1. It seems libraries today are more of a monument to the local politicians who extract the funding for them than to serve the reading public.

Try the Puyallup library. You have to carry a flashlight to read the titles of the books on the shelves it is so dark in there. Great romantic lighting for an evening resturant but lousy if the idea is to actually read something.

Posted by: Huey on November 29, 2006 05:58 PM

2. Hecatomb? Where do people come up with such words?

But it is fitting. We have a lot of those things in this region.

Posted by: Rep. Toby Nixon on November 29, 2006 06:32 PM

3. "Hecatomb? Where do people come up with such words?"

I learned it reading the Iliad.

Posted by: Stefan Sharkansky on November 29, 2006 06:46 PM

4. "I learned it reading the Iliad."

In public school? ;-)

Posted by: Rep. Toby Nixon on November 29, 2006 06:51 PM

5. Hecatomb:
1.(in ancient Greece and Rome) a public sacrifice of 100 oxen to the gods.
2.any great slaughter: the hecatombs of modern wars.

You stumped me on that one; I had to look it up.
I agree with you on this one.

Posted by: me on November 29, 2006 07:36 PM

6. jeez--there goes Stefan--

whipping out references from his "100 greatest books" a-la Mortimer Adler (God rest his soul) from U. of Chgo. (sidebar--how many WA teachers have read them all?)

dang those classically-educated liberal studies & educations of yore. now, too racist. overly mega-western. bigoted. obviously non-tolerant. non-diverse. overly-caucasion...one-sided...

ignorant of the creations of OTHER multi-culti histories/contributions that elsewise impacted our lives like....um...um...um...um.....

Communist regimes? Socialists? Snoop Dogg? Madonna? Michael Moore? "peaceful"-teaching radical imams? Global-warming-pee-pants-uncomfortable-wet-truth guys? Kofi Annon? Europe today with its own cultual/historical meltdown and amnesia of its great past?

i've always loved libraries--still do--however, my practical side now says with the internet, everyone (most) have one at their fingertips--so--why the added taxes/annexations for more? and for more hard facilities, when most of us have them in our homes? anyone out there diff opinion?

Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on November 29, 2006 08:59 PM

7. Downtown libraries have always played a key role in systems across America. In Seattle, over 500,000 people spend their day downtown as part of the job force. Countless more pass through. The downtown library is used by the homeless. And by law firms. And by workers wanting a book or a break. One of the best things about libraries is that they are used by all Americans regardless of income level. And by and large the downtown library is a place of mutual respect.

Just because your life doesn't take you downtown doesn't mean mine doesn't. I spend more of my waking hours downtown than at home. Our Central Library is an inspiring building by any stretch of the imagination. It is also spacious and plenty big enough. And I think that if you actually look in to it you will find that $165 million was a relatively tight budget for the space they got.

I don't get it. The library is a big hit with all kinds of people, but it is a waste of money?

Posted by: library lover on November 29, 2006 09:07 PM

8. You may be able to find The Iliad in almost any public library, but rare books often can only be found in large, central libraries. I study at the UW, so I have one of the best library systems in the world at my disposal, but for those unable to check things out at Suzzallo the Central Library has some things that neighborhood libraries never would.

Posted by: Travis Thomas on November 29, 2006 09:16 PM

9. Heck, between 1500 million on 3 miles of track (and that's an early estimate, not the final bill) only 165 million for a fully built library, heck it looks cheap.

and/or
Take 165,000,000 and divide by say 330 bums who are there every day. We could have bought each of them a $500k condo...

Posted by: righton on November 29, 2006 09:33 PM

10. The downtown library is used by the homeless. And by law firms. And by workers wanting a book or a break.

KIRO TV did a report this past February entitled "Team 7 Investigators Find Crimes, Threats At Central Library." The following tabulation reflects "code of conduct violations" compiled by KIRO. I wonder how many of those vilotaions were committed by law firms and workers?

Today's article indicates there's a staff of eleven security personnel at the library. Doubtful they're there to control the law firms and workers.

"Records show 491 "code of conduct violations" serious enough to get a patron kicked out. Since June of 2004, documents show: 22 incidents of sexual misconduct or public nudity; 60 threats of violence, including loud, racially-motivated or obscene rants; 76 cases of harassment, disruptive behavior, leering, stalking. Guards documented seven cases of physical assault and at least 13 illegal drug incidents."

Posted by: Tyler Durden on November 29, 2006 09:35 PM

11. Try www.haplr-index.com for a thorough analysis of the American public library systems. Seattle and King County fail to make the Top 10 for the population category of 500,000+ and have for years lagged behind Columbus, Denver, Johnson County, Kansas, and many others. It boils down to too much labor and admin costs; not enough $$$ spent on books and materials. The downtown 'hecatomb' was millions over-budget and 8 months late; yet NYC architect wannabies had orgasms galore upon its opening. The homeless/transient/panhandling folks got their own high tech free wired/wireless internet cafe with 50,000 square feet of wasted space and the librarians got their separate penthouse. And we all pay for such mediocrity.

Posted by: Alan Deright on November 29, 2006 09:48 PM

12. Toby -- I've only read Homer as an adult, not in school. But I am a product of public schools from Kindergarten through my B.A. I was fortunate to have excellent public K-12 schools in my home town and and excellent public university. I first read Greek myths in reading class in 2nd or 3rd grade. That inspired my interest in the subject which led me to read Homer on my own.

"Library lover" (Chris Arkills) -- I'm not saying the downtown library is "waste of money", only that the same (or less) money could have been used to achieve the stated goals of "Libraries for all" a lot more effectively than what we've got. Unfortunately, the distinction between "waste" and "not as effective as could be" is often lost on Democrat legislators and their staff ;)

Posted by: Stefan Sharkansky on November 29, 2006 10:03 PM

13. I love the library, use it all the time. Just like this blog it is the new public square, the library is quite a mix of folks that don't often
mix. Lots of metrowhatevers come to admire the building, there are great programs, and places to write and hang out. Most of the time the homeless mind their own business. It is quite a mix. I don't know if it could have been built for less, though.

Posted by: WVH on November 29, 2006 10:32 PM

14. Sorry if I got a bit carried away. I write as someone who grew up as the son of a librarian in Spokane for my entire life. I have seen the power of libraries to touch all walks of society.

I would have never supported spending money on a downtown library without an equally strong program in the neighborhoods. But many of the new neighborhood libraries are wonderfully done. I simply believe that a good system has both and that for many of us a downtown library is important.

Posted by: library lover on November 29, 2006 10:33 PM

15. The Seattle Public Library collection consists of (mostly) junk, plus the New York Times Best Seller list, plus some DVDs. Tax supported libraries were popular at a time when many families could not afford books but that is not the case now. Seattle could do quite well with half the public libraries. And yes, the U of W library is the region's best.
(Read Homer in grade school (Catholic) --

Posted by: Lew on November 29, 2006 10:42 PM

16. Tyler@10, is your point that the library causes those crimes? Don't you think those criminals would otherwise commit those crimes somewhere else?

Posted by: Bruce on November 29, 2006 10:51 PM

17. Bruce: Your logic is mind boggling. You seem to be suggesting we welcome criminals and their criminal activities in one comfortable, central location in order to keep them from committing crimes elsewhere? How about welcoming them to jail?

Posted by: katomar on November 30, 2006 06:48 AM

18. I voted against our recent library levy. I couldn't see spending $20/month of my money for a facility I don't and won't use. It is located about 15 miles from my house.

Nothing against libraries- that is- except the cost of building a huge facility so far away from me. Even when the library was close to home (walking distance) I seldom went there.

That's a lot of money for just a little benefit.

I have more fun at the half-price bookstore. Or Borders.

Posted by: swatter on November 30, 2006 07:48 AM

19. Bruce: katomar took the words out of my, er, away from my keyboard.

One other option: How about welcoming a few of those suppressed souls to your dwelling?

Posted by: Tyler Durden on November 30, 2006 10:21 AM

20. Lew at #15 writes:
And yes, the U of W library is the region's best.

Yes, it's also partially subsidized by two of the richest men on earth. On a separate note, I think the Central Library looks very nice, I've used it on several occasions. It also seems to inspire a lot of great photographs. I agree with WVH at 13, library's are the new public squares, this new library is also a lot nicer than the old 70's library we used to have.

Posted by: Cato on November 30, 2006 10:43 AM

21. "I write as someone who grew up as the son of a librarian in Spokane for my entire life."

I know the feeling. My parents owned the local Kwiki Mart and I think Seattle's ban on malt liquor is mean spirited.

Posted by: Apu Jr. on November 30, 2006 11:40 AM

22. I would have thought a new central library would be useful, but the fools at the library board wasted at least $20 million on adopting the design of that appalling eyesore dowtown. Where's the use of throwing away my money?

Posted by: JB on November 30, 2006 01:43 PM

23. swatter 18--
i agree but diff reasons.

mine is used heavily & i use it too, not often with internet now. i like that it's used. at least the cost is being amortized and utilized well.

what i DID NOT like is yet another independent taxing district pinching me and I cant hold some elected guy accountable for the costs or results.

it's just another non-person automatic-taxer on yor real estate tax bill that never goes away. no oversight or audits. that's my beef.

if worthwhile, i'll never know that fact from reading a (non-existant) performance audit. tax me, but tell me. automatic taxing district power is scary. no representation that Founding Fathers wanted. have you ever seen any tax go DOWN?

Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on November 30, 2006 10:16 PM

24. Downtown Libray = Experience Book Project

and i hope the giant bees don't come back to claim their hive

best part of the library... the coffee cart training Fare Start baristas

Posted by: KC former Seattlite on December 2, 2006 01:38 PM

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