From The Star of Grand-Coulee, Oct. 4
State Rep. Cary Condotta Thursday mentioned details previously not public about a "radical" new tax plan being designed for the state that would eliminate property taxes.I note that the lack of an income tax is one of the arguments for retaining the estate tax. But if I-920 is defeated and the estate tax sticks, I would still expect the usual suspects to argue that we need both income and estate taxes. Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at October 19, 2006 04:52 PM | Email ThisThe 12th Legislative District Republican said he and the majority chair of the House of Representatives Finance committee, Rep. Jim McIntire of Seattle, a Democrat, are working with the governor's staff on new possible models for a dramatically different tax system for the state of Washington. All of them would at least lower property tax and introduce an income tax.
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The plan most favored at the moment would eliminate property taxes and lock them out with an amendment to the state constitution, an issue on which voters would have the final say. It would also introduce a simple income tax that "could be filed on a postcard," Condotta said.If it passed, Washington would be the only state with no property taxes. Now, some 30 percent of the state government's revenue comes from property taxes. And more than 2,300 taxing districts in the state collect property taxes, from school districts to hospital, fire, parks and even cemetery districts.
Those local taxes could be still be levied, but the state would not collect property tax.
What I hope they do is get rid of the sales tax. just have one state tax on individual and corporate income. No sales tax, no B & O, nothing. just a state income tax either progressive or flat.
Local jurisdiction could still raise revenue for services through property taxes and would receive a portion of the income tax.
You would think R's would like it because it would help business and actually make it harder to raise taxes due the higher visibility of income taxes.
Posted by: Giffy on October 19, 2006 05:13 PMI'm paying $1.96 for gas, and the roads actually get maintained, and schools actually get built, and they're considering year-round school. And no Critical Areas Ordinance that steals my property.
It'll be nice to actually live in a Republican state for once in my life, and get out of the Socialist Republic of Washington State. Thanks for nothing, Democrats (and Cary Condotta).
To Huh@5 -- you nailed it.
Posted by: Doug Timpe on October 19, 2006 05:16 PMIn order to make this work, the state would have to do the following: eliminate ALL property taxes with a constitutional amendment, implement an income tax with a constitionally set maximum limit like 10%, set up state, county, and local budgets that show essential services like police, fire, roads, and education are adequately funded with the real revenue stream, not some "projected" nonsense, tell the sports franchises to either foot the bills or move, eliminate the personal property tax and B&O tax on businesses, and set a constitutional limit for levies at state, county, and local levels that would require a supermajority vote to allow a time limited increase.
MIchigan voters repealed the sales tax on food many years ago because many believed the hype about lowering the overall tax burden, blah, blah, blah. The governor (a conservative) asked the voters to turn down the proposition because he said the legislature was just going to turn around and raise the state income tax. The press portrayed him as a pessimist and going against the will of the people and persecutor of the downtrodden, etc. But guess what happened after the sales tax on food went away? The state income tax was increased because of "pressing needs" (read: welfare captial Detroit needed more money). And the increase was far more than what people were paying through tax on food. Raise your hand if you are surprised.
Posted by: Burdabee on October 19, 2006 05:17 PMfollow the bouncing ball VEEEERY carefully...nothing is free...no legislator EVER gave up a tax without a substitute tax to replace it...very few legislators have the 'almonds' to cut programs...
my opin--dump the WA B&O now. make us competitive with NV or other low tax neighbor states and try LOW taxes & tax cuts--we are competing with our neighbor states and the world--
let's make our state a "haven"--i'm confident it will be MORE than made up in volume and investments.
Ireland and Singapore used to have 10% rates--and you ask why business was moving & outsourced? i saw this first hand in strategic planning meetings in corp USA--simple--encourage business HERE and we all rise with the common sea level.
Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on October 19, 2006 05:44 PMCertainly seems like something we should be discussing anyway.
Posted by: RBW on October 19, 2006 06:51 PMHere's a better idea: reform govt., prioritize spending, & lower the property tax rates.
Posted by: AP on October 19, 2006 08:19 PMFIRST: Full disclosure: Along with Rep. Mike Armstrong, Rep. Condotta is MY 12th District Rep.
Anyway: I have talked to and emailed Rep. Condotta many times, and met him in person at the Capitol and at other venues in Olympia (he is a frequent attendee at the yearly WA Farm Bureau Legislative Days). I am convinced Rep. Condotta is a genuine and thoughtful conservative, who tries to do what he can to get something worthwhile done in the real world; i.e.:
Remember that the (D)s are (sadly) still in the majority in BOTH houses of the Legislative.
Also, note a key phrase that Stefan quoted from The Star (SIDEBAR: It is a VERY small newspaper):
''.... on new possible models for a dramatically different tax system for the state of Washington.''
I don't have any problem with my Legislators exploring possibilities with the (D)s, and I'm willing to take a look at whatever final product actually hits the street (if anything does). And if I don't like it, I will vote NO.
Don't have time to explore and think this thru in detail right now, so I will just throw this out for consideration FWIW:
There are places in WA even OUTSIDE the core Puget Sound urban area where property values have absolutely gone thru the roof in the last few years (an UNDEVELOPED one acre lot in the Upper Methow Valley Edelweiss development sold in 2005 for $100K).
Especially in places like the Methow, where there is a mix of wealthy Microsofties & etc. moving in along with long-term residents who want to retain a rural life-style, skyrockting real-estate values and resulting property tax increases are a real threat to long-term stability.
So while I have a general distaste for a potential income tax, I also have serious and growing concerns about the structure and burden of property taxes in this State. I don't claim to have a good overall solution, but I also know that I like what we've got less and less.
So I can at least agree that our tax structure needs to be looked at. It's my read that ''looking at it'' is all that Rep. Condotta has agreed to do so far, and I've got no problem with that.
I will give money... a LOT of money... to take this guy and any other "Republican" that supports this crap out of office. I will RAISE money to take him out, personally, if this thing ever sees the light of day.
People. becoming democrats will never get this state back on track. Never.
And if Condotta supports this and calls himself a Republican, with apologies to the William Wallace character, I’m ashamed to call myself one.The basic problem with imposing an income tax in exchange for a supposed/promised reduction in other taxes is it's too easy to ramp those other taxes back up. Bit by bit. A little bit here. A little bit there. And 10 years from now, all (ALL) your taxes are at the same level they were before the income tax AND you've now got an income tax.
Bad move, Cary. You're supposed to be in favor of reducing taxes ... not working on a D-supported lightbulb switch.
Posted by: jimg on October 19, 2006 09:18 PM1.) If you are a renter, or rent any spaces for storage, boat moorage, business, etc, do you think that a 20% reduction in your landlord's property taxes would be passed on to you in lower monthly rent enough to fully compensate you for what you would pay if a 10% income tax on all income you earn were adopted?
2.) If you are a homeowner do you think that a 20% reduction in your real estate taxes landlord's rent would lower your monthly rent enough to compensate you for a 10% income tax that you would be paying?
3.) Do you think it would stay or be capped at 10%
4.) Do you feel the state needs another 10% of all incomes in this state along with the current Billion plus dollar surpluses along with all other taxes passed this year?
Just wondering...Let's take a poll
No No No No
Be sure and tell State Rep. Cary Condotta what you think of a state income tax
360-786-7954
condotta.cary@leg.wa.gov
Posted by: GS on October 19, 2006 09:36 PMIf they are able to completely eliminate the property tax, including county and local taxes and levys, then every taxing district or authority must go to Olympia and beg for money.
The Queen and the legislature will then dispense the tax money according to their whim.
When the sole taxing authority is vested in Olympia we can expect never ending tax increases.
After all, it's only "fair."
Posted by: Obi-Wan on October 19, 2006 10:06 PMskyrockting real-estate values and resulting property tax increases
Can we put this fiction to rest? Unless your property has increased dramatically relative to your neighbors there is only one reason property taxes should increase: Increased spending. Everyone looks at the increased taxes and goes: "Well, my property went up, so ok." So did everyone else's property. So unless the government started spending more money you taxes should change very little.
Now I agree the opposite usually happens, but that's because no one questions it. If the rate never changes and all the housing jumps 16%, guess what happened to the budget. You know, the budget that suddenly isn't enough?
Posted by: Ryan on October 19, 2006 10:15 PMI think Mike McGavick should cut a TV ad, and come out against THE STATE INCOME TAX as proposed by the DEMS in OLYMPIA. Whats he got to lose? What would happen if Cantwell just remained silent on this issue?
Seattle wing-nuts, in effective control of ground water on the peninsula, southern Pierce county, northern Snohomish county and eastern Washington, and in effective control of rural land in King County and in control of counting ballots, now want access to your income through an Income tax.
What have they done recently to earn our trust?
Voter turn out in East KC and East WA has not been substantially higher than County or State averages respectively, yet. Not turning out means Seattle wins.
Doug T. Hope you don't go. We would miss you.
I heard Jim McIntire speak at 46 LD Dems meeting earlier this year. He and another fella did a great presentation.
One thing I didn't realize is how regressive WA's tax structure is. The tax rate really isn't the big issue. We pay less than other PNW states.
The three real problems with WA's tax structure is: it's regressive (which is fine if you like punishing the poor, sick, and elderly for being less fortunate), it's volatile (which makes planning kind of tough), and the B&O tax is retarded (unless your goal is to discourage new businesses in WA State).
I encourage everyone to read the study cited above: http://dor.wa.gov/content/statistics/WAtaxstudy/wataxstudy.htm
Posted by: zappini on October 19, 2006 11:17 PMzappini - sales tax is a regressive tax, I've never understood why so many Ds like it so much, other than it is easy money and they care more about their special projects than fairness or the 'little people'.
Posted by: Right said Fred on October 20, 2006 07:39 AMDon't kid yourself; the remaining part of the property tax plus an income tax will be far more than the current tax collection.
I like the sales tax because it catches those in the underground economy (ie, cash society) who don't pay other taxes. In fact, if they want to raise taxes, the easiest & most efficient way would be to put the sales tax back on food and other items that are now exempt.
Posted by: Clean House on October 20, 2006 09:58 AM