I love a healthy public debate. Really. Like in San Bernardino. And, Seattle, too. The huge share of illegal immigrants to the United States who come from Mexico poses an elephant-in-the-living-room question about conditions in Mexico. When and how will Mexico eviscerate corruption and poverty, and create economic opportunity for more of its citizens, so they will not feel compelled to flee, often illegally, into the U.S.? The answer cannot be never, and no-how. In today's Seattle Times, letter writer Rachel Somers states:
Maybe the Mexican government is more resistant to change than ours. Perhaps they feel that their economy is so bad that they can't fix it....The Mexican system is broken, and until it is fixed, we'll just see more poor people coming to the U.S., where we already have a huge population living in poverty. We can't take everyone in. There aren't enough resources. I hope Hispanics start asking questions about the root causes of their situation instead of just blindly demanding rights. I hope they take some of this considerable energy and use it to make positive changes in their own country.
Finally, in today's Oregonian, realtor and State Representative Sal Esquivel of Medford pens a piece titled, "My First Generation Father: Come Legally Or Stay Home," that should be required reading for all Seattle media, and liberals.
Posted by Matt Rosenberg at May 07, 2006 12:58 PM | Email ThisTake all your 200,000 Minutemen & the Mothers aginst Illegal alien Immigrants that WANT THEM OUT.. HERE IS THE EASIEST SIMPLEST SOLUTION TO YOUR ISSUE.
GO TO WORK IN THE FARMS & MEAT FACTORIES THAT THEY WORK AND WORK INSTED OF THEM TO FEED OUR NATION AND TO EXPORT, like this You will be picking our food, and “THEY” THE ILLEGAL ALIENS WONT HAVE WORK , AND will go back home, Isint This what you want?
Posted by: Caring Human on May 7, 2006 01:36 PM
"THE WORLD HAS CHANGED IN THE PAST DECADE!!
About Jobs taken by the SO called " Illegal Immigrants take from "Americans , this is not true, I had many Americans not wanting to work in my warehouse, for minimum wage, that is all that I could be give, due to competition from aboard, mainly the far east.
It is not the poor Illegal that comes to feed their family across the border for 4 bucks and hour, ( also if you pay 35 bucks and hour to for picking lettuce, think how much it would cost you to eat ?) then you would blame the government. Stop blaming either the government or the immigrant. Each person is to blame for their own success or failure. I am a Immigrant that came here Legally, I owned a corporation before I even landed in JFK, and my corporation employed 70 Americans. My question is simple, Show me an American willing to work for minimum wage?
The Corporations have outsourced the jobs overseas because of one thing, COMPETATION " HERE IS A SMALL BREAK DOWN, The countries in Asia basin are trading within themselves, Japan, Thailand, Singapore, Taiwan, Malaysia, Indonesia, Australia, New Zealand etc.. Europe, has UNIFIED and are trading within themselves, they have even made their monetary system unified the EURO Dollar. The Arab nation started dealing within their own countries, what's left is Africa who is a poor nation economically, They have many natural resources, yet they have to learn to come together and start using their natural resources. Then there is our Good Old USA:) Which I LOVE AND WILL GIVE MY LIFE FOR
. We cant compete because the Corporations are forced to show profits and meet the estimates on their stocks every 12 weeks, which dose not give them a long term investment strategy, the labor costs are high, heating, insurance, social security, the unions, leasing, Research & Devlopment, production costs are high, advertising, state, city and local taxes, Payroll, by the time the corporation finishes paying all these , there is nothing left to show as Profits, SO WHY SHOULD THE CORPORATION KEEP FACTORIES IN USA?? SHOW ME ONE GOOD REASON ? heck, Even FORD is closing factories and moving them overseas, that is what's HURTING AMERICA, "NOT" THE POOR MINIMUM WAGE IMMIGRANT,
There must be a change in our own perception, First We the People must be willing to roll up our sleeves and do what's needed to bring back our Nation on track, which might include, , learning the skills for today's job requirements, Learning skills that employers look for when they bring in one million Professionals every year.
What Can WE DO to KEEP Those 1 Million jobs here? moving to another state, Relearning new Skills,etc.. How can America start its new journey into the New 21 St century and be competitive? This is what we should concentrate on as a Nation. We have lost our world market shares and now need to Regain it FAST, Which will not be easy. Fighting over Immigration is not the answer to Americas woes, Building the proper Economic infrastructure for competing with the upcoming world economies, China, India, Europe. I know this that anyone that wants a minimum wage job will always find it. Those that want job security are looking at pink clouds, Those days are gone. THERE IS A FEARCE WORLD COMPETATION From upcoming nations that have over a billion low wage workers.
We must FACE the realities of TODAYS ECONOMICS and stop blaming others and other nations for hurting our economy, THE WORLD HAS CHANGED IN THE PAST DECADE!! Lets Stop The HATRED,We are a NAtion Of Compassion, Lets not forget that, and start looking for solutions. " Thank You , Caring Human.
Things that you should know & can easily check :
Bureau of Labor Statistics
According to forecasts based on data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the domestic labor-force must expand over the next few years in order for the United States to maintain at least 3 percent annual growth in its GDP. Since not enough people are being born to sustain this expansion, there's then a demographic challenge. The natural candidates to fill the gap are immigrants.
Additionally, guest-workers and immigrants are good for the economy. With a low 4.7 percent unemployment rate, current workers, including illegal migrants, have been clearly absorbed by the labor market. And guest-workers who work for lower wages keep costs down, passing the benefit to consumers. Immigration isn't all blissful: Unlike commodities, newcomers bring cultures and hence potential complications, which is partly why assimilation and accommodation are essential. On the whole, however, immigrants bring many benefits.
Although restrictions are necessary and punishment is needed for those who have broken the law, the case for welcoming new guest-workers and regularizing the status of illegal immigrants is compelling. It has to do with growth and competitiveness.
The debate on immigration reform shouldn't be about ethnic identity, voting blocs or entitlements. We'd be far better off by turning to hard work, opportunity and prosperity. That's what immigration has brought to America and that's what it can still contribute by setting the sight on the future.
Economics of immigration reform
By LAWRENCE K. FISH
The Providence Journal
05-MAY-06
The U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee's recent efforts to develop a broad revision for our nation's immigration laws was welcome _ and long overdue. This makes the Senate's failure to put forth a bill for passage particularly disheartening.
What must not be lost in our country's politicized debate on illegal immigration is the enormous, positive role that undocumented immigrants play in our workforce, and the impact that they have on our economic growth.
The bipartisan bill forged by Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., and John McCain, R-Ariz., provides hope to the 11.5 million undocumented immigrants in America, and the long-term future of our economy may depend on its passing.
Almost all sectors of the American economy _ banking, health care, education, service sector, construction and high technology _ have prospered in part because of immigrants.
Certain segments of the workforce are dramatically dependent on currently undocumented workers. According to the Pew Hispanic Center's study on the "unauthorized population," 29 percent of all roofers, 27 percent of all butchers, 26 percent of all maintenance workers, 24 percent of all farmers and 17 percent or all food-preparation workers are undocumented.
Has this job growth come at the expense of American workers? No. Over the past two decades, the increase in the immigration to America has been accompanied by a drop in unemployment, from 7.1 percent to 4.8 percent.
Immigrants are also the drivers of inner-city economic growth. A study by Prof. Michael Porter, of the Harvard Business School, found that half of the largest inner cities in America had job growth between 1995 and 2003.
The cities that lost jobs had many similarities to those that gained jobs; the one significant difference was percentage of immigrants in the community. On average, inner cities that gained jobs had populations that were 31 percent immigrant, while those that lost jobs had populations that were just 12 percent immigrant.
Porter noted, "Immigrants clearly and more readily identify the unique business conditions and opportunities that inner cities can offer, and are able to capitalize upon them."
The Latino population's effect on small-business growth is another example: In 2005, the U.S. Small Business Administration estimated that small businesses employ half of all private-sector employees and have generated 60 to 80 percent of net new jobs annually over the last decade. Data from the 2000 Census shows that Latino-owned businesses grew at three times the national rate from 1997 to 2002.
All told, according to the Census data, there were almost 1.6 million Latino-owned businesses generating $222 billion in revenue in 2002. The Pew Study estimates that the percentage of undocumented workers who are Latino is 78 percent of the total of all undocumented workers.
Just think of the profound entrepreneurial possibilities if those workers had full citizenship with enhanced access to capital and more substantial social networks.
As a banker, I can't help but see the opportunities in and for the immigrant community. Overwhelmingly, today's immigrants are savers, though often in untraditional and economically inefficient ways.
As of 2005, only 45 percent of Latino immigrants had bank accounts, and because of it they often lack critical access to credit and capital. This is a huge lost opportunity both for the financial-service industry and to the would-be immigrant entrepreneur.
Immigrants also take great pride in their ownership of homes. According to a 2001 study on home ownership by Georgetown University's Institute for the Study of International Migration, immigrants are three times as likely to value home ownership as their native-born counterparts, and yet only 49 percent of America's foreign-born population actually own a home, as opposed to 74 percent of native non-minority Americans. Again, an enormous unrealized opportunity.
At Citizens Financial Group, more than 13 percent of our 26,000 employees are bilingual, most of them speaking English as a second language. Employees at our Citizens Bank and Charter One branches in 13 states speak at least 75 different languages among them.
In Quincy, Mass., predominantly Irish 30 years ago, we speak five dialects of Chinese. If we didn't speak Spanish in the Pilsen community in Chicago, if we didn't speak Portuguese in Framingham, Mass., if we didn't speak Vietnamese in the Eastwick neighborhood of Philadelphia, we would be missing enormous business opportunities. It is profoundly important that our branches look, sound and feel like the communities they serve. It's simply good business.
By providing citizenship and lawful employment in a safe way to millions of undocumented workers and offering work visas to hundreds of thousands of new guest workers on the road to citizenship, proposed immigration-reform legislation can provide powerful economic stimulus. It will have a profound positive economic effect to move undocumented workers fully into the official economy and entirely onto the tax roles.
A 2005 Congressional Budget Office paper on the role of immigrants in the labor market underscored the growing importance of immigrant labor as the Baby Boom generation approaches retirement. As our native-born labor pool shrinks through retirement, thoughtful immigration reform is necessary to meet this demographic challenge to our nation's workforce.
We need undocumented immigrants to be legally welcomed, and to succeed. If these newcomers succeed, we all succeed. The prospects for long-term prosperity and growth for America depend on it.
Congress should act and act decisively to enact immigration reform of which we can all be proud and from which we can all benefit.
(Lawrence K. Fish is chairman and chief executive of Citizens Financial Group Inc., based in Providence, R.I., and the 8th largest U.S. commercial-bank holding company.)
The reason we cannot give away citizenship is simple. Its called fairness, equity, and common coutesy. America stands for many things, but above all other things it stands for equality under the law.
As an immigrant I appreciate the difficulty and hard work that goes into coming to this country and following the rules. The granting of amnesty to skofflaws is a slap in the face of the millions who have gone through the naturalization process the hard way.
Don't get me wrong, I support making it easier for people to immigrate. I even think a plan to legalize the illegals is not without merit. But I bristle at the idea of allowing illegals to have a n advantage in applying for citizenship over folks who haven't broken our laws in getting here.
I say fine, let those now here illegally and willing to pay fines get a work permit, but they must go back and get in line if they want to stay here beyond the 3 or 5 years of a work permit. AND they do not get any advantage at citizenship.
America is the most generous country on earth. We support more humanitarian work overseas than any other country. We cannot however afford to raise the living standards of even our closest neighbors by allowing them to come here and send money home.
I suspect that if 10 million illegals went back to Mexico they would do more good for that country than harm. I would even favor giving them small business grants in return for leaving. Can you possibly imagine the changes these folks would make in Mexico when they demanded even a fraction of the rights we give them now?
Write your congressman and senator and demand that legal immigrants not be further insulted by another wave illegals that an amnesty will inevitably cause.
Posted by: deadwood on May 7, 2006 02:25 PMIf they want to work for 50% under market wages, I say let them, but don't come complaining about wages and conditions that Illegal immigrants brought upon themselves.
Farm work is the same way, its hard work, but plenty of legal immigrants are willing to do the work play by the rules.
Since Caring has obviously never done any of this type of work, perhaps should try to get a job at IBP in the Tri-cities, or go pick fruit in the Wenatchee Valley. First I hope he/she speaks Spanish because most of his foreman will be from Mexico. Second I think he/she will find that he will have a hard time getting hired because the perception will be that he/she cannot do the work
Posted by: Huh? on May 7, 2006 02:31 PMThe illegals are just trying to see how far they can get, since our so-called leaders have done nothing to enforce existing laws. In addition, the states need to stop paying out entitlements to them to decrease the incentive for them to come here. Make speaking English mandatory and stop printing out ballots for elections in languages other than English ! So if I am called a racist for espousing this view - I don't care/it's you who are the racists- how dare you invade our country illegally ! It's my country not yours, so shut up and if you want to live here, go about it the right way. We can respect immigrants being here - as they are part of what America stands for, if you respect our laws.
Posted by: KS on May 7, 2006 02:43 PMRead through the archives and find the post "Ignoratio Elenchi".
Don't feed the trolls.
Posted by: swassociates on May 7, 2006 03:19 PMMay my dad's and Mr. Esquivel's father's examples be heeded by the politicians when deciding how to handle current affairs.
Posted by: Michele on May 7, 2006 03:38 PMLegal immigration is one thing....this is an invasion!
Posted by: alphabet soup on May 7, 2006 03:47 PMI would go further to say that by withholding this type of employment from Americans (by virtue of paying the minimum wage and hiring fewer people or by virtue of paying illegal immigrants sub-minimum wages under the table)we are removing retirement income from senior citizens, depriving our younger people of the chance to develop a good work ethic and an appreciation of education, and depriving the developmentally challenged of a sense of purpose, productivity and self respect.
Posted by: Peggy U on May 7, 2006 04:07 PMThe BALLOT MEASURE SUMMARY states: This measure would require state and local government employees to verify the identity and immigration status of every applicant for non-federally mandated public benefits (including among others TANF, Medicaid, food stamps, WIC, and public housing). Identification cards, including driver’s licenses, issued without verification of immigration status would not be accepted to establish identity or eligibility. Failure to report immigration violations to federal officials would be a misdemeanor. Private suits to remedy violations would be authorized.
Posted by: Gary Preble on May 7, 2006 07:44 PM(clip, snip, cut, paste)
"Considered felons by the government, these migrants fear detention, rape and robbery. Police and soldiers hunt them down at railroads, bus stations and fleabag hotels. Sometimes they are deported; more often officers simply take their money." (Source AP 4/18/06 regarding illegal immigrants entering Mexico from Central America).
Does this equate to "friggen' racists" too?
Now, let's all sing that old Kingston Trio ditty, Merry Minuet:
They're rioting in Africa. They're starving in Spain. There's hurricanes in Florida and Texas needs rain.
The whole world is festering with unhappy souls. The French hate the Germans. The Germans hate the Poles.
Italians hate Yugoslavs. South Africans hate the Dutch and I don't like anybody very much!
But we can be tranquil and thankful and proud for man's been endowed with a mushroom shaped cloud.
And we know for certain that some lovely day someone will set the spark off and we will all be blown away.
They're rioting in Africa. There's strife in Iran. What nature doesn't do to us will be done by our fellow man.
It's a small world. My father came from Lima as well. So did all of his brothers, except for one... who is in Germany.
My father came to the US legally, moved into an house with other immigrants as part of an intensive English-learning program, joined the Army, (missed going to Korea by about a month), became a citizen and went to college on the GI Bill. He became an engineer.
He and his brothers were part of the generation of immigrants that believed that to immigrate to America was to become American. There was very little Spanish in the house, or in any of my cousins' houses, so none of my cousins borne in this country can speak Spanish. The only time we really heard Spanish in the house was when my father spoke on the phone with his brothers, and even then they were getting rusty, and lapsed into English. They wouldn't speak Spanish with just about anyone else... the Mexican dialect isn't quite compatible with Castillian Spanish.
The family funny story concerns what happened when my paternal grandparents came to the US to visit my father. He was in the middle of his English-intensive course, so he was trying hard to speak English, even with his parents, but he didn't have the vocabulary yet. As he mixed his Spanish words into English, his mother teased him, "Carlos no speak-a Spahneesh, Carlos no speak-a Engleesh, Carlos no speak-a nothing, nothing, nothing."
Of course, my siblings and cousins all baffled the race quota systems. We'd always truthfully respond, "Hispanic" for any request for our race. Me and all the rest of my pale skin, red hair, no speak-a Spanish relations. Every last one of us Americans, without hyphenation.
Posted by: gmcraff on May 7, 2006 08:39 PMTo use language that Bush, a recovering alcoholic, should be familiar with, how sad to continue to enable the dysfunctional government of Mexico and Mexican society.
Since I'm first willing to attribute their failure to recognize the gravity of the problem to something less than malice, I'll just say that it surprises me that a Harvard MBA, like the President, is unable to grasp the long term consequences of unrestrained immigration on the national fabric. Or, more cynically, that someone as "educated" as Mr. Bush, fails to realize that a nation, so culturally divided as will arise if immigration into this country is not controlled, cannot assert any sustained national purpose, leaves me wondering for how long Mr. Bush's happy meal has been short a few french fries.
Posted by: Cartman on May 7, 2006 09:36 PMBOUNTY'S SHOULD BE ON ALL THEIR HEADS!
Posted by: SP Fan on May 7, 2006 10:07 PMmore kids more benefits , we dont need group who just use welfare forever.
http://www.teamamericapac.org/
https://ssl.capwiz.com/nbpc/e4/browse/list/?state=AZ
go to :lawatchdog.com
Posted by: juk on May 7, 2006 10:31 PMOne question for ya.
What part of ILLEGAL don't you understand.
If these folks (illegals) want to come to america, like many of ancestors did, become true AMERICAN CITIZENS through the proper channels, more power to them. BUT DO IT LEGALLY.
"My question is simple, Show me an American willing to work for minimum wage?" This question is frequently asked by many people defending the invading army of illegal immigrants (voters).
The answer is simple:
Illegal immigrants (voters) represent about 5% of the work force.
Not to long ago teenagers during summer and spring breaks made money by picking crops. Unfortunately recent government regulations prevent teens from working in many jobs.
Currently 4% of the population is unemployed. Suffice to say that a number of unemployed people may be interested in working.
Illegal immigrants (voters) typically work in jobs commensurate with their skills. Industries that employ illegal immigrants (voters) include:
Landscaping
Janitorial
Personal Services
Construction
Manufacturing
American citizens are being forced to compete for jobs in these industries with illegal immigrants (voters)who frequently charge less because by avoiding taxes their pay is subsidized by government. In other words they net the same as a citizen costing an employer 15-35% more in taxes, insurance and benefits.
Illegal Immigrant working for $10 an hour - paid under the table in home construction is the equivalent of an American worker working for $10 an hour, plus employer paid taxes of 9% and L&I (WA STATE) of $1.00 an hour, plus medical insurance benefits of about $1.00 an hour, plus vacation pay of 38 cents. Cost to the employer for an American citizen is $13.28 per hour.
Annual cost based on 2080 hours is:
Illegal immigrant (voter): $20,800.
American Citizen: $27,622.40
That is a difference of 24%
The real cost to taxpayers is difficult to measure. For example an illegal immigrant (voter) goes to the emergency room for medical care. The local community picks up the tab. Previous posts to this website about Harbor View and other hospitals illustrate some of the costs and impact on medical care. An American citizen visits the doctor office. And their insurance rates goes up to offset the cost of care for the illegal immigrants (voters).
Immigrants are also the drivers of inner-city economic growth. A study by Prof. Michael Porter, of the Harvard Business School, found that half of the largest inner cities in America had job growth between 1995 and 2003.
The cities that lost jobs had many similarities to those that gained jobs; the one significant difference was percentage of immigrants in the community. On average, inner cities that gained jobs had populations that were 31 percent immigrant, while those that lost jobs had populations that were just 12 percent immigrant.
"Porter noted, "Immigrants clearly and more readily identify the unique business conditions and opportunities that inner cities can offer, and are able to capitalize upon them.""
Porter is confusing cause and result. Illegal immigrants (voters) like moths to a flame, migrate to cities offering the best opportunities. Suggesting that illegal immigrants (voters) with their limited skill sets build stronger economies is pure balderdash. For if that was true, then Mexico would be a thriving country.
Posted by: Snuffy on May 8, 2006 10:11 AMStudents at a public school in California took down the American flag and replaced it with the Mexican flag. Then they turned the American flag upside down and put it back up, below the Mexican flag. It makes me wonder what these kids are being taught. It certainly isn’t patriotism; oh I forgot, it isn’t politically correct for Americans to be proud of their country or worship God. In my opinion, this incident in California was a sacrilege to the memory of the thousands of Americans, of all ethnic backgrounds, who have died defending this country.
There isn’t a doubt in my mind that our enemies are coming across with all the others and they have made it clear that they plan to kill Americans at every opportunity.
Posted by: tyh on May 8, 2006 12:01 PM
I heard a thousands people in South Texas say that they knew of pregnant Mexican women,
on the other side of the border, who come across just in time to give birth to their child in the United States – thus making the infant an American. Then, after getting the child delivered free of charge, she goes back to Mexico.
Guess who’s paying for this type of activity folks? That’s right, YOU AND ME , legal American citizens of every ethnic heritage you can think of.
It seems to me that the May 1 protest by illegal aliens is just one more slap in the face of Americans and legal immigrants to this country. These folks are more or less saying, “We do not have to abide by your laws"
. Because there are so many of us, you can not do a single thing about it.
I saw one sign in the crowd of protesters that read, “Soon we will vote!” It is that threat which has politicians running scared. They are so terrified that the illegals will soon get to vote and they will remember the politicians who did not bow down to their demands. So, with this attitude, these so-called lawmakers are selling the “legal American citizens” right down the tubes.
After years of neglect, by Democrats and Republicans alike, the problem of our porous border with Mexico is coming back to haunt us. We have been flooded over the years with an influx of illegal aliens and no one seemed to care. I guess we can thank these lawbreakers for one thing; their recent demonstrations have awakened some Americans as to just how many of them are now in this country.
The estimated number by most illegals is around 12 million but nobody knows for sure, it could be twice that number.
Bush kennedy hillary mc caine,john kerry all is Traitor, most democrat demanding amnesty for scum bags illegals.
I will vote who patriot doing for legal citizens first NOT for third country.
Tancredo ,Lou dobbs ,O'really , Dana (CA) for candidate 08
Multi-lingual anything I have a BIG problem with, the official language of this country is ENGLISH, deal with it.
When I was growing up as a military brat, I was taught that it was RUDE to expect people in the countries where one was stationed to speak English. We learned the language and used it with dealing with locals or when we were off base. If I can learn German, Italian, Japanese and fwench(spit), they can surely learn English... I do, however, refuse to learn "spanish".
The only thing to say is look up "legal" in the dictionary, it is pretty clear. Anything else is fraud and a baseball bat in the face to those who did / do play by the rules and I will not stand for it. Without rule of law we are no more than an emotionally driven mob ruled by tyrants (looks a lot like Western Washington, mostly scabattle and king county).
I resent these invaders who send the money back to prop up a corrupt and hopeless government, go fix your own problems, don't bring them here!
With this crap going on, I have a friend with a terminal disease (MS) who can't even get a call back from Porchlight and is being thrown out of her apartment at then end of the month (wholly unable to do more than eat by herself). How many illegals are clogging that system when she REALLY needs help!
Work Americans Won't Do, what a steaming pile of crap...
/disgusted and, yes, angry.
Posted by: fox3 on May 8, 2006 01:10 PMI just wish all these American employers who want cheap labor would go to Mexico and help these people start their own business and open their own health clinics.
Wouldn't it be nice to see people wanting to live in Mexico and having their own schools with their Mexican culture instead of trying to come to our country and try to shove their culture down our throats!!
Other outrageous recommendations include retraining our public school teachers to instill a "North American identity" in our children. See page 30, where it says "Develop teacher exchange and training programs for elementary and secondary school teachers. This would assist in removing language barriers and give some students a greater sense of a North American identity. Greater efforts should also be made to recruit Mexican language teachers to teach Spanish in the United States and Canada."
These widely endorsed recommendations are actually mild compared to proposals by Trilateral Commission participants such as A North American Community and A Mexican Vision for North America. These documents call for a North American police force ("modeled after Europol"), N.A. Parliament (to “raise the sensitivity of American Congressmen”), N.A. passports, N.A. Customs & Immigration agents, N.A. Development Fund, etc.