From this evening's Seattle Times article about the illegal immigrant rally:
Evangeline Lopez, 20, a home maker from Federal Way, said as she marched that she hopes the efforts today will stop people regarding Hispanics as criminals.I'm tempted to call Evangeline to ask her what language the Conquistadors spoke at home before they learned Spanish from the Aztecs. Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at May 01, 2006 11:50 PM | Email This"If you look at it, it was Hispanics who were here before the Europeans," she said.
WHAT PART OF ILLEGAL DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?!?!?!
Posted by: SP Fan on May 2, 2006 12:09 AMDamn that Christopher Columbus.
Posted by: BigV on May 2, 2006 06:29 AMI am all for immigration. Legal.
Posted by: Shaun on May 2, 2006 07:47 AMAfter the world started to become civilized and borders were established, the majority of us emigrated here LEGALLY. That means filling out the proper paperwork and going through the proper channels (including health tests) and waiting our turn.
What part of this situation is equal to that?
Posted by: dan on May 2, 2006 07:48 AMIt is 3/5 money dat Evangeline Lopez, 20, Homemaker, has 6 kids under the age of 6 and is 3 months pregnant. She lives in Government housing just off 21st in Federal Way and her Hubby makes $600 a week in cash hanging Dry Wall. They drive a 2000 Chebby Impala that they bought at the auction for cash after saving all of there food stamps and selling them for ½ face value to Kim Lee Park at the Quike Mart.
Forgetaboutit
My remarks were to answer the claim that 'We were here first'. BS. Everyone here came from somewhere else.
While parts of my ancestry date back to the days of Capt. John Smith (hmmm was he LEGAL? Did he wait his TURN? Fill out the proper PAPERWORK?) and Pocahontas, others in my family tree, as you say, immigrated here LEAGALLY.
I was born here as were my parents and their's And up the chain.
Yet I was casterized for proclaiming myself as an American in 6th grade. Teacher asked 'What are you Native American?'
I was totally confused -- just how long must one be here to consider himself 'American'?
Fact of the matter is this is OUR land NOW. So don't confuse me with supporters of these 'protests' -- nothing is further from the truth.
Sorry if my ealier comment was vague. And similarly, I hope I am not misreading your remarks.
Posted by: NW Mike on May 2, 2006 08:24 AMYou should have answered that teacher in the affermative. Nativity has to do with birth not ancestry. Anybody born between the Aleution Ialands and Tierra Del Fuego is a native American. Either North American, Central American, or South American. As usual the political correctness police chose a political title not a proper linguistic title when they decided that American Indian needed to be scrapped.
Posted by: RBW on May 2, 2006 08:38 AMHeh -- This was in the school year '63 -- '64. PC was not a factor. Or was it? Funny part was some years later (well after high school) I learned that I am part American Indian.
Posted by: NW Mike on May 2, 2006 08:50 AM63? I graduated from high school in 63. I don't remember anybody using the term Native American back then. I thought that came a few years later. In the late 60s or early 70s. At any rate the question sure sounds like PC intimidation to me.
Posted by: RBW on May 2, 2006 09:15 AMNo one is truly a native of anywhere in particular, so-called native Americans or Indians had no claim over America unless they could hold it. They couldn't, they lost. They should be happy that the Spanish didn't keep hold of things. Based on any history written worth reading, the Spanish were far more brutal than the Englanders ever thought of being as the Spanish Encomienda (captive work farm) meant instant slavery to any native within its arbitrary reach.
Now Americans need to worry about having the ability to hold claim over their territiory. Liberals want to give it away to those who will help them turn it into a communist utopia.
Who the hell knows what we will actually do about it.
I think you hit it square on the head.
RBW,
Intimidated? You bet. Strange too, because she was probably the teacher I liked the most throughout my school days. But like you said, it didn't become the in thing until much later.
--Mike
Posted by: NW Mike on May 2, 2006 10:30 AMShe put "Native American" as race. In her naive understanding of English, words mean things, and our son certainly was born and raised here, so he is native.
I had to correct her. I wrote, "Refuse to answer. Leave blank." That's my race, that's her race, and that's my son's race.
One of these days, I'll probably fill in "homo sapiens" for race, or just, "human".
Posted by: Jonathan Gardner on May 2, 2006 10:48 AMAnd I realize a 6th grader isn't likely to challange a teacher's intimidation. Well at least not back in our day.
And Amused - everybody's a native of wherever they were born. That's what nativity is. Ever seen a bumper sticker that says "Washington Native"? What do you suppose that means. Member of a local tribe?
You say, "everybody's a native of wherever they were born.
Formally of course you are correct. However, given the abstract context of my remarks, what is your point?
That sort of quibbling formality in ignorance of the larger issue is meaningless especially where it acts to instill some pretense that an a priori "situational" instant equates impromptu into a legal right of primacy. Thinking this way is gratuitous, and naive.
The fact is, Hispanics don't possess American Territory today because they couldn't/wouldn’t hold it in the past. Partly they sold it, partly they lost it in battles, and partly they were assimilated by a superior culture that could hold it.
When filling out a form that asks for your race, you can check any box that you like. I've never seen a form that gives, in the instructions, a definition of any race to make it precisely clear which race you are. This is deliberate, since the creators of these forms have no definitions. I'm sure that if pushed hard enough, they would tell you that you are whatever race you consider yourself to be a part of. It's all a bunch of smoke and mirrors. If you want special affirmative action treatment, put down African American. That's what I always do. I'll put down whatever I want, unless the form gives an exact definition.
Posted by: PW on May 2, 2006 01:28 PMIt appears that you and I agree but we are saying the same basic things differently.
I said rhetorically that nobody's a native of anywhere because in terms of the broader question at hand, nativity is utterly irrelevant, most particularly where (as in the instant case) past generations are concerned. Has being born on American territory -- in itself -- always made one an American? Not unless they were born there after Section 1 of the 14TH Amendment of the U.S. Constitution was ratified in 1868.
In America, nativity provides one with possession of citizenship, but it only defines anyone in ways that don't really matter in comparison to the most important elements in this context; their association to national sovereignty, and their legitimate claims to citizenship through constitutional preeminence.
Earlier you expansively defined anyone born within the Americus as a native. Of course by nature they were a native of the ground upon which they were born. However, Spain and Mexico lost their claims to North America long ago and descendants of those no longer living are not entitled to any claim based solely on nativity prior to the incident of their birth.
The important element of this discussion is that those who are willing to do whatever must be done will get what they want. Illegal trespassers can become Americans if liberal America gets its way. Those of us who insist on consistent immigration policy and the rule of law understand that force is often what makes things happen and we are being forced to deal with idiots like Evangeline Lopez who believes that “Hispanics” have rights, but only -- because some of their ancestors were once born on American soil.
In this respect -- nativity is meaningless.
Posted by: Amused by liberals on May 2, 2006 02:43 PMHowever, if the offspring of Geronimo or Crazy Horse left America for Mexico before 1868, now comes here illegally and claims citizenship by birth, they are fu@ked unless liberal whackos have their way. In the alternative, if they could, liberals would probably give Geronimo and Crazy Horse's descendants a billion dollars in reparations and a stash of nuclear weapons to play with.
Illegal immigration -- the issue that will make or break the coming elections for Republicans.
Posted by: Amused by liberals on May 2, 2006 03:10 PMNative Americans and Naturalized Americans.
There's a process to becoming a Naturalized American. Those who go through that process are more than welcome here. Those who try to circumvent it need to be recognized as interlopers. Robbing natives of the first term and assigning it only to aboriginal tribes simply throws confusion into that argument.
That's the point of my original post.
Posted by: RBW on May 2, 2006 03:46 PMNext time I need advice about this here subjeck I will
seek your non-confused viewpoint.
Thanks for the c-l-a-r-i-f-i-c-a-t-i-o-n.
Are you new?
The mainstream media is also friggin' joke for printing this horses**t. The Aztecs were here first, along with the Native Americans. By the way, Hispanics are also Europeans when they first landed and they interbreeded with the native people (Aztecs, etc.) , which makes this article redundant and worthy of wrapping fish guts for the garbage
.
pls go to : TUBE VIDEO AZTLAN RISING
MEXICAN IS SCUM DEMANDING ALL AND OUR POLITICS COWARD WITH DRUG DEALER COUNTRY
STOP BENEFITS FOR ALL MEXICAN WE DONT NEED THEM GO BACK TO UR SCUM COUNTRY.
MOST LATINO CRIMINAL STUPID AND GREEDY
Posted by: gab on May 5, 2006 01:23 PMA retired border patrol agent shows some common sense. This letter sent to Tennessee Senator Bill Frist from a retired border patrol agent, and it has more common sense than all the bull being spewed from the Senate, with the exception of a few sensible representatives.
Dear Senator Frist:
There is a huge amount of propaganda and myths circulating about illegal aliens, particularly illegal Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan and Honduran aliens.
#1.
Illegal aliens generally do NOT want U.S. citizenship. Americans are very vain thinking that everybody in the world wants to be a U.S. citizen.
Mexicans, and other nationalities want to remain citizens of their home countries while obtaining the benefits offered by the United States such as employment, medical care, in-state tuition, government subsidized housing, and free education for their offspring. Their main attraction is employment and their loyalty usually remains at home. They want benefits earned and subsidized by middle class Americans. What illegal aliens want are benefits of American residence without paying the price.
#2.
There are no jobs that Americans won't do. Illegal aliens are doing jobs that Americans can't take and still support their families. Illegal aliens take low wage jobs, live dozens in a single residence home, share expenses and send money to their home country. There are no jobs that Americans won't do for a decent wage.
#3.
Every person who illegally entered this nation left a home. They are NOT homeless and they are NOT Americans. Some left jobs in their home countries. They come to send money to their real home as evidenced by the more than $20 billion sent out of the country each year by illegal aliens. These illegal aliens knowingly and willfully entered this nation in violation of the law and, therefore, assumed the risk of detection and deportation. Those who brought their alien children assumed the responsibility and risk on behalf of their children.
#4.
Illegal aliens are NOT critical to the economy. Illegal aliens constitute less than 5% of the workforce. However, they reduce wages and benefits for lawful U.S. residents.
#5.
This is NOT an immigrant nation. There are 280 million native born Americans. While it is true that this nation was settled and founded by immigrants (legal immigrants), it is also true that there is not a nation on this planet that was not settled by immigrants at one time or another.
#6.
The United States is welcoming to legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are not immigrants by definition. The U.S. accepts more lawful immigrants every year than the rest of the world combined.
#7
There is no such thing as the "Hispanic vote". Hispanics are white, brown, black and every shade in between. Hispanics are Republicans, Democrats, Anarchists, Communists, Marxists and Independents. The so-called "Hispanic vote" is a myth. Pandering to illegal aliens to get the Hispanic vote is a dead end.
#8.
Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. Since 1848 Mexicans have resented the United States. During World War I, Mexico allowed German Spies to operate freely in Mexico to spy on the U.S. During World War II, Mexico allowed the Axis powers to spy on the U.S. from Mexico. During the Cold War, Mexico allowed spies hostile to the U.S. to operate freely. The attack on the Twin Towers in 2001 was cheered and applauded all across Mexico. Today, Mexican school children are taught that the U.S. stole California, Arizona, new Mexico and Texas. If you don't believe it, checkout some Mexican textbooks written for their schoolchildren.
#9.
Although some illegal aliens enter this country for a better life, there are 6 billion people on this planet. At least 1 billion of those live on less than one dollar a day. If wanting a better life is a valid excuse to break the law and sneak into America, then let's allow those one billion to come to America and we'll turn the USA into a Third World nation overnight. Besides, there are 280 million native born Americans who want a better life. I'll bet Bill Gates and Donald Trump want a better life. When will the USA lifeboat be full? Since when is wanting a better life a good reason to break the law and trash another nation?
#10.
There is a labor shortage in this country? This is a lie. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of American housewives, senior citizens, students, unemployed and underemployed who would gladly take jobs at a decent wage.
#11.
It is racist to want secure borders? What is racist about wanting secure borders and a secure America? What is racist about not wanting people to sneak into America and steal benefits we have set aside for legal aliens, senior citizens, children and other legal residents? What is it about race that entitles people to violate our laws, steal identities, and take the American Dream without paying the price?
For about four decades American politicians have refused to secure our borders and look after the welfare of middle class Americans. These politicians have been of both parties. A huge debt to American society has resulted. This debt will be satisfied and the interest will be high. There has already been riots in the streets by illegal aliens and their supporters. There will be more. You, as a politician, have a choice to offend the illegal aliens who have stolen into this country and demanded the rights afforded to U.S. citizens or to offend those of us who are stakeholders in this country. The interest will be steep either way.
There will be civil unrest. There will be a reckoning. Do you have the courage to do what is right for America? Or, will you bow to the wants and needs of those who don't even have the right to remain here? There will be a reckoning. It will come in November of this year, again in 2008 and yet again in 2010. We will not allow America to be stolen by third world agitators and thieves.
David J. Stoddard
U.S. Border Patrol (RET)
Hereford, Arizona
SAVE OUR COUNTRY ,MIDDLE CLASS AND TAX PAYER ,PLS SHARE TO ALL AMERICANS
Posted by: tIN on May 5, 2006 01:27 PMPLS GO TO :http://profiles.numbersusa.com/
Washington state support illegals because they have KING KENNEDY.
all democrat greedy need latinos vote jut greedy , criminal should be go to jail, will 100 million latinos move to this country they are theft and tax will collaps..
WA state will be like CA ,LA and crime will be hight and this state get MS 13 hispanic gank
in nov dont vote 'TRAITOR"
Posted by: john on May 5, 2006 01:34 PMAnd u know WA state help illegals healtcare, education and benefits, we dont need many mexicans they come here just take advantage this country most they come walfare spend.
Time to take care our country, when ILLEGALS coming BIG ...they be so arogant to many demanding to US.
but politics really bad now they dont care about anything just for votes and just care about big coorporation for help their party.
We need peoples more like Tancredo, sesenbrener, Dana Rohrabacher (CA),sheriff Joe ( arizona).
Hillary kennedy mccaine bush frist schumer they are Aristocracy.
If I saw most latino congress hispanic they always broken law..I mean when latinos broken law they really protect them just like mayor LA, this really dangerous .
Gues worker make more mexicans coming and they just party from tax benefits.
STOP ANCHOR BABIES from illegals parents in CA 60 hospital closed because most mexican women always making babies , they believe baby is angel and US property and for make hispanic have power in this country.
This country spend $70 BILLIONS DOLLAR FOR ALL BENEFITS ILLEGAL, thats...so huge... money in other cast many US citizen no healtcare and illegal stolen job from middle class, they destroy US wages, and they ruin this country.
every year they can send $10 billion to their country.
WE ARE NOT RACIS BECAUSE WE WANNA PROTECT OUR COUNTRY !!
ps: in mexico illegals is CRIMINAL and spend in JAIL 8 YEARS.
Posted by: Dewi on May 5, 2006 06:32 PM