November 13, 2006
A failed school district should dissolve itself, now

Yesterday's Seattle Times editorial: "A failed school board should resign, now". Yes, Seattle's school board is a collection of useless kooks who should all be forced out. But the district's problems are deeper than the school board, which doesn't really have much control over finances, the bureaucracy or the unionized workforce. The budget debacles, the board's pandering to labor, the poor academic performance, the decline in enrollment -- those are all inevitable consequences of being a government monopoly (Imagine what would happen if coffee shops were run like public schools).

The sensible solution is to dissolve the Seattle School District, let independent non-profits run individual schools and compete with each other for business, and give parents means-tested scholarships to send their kids to the school of their choice. That won't happen any time soon. But neither will meaningful improvements to Seattle public schools.

Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at November 13, 2006 10:17 AM | Email This
Comments
1. Desolve Seattle public schools? Personally I think that you expect to much form public education today. What do you want for $13800 a year per student?

Posted by: G Jiggy on November 13, 2006 10:44 AM
2. What would the Soup Nazi say....
"NO EDUCATION FOR YOU TODAY!!!"

Posted by: Pacific Grove Phlash on November 13, 2006 10:53 AM
3. G Jiggy. I can't believe you would ask such a question! Isn't it obvious? Higher salary, better medical care, include the entire family, no co-pays, shorter hours, fewer kids to teach (AKA smaller class sizes), better working conditions, and a fully paid sabbatical every five years.

Jeeesh isn't it obvious?

Oh yeah, the kids come in somewhere after this.

Posted by: Right said Fred on November 13, 2006 10:53 AM
4. Same old same old -- when I was in school in the 50's and 60's the Seattle school district was one of the very best in the country -- then came the liberal - Federal Gov'munt induced busing - with all the LIBERAL Bolshevik strings and CHAINS attached -- "our way or else" stuff - wink wink --the management burocracy balloned and the union whiners got into high gear and the levies and special levies kept coming down the pike -- schools were closed and consolidated -- many properties were sold and the schools torn down and/or remodeled into comercial properties -- check out the histories of Wallingford and Jefferson elementary schools -- others have been turned into 'ethnocentric centers' - duh - WHAT THE F'''??? -- all this in the name of diversity brought to you by the Feds --- all of which fueled and/or accelerated the white (and others) flight to the 'burbs - leaving behind those who couldn't afford to flee or whose kids were about outta the 'SYSTEM' and the liberal aholes that were massaging their pathetic little egos on the diversity and progressiveness of it all -- the only winners have been the bolshevics -- WAKE UP TURKEYS

Posted by: Bill on November 13, 2006 10:58 AM
5. Howsyoudoin

The prez of the national teachers union once said, "When the students start paying dues...I will start caring about them."

I' am laying 100 to 1 we will never live to see that day.

Forgetaboutit

Posted by: Joey bag of doughnuts on November 13, 2006 11:00 AM
6. We pay high property taxes in Sammamish, yet still pay for an excellent private school here that charges nowhere NEAR 13 grand a year for a top notch education.

In fact, its not even 10 grand a year! (It's 690 per month til the 5th grade)

If you look at NYC,they pay one of the top per student fees in the country, and their public school system is also broken.

People in this country sure have no backbone for expecting more for their kids. But I have long agreed that Seattle Schools should be dissolved, along with Lake Washington and all the rest of them; if they were companies, they'd all be long gone by now.

Posted by: Lauri on November 13, 2006 11:00 AM
7. I believe that there should be competition in the education sector and that failing schools should be dissolved. The problem is not one of theory, plenty of education scholars believe that competiton is the only way to save public schools. The problem is political. Two many stakeholders in the education sector are only interested in protecting their own interests. These stakeholders have a disproportionate influence in the dem party. What will happen now is exactly nothing. The school board will continue to squabble. A study group will be convened, they will issue a report which will not be read and soon forgotten. Meanwhile, the parents needed to sustain a successful school system will flee in droves. I know that charter schools went down in flames twice, but given the current composition of the legislature, any change will come only by initiative. Even if there was the political will to have another politcal unit assume control, the politcal fighting to prevent the takeover would be so fierce, the pols would back away. The system is clearly broken, but I expect little change.

Posted by: WVH on November 13, 2006 11:14 AM
8. WVH,

As evidenced by allowing (requiring) students to take the WASL five times in order to pass. Now us taxpayers get to keep paying additionally for extra funds to teach the kids how to take that stupid test that measures NOTHING.

Head school honcho, Terry Bergeson, wont give up on her failed WASL no matter what, yet voter keep returning her to office?

Clearly, our "leaders" were educated in the public school sector - they are as dumb as the kids they are turning out!

Posted by: Lauri on November 13, 2006 11:26 AM
9. most brave and capable teachers would welcome a lot of changes like vouchers and performance pay. the lazy, losers, bureaucrats and incompetents hiding out in academia do not want TRUE change.

however, the juggernaut of the system can not be disassembled immediately. it will take a bunch of spearate successes like trial schools in many districts.

and Lauri's right at 8--voters keep making the same dicisions to return these people. just rewarding incompetence. it's OUR fault.

Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on November 13, 2006 11:33 AM
10. I don't know much about the school district, but I did know a person who had run for the school board in one of the past elections.

Talk about a nonsense way of electing board members. You have to get the typical endorsements of all the special interest groups in Seattle. Same old BS.

Then, in of the last elections, there was a clique of board members who politicked for each other even when everyone knew a bunch of them were clowns. You know, the buddy system. What a mess!!

Posted by: swatter on November 13, 2006 11:34 AM
11. Sell the whole thing (land and all) to the nuns and let them educate the kids. Far better than current or any other alternatives

Posted by: righton on November 13, 2006 11:37 AM
12. GJiggy

Seattle Prep is one of the best:

http://www.seaprep.org/

and their tuition is only $9450:

http://www.seaprep.org/admissions/brochurefall04.pdf

and tuition assistance is available.

The Seattle Prep curriculum and academic rigor is known to prepare any child admitted for just about any university of their choice.

Posted by: Michael in Seattle on November 13, 2006 11:42 AM
13. Bravo, Stefan. Well said.

Posted by: Marsha Michaelis on November 13, 2006 11:45 AM
14. The blame for the shape of our schools, like all issues in our city, county, and state can be squarely placed on the liberals that have run our government for years.

Oh, wait, it was that car tab initiative. That's to blame for everything!

Screw Eyman. We need to elect more democrats!

Posted by: Eric on November 13, 2006 12:00 PM
15. I would like to know how many of the current school board members the newspaper endorsed.

Posted by: Bull Maxon on November 13, 2006 12:20 PM
16. Let's try some really radical.

Give the class room teacher the $13K per student in their class, they then contract our for support services out of the money. Parents could put their kids in any teachers class, or pull them at any time and the money follows.

Bad teachers lose students and the money.

Posted by: JCM on November 13, 2006 12:23 PM
17. Let's do something REAL radical and give the parent a 10K voucher and let them pick from any accredited school. Public, private, religious, whatever. Competition is a time and time again proven cure for badly broken monopolies.

How about getting really, REALLY radical and giving each tax payer their damn money back and let parents pay for the children they conceive? Many are doing this now with private school while still paying for public. Why does a person who has no kids have to pay for a person who has 6 or 7 kids? Why does a person who has the politically correct number of kids (2) have to pay for the extra 4 or 5 that other couples feel they are entitled?

Posted by: G Jiggy on November 13, 2006 12:42 PM
18. G Jiggy: "Why does a person who has no kids have to pay for a person who has 6 or 7 kids?"

Look at it this way: the childless person won't have anybody to take care of them in their retirement. They depend more than those with children on the larger society to support them (whether from Social Security, or the rate of return on their private pension). A better-educated workforce is likely to be more productive and can produce more for its retirees.

Posted by: Stefan Sharkansky on November 13, 2006 12:49 PM
19. G Jiggy:

I telecommute, therefore, I should not have to pay for roads.

I drive my own car, therefore, I should not have to pay for bus service.

I don't support the war, so I should not have to pay taxes to support the military.

I'm young and in good health, so I really don't need to be paying for county emergency medical services.

get it?

Posted by: Eric on November 13, 2006 12:52 PM
20. G Jiggy: "Why does a person who has no kids have to pay for a person who has 6 or 7 kids?"

And just to add to what Stefan posted, those 6 or 7 kids will most likely pay more in taxes in their lifetimes than the cost to the state of their education, which is a net benefit to everyone.

Posted by: Palouse on November 13, 2006 12:56 PM
21. I would support charter schools before state-wide vouchers. Good schools are in limited supply, so the vouchers would just load lots of demand on already full schools. Charter schools, on the other hand, would have to figure out how to attract customers, and provide a good product.

This is somewhat selfish - the high school my children attend is an excellent public school. Families are already doing whatever they can to get in - lying about their address, renting apartments in the neighborhood, buying utility bills for a month, etc.

If we had vouchers, there would no longer be any guarantee of a neighborhood school. Part of the strength of the school is the parent community. That's why Seattle fell apart (well, one of the reasons.) Busing destroyed the natural community and discouraged parental involvement. I don't want to get squeezed out of my local school because there are so many worthless schools surrounding us. Those schools need incentive to turn themselves around.

Posted by: Janet S on November 13, 2006 12:59 PM
22. G Jiggy "Why does a person who has the politically correct number of kids (2) have to pay for the extra 4 or 5 that other couples feel they are entitled?"

Where on earth does this garbage come from (other than Mao's little red book)? Are you proposing the government assigns the "correct" number of children to which couples are entitled? Would you also advocate cutting off welfare for any kids above the allocated number?

Posted by: Right said Fred on November 13, 2006 01:04 PM
23. One party rule is this state. You can be sure the Dems will run this region into the ground. Let them have at it. Maybe someday after enough damage, WA citizens will wake up see what Dem leadership hath wrought.

Until then, it's full steam ahead into the iceberg.

Posted by: Jeff B. on November 13, 2006 01:07 PM
24. J. Jiggy,
Richard Rumbold pretty well sums up the difference between your philosophy and mine when he said: "I never could believe that Providence had sent a few men into the world, ready booted and spurred to ride, and millions ready saddled and bridled to be ridden." These words were uttered in the 1800s yet are timeless.


Posted by: JDH on November 13, 2006 01:38 PM
25. "Would you also advocate cutting off welfare for any kids above the allocated number?" Actually it goes far beyond that. "Google" China's One Child policy if you have the stomach for evil on a monumental scale.

Posted by: JDH on November 13, 2006 01:43 PM
26. am i also the only one wondering why school board members are not paid or rated on a scale by successes/failures? too removed from schools or no power in hire-fire? how about principals? how about LOSING your pension & all retirement bene's if you (like recently) covered up abuse by your teachers/staff?

Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on November 13, 2006 02:05 PM
27. How much is tuition at a private institution? You know, the ones that nearly always produce better educated students that go on to college in large numbers? The ones that every parent wishes they had the cash for?

I'm betting it is less that what is currently set aside per student in our public schools...

Posted by: H Moul on November 13, 2006 02:07 PM
28. Janet #21-

I think you'd find that universal vouchers would produce exactly what you say that charter schools provide-schools having to provide excellent programs and doing what they had to do to attract and keep students, and their money. Granted, when such a system was first started, good schools would get overloaded, but other quality schools would appear quite quickly. Profit is a great motivator.

Such a system would also lead to higher pay for teachers, at least for good ones, as schools competed for their services. Now, bad teachers would be SOL, as would the union, since good teachers (or good workers of any sort) don't really need unions.

I think you'd also see a wider variety of different programs, including things that are now politically impossible, like year round school (summer vacation is a relic of an agriculture based economy, and something most of those countries who regularly make us look bad in the education arena have done away with.)

And you don't need geography to make for success-inducing 'parent communities'. All you need are parents who are committed to their kids' educational success.

Posted by: Heartless Libertarian on November 13, 2006 02:11 PM
29. It's not about the cost to educate a child and it never was. It is about the easy money (read earnings of the perpetually fleeced taxpayer) the fatcat union monopoly enjoys.

Why is a Microsoft monopoly bad but a government monopoly good?

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskold on November 13, 2006 02:17 PM
30. $13k per student? That's more than my apartment rent(on the Eastside, no less) costs me in a year!

Posted by: Vexorg on November 13, 2006 02:31 PM
31. $13k per student? That's more than my apartment rent(on the Eastside, no less) costs me in a year!

Posted by: Vexorg on November 13, 2006 02:33 PM
32. I think all this complaining about union featherbedding and lack of accountability by teachers on the public dime is so much sour grapes.

Our young people are simply being taught -- nay, recruited! -- to join the unions and share in the wealth of organized mediocrity.

If that's not education, what is? A bunch of hard math stuff and fancy-pants literature that none of our youthful I-podleians will ever think about again after WASL, anyway?

As long as we have illegal immigrants from Mexico to do our manual labor, and legal immigrants from India to do our engineeering, America is pretty much free to kick back, get fat, and enjoy the ride.

Who neads skools?

Posted by: Rey Smith on November 13, 2006 02:56 PM
33. It is a fallacy to believe that vouchers and private schools will pay more for better teachers. In the end they will pay more for more valuable teachers. Even pathetic teachers that have no business being in the classroom will make themselves more valuable by offering to teach larger classes in poorer areas of the city. A great teacher who wishes to teach just one subject and only a few students might have some value because they are a great teacher but likely won't be paid any more than an average teacher willing to do more work in an area where there is less supply of teachers.

NCLB, if allowed to run it's course, will break up failing schools. School boards get taken over by the state, administration gets out and the state can remove any teacher they want to remove. The only problem is that we need the correct people in the state's education bureaucracy to make that happen in a productive way.

As for public education, we all have benefited from it one way or another. Washington is in the bottom third of all states for per-pupil spending although we are in the top-third in per-capita income. Research has shown that education plays an important role in future income, maybe when we compare to the rest of the states we are getting more for our dollars.

Granted, it's not enough since those dollars are directed where the Unions want them to go right now. However, Republicans will NEVER take control of the state houses if they publicly run on a platform of dumping public education or minimalizing it. They need to run on a platform of improving public education.

Posted by: Doug on November 13, 2006 04:46 PM
34. Commenter above talked about how the parent needs to stay involved. I believed that, too, until...

my kids are not learning even the basics of math- add, subtract, multiply, divide. I ask the six grader to do long division and I get this look that only a mother could love.

Posted by: swatter on November 13, 2006 04:49 PM
35. When looking at numbers, like tuition, or cost per student from the state, it is really important to have an apple to apple comparison. If a private school has a fund raising drive used to help with scholarships or to pay for buildings, that money should be included in a comparison of total student costs in the public system. Also keep in mind some students are a lot costlier to educate than others. Private schools may or may not have these students.

To a certain extent, there is competition in a public school system already. Open enrollment does result in some schools having more money than others because the state funds allocation per student. However, the big problem is schools are not infinitely scalable. Recreating the physical infrastructure of a high school isn't cheap, it is a $150 - 200 MM investment, and that's assuming the land is already owned by the school entity.

Ultimately the citizens of Seattle have to decide what they want, then elect a board that will do what they want.

Vouchers etc get to be very complicated, but one perspective comes from a cousin in Hawaii, where there are extensive native Hawaiian charter schools established in recent years, using state funding. According to my cousin, these schools are turning into propaganda machines, indoctrinating the students about injustices in Hawaii's incorporation into the US. Again this is one person's perspective, but the point is vouchers might or might not lead to outcomes we want.

Posted by: Stuart Jenner on November 13, 2006 04:54 PM
36. Survival of the Fittest
Monday, November 13, 2006 9:32 AM
" Patrick Hoeffel of Colorado Springs sends me this note:

If the Education establishment is so deeply committed to the principle of Natural Selection, then let them demonstrate it by supporting School Choice initiatives in every state. The fittest schools will survive, and the fittest school models will reproduce and perpetuate themselves.

Charles Darwin wrote, "In the struggle for survival, the fittest win out at the expense of their rivals because they succeed in adapting themselves best to their environment."

I couldn't have said it better myself. "

TOO FUNNY!

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskold on November 13, 2006 05:20 PM
37. For those of you who are thinking of home schooling, please check out wava.org, Steilacoom's online program: public education, so you are still using some of your tax dollars. If you have the opportunity to home school, the curriculum wava offers is EXCELLENT!!!

Posted by: Peggy U on November 13, 2006 06:14 PM
38. H Moul @27: To answer your cost question: We have had as many as 3 kids in private (Christian) school since 1989. Annual tuition for 10 month school year in 1989 was around $4k per child. Current 7th grader's tuition is $6.2k. If we weren't paying taxes for desks our kids aren't occupying, it would be a deal. Our oldest is a 4.0 university student, the next oldest a 4.0 senior. Youngest is on track to be the next Bill Gates. We live simply--no cruises, timeshares, fancy cars, etc., but know we made the right decision.

Posted by: Organization Man on November 13, 2006 06:34 PM
39. #35
1. Why is a school board necessary?
2. I agree there is competition for students that
can afford various options. There is no
competition for poor children and children
whose parents don't know how to "work" the
system. In my research for my doctorate
a couple of years ago, I came across a study
of school choice and the choices made by
members of Congress for their own kids. A
significant number of the members of Congress
including members of caucuses of color sent
their children to private schools. A majority
of those against vouchers and charter schools
as I recollect sent their kids to private
or parochial schools.
3. Many of our leaders have children who are no
longer in the school system because the
children have graduated. The Governor is in
this group. It would be interesting to find
out where "leaders'" children go or have gone
to school.
4. Children have different learning styles and
classrooms are often like microclimates. There
should be a variety of options to get the
best result for each child.
5. Regarding whether vouchers or charters lead to
a certain result, well failing schools should
be allowed to cease existence, whether they
are public or private. We know what the result
of a failing school or failing school system
is. The point is a failing public school is
allowed to go on, damaging the children who
attend.

Posted by: WVH on November 13, 2006 10:40 PM
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