I'm not blogging today but this deserves a mention:
King County Elections staff said about 100 bags -- containing up to 20,000 absentee ballots that had been dropped off at polling sites on Election Day -- remain uncounted because of an array of problems caused by the bags' being overstuffed.Not clear yet whether any of the ballots are actually ineligible, and it's unlikely there could be nearly enough ballots to reverse Reichert's lead. But Darcy Burner is encouragedJim Buck, King County's interim elections director, acknowledged that the problems -- including broken zippers and unclosed bag seals -- could potentially have allowed ballots to be cast after voting ended.
"If you were going to have a Democrat win this district ... this would be the way it would play out," she said.What would Democrats do without ballots of questionable provenance? Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at November 12, 2006 07:01 AM | Email This
They forgot to mention that the bags were waterlogged and marked "Cook County, ILL" :^0
Posted by: rbb on November 12, 2006 07:10 AM
Most people stuff turkeys for thanksgiving, liberal election stealers stuff the ballot box.
Enough of this election theievery! If you liberals steal this one, the people will rise up!
Posted by: pbj on November 12, 2006 07:11 AMLets hope Dave wins with or without these. That scenarios gives him complete win.
Of course if these ballots put Darcy over....then they win via their system. And if Dave wins only cuz of these ballots, they go nutjob about it (shades of their rants about diebold, ohio, florida).
Ron Sims....time to take responsibility and RESIGN
Posted by: righton on November 12, 2006 07:22 AMAnd why always in King County?
Posted by: swassociates on November 12, 2006 07:25 AMPut the poll workers under oath and get a statement about the who, why and how the bags were mishandled.
The workers involved should never be let near a ballot (other than their own) again.
The ballots in those bags should receive extra scrutiny. Verified against poll book, every absentee in that bag should be not only have the signature verified, but the have the phone number on the security ballot called and the voter asked if they dropped their ballot at that polling station.
If a voter denies dropping their ballot at the polling place, we have clear evidence of vote fraud, criminal activity, and a full investigation and prosecution should follow.
But in KC? Not a chance.
Posted by: JCM on November 12, 2006 07:31 AMThe Republicans would rather prevent legal votes from being counted than accept the will of the people.
This is why the Republicans have lost a ton of representation in our state and in the country.
Grow up Stefan. That is, if you really want your party to ever win again.
Posted by: Bob Brown on November 12, 2006 07:43 AMIf all 20,000 of these are claimed to be from D8, that I would think would be taken as evidence of fraud. It would defy the odds too much to be believable.
Posted by: TellingTheTruth on November 12, 2006 07:47 AMThe R's have always said:
COUNT EVERY LEGAL VOTE
The D's continue with:
COUNT EVERY VOTE
The is difference is the legitimacy of the the election, and survival of the Republic.
Start here with your education.
A marked ballot is not a legal vote unless it is cast by a CITIZEN of the United States, properly registered in his or her State. That the ballot is cast according to the law and marked following the instructions, and is the only vote cast by the voter.
Anything else is not a LEGAL vote. Any thing else is fraud, a crime. You are advocating for criminal activity that would not represent the will of the people but those lengths some would got to pursue power at any cost is and any act is deemed acceptable.
Posted by: JCM on November 12, 2006 07:53 AMLogical to have a few from long distance show up late. Possibly fradulant to have a pile show up from local.
Maybe this answers STefan's math question about how they'd pull this off; take the estimated deficit for Darcy, then apply some 55% ratio onto new ballots; solve for that and you get the total new ballots needed (submitted).
Posted by: righton on November 12, 2006 07:57 AMThe vast majority of voter fraud in this country in the last 10 years has been in favor of the Democrats (ACORN doesn't have conservative leanings). We don't trust you people to do it legally, much less simply play fair, because of your history.
So, when something comes to light that shows potential for vote fraud, we sound the alarm. Not as over-the-top as turning a miscalculation based on intelligence reports from 13 countries into "Bush lied", but we don't have as much practice at hysteria as you do.
Posted by: sro on November 12, 2006 08:02 AMLets see now - How many stuffed ballots are needed? Say about 5,000?
That would be just about right to put her over the top.
Watch and see! The KingCo crew is Baaack!
Posted by: deadwood on November 12, 2006 08:58 AMI'd rather lose honestly than have to rely on very questionable activity to win.
Posted by: jimg on November 12, 2006 09:17 AM""If you were going to have a Democrat win this district ... this would be the way it would play out," she said"
Is she saying she need "help" from KCRE to win? Is she implying something here. Is this statement some kind of "code"?
Just found it interesting her choice of words.
Posted by: Chris on November 12, 2006 09:58 AMall in all, i hope that puffy school lunch monitor-mom loses. will any terrorist fear her? ha. if "we need change" so much, start with your resume, meaningful political experience & diet. our WA congress & senate reps will start resembling Dixie Chicks. mein got!
Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on November 12, 2006 10:20 AMCan Spokane bail him out?
I have my legs crossed - tight.
Posted by: Jack on November 12, 2006 10:22 AMAh, Darcy--we hardly knew ya.
Posted by: Organization Man on November 12, 2006 10:31 AMthis reminds me of Seattle(?) or another city's brilliant 'blue bag recycling' program. all goes into bag. simplicity touted. everything mixes around. bureaucrats scratch head at damaged, useless & contaminated recyclables. (back to Go--collect $200.)
sidebar--did the press ever mention the name of the genius who suggested/changed to an odd-size (postage due) envelope & ballot? i guess not. we can design flawless 'art parks' in Seattle but not simple voting materials.
Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on November 12, 2006 10:35 AMA larger than expected number of absentee ballots were dropped off at polling places (my wife and I did just that). So the bags were too full and couldn't be properly closed. If, as the article states, the bags were under control of election officials there should be no problem. But I do think an investigation is in order, everyone involved questioned under oath. We know that King Ron is not to be trusted. Is this sloppiness what any bank would envy?
Once again the incompetence of the King administration is on full display. Given the historical number of ballots dropped off at the polls, the increase in absentee ballots, and the higher postage required, someone with a brain - and that leaves out Sims - could have figured out that more ballot bags would be required at the polls. It's time for the most incompetent county executive in America to resign. His arrogance, illegal land grabs, and documented record of incompetence have led to a vote of no confidence by the people. Sims must go. That's the record any bank would envy.
Posted by: Obi-Wan on November 12, 2006 10:38 AMEven if there really were enough ballots to give Burner a lead, Dems might want to be careful here. Even the perception of another stolen election, real or not could hurt WA Dem chances in '08. If it were me, I'd cut Burner loose. She ran a weak campaign anyway.
But Dems don't think that way, it's go for broke!
Posted by: Jeff B. on November 12, 2006 10:43 AMThat said, I believe, unfortunately, that Reichert will win. Unfortunate because IMHO an objective analysis of his record as both a law enforcement officer and a Congressmen show a level of incompetence equal to Rumsfeld.
I don't hear "FRAUD" being screamed here. What I see is what the Judge said was a Problem. King County Elections. You seem to forget that part don't you.
2004 is in the past, but KCRE is still here, counting votes with all it's past accuracy. Why should the public trust them? They still have the same Boss.
There has been improvement, but still the same King in the castle. Until Sims endorses an Elected Auditor, the public will still consider KCRE a sham.
Posted by: chris on November 12, 2006 11:48 AMthey've done same w respect to Fla and Ohio
Posted by: righton on November 12, 2006 12:01 PMMeanwhile, "Smiling Sam Reed" is overseeing another gem of an election, and is ready to certify but not verify the results of this long overdue vote count.
Posted by: John B on November 12, 2006 12:44 PMWhat the court said is that the election was screwed up, but since he could not know which way the illegal votes were cast, he could not nullify them.
As long as the fraud gets counted it's all over. I can only hope that comes back to hunt the dems one of these days
WHOA! - WHOA! - WHOA! there fella -- Seattle hit with a terrorist attack???? -- NO WAY would that happen -- maybe a deranged loaner taking a whack at a local Jew(ish) person or ediface -- but come on really -- with Bagdad Jim and Osama Mama Murray and the 99th least effective US senator - funny business cantvotewell and THEIR overwhelming moonbat BASE -- Noooo Waaaay will Seattle ever get hit -- this is a very safe area for them -- their support bases being well ensconced for many many years in the local academic/engineering/aerospace/software industries
Posted by: Bill on November 12, 2006 01:35 PMDoes he mean that one of the paid DEMOCRATS working for King County and employed by Ron Sims had the ballot bags in his/her car or kept overnight at home or, or, or??? Locks and enclosed secure tags are attached to these bags for a reason so they cannot be tampered with!!! With these bags being open, ANYONE can place any number of unattributed ballots into them. Chain of custody, my rear end...
Posted by: sendpoly on November 12, 2006 01:46 PMNow my off the cuff comment is starting to weird me out, so I think I will just go back to my alcohol now and brood for the rest of the afternoon. Thanks for the challenge, tho'.
kcre slogan (and sam reed's too)
Certify but dont verify
Posted by: righton on November 12, 2006 03:18 PMEfforts by Shark to demonstrate chicanery will have little or no impact on the outcome, regardless of the truth. Washington State has been corrupted. Long live the Queen.
Posted by: Snuffy on November 12, 2006 03:31 PMObama will be the next President of the US .... not Clinton.
He is poised perfectly for the run. Big state, Illinois, historic first for an Afrrican American as President, dwith a broad support base including women, Hispanics and Blacks and urban centers.
He is supremely articulate and intelligent, god, what a relief. And he has ideas, energy and is perhaps the most telegenic leader out there.
Tell me you have seen a bad photo or clip of him? None. Almost movie star good looking, but not a pretty boy face, just good old American good looking guy. And presence.
Barack Obama, a real 21 st Century President.
He solves the Clinton love/hate thing for Dems.
She is scared of him at present, watch the real fight as campaigning starts.
Count Every legal Vote???
HAHA...your party has proved over and over again -- you even sue and bring things to the US supreme court to STOP legal votes from being counted.
GROW up and fight fair or don't fight at all. The Republicans are the biggest lying hypocrites out there. No vote is a legal vote unless it's for the Republicans....you guys make me puke.
Posted by: Bob Brown on November 12, 2006 05:25 PMDoes that stop you from trying to cheat to win more elections (as if 2000 wasn't enough)? No...you have to beging the lying, cheating, whining process all over again....get ready to get all your lawyers rich again...they are the only ones who benefit from your deceitful, get Republicans elected by any non-legal means possible strategy. Puke somewhere else....how about Texas or somewhere....
PS...too bad Prejduice didn't include jail time...maybe then you'd think twice about trying to 1) prevent legal votes from counting and 2) cheating to win elections.
GROW UP PLEASE for everyone's benefit
That cracks me up! You loved how all those poeple voted as long as Rossi was the winner in your eyes.
Give it up...the transparency of your efforts are clear. The judge said WITH PREJUDICE...yet you continue to act as if counting every legal vote is bad.
Posted by: Bob Brown on November 12, 2006 05:35 PMYou can't get away with labelling as "unfair" a simple desire to have only legal votes in the mix.
Posted by: Misty on November 12, 2006 05:37 PMYou are a liar. What about all the crooked Diebold machines? Where are all the Democrats complaining? Or is it because they won that all of a sudden the Diebold machines are working correctly?
You are a lousy lying traitorous liberal scum!
Posted by: pbj on November 12, 2006 06:18 PM"Oh yeah, Republican whiners...last time you brought this to trial and got an extremely favorable judge to hear your case and he dismissed it WITH PREJUDICE"
The PREJUDICE as stated by the judge was the corrupt culture at King County Records & Elections that he was disgusted about. Yes, it definitely deserved to be brought to trial because we live in America. So, stop trying to rewrite history with your pablum, mutilate the truth and GROW UP !
Posted by: KS on November 12, 2006 06:26 PMWe don't yet know how many ballots were cast; there could be thousands of ballots, postmarked by Tuesday all over the world, wending their way here-- and already you guys are feeling so desperate that you're repeating rumors and demanding disenfranchisement of legitimate voters. Your rosy predictions of Rep. Reichert's easy re-election seem as distant as the long, hot Summer days in which you made them.
Posted by: Paddy Mac on November 12, 2006 07:00 PMFrom Sims' garage.
Posted by: Tyler Durden on November 12, 2006 07:03 PMthere was alot of stuff for the black bag and I am not surprised the zippers broke.
Posted by: alf on November 12, 2006 08:32 PMI couldn't follow everything you said. Try using paragraphs.
...many cheapskates probably walked their mail-in ballot to the polling place.
My observation is that 1/4th to 1/3rd of the ballots at a poll site are dropped off mail ballots.
Back when I received mail ballots, I always walked it to my poll site. Why? I simply never trusted the mail.
So I guess that makes me and 1,000s of others 'cheapskates'.
I specifically told election judges to be prepared for 'overstuffed' and spillover ballots similar to 2004.
It happens. It was covered in training. No mysteries there.
...the side slot of the AccuVote machine was NOT clearly evident to someone wanting to drop off such a ballot.
Yea. That blackbox blows. The side door is not visible. Made worse by the poor lighting at my poll site. Nearly every voter had to be told how to insert their ballots ("On the side, 45 degrees").
Posted by: zappini on November 12, 2006 08:38 PMHave you served as a poll worker or observer? I ask because your comments don't apply.
No one keeps a running tally on the ballots received or tendered.
Not true. We count everything. There's both a D and R present for every critical operation. At my poll site, we had to remove excess ballots from the side pocket about mid-way through the day. Everyone watched. The ballots were counted and went into the blue bag and sealed.
At the end of the day, we reopened the bag, took the additional ballots out of the side pocket, recounted everything, and stuffed the ballots into the blue bag and resealed it.
Then one D and one R drives all the gear, ballots, and supplies back to the depot.
All SOP.
Adding 5,000 ballots or more to the system is easily accomplished.
Fantasy.
It would be extremely difficult for someone to inject mail ballots into the chain of custody via the poll sites. Not impossible. But pretty damned unlikely.
Posted by: zappini on November 12, 2006 08:47 PMWhat about all the crooked Diebold machines? Where are all the Democrats complaining? Or is it because they won that all of a sudden the Diebold machines are working correctly?
I'm a Democrat. I am utterly opposed to the use of unreliable, untested, and unaudited computerized voting and counting machines. Including all the Diebold touchscreens and optical scanners used by King County.
And I'm standing right here. I've been to a lot of meetings, hearings, events, etc., speaking out against secret vote counts. Sorry, but I don't recall seeing you anywhere.
Though it's a strictly non-partisan group, Washington Citizens for Fair Elections is mostly people from the left. Though solid conservatives like Don Ward, Stefan, Jim March, Tim Borders, etc. also attend our meetings.
We have a meeting this Tuesday Nov 14th at Bagley Elementary at 6:30pm. Show up if want to see firsthand how us 'lousy lying traitorous liberal scum' are fighting for election integrity.
Or stay home. And complain. Whatever you think helps most. It's up to you.
Posted by: zappini on November 12, 2006 08:57 PMI worked the election.
You rock. Thank you for your service.
I don't see how they could be having problems ... all the bags were dropped off completely sealed to the "depot". They had a procedure in place for dealing with this.
Yup.
Posted by: zappini on November 12, 2006 09:00 PMI worked at a polling place...
You rock too. Thank you for your service.
Posted by: zappini on November 12, 2006 09:10 PMBob, what is your definition of a legal vote?
Posted by: Michael on November 12, 2006 09:47 PMBob, what is your definition of a legal vote?
Posted by: Michael on November 12, 2006 09:48 PMBy the way, the context of the Burner quote in the Seattle Times was, "Burner, reached at home, was encouraged that there were more votes in King County left to count. 'If you were going to have a Democrat win this district ... this would be the way it would play out,' she said." She seems to have been referring to increased turnout in King County meaning more votes to count, not to election irregularities.
Posted by: Spot on November 12, 2006 10:34 PMSo Zappini and Lisa - are done congratulating yourselves?
Posted by: Janet S on November 12, 2006 10:40 PMSo Zappini and Lisa - are done congratulating yourselves?
Technically, I was praising Lisa and alf. I don't think either of them were keen to join my mutual admiration society.
I think I know what's happening here. I haven't praised you yet. I know that it sometimes feels bad to be left out. So here it goes...
Janet S, you rock too!
There. Does that feel better? Are we happy?
I ask because you seem upset. You're claiming I've said things I haven't said. (Written. You know what I mean.)
And it also seems like you begrudge my efforts working the election. There, I must apologize again. You shouldn't have been left out. Next time around, you too can sign up to be a poll worker or observer. Defend democracy. Work for election integrity. Learn how the system works. Pull your weight.
Then maybe you wouldn't get worked up about the wrong things.
Cheers, Jason
I forgot to address your concern. Of course seals break, bags burst, people make mistakes, etc. These are physical items we're talking about here. And humans. That's why there's checks and balances. And trust established through mutual suspicion and oversight.
If you've got a better way, I'm all ears.
Posted by: zappini on November 13, 2006 12:01 AMPBJ - you have serious anger issues. Hey, all you republicans out there...do you support PBJ's positions (and posturing)? By remaining silent, we can only assume PBJ is representative of your side. I guess that's parf of the reasons the republicans have been marginalized.
KS - You create a revisionist history that underscores why you and your party want to see legal republican votes counted more than legal democrat ones. The prejudice was against the party bringing the suit...oh yeah..that was REPUBLICANS. I know, if you say a lie enough people will believe it. Rove was very good at that for 6 years....but the people got a little smarter after a while. Thank goodness for our democracy they did!
Bill Cruchon - Who is whining? I'm simply pointing out the obvious, deep and destructive hypocrisy presented in the arguments above and in the original post. You would have a better logic string by saying "Reason I'm not a republican - I won't succumb to constant lying, miststating of facts, scare tactics, graft and, especially, high-handed morality lectures from the most immoral folks out there".
Dave G - So telling the truth and counting every legal vote is not fair? Oh yeah, you want republicans to win. Gotta throw out legal votes for that to happen. Not exactly definition of a "fair shake". Rather: Honest, truthful elections. If the republicans can't with honestly, is it really right to cheat? (Note: no fair asking the many cheating republicans who have been indicted or thrown out of office recently).
Posted by: Bob Brown on November 13, 2006 05:12 AMSay they count all the legal votes and Reichert wins (which I'll congratulate him on). Will that really make you happy? You like his searing intellect? His tremendous legislation introduction? His incredible ability to bring solutions to problems? His lighting fast decision making?
Posted by: Bob Brown on November 13, 2006 05:15 AMSo NO, I do not see this as a "mistake". But a calculated move to insure that, if an election involves King County only Democrats get elected.
Posted by: Mike P on November 13, 2006 06:40 AMIgnore it - just go ahead and count them, assuming that the "chain of custody" held up, and this was just an innocent error. Result - stuffed ballots counted, Marcy wins.
Investigate it, but go ahead and count it all: Looks good to the gullible King County residents who don't seem to understand how poorly managed their county is. Result - Marcy wins.
Scrutinize the ballots, investigate those who turned them in, only count those ballots that can be 100% verified. Won't happen, but Reichert would maintain his lead.
You get what you vote for, and this county has been voting for liberal Democrats for a long time. Now you have to deal with the corruption and incompetence.
Posted by: Janet S on November 13, 2006 07:27 AMOn a serious note, the procedures that used to be in place required that, at the end of the day, the polling judges would count the number of absentee ballots that lazy/cheapskate voters dropped off at the polling place. The total number got recorded on the transmittal sheet signed by the judges. If the overstuffed, unzipped, unsealed bags contain more absentee ballots than were recorded on the transmittal sheet, then something underhanded is being attempted. Remember, the primary security for validating absentee ballots, UNFORTUNATELY, lies at KCE headquarters, not in the polling place.
Posted by: huckleberry on November 13, 2006 09:08 AM""If the bag is not sealed the ballots should not count."
So, if you cast your ballot correctly, and a poll worker made an error, you lose your franchise. Yeah, that's justice."
Yes, that is justice. Because in that case, the poll worker - and therefore King County Elections Commission - would be held responsible for that error. And then, in any normal world, KCEC would be forced to make changes so that this type of thing - a complete lack of ballot security - would never happen again.
But you advocate NOT holding anyone responsible, so our ballots are not only unsecure this election, but in all future elections. You're supporting and excusing the weakest link in the chain, rather than attempting to improve the system. And the system has had problems for years, hasn't it? For all the Democrats' reliance on Judge Bridge's decision - it did involve his recognition of THOUSANDS of illegal ballots, and rested on the fact that nobody could prove for whom the illegal ballots were tallied.
Do you always try to prop up systems and organizations that fail year after year? I suppose you probably liked the Monorail idea too.
Bob Brown:
"Say they count all the legal votes and Reichert wins (which I'll congratulate him on). Will that really make you happy?"
Actually, you could have stopped after the first seven words: "Sat they count all the legal votes." Yes, that would make me happy regardless of who wins.
If they count illegal ballots, and ballots that have no clear chain of ballot custody, and ballots that were unsecured after the election, would that make you happy, regardless of who wins? Isn't this the type of shenanigans that Democrats were yiping about in 2000 and 2004? Why don't you care NOW?
Posted by: Larry on November 13, 2006 10:29 AMYep. I like him better than any Congressperson who's represented me to date. So you don't like him. So what? I could care less. I don't know why you should care that I and others might be very happy to be represented by him.
Posted by: ferrous on November 13, 2006 11:18 AMThe effected voters could be notified (as in theory they do with bad signatures) to have them verify their votes.
Allowing bags full of tampered votes is not democracy!
Posted by: Right said Fred on November 13, 2006 12:39 PMBob Brown. Seems like you love to say a lie enough so that people will perceive, as your comments have been doing - that makes you the revisionist historian, dude. I challenge you to go back and reread the transcripts of the Governor's election trial and you will find that I am correct about what he said about the culture of KCR & E. So f**ing what !
This so-called prejudious is in your imbalanced imagination. BTW - I am not a Republican - I am independent and vote for the best candidate, which Dave Reichert was. I voted for Democrats too, which should eliminate one of your talking points.
Please name the politicians from this state that have a "searing intellect." Please name the freshman politician from our state (or any state)that has "tremendous legislation introduction," and an ability to bring solutions to problems. My guess is that you won't be able to because as able or ambitious as Reichert or any other freshman politican may be, they are usually not listened to simply for the fact that they are freshmen politicans.
Any politician campaigning on the promise of bringing "change," whether an R or a D, is simply full of BS if they will be a freshman legislator if they are elected. Their ability to "change" things comes with their increased tenure in the legislative body. If your arguement is that Reichert didn't accomplish anything in his first two-year term, then I think you are a misguided fool to believe that he really could accomplish anything of substance while a freshman legislator.
Posted by: Michael on November 13, 2006 01:31 PMThe only reasonable thing to do with ballots of unknown custody is to reject them and scold the poll workers and/ or KCE elections managers that failed to forecast the absentee ballot drop-off rate and created the problem.
Posted by: Jeff B. on November 13, 2006 01:38 PMThe fix is in. Marcy wins.
Posted by: G Jiggy on November 13, 2006 01:40 PMFreezing the voter database and all signature on file records from changes from the election to the certification would be a great way to prevent malfeasance. There's still the problem of a given voter's signature changing over the years, and that's why ultimately, there should be a better form of authentication than a signature used. But that's certainly not going to happen any time soon. If I recall, KCE claims that they are too busy to freeze the database because they need to continue to process registration changes. I can't see how they could be so busy with registrations changes or updates during the post election, pre certification process. After all, isn't that when they should be busy counting and tallying votes?
It would be great to simply have the database put into a read-only state during the post election phase. They keys to reactivate writes could be held in escrow with the SOS or similar. There are lots of simple process improvements that would go a long way towards establishing high voter confidence.
Posted by: Jeff B. on November 13, 2006 02:36 PMit's not conspiracy. more like reactions to a series of laughable, repeated and serious errors. just going on a proven ACTUAL track record. complete with 'reform' promises of yore. if this was an 'R' office, i'd rant just as loud to can the incompetents. believe me or not, dosent matter. actions are out there. KCE office did not yet fix things.
Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on November 13, 2006 03:31 PMJeff, the goal is not voter confidence, but voter satisfaction. There is a difference.
So, to answer your question, if KCE starting 'finding' ballots in Reichert favorable precincts the counting would come into question. If the ballots continue to trend at approx. the same percentages for each county as they stand now there wouldn't really be reason to consider the count invalid.
Posted by: Marc on November 13, 2006 04:07 PMI dunno... Can't appeal to the Supreme Court like the Repubs in Flodida.
Posted by: Tokaloo on November 13, 2006 04:08 PM