May 18, 2006
School choice, anyone?

I'm sorry to learn that David Goldstein's daughter's school is one of the Seattle Public Schools listed for closure this week. I'll take his comments at face value that this was a good school that was working well for many of its families. I don't know the ins and outs that went into the School District's decision to close this particular school. But whether or not it was the best decision in light of all of the factors that were weighed for all of the district schools is beside the point. Even if this was somehow the best decision for the district as a whole, a lot of families are will have to find other schools for their children. And even if the District reconsiders and decides to keep this particular school open, other schools are going to close and a lot of families will have to find other schools for their children.

David is obviously a parent who cares about his daughter's education and I wish him well in finding a good school for her in the fall.

Some of David's conservative readers are gloating about this in his comments. I would not gloat about this. This is not about David, it's about his daughter. However, I will be interested in seeing how this experience might eventually lead him to revise his opinions of charter schools, vouchers and other proposals that would give more parents more choices for their children than they're getting from the government school monopolies. Even if David maintains his ideological commitment to the current paradigm of "public education", I hope he'll at least be more sensitive to the concerns of all of us other parents who do not feel well-served by the government-run schools and have chosen to advocate for competitive options.

Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at May 18, 2006 03:01 PM | Email This
Comments
1. I disagree that the conservative folks over at HA are gloating. Indeed, I think they believe the adage that a conservative is a liberal who's been mugged.

Goldstein has been mugged... by his own liberalism, by the folks he supported and put in office, by the system he and they perpetuate and by the mommy government they think is the answer to all problems.

Posted by: Cheryl on May 18, 2006 03:07 PM
2. A bolt of lightening wouldn't get that uber-leftist to change his position... on anything.

Posted by: Hinton on May 18, 2006 03:08 PM
3. Sorry, the complete adage is A Conservative is a liberal who’s been mugged BY REALITY...

and in its complete form is even more appropriate to Goldsteins situation.

Posted by: Cheryl on May 18, 2006 03:10 PM
4. Any time tough decisions are made, RIF at work, close schools, plants or any facility, it affects lots of people.

You cannot forestall a decision just because it upsets some people. Bottom line is you have to do what is best for the organization in question for the long haul.

In business; it is better to RIF 10,000 and stay alive than keep the 10,000, and die in 3 years and throw 100,000 out of work, killing the pensions etc...

At SCD they have to save money. No matter what they do people are going to be put out. That won't make it easier for Goldy's daughter or any other of those affected. For the the good of the school district some cuts have to be made.

Progress is a whirl of creative destruction. If we mandated that no one would be negatively affected we would be subsidizing coopers and wheelwrights.

Posted by: JCM on May 18, 2006 03:18 PM
5. The Seattle Public School system needs to go back to just having neighborhood schools.
This system was working fine before the powers-that-be screwed things up in the early-1980s (or was it late-70s folks?).
If your kid lives in West Seattle, he or she goes to Sealth or W.S.H.S. If they live in the C.D. they go to Garfield. If they live in Queen Anne or Green Lake they go to the local schools there.
Problem solved and you put all the less greenhouse gases into the atmosphere by shuttling these kids all over Seattle.

Posted by: Reporterward on May 18, 2006 03:55 PM
6. Actually Stefan, Goldy is as misguided as ever. Somehow Goldy has twisted this scenario and actually believes that school is HIS!!!
Goldy—
Plenty of Washington Schools suck worse than YOURS huh???
How is it YOUR school Goldy?????
Do YOU pay for all of it????
Goldy’s School??? I think not. It’s called a PUBLIC School, paid for with PUBLIC dollars of which only a tiny portion are YOURS Goldy.
Elected Officials have many tough decisions to make now and in the future. The longer they wait, the more difficult the decisions. I’ll bet if YOUR daughter didn’t attend that school YOU would be silent on this Goldy. It is YOUR daughter….but it isn’t YOUR school. It’s the PUBLIC’s school…..collectively.

The CHICKENS ARE COMING HOME TO ROOST IN WASHINGTON after years of runaway spending on education. This is a healthy cleansing of some of the BS spilled all over the place.

Grow up or pay up Goldy you cheap bastard.

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on May 18, 2006 05:41 PM
7. What's the old saying? A young man who is not a liberal has no heart. And an old man who's not a conservative has no brain.

David's old enough, and a parent and thus should exhibit more of the latter, but unforunately, he still seems to retain the youthful ideals of political compassion that in practice reduce everyone to the least common denominator.

It will be good for him to see the outcome of his incorrect ideas. And hopefully there is a happy ending for his daughter.

Posted by: Jeff B. on May 18, 2006 05:46 PM
8. This isn't directly related to the post, but am I the only one that is seeing special characters as funky combinations of odd symbols? It seems to affect apostrophes and colons at the least.

For instance, below this line should be an apostrophe
'

below here should be a colon
:

Sorry for the off-topic post.

Posted by: The Tim on May 18, 2006 05:48 PM
9. His David has morphed the school his daughter attends into HIS school, imagine for just a moment what KLOWNstein Elementary School might serve our youth??!!!
Owwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!
Perish the thought...
1) No Pledge of Allegiance and No Flags.
2) Group Hugs before every class.
3) Free-range TOFU and Sprouts for Lunch.
4) 3 hours of Marxism daily.
5) Environmentalism that includes absolutely ZERO hard science.
6) New Age chanting instead of music.
7) No right or wrong answers.
8) Self-esteem and team-building in place of PE.

KLOWNstein Elementary!!
Sounds like Goldy is becoming a proponent of School choice. Good.

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on May 18, 2006 05:49 PM
10. Okay, my post looks fine to me. But Mr. Cynical's post has a bunch of the weird characters, as does Cheryl's second post above.

Posted by: The Tim on May 18, 2006 05:49 PM
11. I'm betting that if you look at the seattle school district problem, not only will you find gross mismanagement, but you will also find the union. The union is willing to throw a few administrators and staffers under the bus in order to maintain their pay status.

I've seen small schools work - but everyone has to pitch in. The principal and librarian teach class, the teachers have lunchroom and playground duty. But that won't work for the union, and so the school must be closed and the student must be herded to another school, that is larger, and allows for teachers to be only teachers, and no one else can infringe on their turf.

That's why charter schools are anathema.

Goldy can stew in his own juices.

Posted by: Janet S on May 18, 2006 06:22 PM
12. "Goldy can stew in his own juices."

Ewwww! Disgusting visual!

Posted by: alphabet soup on May 18, 2006 06:35 PM
13. I doubt if Goldy gets it. His attitude indicates that he doesn't want to get it. To support charter schools would be giving into the conservative mindset - won't happen as he is a leftist ideologue. The rampant polarization of Dems (liberals) and Repubs (conservatives) has pretty much destroyed the notion of compromise and common sense.

Sorry about the closure with his daughter impacted, but refuse to believe that it will change his attitude one iota.

Posted by: KS on May 18, 2006 06:55 PM
14. Tinman,

Maybe it's because Mr. Cynical and Cheryl are weird characters?
Sorry. Too easy.
On a Mac, things look a bit odd font-wise for me too although on a PC, things are fine.
Sadly, there aren't email links to folks' for half of the folks' names. Command decision?

Posted by: Reporterward on May 18, 2006 07:32 PM
15. Maybe it's because Mr. Cynical and Cheryl are weird characters? -Posted by Reporterward at May 18, 2006 07:32 PM

Been talking to my kids, have you?

Posted by: Cheryl on May 18, 2006 07:51 PM
16. I cannot remember where I read this, but I wonder how accurate it is...

Seattle schools have half the number of students than they did about 20 years ago, but they almost the same amount of schools. Does anyone know if this is accurate?

If this is true, it would seem to indicate that class size reduction has been in place, but class size reductions seems to be an issue every contract year.

How much of the savings comes form the buildings and how much from staff reductions?

Posted by: SouthernRoots on May 18, 2006 09:00 PM
17. 2) Group Hugs before every class.

Oh, come on. Hating on group hugs isn't conservative. I kinda like group hugs.

Posted by: Cliff on May 18, 2006 09:01 PM
18. Maybe it's because Mr. Cynical and Cheryl are weird characters?
Posted by Reporterward at May 18, 2006 07:32 PM

HEY!!!! I resemble that remark.

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on May 18, 2006 09:11 PM
19. I'm on a Mac and I see no issues with weird characters. What browser? I'm running 10.4.6, Safari.

That's a great point about the unions. I think they are unwilling to allow their people to run schools more like a business. I've been in businesses where everyone was wearing many hats. In the private sector, you do what you have to do to get the job done at the right cost. There's no bitching about pay. That said, the number of schools may indeed be too many, but to Goldstein's point, don't cut the good schools where parents are trying hard to augment the entrenched attitude of unions and make the broken public system work. Instead, you go for the broken schools. Shut them down. Bus the students to the better schools where they will be better off anyway because people like Goldstein give a damn and are at least trying.

Amazing though that Goldstein can see these merit based ideas when they make sense for himself, but he's willing to sell everyone else down the river to get a more Progressive/ Socialist world. He's said it many times. He really believes in more government.

Posted by: Jeff B. on May 18, 2006 09:29 PM
20. A VERY interesting post (#94) on HA.

Apparently Goldy has left out a few relevant facts.

"The more I’ve thought upon this the more I’m inclined to comment. You see I had never visited your site Goldy until today, because I saw you front and center with the media afterschool. I was curious as to what your infamous blog would contain on this subject. I must say here that I like Goldy he is a witty, sarcastic, interesting person.

I’m curious, you mention the ethnically diverse environment at the school, but in actuality how diverse is your daughter’s classroom? The reality is that the Montessori program is 98% white in its make-up. The majority of the students at the school are in the Traditional program and that is where the ethnic diversity comes into play in the classroom. The Traditional classroom is 98% minority.

Further, of those members of the active PTA you speak of, how many are minorities? I would wager to estimate that only a handful fit that criteria. The ruling Montessori parents don’t care at all about the diversity of the school, unless it is to tout it to accomplish their goals.

I am the wife of a black man with bi-racial children, so I take significant umbrance at the diversity of this school being used as a pawn to garner the goals of a majority white, dominating, few. Yes the school is diverse, within one sector.

Further, the school district hasn’t decided what to do with the Montessori program, so your daughter may gain the same “quality” education that she currently is receiving, simply in another location. If anyone suffers from this move by the district it is the disenfranchised, ethnically diverse parent/student population within the Traditional program who are losing THEIR school, because of a few Montessori parents who see fit to push their agenda at the expense of others.

In my previous entry I noted that Traditional parents were not included in the PTA or in volunteering. It took me half of last year and continued attempts to volunteer to finally be allowed to do so, and that was only because the job didn’t fit any Montessori parents’ schedule and even then the sitting PTA President came in every week for 2 months to watch me to ensure that I did a good job. At a fall fundraiser, you, yourself, Goldy were guilty of alienating a Traditional parent. She came into “your” kitchen to volunteer to prepare the food for the evening and she was confronted by you as to who she was and why she was there. She actually works in the culinary field and as a parent simply wanted to volunteer her time. She felt embarrassed and harrassed and expressed to me after the fact that she wouldn’t be volunteering any more time as a result. She didn’t fit your normal crew of Montessori parents. Unfortunately, this has been the practice for years and thus has led to apathy on the part of the Traditional population.

It’s sad to say, but this school has brought this action upon themselves. One doesn’t see ones faults easily.

Commentby natsim— 5/18/06@ 10:56 pm"

Posted by: Danno2 on May 18, 2006 11:16 PM
21. I've heard of a study that tried to find correlations between school characteristics and educational success. They tested class size, money spent per student, and lots of other factors, but, surprisingly, none of them correlated with better educational quality except one: school size.

Here's a hypothesis: smaller schools have less bureaucracy. This leaves the teachers free to teach according to their own enthusiasm and creativity. It makes for flexible education solutions, and tailored, more individual exercises. This stimulates the students to get excited about the work.

So now they are closing Seattle schools. Since the number of students won't go down, this means the average school size will increase.

I predict this will lead to lower educational quality.

Here's an idea: let's buy some of the school buildings the school district vacates, and start some private schools...

Private schooling should be a booming sector very soon.

Posted by: Bruce Guthrie on May 18, 2006 11:48 PM
22. Those seeing weird characters, I had the same experience, and it has to do with encoding. For some stranage reason, Internet Explorer or possibly other browsers would not correctly pick the encoding scheme these pages use. If you are using IE, do View > Encoding > UTF-8, and that will solve the problem.

Posted by: C. Oh on May 19, 2006 10:36 AM
23. SouthernRoots has a good point. I had to dig back for an article I read a while back that talked about Seattle joining the upper ranks of childless cities and the impact that it had on the school district. This NYT article (reg. req.) mentions Mayor Royer's failed "KidsPlace" program to keep families in Seattle. It also throws the figure of $5K in lost tax dollars for each child that leaves the district.

Back in March, Connelly reported that from the 1960's to current year, Seattle's PS enrollment has dropped by 50%, with only a 20% reduction in facilities.

Frankly, only the willfully blind or the stupid wouldn't have seen this coming.

Even though we live in Seattle, We send our kids to school in Shoreline due to our experience with our oldest child. After three years in Seattle Public Schools, we withdrew him and homeschooled him for a year to repair the damage done by "whole language" and other trendy teaching crap. A year at home of good solid phonics and math and no social engineering does wonders for a child's educational development.

We moved back to SoCal for a few years to SE Ontario where our tiny school district was one of the best in the state. Upon returning to Seattle a few years later, we had to get a district waiver to send the kids to school in Shoreline. Funny thing is, SPS still wanted proof of address. I told the lady point blank, "Do you think I'd really lie about my address to get my kids into a Seattle Public School?"

These people really don't see their role in the decline. They still think they're doing a great job.

Posted by: Robert on May 19, 2006 12:46 PM
24. Robert, thanks for the link to Joel Connelly's article. I thought I had heard the numbers somewhere, but couldn't remember where.

Posted by: SouthernRoots on May 19, 2006 03:54 PM
25. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

Posted by: Organization Man on May 19, 2006 10:25 PM
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