership (by any stretch of the imagination). And I see that, at least for now, she's got only one co-sponsor on the resolution--Sen. Kohl-Welles, another loony leftist who's not in leadership. It would be more correct to say that "ONE marginal Democratic legislator unveiled a two-bill package."
Democratic leaders will not unilaterally push an income tax in our lifetimes.
6. SJR 8209 calls for a public vote on a state constitutional amendment to allow it; 60 percent required.
No. Chance.
7. Rosa Franklin is indeed a member of the D caucus leadership - President Pro Tempore. And has been for some time now.
8. Which means she takes the gavel when Brad Owen isn't on the floor, jimg. Which is, like, almost never.
It's an honorary position. Trust me: Other than being a member of the Rules Committee (along with, like, 17,000 other people), Rosa has no formal power to set the Democrats' agenda. She doesn't even chair any committees. Rosa's a nice lady, but she's a non-entity in the Senate.
9. If our state GOP leadership wasn't dumber than a box of hammers, they'd be on TV with commercials tommorow AM painting dems with a big brush as tax happy politicians.
(Can't depend on doing this with PR in this state. This is one where you'd really have to bury the knife and give it a few twists.)
this could be a real opportunity for the GOP to really paint the dems into a corner fast. Too bad our leadership in this state has shown all the aggressiveness of a teaparty at a girlscout meeting.
10. is it for the children?
11. Wasn't it McIntyre from Seattle that was removed as Chair of the Finance Committee because he was going to push this ? I believe Chopp moved him out to avoid having it passed through committee to the floor for a vote (that was the story anyway).
12. like CA, we need a mechanism to pay for health care, etc for ALL children & whomever else--including illegal aliens (and the throngs they bring in as birthrights/relatives).
of course, any additional income taxes will be strictly performance-audited, so we'll get good value for our tax dollar--er--um--"investments."
(sucking sound towards Nevada)
13. I think this will help bite into the Dem majority, once people get a whiff of this. The dems just can't help themselves.
14. DJ, You may be right about the leadership, but why was she even allowed to introduce this bill if the Dem's Leadership did not at least want to test the water to see if it would float. If the Dem's do not hear an outcry from the public, which would not surprise me seeing the lack of interest by most in this state when it comes to government(thank the public schools once again), I could very well see the Dem's moving forward with this bill thinking they can get it to pass.
15. Democrats, collectively, are dumber than a box of rocks.
Do they not realize the damage that a state income tax would cause?
The business environment is already shaky enough....
16. She's a senator, TrueSoldier, she can introduce any bill she wants to. Just like Sen. Murray can drop a bill to legalize gay marriage. It ain't goin' anywhere.
I mean, it's fair game, I suppose, to tell voters that Democrats favor gay marriage and an income tax. But if the Democratic leadership actually blocks these bills from even getting a committee hearing, I think voters will just think that the Republicans are desperate and out of ideas. Which, if Matt's post is any evidence, would be right.
17. ... if Democrats block it ... Republicans are desperate.
The epitome of lib logic! Anything bad is caused completely by Republicans.
18. You know, republicans are supposed to LIKE people voting on things....(that's why they PAY so many gatherers to get laws passed outside the democratic process)....so...if 60% want an income tax, wouldn't that be something all you righties would support?
19. Getting laws passed by the people is outside the democratic process.
This topic really makes the apex of lib logic float to the top!
20. Wow, Right said Fred, I'm a conservative, lifelong Republican. Just because I think Matt's wrong doesn't mean I'm on the other side.
Grow up, conservatives.
21. DJ - I was expressing the logic, which still holds. It appears from your response that you also think that it is lib logic, however absurd it may be.
22. This is what happens when socialists/progressives/liberals/communists get elected. Legalized theft of wage earners money. Thomas Jefferson would be very unhappy that his name is connected to the democratic party. Maybe its time to do something radical to these despots......and get back our Republic.
23. Got it, Fred. My bad. And you're right. It's pretty depressing.
24. Why is Boeing off the hook on not paying sales taxes on its sales?......could it be there are palms being greased?.....If they'ed have to pay sales ataxes like all other businesses, think of the money the state would have.
25. The regressive sales tax needs to be reduced, but I don't see anyone proposing that. Socialists steal wage earners' money through income taxes, conservatives steal wage earners' money through sales taxes. And, yes, an income tax will never fly, because the electorate is skewed toward higher incomes and prefers regressive taxes most every time.
26. Taxation without representation!!! Post the "Bill of Rights" that oughta light a fire under anyone who has never read them, though I doubt is readers of this blog are ignorant of them.
Many tanks,
Kosmas
27. Taxation without representation!!! Post the "Bill of Rights" that oughta light a fire under anyone who has never read them, though I doubt if readers of this blog are ignorant of them.
Many tanks,
Kosmas
28. "SB 5150 specifies the rates of the new tax". Hmmmm. Should read "specifies the INTRODUCTORY rates of the new tax", subject to repeated hikes just like cable or sattelite tv/Internet access/cell phone plans, etc. Lather, rinse and repeat.
29. I personally talked to two people from the Kitsap area that were running for office at the time, Applegate was one, and they both constantly touted the Democrats vision for "new revenue streams." I asked to have that explained and low and behold it was a state income tax in conjunction with a state sales tax. Also lowering the B&O on large companies and raising it on smaller companies.
30. Or in other words, how to completly throttle the economic viability of the state ....
31. @24, sellers don't pay sales tax, customers pay sales tax.
So are you suggesting that Boeing raise the price of their planes almost 10%? Good thinking. You must work for Airbus.
32. I think it rather odd that the Seattle Times, the Seattle PI, and the Spokesman Review have not said a word about this. Ok, so how long does everyone think they'll keep this little secret hidden???
33. Funny thing, the dems didn't dare say a collective word about this in October/November.
34. If the Democrats are successful in changing the constitution to allow for an Income Tax, what is to prevent them from allowing a County or City income tax as well? How NY of them to suggest that Ron Sims and Mayor Nickels be given a free hand to impose additional taxes. Gee do you think Ron might direct funding to ST and Nickels might want to bury a little extra funding on the waterfront?
35. This could be the wedge issue that the Republicans are looking for. So what are they going to do with it. Bobble it around like a hot potato or get assertive and jump on it ?
I forgot, what do Republicans in this state really stand for ?
36. Obi-Wan: I don't work for EADS.....In fact I don't and won' buy anything made in France. I just want to know why Boeing gets these breaks while this commie state government wants to tax my internet purchases. Which by the way will generate far less in taxes than requiring Boeing customers to pay yor state sales tax.
37. Allan, you ask a good question about sales of Boeing planes. I don't know the answer....does anyone posting here?
And I agree with your comment about this commie state government taxing internet sales.
The reason for my sarcastic comment @31 is that I've read many posts here from leftists who want more sales tax because "businesses pay sales tax" not realizing that it's the consumer that pays the tax.
38. LETS TAX COFFEE AND SHUT DOWN STARBUCKS ONCE AND FOR ALL!!!! NO COFFEE FOR YOU.
39. New York City has a tax surplus. Home owners will be receiving property tax refunds. Mayor Bloomberg has proposed lowering the city's portion of residential property taxes approximately 5% and eliminate sales tax on items such as clothes and shoes.
Oh, I forgot, that's Mayor Bloomberg with an (R)
40. Obi-Wan and Alan, Boeing customers probably do not pay sales on Boeing products for the same reason Oregon residents do not have to pay Washington sales tax on purchases made in this state.
41. 40. Obi-Wan and Alan, Boeing customers probably do not pay sales on Boeing products for the same reason Oregon residents do not have to pay Washington sales tax on purchases made in this state.
Or, because notwithstanding the final assembly location here in-state, the company isn't a Washington State business (any longer)?
Woo-hoo! I, a single person, would get to pay $3900/year (deductible on the 1040) to Washington State! Cool! I missed having to do that second tax form (CA, Form 540) each year -- and having to mail out two envelopes on April 15th! Of course, my accountant at the time didn't mind...LOL
42. Boeing is about the only product the Chinese buy from us. It has to do with trade deficit and things.
And also, with the regressive tax breaks we have, Boeing is quite correct in stating that they put more into the State coffers by a long shot than the demand on services they need.
That begs the question: why does Boeing get the breaks but us small guys don't? They don't even contribute money to campaigns as much as they used to.
Instead of taking the easy way out, why don't politicians work to make the environment good for all instead of monster companies like Boeing and Costco.
43. If anyone really likes this tax idea? Ask someone (say like me) who left Calif. They tax everything folks and the state still deosn't have enough money. Don't fall for this tax idea. Once they have outspent the income tax monies, they will come looking for other stuff to tax!
44. Yeah, just what we need. Like CA we'll end up with a 9% sales tax and a 9% income tax. Just what we need; more taxes so the queen can hand out favors to her friends, i.e., unions, government employees, and the political elite.
45. What I find scary, is that a state income tax could very well pass, and we all know the sales tax would also stay.
Proof? The 9cent gas tax passed. Then 1 year later, before a single project had begun voters were informed (surprise) that not nearly all the promised road projects were going to be funded. 25% to 30% would be dropped due to increased construction costs.
Has anyone heard which projects were dropped? Betcha they were the ones outside Puget Sound area, in those rural areas that actually believed the promises that if passed they would get a fair share.
Washington has developed a very naive voter population.
46. Wow. This new tax would literally wipe out my children's education fund and my charitable giving, and take out two months' worth of my credit card debt repayment.
But hey, that's OK, because with the Democrats in power, the government can pay for those things instead of me! While we're at it, why not just take ALL my money, and just pay for everything I might possibly need?
Idiots.
47. Apparently this bill would reduce the state sales tax to 3.5 percent, and would eliminate the state property tax. If the change is revenue-neutral (ha!), then at best, people who have relatively inexpensive homes, or who save their money, are the ones who get screwed, while wealthy people with little income (like many Democrats in Olympia) would make off like bandits.
48. pudge, 3.5% today means 9% in five years
49. This tax rate is about the equivalent of one take home check amount for bi-weekly workers. But I know it is hard for the R's to produce a simple commercial that would say that because they would worry about hurting a liberals feelings or be perceived of not being for the children. My children can go to heck but your children deserve my money I guess.
This is an incredible amount of money. As is the state budget that grew 30% under the queen (at that rate the budget will double about every 5 years)
Running some other rough numbers even with a cut in the Sales Tax rate it amounts to about a 50% tax raise.
I bet landlords will cut rents when the state property tax goes down as well.
50. swatter, no kidding. I am just laying the facts of the bill out there. :-)
Hogan: that seems about right. Two weeks' worth of my annual income is a lot of money. And you're right on about the kids. The R's really should run commercials showing families unable to save for college because of this tax hike.
51. There is also one easy way to raise more revenue for the government.....allow casinos to operate off reservations (equal protection under the law). That way, each community can decide if it wants a casino in its local. The state won't have to kiss indian butts to get revenue from the tribes. WA can use the same model that Nev uses....and gets the revenue direct. The gamblers of the state won't mind at all who gets the taxed profits.
52. the blog title is fitting for our WA legislators--"unveil" in this day/age & this state--
taxpayers now see a strap-on tax bomb belt under the veil. what an analogy! same "tolerant" result.
53. More hysteria from the nuts on the net. Get your facts straight. If the R's had the legislature you'd be appalled if someone on the left misrepresented the intentions of the R leadership. I know it's hard, but try to be consistent.
54. Don't be fooled into thinking an income tax will do anything but accelerate spending.
Here in NJ a "modest" 2% income tax was introduced in 1980 to "reduce" property taxes. Today we have the highest property taxes in the country, we now have a 9% income tax and a 7% sales tax.
Of course we also have the highest per capita spending of any state, a budget deficit, and massive debt.
What we do have is full indexed retirement at 55 for all teachers, police, and state workers; the highest paid teachers in the country, and the most expensive educational system in the country.
55. 54--wow--found it--The EU Light. I guess quality just costs more.
