Has that particular pope slipped your mind? Here's a refresher.
When he became Pope on March 11, 1513, Leo X rejoiced; he is reported to have said to his brother Giuliano, "Since God has given us the papacy, let us enjoy it." The Venetian ambassador who related this of him was not unbiased, nor was he in Rome at the time, nevertheless the phrase illustrates fairly the Pope's pleasure-loving nature and the lack of seriousness that characterized him. And enjoy he did, traveling around Rome at the head of a lavish parade featuring panthers, jesters, and Hanno, a white elephant.
"Under his pontificate, Christianity assumed a pagan character, which, passing from art into manners, gives to this epoch a strange complexion. Crimes for the moment disappeared, to give place to vices; but to charming vices, vices in good taste, such as those indulged in by Alcibiades and sung by Catullus." (Alexandre Dumas pére).[2]
Leo X was also lavish in charity: retirement homes, hospitals, convents, discharged soldiers, pilgrims, poor students, exiles, cripples, the sick, and the unfortunate of every description were generously remembered, and more than 6,000 ducats were annually distributed in alms.
Now I have no reason to believe the Gregoire herself indulges in "charming vices", but almost everything else in that sketch sounds all too familiar, the travel (Leo X would have loved, one suspects, jet travel.), the charity (with other people's money), and, above all, the extravagance.
And Leo X and Gregoire may share something else; like Pope Leo, Governor Gregoire apparently believes that God placed her in the office. Former state Democratic chairman Paul Berendt told us in December, 2004 that God had made Gregoire governor, and I have never heard Gregoire herself deny that claim.
It may spoil her enjoyment of the office, but Governor Gregoire should learn more about a famous contemporary of Pope Leo X, Martin Luther. Some historians think that Martin Luther, and eventually millions of other Protestants, were inspired to break from the Catholic church in part because of the Pope Leo's behavior. Perhaps there is a lesson in that for our extravagant governor.
Posted by Jim Miller at January 12, 2007 12:54 PM | Email ThisI am hard pressed to come up with an equivalent in consideration of his latest war/occupation plan, to go with the rest of his blunders.
We await your equivalent for Smirky "Mission Accomplished" McFlightsuit . . . .
Posted by: Jim on January 12, 2007 01:58 PMNever mind, John F'in Kerry in the NASA bunny suit -- looking like Ralphie in 1980s "A Christmas Story"
Posted by: FT on January 12, 2007 02:30 PMif you tried this analogy/blog posting/criticism/opinion with other religions of peace, a different outcome might blossom.
just a diversity and tolerance thought for today's society with linkage to past history. no more no less. no fatwah here.
Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on January 12, 2007 02:41 PM2006 & 2007
http://www.komotv.com/news/archive/4175401.html
The director of the state Gambling Commission, Rick Day, says it is unlikely that individual gamblers will be targeted for arrest. But he says agents have gone to homes in the past year to warn gamblers that their gambling was illegal.
It was a misdemeanor then. No one has been prosecuted in Washington for online gambling.
Day says his priorities are to go after operators based in Washington or national and international gambling promoters.
The bill making online gambling a felony passed unanimously in the state Senate with only five dissenting votes in the House. It was signed into law March 28th by Governor Gregoire.
The law does not apply to state run online horse racing. All other online gambling is now a class C felony, punishable by up to a five year prison term and a fine up to ten thousand dollars.
This legislative session will assure his place in 2008!
Posted by: GS on January 12, 2007 06:28 PMYou've got to be kidding me... pointing out that the Governor is acting like Pope Leo X makes one a bigot? Exactly how is that bigoted?
Posted by: Mike H on January 12, 2007 07:45 PMMy wish is that the people in this state will elect her opponent as Governor, who will restore justice that she has successfully corrupted as AG and now as Governor. Also, I hope for an honest election instead of what happened in 2004 - also that Ron Sims does us all a big favor and does not run for another term.
Posted by: KS on January 12, 2007 07:45 PMNot only does she remind me of that character, but that movie is downright haunting with dead voters, the cover-ups and crooked election.
It's like she rented the movie then melded her campaign from it.
Posted by: Marmstro on January 12, 2007 08:27 PMIf this were the only instance that one could categorize of mocking religion, then you know what-I would agree with you. According to the Oxford dictionary, a bigot is intolerant of others. Evangelicals have been called "cheap dates" and then there was the entire slant of the Christmas season. So, using the Oxford dictionary definition, there is a great case to be made that many posters here are intolerant of religion, especially Christianity and given any occasion, they will mock it. I suppose the beauty of blogging is that I am entitled to my observation.
Posted by: WVH on January 12, 2007 08:40 PMBut my question is, how is pointing out that Gregoire is acting like Leo X mocking religion and thus bigoted?
Posted by: Mike H on January 12, 2007 10:04 PMGregoire reminds me more of just another Puget Sound Marxist than a galavanting Pope.
I say let them run WA into the ground. It's far better that the average Joe witness, suffer and learn from the consequences of people like Gregoire.
Posted by: Jeff B. on January 12, 2007 10:40 PMWhy was the comparison used of the Governor and a religious figure especially when the contempt of the poster for both figures is so evident. My point is this is not a single isolated instance of holding religion particularly Christianity up to ridicule, it is part of a pattern and practice.
So, given the history of how religion, particularly Christianity is treated at this blog, in my opinion, and that of others, the posters could be considered bigoted. I say could be, because I don't know what is in their hearts and whether there is true hatred of Christians. If they can't be considered bigoted, I certainly would go with clueless.
"WVH might just be another alias for John McDonald which is an alias for someone else. McDonald has not commented in a while. Check IPs"
I am not an alias for anyone, you are free to check IPs. Are you masquerading as a secular progressive anti-religious bigot these days?
Posted by: WVH on January 12, 2007 10:53 PMWell, at least we can agree on one thing, neither of us wants a Goldy comment. I saw him on Robert Mak's show and he is a secular progressive bigot.
I don't know who John Mc Donald is, but no matter who people are posting on blogs, some people can make apt comments on a particular subject. Even a stopped clock can be right twice a day.
Posted by: WVH on January 12, 2007 11:19 PMJim may have said something unflattering (cheap date) in the past, but I simply cannot see this as taking a cheap shot at Catholic
Posted by: C. Oh on January 12, 2007 11:30 PMYou are entitled to your opinion. Paranoid, I am not, I disagree with you. In my opinion, which I am entitled to, it was a cheap shot, it was mocking. I guess we are not going to agree, so there it is. Because you don't agree with me, I'm not calling you tasteless and without class, even though you called me paranoid.
Posted by: WVH on January 13, 2007 12:05 AMcall me oversensitive, but any number of historic figures could have been used. any Jewish ones? Mormons? how about ones in Islam? too scared?
i would have avoided someone's religious heritage and picked a secular example. just one opin. here. free speech, but i dont have to like it.
"if stepping on toes, pick the toes carefully." (Jimmie's--not Aesop's--Fables)
Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on January 13, 2007 09:18 AMA cautionary tale, to all who indulge, on whatever side.
Posted by: RonK, Seattle on January 13, 2007 09:29 AMThere can be educated fools and I usually don't like to talk about my education, but I think I can go degree to degree with you and I have also traveled widely. Aren't you the poster that had an issue a couple of threads back when I suggested Libertarian might actually read the Bible he quotes and disparages. As I recall, your issue was whether the Koran should also be included in reading material. So, is your hillbilly comment directed from your religious perspective? Incidently, I do think people should read widely and they would find that the people of Appachlia have wonderful music and crafts. Me, I'm a local.
Posted by: WVH on January 13, 2007 10:18 AMThere was a serious point to the post, of course. Pope Leo X had great fun spending other people's money, and Governor Gregoire appears to be doing the same. And I see no reason to think that her spending spree will improve our public services significantly.
Now for a point of etiquette for commenter "Jim", who does not give his name, but is definitely not Jim Miller, the author of this post. It is simple courtesy to use a name -- or nickname -- that can not be confused with other people's names.
Posted by: Jim Miller on January 13, 2007 10:20 AM
Far be it for me to tell you how to do your job or your hobby. If the point of the post was to take on Berendt's stupid comment, then even though I am an independent, I could join you in that. In my opinion, your choice of comparisons is what is flawed. Even though you used a figure with many flaws, in my opinion, that particular selection was not the best to make a light hearted point. I happen to think the Reformation was great because it saved one of the major religions. The reason that I have spent more time than I really want to responding on this thread is as I have responded to Mike H. and Jeff B. there seems to be a history at this blog in the way Christianity is treated. Before C. Oh and Yossarian respond, this is my opinion. What we can agree on is that Berendt's remark shows that he is stuck on stupid.
Posted by: WVH on January 13, 2007 10:32 AMNo, my hillbilly comment was designed to make you angry. I love poking fun at the pompous, and on blogs I get to do it anonymously.
What fun!
Posted by: Yossarian on January 13, 2007 10:43 AMYou should go over to Goldy's blog and introduce yourself to Roger Rabbit. You and he would produce great blog fireworks which we all could enjoy.
Posted by: Yossarian on January 13, 2007 10:47 AMYou didn't answer the question about your religious perspective. Last thread which dealt with Somalia, there were two posters of a particular religious faith. When I disagreed with them and pointed out the plight of the Bantu, their defense was ridicule. I believe one called me paranoid. Now, are you Muslim and is the plan to ridicule all those that might disagree with you? I don't scare easily and you can count on me to take on Islamofacists. I will be happy to converse with those who are not Islamofacists.
Posted by: WVH on January 13, 2007 11:08 AMSuggesting that Miller could have made comparisons of other religions or leaders instead of Christianity, Catholicism or the Pope could be construed as bigotry or bias towards the suggested alternatives by anyone so desiring. Miller’s segue into The Reformation provides me with the message I perceive he was attempting to convey.
Posted by: Tyler Durden on January 13, 2007 12:26 PM1. You made my point by discussing by basing your argument on historical fact. My point is taken within the historical perspective of this blog it is part of a pattern and practice.
2. I suppose perspective is in the eye of the beholder which is why there is a diversity of opinion. Are you saying that this post does not drip with contempt for the Governor and is meant to drip with both sarcasm and contempt for her?
Then, does not the comparison to the Pope convey a parallel feeling?
There is never going to be a meeting of the minds on this. Defenders of Jim Miller will applaud his efforts at humor and those with a contrary view will say it is an excercise in poor taste. The twain isn't going to meet on this one.
Posted by: WVH on January 13, 2007 12:37 PMI think you're starting to try and mix oil and water with the analogy of contempt for Gregoire being a metaphor against religion. I can rant and rave about how I don't like the color lime-green. I really don't like it. If I see a '64 VW painted lime-green I may not like the color but I love those old Bugs and the color isn't going to change that.
The blog didn't make me think "Gregorie bad so Pope bad, religion bad, Christianity bad." I quickly thought it's time to post 95 Theses (or many more) on the door of the state capitol building even before I expanded the blog and read the Reformation referrence.
When I read the blog I didn't give much thought to the author's prior writings and still don't. But then again maybe I should have. But if I did that I might be prone to ask myself "Where's the broad-minded reasoning I usually see from WVH?"
Posted by: Tyler Durden on January 13, 2007 01:29 PMJust think about it. Regardless of Jim's supposed mocking of Catholicism, which do you think will do more harm to Christianity? Paul Berendth's claim (thus presenting him as a Christian) or Jim's comparison of Gregoire to a historical pope with ill reputation?
Posted by: C. Oh on January 13, 2007 01:46 PMNo appologies necessary, C. Oh. People are entitled to their opinions. You have the right to think that I am overly sensitive and I have the right to think as the kids say, this post was wrong, just wrong.
Posted by: WVH on January 13, 2007 03:44 PM