Sound Politics: "Seattle's Jewish Problem"

December 22, 2006

"Seattle's Jewish Problem"

Eli Sanders has the cover story in this week's The Stranger.

I really liked the essay. It's wonderfully written and a touching bit of family and local history. I wouldn't say that Seattle has a Jewish problem and I haven't personally experienced the odd comments and awkwardness that Eli relates. But we are a smaller and less-well understood minority here than other places I've lived in.

In spite of our modest numbers we managed to make a mark on the local blogosphere: Matt and me here, Eli and Josh at The Stranger, Goldstein, Postman. Go figure.

Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at December 22, 2006 10:27 AM | Email This

Comments

1. Notwithstanding the delightful essay- if I were an American Jew, I would arm myself. The far left will come for them sooner or later.

Posted by: John425 on December 22, 2006 10:41 AM

2. I don't get this stuff about cutting the ends off of pee-pees. It's unnecessary and barbaric.

Posted by: Libertarian on December 22, 2006 10:48 AM

3. Libertarian - It is amusing that the ad at the end of the essay is for a piercing establishment - "Slave to the Needle".

Do you suppose if Abraham were alive today G-d would command him to to put a nipple ring or tongue stud on Isaac instead of circumcising him?

Posted by: Steve on December 22, 2006 10:58 AM

4. You missed the news that process helps prevent the spread of Aids. http://www.circumcision.org/hiv.htm
http://www.circumcision.org/
There are some positive effects. Older studies said that it also helped prevent other problems. But I am not a doctor.

Posted by: David Anfinrud on December 22, 2006 11:00 AM

5. Goldstien is covering this as well. The DIFFERENCE is that you and the bloggers here don't USE the facts of your heritage/religion only when it's convenient whereas he and his fans do.

It's no different than major liberal politicians (Gregoire, Cantwell, Murray, Kerry, Pelosi, Kennedy) claiming to be good Christians, especially Catholics, yet accept abortion lobby money and promote abortion/anti-life agendas.

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskold on December 22, 2006 11:08 AM

6. If an adult man wants to have his foreshine cut off, then fine: he's an adult capable of making decisions about his body.

Why don't we let these infant males reach maturity beore we place slice-and-dice with their wee-wees? Let THEM decide if they want a bob-job or not! Let them have the freedom to choose.

Posted by: Libertarian on December 22, 2006 11:29 AM

7. I am not trying to be disrespectful and I hope that you don't take offense. What is Jewish? Is it based on:
a. background, whether you have a Jewish Mother?
b. Identity, you identify with the group or religion?
c. religious observance?

From my admittedly unscientific observations, it seems that many secular humanists have a Jewish background. How closely being Jewish is part of their identity or how closely they observe the Jewish religon is difficult for me to determine.
So, the question is, what does it mean to be Jewish?
I really am not trying to be disrespectful.

Posted by: WVH on December 22, 2006 11:31 AM

8. WVH,

I think there's a lot of self-loathing going on with the secular crowd.

Posted by: Dalton Bucklew on December 22, 2006 11:35 AM

9. That's a good question WVH. I never thought of "Jewish" as a race, but somehow it is lumped in there with racial arguments. If you are Jewish are you a member of a different race than a regular caucasian? I guess I always viewed it as another religion that people follow or they don't, which is contrary to what I have heard about being born to a Jewish mother. I don't see how being born to a Jewish mother makes you Jewish, any more than being born to a Christian mother makes you Christian.

Posted by: Palouse on December 22, 2006 12:03 PM

10. I read that in Israel one of the tests for being Jewish is a Jewish mother. I don't know if this true, I just read it somewhere.

Posted by: WVH on December 22, 2006 12:07 PM

11. Libertarian, you don't understand much of anything, do you? Beginning with what circumcision involves. Do you really enjoy flaunting your ignorance that way?

For information on the health benefits of circumcision, read NONE OF THESE DISEASES, by S. I. McMillen, M.D.

But those are only a side benefit. The reason for Jews to practice circumcision is because God told them to. As alien as the idea may be to somebody like you, who doesn't believe in any kind of a Supreme Being who must be obeyed, obedience to God isn't negotiable.

Posted by: sro on December 22, 2006 12:36 PM

12. sro,

Don't show YOUR ignorance! Google "circumcision" and read some of the stuff that comes up against the practice.

Why don't we just stop this barbaric practice and let adult males decide if they want to be circumcised? What's the matter? Afraid your religious beliefs are being called into question?

BTW, I understand a lot. I have a BS, a masters and several other credentials.

Posted by: Libertarian on December 22, 2006 01:25 PM

13. Libertarian,

You may HAVE a BS and a Masters, but that only means you are a Master of BS.

Posted by: Arturo on December 22, 2006 01:39 PM

14. Arturo,

Nobody asked you, pal.

So, what are YOU a master of? Baiting?

Posted by: Libertarian on December 22, 2006 01:43 PM

15. Libertarian
We don't stop this practice deemed "barberic" under currently fashionable thought because G-d told us we had to do it.

Posted by: krm on December 22, 2006 01:43 PM

16. Typical leftie. I have to ask for permission to speak (permission that would never be given by the racist lefty types like "libertarian"). Is that because of my name, Lib? You don't like people that don't agree with you?

And who asked you to join this conversation?

Posted by: Arturo on December 22, 2006 01:51 PM

17. krm,

"G-d told us we had to do it." Well, isn't THAT special! What's wrong with letting a kid grow up and decide for himself if he wants to be circumcised?

For everyone else, if some one tells you that "God told them to" do something, run for the hills! Anyone that professes that God speaks directly to him or her is not playing with a full deck or has an alternative agenda that doesn't have much to do with God or faith.

Arturo,

If you want to talk to lefties, try Horsesass.org. There are lots of them there, and they mostly dislike everything I say. I'm sure they'd "love" you, though.

Also, I don't know a thing about you or your race, Arturo, because names here are just temporary labels to facilitate the dialogue. You don't know anything about my race either, so let's drop the "racist" name-calling.

Merry Christmas ans Happy Yule to all!

Posted by: Libertarian on December 22, 2006 02:29 PM

18. There was recently some research done that suggested circumcision might slow the spread of HIV in some men. Wouldn't it be more effective to simply not sex with multiple partners? A little common sense and self control is what's needed rather than penile surgery.

Posted by: Silverbow on December 22, 2006 02:34 PM

19. Now, now, let's not bicker during the Christmas/Hanukah/Kwanza/Solstice/Festivus/Ramadan/Diwali season.

Posted by: Steve on December 22, 2006 02:39 PM

20. Re: post #7
WVH,
There are 2 ways of being Jewish.
By having a mother who is Jewish
and
by conversion, which is not simply saying I want to considered a Jew but accepting upon oneself the responsibilities and commandments that a Jew is responsible to observe in addition to the 7 commandments that everyone is to observe.

Posted by: seePea on December 22, 2006 03:00 PM

21. #7

In my view, it's not really a race, but a tribe. Even if you don't practice the religion, being Jewish can sometimes be written all over your face so it's hard to separate the two in your own mind and in the public's mind.

Posted by: me on December 22, 2006 03:00 PM

22. being Jewish can sometimes be written all over your face

Really? How so?

I have a good friend who is Jewish and you wouldn't know it by looking at him.

Posted by: Palouse on December 22, 2006 03:06 PM

23. Libertarian is an example of the smugness I hate about this silly town. Circumcision is one of the foundations of Judaism; it is a mark of the covenant between God and his chosen people. To blow it off as Lib has done is amazingly rude. It is none of Lib's business at all if Jews circumcise their male babies.

Another attitude I hate in this town is a soft anti-Semitism that just hangs in the air. Having lunch with a (former) friend one day and he, well-educated in finance at Seattle U, tells me that the Jews control all the money in the country. His family is standard run-of-the-mill Seattle liberals who would never in a million years think they are racist but here he is, parroting Hitler. Amazing.

Posted by: Carol on December 22, 2006 03:18 PM

24. Seattle is a place of bigotry born of unfamiliarity. I say this as a Jew from the deep South who has lived all over this country.

Unlike the town where I grew up, in Seattle I have never been accused of personal responsibility for the death of Jesus Christ. I think that's really more related to the dearth of charismatic (in the religious sense) Christians here.

The casual "soft" bigotry I notice here is a bit different - more like what I see in the more ethnically homogenous nations of Europe.

I really think numbers matter. The most idiotic bigoted things come out of otherwise smart people's mouths here - but the bigotry reflects the local population. I don't hear casual slurs about Chinese or Japanese people in Seattle, probably because of the large size of these communities locally (well, not so large after WWII in the case of the Japanese) and a historical legacy of actual oppression and discrimination of which people are conscious.

I guess smaller ethnic or religious minority populations never go through this cycle.

Posted by: boggle on December 22, 2006 03:40 PM

25. Carol: Anti-semitism is never soft, no matter what form it takes. Neither is any form of racism.

If people of Jewish faith wish to observe their faith by circumcising male babies, that's their business. No one else's. I don't hear many rantings about ear, nasal, lip, tongue, navel, nipple, penile and vaginal piercings,I suspect mostly by progressives, so leave the religious practice of circumcision alone, already!

As for Seattle Libs, I should think they'd be too busy getting Starbucks'logo tatooed on their fannies to care much!

Posted by: katomar on December 22, 2006 03:51 PM

26. Thank you seePea for enlightening me about the definition of being Jewish.

Some of the dumbest, most irritating people I know have multiple degrees. Some of the smartest I know and have met, have no degree. What distinguished the two groups was a willingness to learn and an abundance of common sense. I have sparred with Libertarian, whatever on another thread. In my mind, a truly educated person may not agree with another tradition, but they can be
respectful. I am familar with circumcision from reading the New Testament. I understand from the Apostle Paul that it is very important to the Jewish religion and tradition. I can respect the tradition.

Posted by: WVH on December 22, 2006 05:25 PM

27. What I can do without is our slavest devotion to propping up the state of Israel as a matter of US foreign policy. The balance that should exist does not. Our current fiasco in the Middle East is very much because of our unbalanced policies for Israel. This needs to change.

Posted by: mark on December 22, 2006 07:15 PM

28. Libertarian states "I have a BS, a masters and several other credentials."

The disclaimer: I don't know you, so this may not be the case with you. But...College degrees mean one is educated, but they do not necessarily make one smart.

I've never been impressed by those who feel the need to wave their "credentials" around. They prove nothing, other than you invested a lot of time and money for a piece of paper.

Posted by: malamute on December 22, 2006 07:23 PM

29. Stefan--
I thought KLOWNstein was a JINO???
You & Matt might want to show the KLOWNster what a Synagogue is.....what the Old Testament is.....and that a Rabbi is not merely a Rabbit without a 't".

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on December 22, 2006 07:40 PM

30. 25 & 28 sum it up for me--I like the Jewish people & their traditions. I've more in common with them than any other religion. & have come to understand them more as i mature & compare them to others around them & through historical events & historical contexts.

anyway, Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays to them & to all out there in SP Land!

...even liberals. (hey--G-d made slugs and slime mold for some purpose too.)

Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on December 22, 2006 08:12 PM

31. I don't know what this proves in race or tribalsim but some time back I read an article in Commentary about a group in Aftica with Jewish genetic sequences. I think it is interesting and here is the a link that I googled up. Actually, here is the google page if your interested.

Posted by: tom scott on December 22, 2006 08:31 PM

32. Dang it. I've waited two and a half years for a circumcision debate to pop up here at Sound Politics and now it's already over...
You know, we need a third party in this country to take up this cause.

Posted by: Reporterward on December 23, 2006 12:01 AM

33. Ragnar Danneskold faults "major liberal politicians (Gregoire, Cantwell, Murray, Kerry, Pelosi, Kennedy) claiming to be good Christians, especially Catholics, yet accept abortion lobby money and promote abortion/anti-life agendas."

I know many Christians who believe their faith is wholly consistent with their liberal politics. And while I am far from an expert (I'm not a Christian), the little I know about the teachings of their religion's founder inclines me to agree with them.

In any case, Merry Christmas!

Posted by: Bruce on December 24, 2006 09:31 AM

34. Bruce: Of course, not being a Christian and knowing "a little" about it, I suppose you have not heard of the founding document for Christianity, the Ten Commandments. Those are the rules that God handed down, that his son Christ reinforced, and that were never open to interpretation or moral equivalency. No gray areas there. That is the foundation of Christianity, and I think the Conservative view follows that foundation a lot closer than the Liberal view.

Posted by: katomar on December 24, 2006 02:15 PM

35. Have to agree with Katomar. One of the biggest laughs I had was a discussion with a non-Christian, I won't tell you their background around the time of the election of Pope Benedict. The person said that he should not be elected because he was conservative, didn't believe in abortion, didn't believe in stem cell research, and didn't want women priests. Well, duh. It is always a little dangerous to tell other religions what they should or shouldn't be doing. It is interesting that most secular humanists want to make all religions secular humanism. in my opinion, the basis for this is they really don't like is "evangelicals" or followers of Christ. They want us all to be followers of me, myself, and I.

Posted by: WVH on December 24, 2006 09:00 PM

36. The biggest Seattle Jewish problem is that too many Sound Politics editors are anti-Christian bigots. They try mightly to control their bigotry but it just keeps leaking out that they think of Christians simply as "Cheap Dates" to attract at election time and forget about at all other times. "Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh"

Posted by: John McDonald on December 25, 2006 06:44 AM

37. The reason I asked the question in #7
is that I have observed that many individuals who may have had a religious background at one time, one of posters here who commented on circumcision has stated that they were a former Catholic for example, are the most hostile to religion of any type. Quite often, the mainstream observers of a faith, unless they belong to a sect, are more tolerant of other faiths. In my observations, individuals who are not comfortable with self often have difficulty with religious expression as well. The "cheap date evangelical" comment was particularly bigoted because an evangelical is in its literal meaning simply a follower of Christ. The meaning then is derogatory to all Christians. I don't know how to catagorize the comment's maker which is why I asked the question in #7 and continue to ask what and who is Jewish? Is the maker of the comment speaking only for himself or is this feeling more widespread?

Posted by: WVH on December 25, 2006 08:48 AM

38. The deep dark secret of "tolerant" Seattle is that it is a bastion of anti-semitism in the Northwest.

Posted by: pbj on December 25, 2006 10:25 PM

39. While I agree with the medical establishment in that secular circumcision is pointless, I don't share Libertarian's belief that religious circumcision is the devil (or that it is at all - it's not a big deal either way, which is why I'm all for it being the kid's preference when they get old enough). But if he believes the practice to be barbaric, that's what he believes - I don't see a reason to adjust that based on whether the rationale is religious or not. If he's not Jewish, obviously his personal belief is that it is an unnecessary thing - just like how it's necessary to Jews because of THEIR religious beliefs. He's not necessarily anti-semitic beyond not being Jewish.

I don't agree, although obviously if someone grows up and out of the religion, they are kind of stuck with that decision - I personally know a few who aren't happy with it (and I hardly go fishing for icky personal information like that).

Posted by: Alcon Nighthawk on December 26, 2006 03:54 AM

40. I just love seeing Lefties squirm as they attempt to deny their anti-Semitism by saying they aren't against Jews- they are just against Israel.

Posted by: John425 on December 26, 2006 08:12 AM

41. John425: So right you are, just like when they definitely "Support The Troops" but are against the war the troops are fighting for all of us.

Posted by: katomar on December 26, 2006 09:22 PM

42. Google this word and then think about ritual male circumcision.

Metzitzah b'peh

Posted by: Check This out on December 28, 2006 07:16 PM

43. Can someone please explain the Orthox Jewish custom of the Rabbi sucking the blood off the boy's penis? Does the Bible really say this is necessary. I loved Seattle because it was free of this kind of religious bulls*&t. I hope we can keep hyper-religious types of all stripes from forcing the rest of us to cowtow to their superstitions.

read this and weep!
http://simplyappalling.blogspot.com/2006/12/metzitzah-bpeh-to-suck-or-not-to-suck.html

Posted by: Atheist huh on December 28, 2006 07:37 PM

44. Hi Atheist,

The bible says nothing about this.

Posted by: John McDonald on December 28, 2006 10:53 PM

45. If the Bible does not demand Rabbis suck the blood of a baby's cock, then why is this disgusting practice allowed in the United States?

Over 2000 babies a year in the United States undergo this blood sucking superstitious bulls*#t.

If a religious cult was allowing grown men to suck baby boy cocks, American's would be outraged. So why are these fundamentalist Rabbis allowed to keep doing this?

Metzitzah-bpeh is superstitious nonsense from the dark ages that should be outlawed.

http://simplyappalling.blogspot.com/2006/12/metzitzah-bpeh-to-suck-or-not-to-suck.html

Posted by: Atheist on December 29, 2006 12:24 PM