November 12, 2006
"Ballot-bag problems may slow counting of 8th District votes"
I'm not blogging today but this deserves a mention:
King County Elections staff said about 100 bags -- containing up to 20,000 absentee ballots that had been dropped off at polling sites on Election Day -- remain uncounted because of an array of problems caused by the bags' being overstuffed.
Jim Buck, King County's interim elections director, acknowledged that the problems -- including broken zippers and unclosed bag seals -- could potentially have allowed ballots to be cast after voting ended.
Not clear yet whether any of the ballots are actually ineligible, and it's unlikely there could be nearly enough ballots to reverse Reichert's lead. But Darcy Burner is encouraged
"If you were going to have a Democrat win this district ... this would be the way it would play out," she said.
What would Democrats do without ballots of questionable provenance?
Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at November 12, 2006
07:01 AM | Email This
1. We knew it would happen! The Ballot Stuffing begins! King County Elections will once again change the results of an election.
"Jim Buck, King County's interim elections director, acknowledged that the problems -- including broken zippers and unclosed bag seals -- could potentially have allowed ballots to be cast after voting ended."
They forgot to mention that the bags were waterlogged and marked "Cook County, ILL" :^0
3. "If you were going to have a Democrat win this district ... this would be the way it would play out," she said.
Most people stuff turkeys for thanksgiving, liberal election stealers stuff the ballot box.
Enough of this election theievery! If you liberals steal this one, the people will rise up!
I guess she's too dumb not to admit that they are following their playbook.
Lets hope Dave wins with or without these. That scenarios gives him complete win.
Of course if these ballots put Darcy over....then they win via their system. And if Dave wins only cuz of these ballots, they go nutjob about it (shades of their rants about diebold, ohio, florida).
Ron Sims....time to take responsibility and RESIGN
5. HOW SURPRISING! More probable Vote Fraud from King County. Where is the (inept) Federal Election Supervisor? You know, the guy who couldn't be bothered with the Governorship fraud.
6. What would Democrats do without ballots of questionable provenance?
And why always in King County?
We know what precinct these came from.
Put the poll workers under oath and get a statement about the who, why and how the bags were mishandled.
The workers involved should never be let near a ballot (other than their own) again.
The ballots in those bags should receive extra scrutiny. Verified against poll book, every absentee in that bag should be not only have the signature verified, but the have the phone number on the security ballot called and the voter asked if they dropped their ballot at that polling station.
If a voter denies dropping their ballot at the polling place, we have clear evidence of vote fraud, criminal activity, and a full investigation and prosecution should follow.
But in KC? Not a chance.
Give me a break.
The Republicans would rather prevent legal votes from being counted than accept the will of the people.
This is why the Republicans have lost a ton of representation in our state and in the country.
Grow up Stefan. That is, if you really want your party to ever win again.
The odds are that most of these ballots aren't from WA D8, correct? They could all be from Seattle, for example... although that is where DB's main support is, that isn't in D8.
If all 20,000 of these are claimed to be from D8, that I would think would be taken as evidence of fraud. It would defy the odds too much to be believable.
BB grow up you idiot, I have no more patients for utter ignoramuses like you who blatantly advocate for fraudulent elections.
The R's have always said:
COUNT EVERY LEGAL VOTE
The D's continue with:
COUNT EVERY VOTE
The is difference is the legitimacy of the the election, and survival of the Republic.
Start here with your education.
A marked ballot is not a legal vote unless it is cast by a CITIZEN of the United States, properly registered in his or her State. That the ballot is cast according to the law and marked following the instructions, and is the only vote cast by the voter.
Anything else is not a LEGAL vote. Any thing else is fraud, a crime. You are advocating for criminal activity that would not represent the will of the people but those lengths some would got to pursue power at any cost is and any act is deemed acceptable.
OK, we voted "a long time ago"....how the heck can they come up w/ new bags this long after the election? I mean, local mail is fast, even for votes mailed on Tuesday. And for mail from far flung places, you don't get this volume.....
Logical to have a few from long distance show up late. Possibly fradulant to have a pile show up from local.
Maybe this answers STefan's math question about how they'd pull this off; take the estimated deficit for Darcy, then apply some 55% ratio onto new ballots; solve for that and you get the total new ballots needed (submitted).
Grow up yourself, Bob, and try to understand your enemy. Isn't that what you libs are always saying about the terrorists? You need to apply it to the Republicans, too. ...If you can drop your hypocrisy for 10 seconds.
The vast majority of voter fraud in this country in the last 10 years has been in favor of the Democrats (ACORN doesn't have conservative leanings). We don't trust you people to do it legally, much less simply play fair, because of your history.
So, when something comes to light that shows potential for vote fraud, we sound the alarm. Not as over-the-top as turning a miscalculation based on intelligence reports from 13 countries into "Bush lied", but we don't have as much practice at hysteria as you do.
Of course Marcy Burnout is ecstatic. Could it be any other way?
Lets see now - How many stuffed ballots are needed? Say about 5,000?
That would be just about right to put her over the top.
Watch and see! The KingCo crew is Baaack!
14. Washington State Election Laws are so full of holes, it doesn't matter how things APPEAR. We have a gutless Attorney General and a gutless King County Prosecutor who hide behind the ambiguities of weak Election Laws. Also, the Feds turn a blind eye.
Between this and monitoring those ACORN submitted registrations, there ought to be some outrage, right??
However, the outrage is muted because Bush & Rumsfeld blew post-war Iraq and went on a deficit spending spree that gutted the Republican Party.
We must come to grips with Republican failures in order to move ahead.
The good news is our opponents are the Democrats. They will likely take the Presidency in 2008....and then lose Congress again in 2010. And so it goes.........
Remember, there are 44 and growing Blue Dog Democrats. THEY control the House. And Lieberman controls the Senate.
Nothing significant will happen the next 2 years....Fed Minimum Wage increase and a bunch of hot rhetoric. When the Dems control everything in 2008....the American public will give them 2 years to perform. And they will not. Also, the terrorists will IMMEDIATELY test them after they take the Presidency. Who in there right mind thinks the terrorist element will say....oh, the Dems are in charge...we'll lay down our arms! Are you crazy?~! The Radical Muslims hate ALL of us...Left and Right.
The Dems will try the failed Jimmy Carter negotiating tactics Carter used in Iran in 1979. Carter is running around trying to re-write history.
The Dems will blow there opportunity.
15. Grow up Stefan. That is, if you really want your party to ever win again.
I'd rather lose honestly than have to rely on very questionable activity to win.
16. looks like conservatives got "Bucked" again in WA.
Am I reading too much into Darcy's comment?
""If you were going to have a Democrat win this district ... this would be the way it would play out," she said"
Is she saying she need "help" from KCRE to win? Is she implying something here. Is this statement some kind of "code"?
Just found it interesting her choice of words.
better get my conservative 'enraged' disenfranchised-voters-for-hire folk out there--pull them off the matress sale sign duties. camera angle will make 7 look like 70,000. follow the D playbook.
all in all, i hope that puffy school lunch monitor-mom loses. will any terrorist fear her? ha. if "we need change" so much, start with your resume, meaningful political experience & diet. our WA congress & senate reps will start resembling Dixie Chicks. mein got!
19. What do you suppose was going on in MT and MO? They, who have taken control and must be obeyed, probably took their lessons on creative election design from the girls here in Seattle
20. What do you suppose was going on in MT and MO? They, who have taken control and must be obeyed, probably took their lessons on creative election design from the girls here in Seattle
Will this increase Maria Cantwell's count? Does Mike McGavick still have a chance?
Can Spokane bail him out?
I have my legs crossed - tight.
22. Due to the extra $.24 cents postage, many cheapskates probably walked their mail-in ballot to the polling place. As a poll observer, I saw a guy bring in 4 absentee mail-in envelops and noticed that the side slot of the AccuVote machine was NOT clearly evident to someone wanting to drop off such a ballot. I specifically told election judges to be prepared for 'overstuffed' and spillover ballots similar to 2004. This was in the 43rd leg. district and I observed 4 polling places. THESE OUTER ENVELOPS PRESUMABLY HAVE NO POSTAGE AND SHOULD BE EASILY VERIFIED AND HEAVILY SCRUTINIZED; AND NOT ALL 20,OOO WILL BE FROM 8TH CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT VOTERS. AND HOW MANY MORE PROVISIONAL BALLOTS ARE THERE??
Chris: I agree--an interesting choice of words. All I can think is that she let her guard down momentarily and the truth slipped out. Either that, or she actually believes that stuffed ballot bags are the norm in KC (granted, a difficult argument to dispute). I'm sure the DCCC is already searching for another thirty-something single mom with an Ivy League degree to prop up against Dave in '06.
Ah, Darcy--we hardly knew ya.
this reminds me of Seattle(?) or another city's brilliant 'blue bag recycling' program. all goes into bag. simplicity touted. everything mixes around. bureaucrats scratch head at damaged, useless & contaminated recyclables. (back to Go--collect $200.)
sidebar--did the press ever mention the name of the genius who suggested/changed to an odd-size (postage due) envelope & ballot? i guess not. we can design flawless 'art parks' in Seattle but not simple voting materials.
25. ...I mean '08...
I'm not sure this issue is a big deal. From reading the article carefully, the bags were dropped off at the polling places empty, a part of the normal procedure. Poll workers took absentee ballots dropped off at the polling place, and placed into the bags for safe keeping (why the ballots weren't kept in the optical scanner machines is a valid question).
A larger than expected number of absentee ballots were dropped off at polling places (my wife and I did just that). So the bags were too full and couldn't be properly closed. If, as the article states, the bags were under control of election officials there should be no problem. But I do think an investigation is in order, everyone involved questioned under oath. We know that King Ron is not to be trusted. Is this sloppiness what any bank would envy?
Once again the incompetence of the King administration is on full display. Given the historical number of ballots dropped off at the polls, the increase in absentee ballots, and the higher postage required, someone with a brain - and that leaves out Sims - could have figured out that more ballot bags would be required at the polls. It's time for the most incompetent county executive in America to resign. His arrogance, illegal land grabs, and documented record of incompetence have led to a vote of no confidence by the people. Sims must go. That's the record any bank would envy.
MSM is priming the public for the "Whataya know! KCE just found a whole bunch of Burner ballots." story.
Even if there really were enough ballots to give Burner a lead, Dems might want to be careful here. Even the perception of another stolen election, real or not could hurt WA Dem chances in '08. If it were me, I'd cut Burner loose. She ran a weak campaign anyway.
But Dems don't think that way, it's go for broke!
28. They don't care how they win Jeff, and they aren't worried about future elections. As more lefties pour into the area it just becomes a matter of demographics. Eventually every district will be like the 7th. Ugh, I think I'm making myself sick.
29. Jeff B. I am not convinced anything could hurt the Dems chances in Washington State in 2008, except maybe a terrorist attack on Seattle in 2007. And honestly, it would be a shame for such brutal methods to be required to restore sanity to Washington State.
30. You say it is unlikely that Burner will oivertake Reichert. Mark my word, "She will Win".
Need I remind my Conservative brothers that the last time they screamed voter fraud; they went to the Courts in '04 to complain (and filed a complaint in Chelan County, one of the most conservative counties in the state). The Judge (John Bridges) laughed them out of the Court Room
He stated that the judiciary should exercise restraint; "unless an election is clearly invalid, when the people have spoken, their verdict should not be disturbed by the court
He also concluded that according to his interpretation of the Washington Administrative Code, "voters who improperly cast provisional ballots should not be disenfranchised
Nullifying the election...would be "the ultimate act of judicial egotism and judicial activism"
That said, I believe, unfortunately, that Reichert will win. Unfortunate because IMHO an objective analysis of his record as both a law enforcement officer and a Congressmen show a level of incompetence equal to Rumsfeld.
I don't hear "FRAUD" being screamed here. What I see is what the Judge said was a Problem. King County Elections. You seem to forget that part don't you.
2004 is in the past, but KCRE is still here, counting votes with all it's past accuracy. Why should the public trust them? They still have the same Boss.
There has been improvement, but still the same King in the castle. Until Sims endorses an Elected Auditor, the public will still consider KCRE a sham.
33. Whose to stop them? The Dems control all points of power and the sad fact is that in Puget Sound we live under a one party corrupt regime -- there is nothing that can be done save for thousands of disgusted voters marching on Sim's office -- it's Darcy by 129 votes
Maybe Dems know they will lose, but want to inject this ballot issue, as way to say they could have won , if only those bad repubs had left them "count all the votes"
they've done same w respect to Fla and Ohio
The longer the vote count is delayed in King County, the more I suspect Reichert will be "Loganized" by the Sims regime.
Meanwhile, "Smiling Sam Reed" is overseeing another gem of an election, and is ready to certify but not verify the results of this long overdue vote count.
36. My God this is so hard to believe. And Darcey is much too ignorant to know what she just said. I doubt she knows anything about the Governors race and all it strange dealings. Did she even vote in that election?
What the court said is that the election was screwed up, but since he could not know which way the illegal votes were cast, he could not nullify them.
As long as the fraud gets counted it's all over. I can only hope that comes back to hunt the dems one of these days
38. In the primary, as I recall, 88 bags (out of 508 polling places) were brought before the Canvassing Board due to broken, missing, or improper seals. The 100+ blue bags will be reviewed in this Tuesday's Canvassing Board meeting, as required by law.
I predict all bags will be ruled "okay to process" by the CB. These will go through the signature verification process Wednesday, and probably won't show up in the daily totals until Thursday and Friday.
All attention will then be turned to the provisional ballot duplication process.
#29 - huckleberry >>>>
WHOA! - WHOA! - WHOA! there fella -- Seattle hit with a terrorist attack???? -- NO WAY would that happen -- maybe a deranged loaner taking a whack at a local Jew(ish) person or ediface -- but come on really -- with Bagdad Jim and Osama Mama Murray and the 99th least effective US senator - funny business cantvotewell and THEIR overwhelming moonbat BASE -- Noooo Waaaay will Seattle ever get hit -- this is a very safe area for them -- their support bases being well ensconced for many many years in the local academic/engineering/aerospace/software industries
When Mr. "Pass the" Buck says that the unlocked, unzipped, unsecured ballot bags are all OK because there was a chain of custody, what in hell does he mean???
Does he mean that one of the paid DEMOCRATS working for King County and employed by Ron Sims had the ballot bags in his/her car or kept overnight at home or, or, or??? Locks and enclosed secure tags are attached to these bags for a reason so they cannot be tampered with!!! With these bags being open, ANYONE can place any number of unattributed ballots into them. Chain of custody, my rear end...
Bill, look at the numbers. How many moonbat voters
were taken out by the Jewish Federation gunman? My point is, Seattle, and increasingly, Bellevue, will always vote Dem as long as they have ballots, and a highly successful terrorist attack to eliminate moonbat voters is the only way they will be stopped.
Now my off the cuff comment is starting to weird me out, so I think I will just go back to my alcohol now and brood for the rest of the afternoon. Thanks for the challenge, tho'.
42. Bobby Eagan - we know you monitor this blog. You may steal the election for the Democrats but you will never fool us.
Gotta Love that one by JohnB
kcre slogan (and sam reed's too)
Certify but dont verify
"Chain of custody", the term simply doesn't apply to bags that are unsealed or opened for what ever reason. If the bag is not sealed the ballots should not count. Otherwise what purpose do seals and bags served? Opened bags are invitation to ballot stuffing. In my previous posting I spoke about the lack of reporting the total number of ballots in the pool. No one keeps a running tally on the ballots received or tendered. Therefore no claim of counting more ballots than reported may be made. Adding 5,000 ballots or more to the system is easily accomplished. Simply stuff the already opened bags. It's amazing to me that systems and policy in effect to prevent questionable actions fall to the wayside when questionable actions materialize.
Efforts by Shark to demonstrate chicanery will have little or no impact on the outcome, regardless of the truth. Washington State has been corrupted. Long live the Queen.
Obama will be the next President of the US .... not Clinton.
He is poised perfectly for the run. Big state, Illinois, historic first for an Afrrican American as President, dwith a broad support base including women, Hispanics and Blacks and urban centers.
He is supremely articulate and intelligent, god, what a relief. And he has ideas, energy and is perhaps the most telegenic leader out there.
Tell me you have seen a bad photo or clip of him? None. Almost movie star good looking, but not a pretty boy face, just good old American good looking guy. And presence.
Barack Obama, a real 21 st Century President.
He solves the Clinton love/hate thing for Dems.
She is scared of him at present, watch the real fight as campaigning starts.
46. Think Republican and Vote Republican.
Here is a message I read that says it all.
"Americans keep going back to the Democrats like drunks to a bottle. After a while, they sober up and put Republicans back in charge to clean up the mess".
47. Oh no, not another "iregularity." 'Ol Darcy is familiar enough with vote fraud here in KC to be correct that this is indeed how a democrat would take that seat.
48. Oh for joy---"FOUND" BALLOTS (again)!
What a bunch of sleazy whiners no this post.
Count Every legal Vote???
HAHA...your party has proved over and over again -- you even sue and bring things to the US supreme court to STOP legal votes from being counted.
GROW up and fight fair or don't fight at all. The Republicans are the biggest lying hypocrites out there. No vote is a legal vote unless it's for the Republicans....you guys make me puke.
Oh yeah, Republican whiners...last time you brought this to trial and got an extremely favorable judge to hear your case and he dismissed it WITH PREJUDICE
Does that stop you from trying to cheat to win more elections (as if 2000 wasn't enough)? No...you have to beging the lying, cheating, whining process all over again....get ready to get all your lawyers rich again...they are the only ones who benefit from your deceitful, get Republicans elected by any non-legal means possible strategy. Puke somewhere else....how about Texas or somewhere....
PS...too bad Prejduice didn't include jail time...maybe then you'd think twice about trying to 1) prevent legal votes from counting and 2) cheating to win elections.
GROW UP PLEASE for everyone's benefit
51. Bob, oh we're fighting fair, alright. We're the ones asking for clean elections. Dirty elections like KC ran in '04 are deicidedly NOT fair. Unless you thought it was good that KC let people vote dead, twice, fatal pends (about 200, just in those illegal ballots), non-citizen (yes, some people came forward here and admitted they weren't citizens, and some homeless listed European address as the permanent address!), felon,illegal provisional plus a pile of almost 100 votes not even counted and found much later on. We'd be happy if people like you would admit that and weren't trying to excuse illegal votes.
That cracks me up! You loved how all those poeple voted as long as Rossi was the winner in your eyes.
Give it up...the transparency of your efforts are clear. The judge said WITH PREJUDICE...yet you continue to act as if counting every legal vote is bad.
..and Bob, are you willing to admit here in front of everyone that you thought KC ran a "FAIR" election in '04, in light of all that I listed and everyone knows was wrong? Did the Democrats who run KCE play "fair" when they allowed all those illegal ballots?
You can't get away with labelling as "unfair" a simple desire to have only legal votes in the mix.
54. Reason #536 why I'm a Republican. They win big and still they whine and name call like spoiled 7th graders, (see Bob Brown, above). Expect similar behavior from the new congress.
55. George at 45: Obama may be good looking to you but I don't find him at all attractive. In fact, I think he's pretty weird looking. But what really scares me is his voting record, which is far to the left of even Hil-liar-y. Whatever... it should be an interesting battle shaping up for 2008. Hil-liar-y will definitely have the money advantage. To quote "Jon Carry," "Bring it on!" :-)
You are a liar. What about all the crooked Diebold machines? Where are all the Democrats complaining? Or is it because they won that all of a sudden the Diebold machines are working correctly?
You are a lousy lying traitorous liberal scum!
I'd say keep praying for the light and that the darkness of voter fraud will be dissipated. Put the 2004 Governor's election behind us.
"Oh yeah, Republican whiners...last time you brought this to trial and got an extremely favorable judge to hear your case and he dismissed it WITH PREJUDICE"
The PREJUDICE as stated by the judge was the corrupt culture at King County Records & Elections that he was disgusted about. Yes, it definitely deserved to be brought to trial because we live in America. So, stop trying to rewrite history with your pablum, mutilate the truth and GROW UP !
58. On the other side, the 100 or so bags of ballots should have all provisional ballots heavily scrutinized and destroyed if they are found to be illegitimate. I smell the stench of Moveon.org.
59. Put another tent over this dem circus! This is just too wild to believe. Which makes me hope that marcy burn'em is a sacrificial lamb in a sim effort to show he's cleaned things up on the elections front. After all this plays out she'll still lose and we'll breath a sigh of relief and take our eyes off 2008. Stay mobilized. He's still corrupt with power and a pawn in the dem game.
60. If they try to pull something provably dirty on Reicert, then he ought to definitely fight it in court. They should get a court-fight every time they try this garbage. We will harrass them every time until they finally "get it" that we won't put up with fake votes and vote-counting.
61. Misty, are you kidding me??? In this state? with the courts and the leaders of this state being so Liberal?? How could any conservative win? the climate is so bad for them and the corruption that we have all seen is so deep and entrenched in this state there is no way he could get a fair shake.
"If the bag is not sealed the ballots should not count."
So, if you cast your ballot correctly, and a poll worker made an error, you lose your franchise. Yeah, that's justice.
We don't yet know how many ballots were cast; there could be thousands of ballots, postmarked by Tuesday all over the world, wending their way here-- and already you guys are feeling so desperate that you're repeating rumors and demanding disenfranchisement of legitimate voters. Your rosy predictions of Rep. Reichert's easy re-election seem as distant as the long, hot Summer days in which you made them.
"Buck said the bags had a clear chain of custody.."
From Sims' garage.
64. #45, George, do you really think Hillary will put up with being the veep on that ticket? She already had problems with Gore being seen as #2 and the co-presidency being presented.
65. I worked the election. We had too many absentee ballots ... they didn't all fit into our "blue bag". We called for another bag, but they couldn't get us one. So, we put the overflow absentee ballots into the "red bag" as we were instructed by the "help line". The bags were all sealed ... no problem. I don't see how they could be having problems ... all the bags were dropped off completely sealed to the "depot". They had a procedure in place for dealing with this. There should not be a problem. Unbelievable!!!
66. Lisa..you're right. It IS UN-believable. If they try to throw the election with this, against obvious established trends.
I worked at a polling place and don't think this is as bad as it seems. The balllot storage boxes are enclosed inside the black bags withtheir own seals signed by the pollingplace inspector and a polling judge for the acuvote box.
there was alot of stuff for the black bag and I am not surprised the zippers broke.
Alan Deright @ 22 -
I couldn't follow everything you said. Try using paragraphs.
...many cheapskates probably walked their mail-in ballot to the polling place.
My observation is that 1/4th to 1/3rd of the ballots at a poll site are dropped off mail ballots.
Back when I received mail ballots, I always walked it to my poll site. Why? I simply never trusted the mail.
So I guess that makes me and 1,000s of others 'cheapskates'.
I specifically told election judges to be prepared for 'overstuffed' and spillover ballots similar to 2004.
It happens. It was covered in training. No mysteries there.
...the side slot of the AccuVote machine was NOT clearly evident to someone wanting to drop off such a ballot.
Yea. That blackbox blows. The side door is not visible. Made worse by the poor lighting at my poll site. Nearly every voter had to be told how to insert their ballots ("On the side, 45 degrees").
Snuffy @ 44 -
Have you served as a poll worker or observer? I ask because your comments don't apply.
No one keeps a running tally on the ballots received or tendered.
Not true. We count everything. There's both a D and R present for every critical operation. At my poll site, we had to remove excess ballots from the side pocket about mid-way through the day. Everyone watched. The ballots were counted and went into the blue bag and sealed.
At the end of the day, we reopened the bag, took the additional ballots out of the side pocket, recounted everything, and stuffed the ballots into the blue bag and resealed it.
Then one D and one R drives all the gear, ballots, and supplies back to the depot.
Adding 5,000 ballots or more to the system is easily accomplished.
It would be extremely difficult for someone to inject mail ballots into the chain of custody via the poll sites. Not impossible. But pretty damned unlikely.
pbj @ 56 -
What about all the crooked Diebold machines? Where are all the Democrats complaining? Or is it because they won that all of a sudden the Diebold machines are working correctly?
I'm a Democrat. I am utterly opposed to the use of unreliable, untested, and unaudited computerized voting and counting machines. Including all the Diebold touchscreens and optical scanners used by King County.
And I'm standing right here. I've been to a lot of meetings, hearings, events, etc., speaking out against secret vote counts. Sorry, but I don't recall seeing you anywhere.
Though it's a strictly non-partisan group, Washington Citizens for Fair Elections is mostly people from the left. Though solid conservatives like Don Ward, Stefan, Jim March, Tim Borders, etc. also attend our meetings.
We have a meeting this Tuesday Nov 14th at Bagley Elementary at 6:30pm. Show up if want to see firsthand how us 'lousy lying traitorous liberal scum' are fighting for election integrity.
Or stay home. And complain. Whatever you think helps most. It's up to you.
Lisa @ 65 -
I worked the election.
You rock. Thank you for your service.
I don't see how they could be having problems ... all the bags were dropped off completely sealed to the "depot". They had a procedure in place for dealing with this.
alf @ 67 -
I worked at a polling place...
You rock too. Thank you for your service.
I got tired of reading the crap from Bob Brown, and did not bother to read the rest of the comments to see if anyone asked him the following question:
Bob, what is your definition of a legal vote?
I got tired of reading the crap from Bob Brown, and did not bother to read the rest of the comments to see if anyone asked him the following question:
Bob, what is your definition of a legal vote?
You people are so funny. First you predict a Reichert blow-out in spite of all of the evidence to the contrary, and now you're predicting Burner will miraculously come back and win despite all of the evidence to the contrary. Not very reality-based, are you?
By the way, the context of the Burner quote in the Seattle Times was, "Burner, reached at home, was encouraged that there were more votes in King County left to count. 'If you were going to have a Democrat win this district ... this would be the way it would play out,' she said." She seems to have been referring to increased turnout in King County meaning more votes to count, not to election irregularities.
The poll workers writing here about how the system wouldn't let unsealed bags happen - are you plants, or what? The story says the Elections Director ADMITTED that bags were unclosed, unsealed, etc.
So Zappini and Lisa - are done congratulating yourselves?
77. I'm not a plant, and I'm not saying it couldn't happen ... I'm just saying that it would take a lot of something "fishy" going on to explain it ... it couldn't happen if all the rules were followed, and KCE were'nt screwing up (or worse) as usual. It SHOULDN'T happen, and WOULDN'T happen in a different county.
Hi Janet S-
So Zappini and Lisa - are done congratulating yourselves?
Technically, I was praising Lisa and alf. I don't think either of them were keen to join my mutual admiration society.
I think I know what's happening here. I haven't praised you yet. I know that it sometimes feels bad to be left out. So here it goes...
Janet S, you rock too!
There. Does that feel better? Are we happy?
I ask because you seem upset. You're claiming I've said things I haven't said. (Written. You know what I mean.)
And it also seems like you begrudge my efforts working the election. There, I must apologize again. You shouldn't have been left out. Next time around, you too can sign up to be a poll worker or observer. Defend democracy. Work for election integrity. Learn how the system works. Pull your weight.
Then maybe you wouldn't get worked up about the wrong things.
79. Heh, I predicted at least two weeks ago that enough ballots would be "found" to insure we got burnt err burner. Worked for gregiore. Question is will her opponent just roll over and quit like Rossi in the face of the obvious?
Janet S @ 76-
I forgot to address your concern. Of course seals break, bags burst, people make mistakes, etc. These are physical items we're talking about here. And humans. That's why there's checks and balances. And trust established through mutual suspicion and oversight.
If you've got a better way, I'm all ears.
81. Bullshit. When will we take action and stop speculating.
A legal vote is one cast by a legal voter within the rules of the system.
PBJ - you have serious anger issues. Hey, all you republicans out there...do you support PBJ's positions (and posturing)? By remaining silent, we can only assume PBJ is representative of your side. I guess that's parf of the reasons the republicans have been marginalized.
KS - You create a revisionist history that underscores why you and your party want to see legal republican votes counted more than legal democrat ones. The prejudice was against the party bringing the suit...oh yeah..that was REPUBLICANS. I know, if you say a lie enough people will believe it. Rove was very good at that for 6 years....but the people got a little smarter after a while. Thank goodness for our democracy they did!
Bill Cruchon - Who is whining? I'm simply pointing out the obvious, deep and destructive hypocrisy presented in the arguments above and in the original post. You would have a better logic string by saying "Reason I'm not a republican - I won't succumb to constant lying, miststating of facts, scare tactics, graft and, especially, high-handed morality lectures from the most immoral folks out there".
Dave G - So telling the truth and counting every legal vote is not fair? Oh yeah, you want republicans to win. Gotta throw out legal votes for that to happen. Not exactly definition of a "fair shake". Rather: Honest, truthful elections. If the republicans can't with honestly, is it really right to cheat? (Note: no fair asking the many cheating republicans who have been indicted or thrown out of office recently).
Hey angry republicans out there...
Say they count all the legal votes and Reichert wins (which I'll congratulate him on). Will that really make you happy? You like his searing intellect? His tremendous legislation introduction? His incredible ability to bring solutions to problems? His lighting fast decision making?
What part of "this should not have happened in the first place". Do you not understand? King County Elections has had 20+ months to get their act together since the 2004 Gregiore "Count until we get the result we want" fiasco. Where KCE found ballots on 11 seperate occassions and the last ballot "found" as late as Dec 14, 2004.
So NO, I do not see this as a "mistake". But a calculated move to insure that, if an election involves King County only Democrats get elected.
So the integrity of the ballots has been compromised. What to do?
Ignore it - just go ahead and count them, assuming that the "chain of custody" held up, and this was just an innocent error. Result - stuffed ballots counted, Marcy wins.
Investigate it, but go ahead and count it all: Looks good to the gullible King County residents who don't seem to understand how poorly managed their county is. Result - Marcy wins.
Scrutinize the ballots, investigate those who turned them in, only count those ballots that can be 100% verified. Won't happen, but Reichert would maintain his lead.
You get what you vote for, and this county has been voting for liberal Democrats for a long time. Now you have to deal with the corruption and incompetence.
86. I was monitoring three (3x) polling places on e-day, and witnessed the mail-in ballot bag 'overstuffing' in-progress on the Eastside. There wasn't much the poll workers could do given their limitations. The biggest cause of this effect (IMHO) was the two-first-class-postage-stamp requirement for returning mail-in ballots. Many, MANY voters decided to return their mail-in-ballots to the polling location (free) rather than spend $0.78 out-of-pocket to vote. This effect was exaggerated by radio hosts' continuous reminders to 'take your ballot to ANY polling location'.
In all cases, poll-workers accepted all mail in ballots, and kept a good trail of custody on them. The requirements, the ballots had to be: a) sealed, and b) loaded in the side-slot of the AccuScan machine bins. Mail-in ballots are a different color from poll ballots, so if any were inserted into the 'scanner' deck, they would be re-sorted into the box containing mail-in ballots once the machines were opened at county voting headquarters. But the 'red-bags' poll-workers were using to hold mail-in ballots were: a) TOO SMALL to hold all mail-in ballots dropped off - 3ft x 10in x 8in, and b) ONLY ONE (1x) bag was provided for mail-in ballots per polling location. All the polling locations I observed had multiple precincts voting.
The other oddity I haven't seen mentioned in the press relates to the high number of provisional ballots. There were more provisional ballots cast than expected, and at least one polling location was running low on provisional ballots with 2 hours remaining in e-day.
One final note... an earlier response complained about Seattle voters putting their ballots into boxes in the Eastside. For mail-in ballots, that would be completely legal, and acceptable. Ballots mailed to Seattle voters did NOT show 8th district candidates on the ballot. (they showed Beren/McDermot).
Neutral Observer... the issue is not that Seattle residents were putting their absentee ballots in Eastside collection boxes. The issue is that Seattle residents were allowed to leave Seattle!
On a serious note, the procedures that used to be in place required that, at the end of the day, the polling judges would count the number of absentee ballots that lazy/cheapskate voters dropped off at the polling place. The total number got recorded on the transmittal sheet signed by the judges. If the overstuffed, unzipped, unsealed bags contain more absentee ballots than were recorded on the transmittal sheet, then something underhanded is being attempted. Remember, the primary security for validating absentee ballots, UNFORTUNATELY, lies at KCE headquarters, not in the polling place.
88. KC Elections: Vote Early and Often!
""If the bag is not sealed the ballots should not count."
So, if you cast your ballot correctly, and a poll worker made an error, you lose your franchise. Yeah, that's justice."
Yes, that is justice. Because in that case, the poll worker - and therefore King County Elections Commission - would be held responsible for that error. And then, in any normal world, KCEC would be forced to make changes so that this type of thing - a complete lack of ballot security - would never happen again.
But you advocate NOT holding anyone responsible, so our ballots are not only unsecure this election, but in all future elections. You're supporting and excusing the weakest link in the chain, rather than attempting to improve the system. And the system has had problems for years, hasn't it? For all the Democrats' reliance on Judge Bridge's decision - it did involve his recognition of THOUSANDS of illegal ballots, and rested on the fact that nobody could prove for whom the illegal ballots were tallied.
Do you always try to prop up systems and organizations that fail year after year? I suppose you probably liked the Monorail idea too.
"Say they count all the legal votes and Reichert wins (which I'll congratulate him on). Will that really make you happy?"
Actually, you could have stopped after the first seven words: "Sat they count all the legal votes." Yes, that would make me happy regardless of who wins.
If they count illegal ballots, and ballots that have no clear chain of ballot custody, and ballots that were unsecured after the election, would that make you happy, regardless of who wins? Isn't this the type of shenanigans that Democrats were yiping about in 2000 and 2004? Why don't you care NOW?
90. "... the procedures that used to be in place required that, at the end of the day, the polling judges would count the number of absentee ballots that lazy/cheapskate voters dropped off at the polling place. The total number got recorded on the transmittal sheet signed by the judges."
That is exactly the procedure that was followed Tuesday in the polling location in which I finished the day. I can't vouch for the two-other locations I was observing, but I had confidence in the poll judges at those locations. I was a little worried about the apparent 'relaxed' atmosphere at that final polling place, but they remained professional throughout the day, even though they were a bit relaxed about the time the polls opened (10 minutes early), and setting up the 'accessible' voting (Diebold) machine (2-1/2 hours late). They closed the polls exactly on-time, and all those inside by 8pm were allowed to vote.
My lingering concerns: If King County moves to all mail-in ballots, where will procrastinators go to drop off their ballots? [US Post Office] What will prevent over-zealous party workers (both sides) from aggressively collecting mail-in ballots from their known voters in the run-up to e-day?
Bob at 83: "Say they count all the legal votes and Reichert wins (which I'll congratulate him on). Will that really make you happy? You like his searing intellect? His tremendous legislation introduction? His incredible ability to bring solutions to problems? His lighting fast decision making?"
Yep. I like him better than any Congressperson who's represented me to date. So you don't like him. So what? I could care less. I don't know why you should care that I and others might be very happy to be represented by him.
92. Using the same percentages in Pierce County, it looks like Burner would have to win the remaining KC ballots by about 13% (56 - 43) to tie Reichert. Possible, just not likely. This considers that 79% of KC is counted (43,000 outstanding) and 63% of Pierce County is counted (18,000 outstanding).
93. Bob Brown - It was the Ds that brought suit in FL, it was the Rs that appealed the result.
Paddy Mac - How can you tell if the ballot was cast correctly if it is in a container that was tampered with, or seals broken etc.? There is no way, so therefore it should not count.
The effected voters could be notified (as in theory they do with bad signatures) to have them verify their votes.
Allowing bags full of tampered votes is not democracy!
"KS - You create a revisionist history that underscores why you and your party want to see legal republican votes counted more than legal democrat ones. The prejudice was against the party bringing the suit...oh yeah..that was REPUBLICANS. I know, if you say a lie enough people will believe it. Rove was very good at that for 6 years....but the people got a little smarter after a while. Thank goodness for our democracy they did!"
Bob Brown. Seems like you love to say a lie enough so that people will perceive, as your comments have been doing - that makes you the revisionist historian, dude. I challenge you to go back and reread the transcripts of the Governor's election trial and you will find that I am correct about what he said about the culture of KCR & E. So f**ing what !
This so-called prejudious is in your imbalanced imagination. BTW - I am not a Republican - I am independent and vote for the best candidate, which Dave Reichert was. I voted for Democrats too, which should eliminate one of your talking points.
Please name the politicians from this state that have a "searing intellect." Please name the freshman politician from our state (or any state)that has "tremendous legislation introduction," and an ability to bring solutions to problems. My guess is that you won't be able to because as able or ambitious as Reichert or any other freshman politican may be, they are usually not listened to simply for the fact that they are freshmen politicans.
Any politician campaigning on the promise of bringing "change," whether an R or a D, is simply full of BS if they will be a freshman legislator if they are elected. Their ability to "change" things comes with their increased tenure in the legislative body. If your arguement is that Reichert didn't accomplish anything in his first two-year term, then I think you are a misguided fool to believe that he really could accomplish anything of substance while a freshman legislator.
It would even be wrong to notify the voters whose ballots were in any broken or tampered seal bags. Now that everyone knows this is a close election, if a voter was allowed to recast their ballot based on some perception of being disenfranchised, they might well choose differently than they did on their original ballot knowing that now a few people have a far greater chance of affecting the outcome.
The only reasonable thing to do with ballots of unknown custody is to reject them and scold the poll workers and/ or KCE elections managers that failed to forecast the absentee ballot drop-off rate and created the problem.
It's pretty obvious to me . . .
The fix is in. Marcy wins.
99. Jeff B - I didn't mean to imply that they would be able to recast their votes, just verify that that is their ballot (and it doesn't show that they have voted anywhere else). I completely agree you cannot have people voting when partial results are known.
BTW, it is important to note that the ballots in question are absentee ballots. So, they still need to have signatures verified. The danger is that if registrations are being added to the database or the records are being updated, then there could be an out-of-sync condition with a given voter's registration record and the ballot. This happened in 2004. It's not fair to allow a given voter registration record to be updated after a ballot has been cast. The trouble is that the voter's signature is the means of authentication for a given absentee ballot. If a registration record is changed after the fact, then a new signature could have been put on the ballot, or an address could be changed to match a resident that had moved and should not be voting at the prior address. Theoretically, there would be the voter signature card on file with KCE, but all of that should be frozen from change along with the DB for all records during certification. That did not happen in 2004.
Freezing the voter database and all signature on file records from changes from the election to the certification would be a great way to prevent malfeasance. There's still the problem of a given voter's signature changing over the years, and that's why ultimately, there should be a better form of authentication than a signature used. But that's certainly not going to happen any time soon. If I recall, KCE claims that they are too busy to freeze the database because they need to continue to process registration changes. I can't see how they could be so busy with registrations changes or updates during the post election, pre certification process. After all, isn't that when they should be busy counting and tallying votes?
It would be great to simply have the database put into a read-only state during the post election phase. They keys to reactivate writes could be held in escrow with the SOS or similar. There are lots of simple process improvements that would go a long way towards establishing high voter confidence.
101. Stefan has reported that recently counted KC ballots are more favorable to Reichert than earlier ones. If this trend continues, will all you conspiracy theorists cite that as proof that there is a Republican mole in KC Elections who is fixing the ballots?
it's not conspiracy. more like reactions to a series of laughable, repeated and serious errors. just going on a proven ACTUAL track record. complete with 'reform' promises of yore. if this was an 'R' office, i'd rant just as loud to can the incompetents. believe me or not, dosent matter. actions are out there. KCE office did not yet fix things.
Jeff says There are lots of simple process improvements that would go a long way towards establishing high voter confidence.
Jeff, the goal is not voter confidence, but voter satisfaction. There is a difference.
#101 No, as long as 'extra ballots' aren't found. The thing the Democrats fail to consider going back to Dino is that KCE kept finding more ballots after every count. On top of that, they couldn't account for the extra ballots since the ballots exceeded the voters in several instances.
So, to answer your question, if KCE starting 'finding' ballots in Reichert favorable precincts the counting would come into question. If the ballots continue to trend at approx. the same percentages for each county as they stand now there wouldn't really be reason to consider the count invalid.
"What would Democrats do without ballots of questionable provenance?"
I dunno... Can't appeal to the Supreme Court like the Repubs in Flodida.
106. Looks like Pierce posted some more results. Reichert is now up a little over 4,000 votes.
107. King County has posted also. Reichert is now AHEAD in King by 9 votes. Up about 4700 overall.