September 19, 2006
Tunnel of Funny Money

Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels, August 31:

we have the financial means and the technical know-how to build a cut-and-cover tunnel along our waterfront.
This assumed, among other things, that the Port of Seattle would kick in $200 million. But today we read that the Port
has not yet committed money toward construction of a tunnel to replace the Alaskan Way Viaduct and won't until after next year's budget review
Meanwhile, Erica Barnett of The Stranger reports that the state DOT's soon-to-be-released revised cost estimates are expected to show dramatically higher costs for the tunnel and other Viaduct replacement alternatives.

Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at September 19, 2006 09:42 AM | Email This
Comments
1. I'm curious. Doesn't the Port of Seattle collect property taxes from KC, or at least Seattle?

If so, where is their $200 million coming from, operations or taxes? Would this be sort of like a "back door" tax for the viaduct?

Posted by: SouthernRoots on September 19, 2006 10:19 AM
2. Hmmm?! Estimates are going to be higher? Who'd a thunk?!

Posted by: Jeffro on September 19, 2006 10:19 AM
3. It is obvious that Nickels and and assorted council members are lying to the public about the cost and feasibility of the viaduct replacement alternatives. How soon will it be time for demonstrators take to the streets at City Hall, Hungarian style to show their displeasure?

Posted by: Paddy on September 19, 2006 10:20 AM
4. Much like the monorail boondoggle, the backers of the tunnel option know that all they have to do is start the digging and then the project must move forward despite whatever inevitable cost overruns occur, and the public is on the hook for the bill. Knowing this, these people will do or say anything in order for this option to be chosen - deny public votes, say money is there without proof, whatever.

Posted by: Palouse on September 19, 2006 10:25 AM
5. Greg Nickels --

:::Finance Chair of ST in 1996 - gave some lowball cost estimates and now ST's finances are a smoldering, black hole crater (with neverending taxes);

:::Signed the "Statement For" SMP on the ballot in 2002 - gave some lowball cost estimates and SMP's finances turned into an "intergenerational debt" nightmare (with neverending taxes, mercifully killed by a dramatic intervention from Olympia);

:::Floated a neverending city property tax idea (for "street repairs") that would have diverted money to King Street station upgrades to benefit Sound Transit (plan now somewhat scaled back because everyone has his M.O. figured out now);

:::Says "we've" got money for the tunnel, no reference to who pays what.

See a pattern yet? Question for Greg: OK, big guy, exactly WHICH neverending taxes on WHICH citizens are the sources for this tunnel money?

Posted by: incredulous on September 19, 2006 10:28 AM
6. What is wrong with the retrofit?

Posted by: swatter on September 19, 2006 10:31 AM
7. How about the push by city council members to make it illegal to rebuild the viaduct. These people are all a bunch of childish brats that will keep throwing tantrums, telling lies and crying until they get what they want. GROW UP NICKELS!!!!!!!!

I thought the viaduct was supposed to have collapsed by now and that the 520 bridge would sink any day.

Posted by: Jeffro on September 19, 2006 10:34 AM
8. Two words, folks...just keep repeating them to anyone who mentions this project. "Big Dig...Big Dig...Big Dig!"

Posted by: suzihomemaker on September 19, 2006 10:40 AM
9. The daily zero is reporting all of the DOT projects are going to cost more as well.

Due to among other issues--- labor costs...

Would an apprentice program be a contributor here.

Posted by: Andy on September 19, 2006 10:47 AM
10. If they build a bridge across Elliot Bay or a tunnel, then a toll should fund those projects.

If a toll is good enough for the barbarians of Pierce County and the Narrows Bridge project, then a toll is good enough for the snobs of Seattle.

Posted by: Libertarian on September 19, 2006 10:49 AM
11. Reduce the costs, use non-union labor. We saw the results of union labor (see 8 - suzihomemaker)

Posted by: Fred on September 19, 2006 10:50 AM
12. (overheard Mayor Nickels at a Starbucks)

...I see marble support collumns, wall tiles of precious gem stones, and lanes divided with stipes of $100 bills...the brilliant colors dancing off the hand rubbed laquer black gloss of my gas guzzling limo.

Libertarian-
Not sure I agree with the barbarians comment regarding Pierce County, happen to know 2 or 3 that aren't. As for Seattle snobs, please add "elitist liberal" to Seattle snobs. Thanks, JC

Posted by: Jeffro on September 19, 2006 10:58 AM
13. Sorry I'm offering only sarcasm to the discussion, but the fact that a tunnel is even being considered is such an effing joke that you either laugh or cry.

as an earlier poster mentioned, as soon as the first shovel of dirt is cast, we've bought ourselves a new boondoggle.

Posted by: Jeffro on September 19, 2006 11:02 AM
14. The fix for this type of abuse is easy as making the supporters purchase a performance bond that covers any cost over-runs that exceed 10% of the estimate taht the project was sold as costing. If the estimate is within reason the bond will be affordable, if not they may have to mortgage their homes to purchase bonding. Make the supporters cary the risk, it's only fair.

Posted by: JDH on September 19, 2006 11:06 AM
15. It is amazing that a PhatAss Mayor with a lengthy track record of grossly underestimating large projects has the cajones to be the front-man for yet another con-job.
Part of me hopes Seattle is dumb enough to fall for this shell-game.
The LEFTIST PINHEADED KLOWNS deserve yet another transportation debacle.
After all, a Tunnel "feels" soooooooooooo good...no matter what the cost and consequences.

Wonder when the MSM is going to hold Nickles accountable for his miserable track record???
Try NEVER!!

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on September 19, 2006 11:09 AM
16. Sounds like Deanron 2 designed this project!

Posted by: GS on September 19, 2006 11:12 AM
17. Gee JDH...are you suggesting calling Nickles bluff and requiring HIM to actually put HIS money where is overfed mouth is??
Nickles is as determined to see this Tunnel started as he is to get the last Big Mac before Mickey D's closes for the night.

Posted by: dude on September 19, 2006 11:13 AM
18. "Wonder when the MSM is going to hold Nickles accountable for his miserable track record???
Try NEVER!!"

Nickels uses Sound Transit money to buy off the JOA partners. Since February of last year, the JOA has been paid nearly half a million dollars by ST for "advertising." The JOA partners are house organs for Nickels and ST; they'll keep milking that teat by making sure 1) ST's finances are never examined or criticized by reporters or editorial writers, and 2) they'll tout the "benefits" of the RTID/ST2 proposal incessently for the next year because THAT would provide a limitless supply of advertising dollars from ST going forward.

Posted by: Orotund on September 19, 2006 11:19 AM
19. Perhaps Nickles should be heretofore referred as:
The Round Mound of Tunnel Downtown

Posted by: ugh on September 19, 2006 12:10 PM
20. tunnel? viaduct? how about hiring that local glass guy, Chihuly? the 1% for art issue is solved; and--conservatives get what they want--"transparency" in a public project--literally--a huge glass one; worked for the library, didn't it? waterfront liberals get unobstructed (see-through) "views"; homeless can pee on something downright pretty (but not too discrete with full 360 clear views); graffitti kids caught easier; no place for muggers to hide behind clear glass pylons; sunsets light up the monster like a prism;

i wonder if the mayor undercuts or blows estimates when he buys personal cars, houses or other personal investments; bet not; only with YOUR money;

and Palouse is right; it's the "shovel extortion" of starting a project to force your way, then it's too late--poured concrete waits for no one; analagous to Jesse Jackson showing up at Boeing and forcing hiring practices. extortion any way you look at it;

Posted by: jimmie-hoywa-doin on September 19, 2006 12:27 PM
21. So...there's enough money for a VERY expensive tunnel, but there's none for education? Where are our priorities? Think of the children!

Posted by: pseudotsuga on September 19, 2006 12:50 PM
22. Actually these "estimates" are not estimates at all. They are a well orchestrated fraud protected by a court that has been compromised. There was a study done a couple of years ago that documented the serial underestimation of Public Works projects. When each and every one of the projects has been "underestimated" by a percentage that lies grossly outside of any contingency it is FRAUD. This study tracked every major public works project for a quarter decade and the estimats used to "sell" the project allways far from being in the ball park range. Actually if you were to pay strict attention to what is going on at University of Washington, Urban Planning majors ate taught how to lie, decieve and manipulate "public outreach" efforts in such a manor as as to reach a fore-ordained conclusion while giving the impression of fairness. It is a scandal and a disgrace that this continues.

Posted by: JDH on September 19, 2006 12:52 PM
23. You can't blame the Mayor for the dramatically higher costs for viaduct replacement options. The market is driving the costs. Prices from subcontractors have shot up about 20% over the past four to six months. This has caught all of the estimators on both public and private construction work off guard. All of our public works projects - even the modest and necessary projects - are going to have painful cost overruns.

Also, remember that concrete strike last month? That's going to have a big cost impact on all of our public works projects. At least the ones that use concrete.

Given the current construction climate maybe the only cost effective alternative is to remove the viaduct without a replacement.

Posted by: Sstar on September 19, 2006 12:57 PM
24. I think the tunnel and elevated structures are good ideas.

Posted by: henry on September 19, 2006 02:26 PM
25. I think the tunnel and elevated structures are good ideas.

Posted by: henry on September 19, 2006 02:27 PM
26. I like elevated structures and tunnels too! Elevated structures and tunnels for everyone!

Posted by: Huh? on September 19, 2006 02:54 PM
27. Sstar--fine--bid out to non-unions; abolish prevailing wage; get the fat-arses in Seattle/WA to DC to lobby for fed $$; no sales tax on construction;

yea--i remember the strike--just like the near garbage strike--again--a handful of people halted everything for thousands; yea--that's progress; libs--the death of us yet...

Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on September 19, 2006 03:46 PM
28. Sstar-

Easily the least expensive, most practical and cost effective is to retrofit the existing structure. It's a GD highway that allows folks to create wealth for themselves and too much wealth for the government. Fix it and be done - NO TEAR DOWN - NO TUNNEL - NO BRIDGE. Just the same old grey highway that's been there for years.

Maybe glue a little more steel on the sides and throw some GD flower planters and tree boxes on the damn thing.

henry likes everything - he'll take one of each.

Posted by: Jeffro on September 19, 2006 03:52 PM
29. The construction cost increase is almost entirely market driven. Too many construciton projects and subcontractors who are spread thin. They have more work than they can handle right now. Why not shoot the moon when bidding contracts?

The concrete strike was a brilliant move by the the union. Concrete is a real choke point in construction. You can't make it in China and ship it here. You couldn't even get it from Everett or Tacoma during the strike. Non-union batch plants wouldn't risk sending trucks all the way into Seattle just to have the concrete cure in the truck en route. Total nighmare for construction.

Posted by: Sstarr on September 19, 2006 04:02 PM
30. Sounds to me like we can't afford either a tunnel or a new elevated structure. Looks to me like everybody in Olympia has been wrong about this in promoting both.

It appears that the only reality here is to take down the Viaduct and make things work with what's left.

Save the rest of the money that would otherwise be spent - and all the delay that could result from this upcoming freeway war - for things that can get done in a reasonable timeframe at a reasonable cost.

Posted by: thor on September 19, 2006 06:01 PM
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