If you would like to know the 2005-06 individual salaries/benefits for the teachers and other staff in your school district, you can find them at this link. The data is provided by the Office of the Superintendent of Public Instruction. It is organized in Excel spreadsheets or PDFs, alphabetically by district. The files may take a moment or two to load.
Is it right to publish teacher salaries?
Our decision to publish a database of salaries for public school teachers and other employees for the first time last year generated a fair amount of discussion on this blog, including the question: “What the heck are you people posting these peoples salaries for??? Are you sick?” (sic)
Sick? No. But otherwise it’s a fair question that has been posed more politely by others, and deserves an answer. ...
First, public school teachers are public employees. Their salaries are paid by you and me and every other taxpayer in this state. It is not wrong for us to know what those salaries are. To the contrary: It’s good for us to know since that information allows us to make wise decisions about issues that will impact those salaries.
Second, it is accepted almost without question today that “teachers are underpaid.” Yet for most people this belief doesn’t stem from knowing the facts, but from hearing the claim so often repeated. The facts may cause us to question that belief, or they may strengthen it in our minds. Either way, we shouldn’t hide them.
Third, individual teachers have an important job. So important, in fact, that we must be able to measure the outcome of their work and judge the value of our investment in them. No one is suggesting you can put a price tag on a teacher’s love for her students, but love must be accompanied by a demonstrated ability to impart measurable knowledge and skills to those students. Teacher salaries should reflect that ability. We won’t know if they do until we know what they are.
Teachers have every right to make the case for higher salaries. We all have that right no matter what our chosen career. But the case should be made openly and honestly, with full facts disclosed to the people who must decide whether or not to trade their hard-earned dollars for our services.
Personally, I think there are a lot of excellent teachers out there who could command a higher salary if they weren’t locked into a union-brokered salary grid that says all teachers should be paid the same regardless of how well they do their jobs, how much demand exists for their subject matter, and how difficult the environment is in which they choose to work.
I also think there are poor teachers out there who shouldn’t be in our classrooms at all.
And I think it’s ok to say those things out loud.
http://www.opm.gov/oca/06tables/index.asp
I think, what the teachers are worried about is how it well it shows how out of touch they are.
It is hard to claim poverty when you get 40K for 9 months work, to start.
Posted by: Mike P on March 15, 2006 12:29 PMYoung, hard-working effective teacher in my child's school makes $37,000 a year.
The principal of that school, who doesn't educate anyone, makes $93,000.
I think the whole system has it backwards!
Posted by: MJC on March 15, 2006 12:54 PMKeep up the good work. You are a gift!!
And BTW, http://lbloom.net/ has much intel on public employee salaries in WA State.
Posted by: A Watchdog on March 15, 2006 12:57 PMWhy:
a) There's pay inequity between "part-time"/adjunct teachers doing the same work as tenured teachers w/ tenure
and
b) EFF has, from time to time, chimed in on how more cost-effective the community & technical college system is. I'd love to see salary stats used to bolster that case.
Marsha, again you are an indispensible treasure to this state and I thank you.
Posted by: A Watchdog on March 15, 2006 01:08 PMThe first 33 people have a total salary of $0.
The highest paid person has a base salary of $36,707; other salary of $8,924; total salary $981,562
Another district with about 20 students in the district makes 65k, including benefits.
I am jealous.
Posted by: swatter on March 15, 2006 01:27 PMI don't have a problem with that. Those paying the bill should be able to find out where their money is going.
Posted by: Interested Observer on March 15, 2006 01:38 PMOur side of the political aisle gets pounded on the education issue. Whether this is fair or unfair can be debated but I'm pretty sure that we've been painted into a corner as being "anti-schools".
How do we portray ourselves as pro-quality education, pro-student and even (gasp) pro-teacher?
Any easy way we can deliver our message that doesn't make us sound like a bunch of ogres?
Any catchy slogans?
Something like that can fit on an annoying little bumper sticker like "If you can read this, thank a teacher".
Do posting teachers' (and administrators') salaries online like this help or hurt the cause of getting students a better and more cost effective education?
I agree that the state teachers union puts the teachers and their welfare ahead of educating the kids, but it is the Union's AGENDA that trumps the kids, teachers AND taxpayers' collective welfare every time!
Posted by: Saltherring on March 15, 2006 01:42 PM"Damn right I'm Pro-Choice! For Education..."
Posted by: Palouse on March 15, 2006 01:47 PMAnother huge drain on the State is the Old PERS 1 Pension Plan and even Pers 2.
Here is the scam...
A teacher teaches for 28 years....takes outside classes to get Administrative Credentials and then is a Principal for 2 years.
As a teacher, they were making tops of say $57,000. However as an Administrator for 2 years at say $95,000/yr.
Pension after 30 years of service is based on the 2 highest years OR.........
60% X $95,000 =====$57,000/yr.
In this case, a former 28 year teacher with 2 years of Administration would get a pension FOR LIFE equal to his/her highest salary as a teacher.
Our SCUMBAG Legislators (R and D) are also on this kind of "gravy train".
Marsha, try to get a similiar list of Pensions and Pension calculations. It would make you PUKE!
State Employees sit around and one of the prime topics is "how to boost my pension".
This one is not merely the fault of the Dems.
The TAXPAYERS get the shaft.
National defense
Foreign policy
Police protection
Fire protection
Streets, highways and bridges
Airports
Parks
Education
Regulation of licensed professionals
Administration of justice
Incarceration of prisoners
Just try doing some of these things on a private laissez-faire basis without the assistance (or interference) of government.
Posted by: Richard Pope on March 15, 2006 02:33 PMCould you also remove "regulation of licensed professionals"? I think there are resonable arguments to be made that professional associations have been better at setting standards than the government has been.
I'd also like to argue against "streets, highways and bridges". In the West, we consider toll roads a curious exception to free public travel. But in the East, toll roads are by far the better solution in getting from point A to point B, especially when that road is administered by a private company.
Posted by: Jonathan Gardner on March 15, 2006 03:07 PMThere are some 200 or so independent nations on this planet. The overwhelming majority of them involve government in the education of their children. In almost all of these, the government collects taxes from the general public to fund education of children. In most of these, the government also runs all or most of the schools for children.
Please give me an example of a country where the government is not involved in either the funding or the running of education for children. I cannot think of a country off the top of my head, but maybe you are more up on this subject than I am.
We can then debate about several things. The first of which might be whether you are correct about the country in question -- i.e. whether education of children in that country is totally private without any government involvement. The next issue would be the compare the quality of life in that country with the quality of life in the USA.
So you want to get rid of government licensing of doctors? This would allow private medical associations to determine whether people qualify to be members and be disciplined internally. At the same time, someone like Goldy or Roger Rabbit would be free to practice brain surgery, since membership in the medical association would be voluntary, and the government could not interfere with someone's decision to allow Goldy to operate on their brain.
This idea of toll roads is intriguing. I assume I would be required to pay for the cost of maintaining the portion of the street in front of my house. But then I (and everyone else) on my street would have the freedom to charge passing drivers whatever the market would bear -- or not allow them to drive past my house at all.
Posted by: Richard Pope on March 15, 2006 03:27 PMLike monopolies? There would be alot more of them without the FTC.
Like dying from untested medication? We would have alot more of it without the FDA.
Like your drinking water? Thank the EPA.
Posted by: Palouse on March 15, 2006 03:31 PMYou're mistaken.
1. FTC: no monopoly can exist without the help of government, and the only ones that have existed (or even close) have been government monopolies.
2. Far more people die every year because THEY CAN'T GET MEDICATIONS THAT MIGHT HELP because the FDA hasn't approved them than die because the FDA "saved" them from a possibly dangerous drug.
3. EPA: take a gues who the largest single polluter of water is? The United States Government. Perhaps in some limited way, standards set by the EPA have helped, though.
Scratch the surface of any endemic problem and I can almost guarantee you'll find a politician at the source.
Thanks for playing though.
Posted by: libertarianobserver on March 15, 2006 03:38 PMThe monopolies that have existed (e.g. the old AT&T) were broken up by the government. And because of that little break up, telecommunications innovation has grown exponentially.
2. Far more people die every year because THEY CAN'T GET MEDICATIONS THAT MIGHT HELP because the FDA hasn't approved them than die because the FDA "saved" them from a possibly dangerous drug.
Completely bogus. There are THOUSANDS of drugs that have gone before the FDA for approval that have been rejected because they were not safe. Without the FDA, those drugs are on the streets and people would be dying from them. I agree that the FDA is overly cautious in some instances, but rather that than risking thousands of lives (and lawsuits) by putting out an unproven medication.
3. EPA: take a gues who the largest single polluter of water is? The United States Government. Perhaps in some limited way, standards set by the EPA have helped, though.
Without the EPA there is nothing to stop polluters from dumping whatever industrial waste they want into rivers and lakes. The environment would be completely trashed without these regulations and penalties that can only be instituted by government.
Typical ignorant comment. As the husband of a teacher (thankfully, private school), I can say that arguement is pure bull.
1. my wife gets 2 days off during the 185 days of work. Most people have 2-4 weeks (or more vacation time a year, plus sick time, so when you do the math, it is pretty close to the same.
2. thanks to the stupid regulations, she has to go through intensive continuing ed. It is some new requirement that teachers who started before her are expempted from (as well as those who are coming out of state - go figure that one). This is after spending well in excess of 20,000 on a master's degree which was finished last summer.
She makes $35k a year - pretty sad salary for someone we entrust in educating our children. That is with a masters degree and 7+ years of experience. I am not sure how teachers in Seattle can actually live there - this is a problem.
Now, the real problem is the Union. She is not in the union, but most, if not all private schools base pay on union pay scales (that would be a percentage of the union pay scale - anywhere from 93% - 100%, so she gets paid less than public school union members).
Public employee unions are evil. Plain and simple. She could skate by just fine in a public school and never have to worry about actually doing anything, but she chooses to bust her tail and work harder than most anyone I know. What is the reward for this? "You need to go do more contiuing ed (an no, this is not workshops, it is college courses at Seattle U, and yes, we pay this out of our pocket).
So my point is that teachers are way UNDERPAID, however, as long as there is pay on years of service vs. pay for performance, that is the way it is - we both accept that. The union keeps the good employees down (and eventually pushes them out).
Posted by: blah on March 15, 2006 04:09 PM
I know I saw this somewhere before... but what the hell is that??
Hang on there, let's do some math...your wife doesn't get "winter break" and "spring break"? Last I checked, the rest of us don't get those. And I believe teachers also get sick days.
Let's assume for just a second that teachers ACTUALLY work on average 8 hours per day (which I know for a fact that most don't). 185 days x 8 = 1480 hours. The average full time employee works 2080 hours per year, which corresponds to 260 days x 8 hours. So teachers work at a minimum 71% of the hours that full time regular employers work. So a $35k a year salary would be the equivalent of a $46.67k FTE.
Alot of people in my school district make upwards of $46k - $50k+, which would correspond to over $65k FTE. Not a bad living, considering their retirement benefits. And I won't get into the arguments of how many hours are worked in the private sector versus those by teachers. But I assure you, for exempt employees it's more than 2080.
Posted by: Palouse on March 15, 2006 04:27 PMThe quality of life in Korea, particularly in the education arena, is very, very high. They have an astronimical literacy rate, a very good college attendance rate, and a very good college graduation rate. There are many things we could be doing like Korea.
And if it were true that all countries engaged in socialist education policies, it wouldn't change the fact that it is not the most efficient means of education. "Everybody's doing it" is no justification, you should know that.
About the government licensing of doctors: I ABSOLUTELY want to abolish government, particularly federal government, intervention in the medical industry. What right does someone in Washington D.C. have to tell me which doctors I can and cannot see, what procedures they can and cannot perform, and what drugs I can be prescribed? Call me libertarian on this regard, but I know what happens when you get government involved where people are perfectly capable of figuring things out on their own. Yes, we will have quacks. But look at all the medical innovation we have today. A long time ago, it would've been considered quackery to think you can get an image of the inside of people's bodies with radiation or electromagnetic pulses. We also poo-poo acupuncture and herbal medicine, when there is evidence that suggests it is not complete quackery. Why do we let the government set bounds on innovation and dictate where we can and cannot expand our understanding of the human body?
The problem with tolls on city streets is one of collecting the revenue. As it is now, we are in a way paying for the streets in front of our houses. When a company moves in to develop property, they foot the bill to build the roads in the complex and they also foot the bill to improve traffic in the area. The owners of the homes also pay a homeowner's association fee, part of which is used to clean up and maintain the streets in the complex. While government may dictate standards for roads (which is one thing they can do well) they make terrible stewards and should have minimal, well-defined stewardship roles.
Posted by: Jonathan Gardner on March 15, 2006 04:28 PMI thought I had it licked with my wife, but it turns out she lost most of her money in the stockmarket, so here I am, still working.
Don't be ashamed, go for it.
Posted by: swatter on March 15, 2006 04:32 PMYes - 45k is an average living - unfortunately, you don't get to that until 10+ years of service... name me one private sector job where you can have a Masters degree and 7 years experience and make 35k.
I have worked in IT for 7 years - been expempt management level for the last 4 at a Fotune 50 company and I can honestly say that my wife works as hard as I do.
Yes, winter and spring break are nice - but as far as the whole "summers off" thing, that is a bunch of bull. My wife has spent significant portions of the last 7 summers going to school (required to keep certification).
The problem is that there is no money in children and that is a shame. I don't disagree with anyone who gets upset at teacher strikes and union mandated pay scales - they're both bull. They knew what they were getting into when they signed up and until thee is a complete overhaul of the the system (booting the union, performance-based pay, etc.), that is the way it is going to be.
However, you cannot lump all of the teachers in a big group and claim that they have easy jobs that require less work than your average joe-worker at a private sector company. That just shows pure ignorance.
Posted by: blah on March 15, 2006 04:40 PM
believe me... I'm trying. I want to be a stay at home dad... I don't care what they say about being a "job", it sure beats the hell out of working for da man.
In any event, South Korean parents strongly prefer the USA education system over whatever arrangements prevail in that country. So much so, in fact, that South Korean parents are arranging to have their children adopted by American families (EVEN CAUCASIAN FAMILIES!) so that their children can enjoy the superior education provided by the American PUBLIC education system:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/02/05/INGC6H1OFQ1.DTL
Posted by: Richard Pope on March 15, 2006 04:48 PMThe problem is, schools ain't corporations. If anything, the school pyramid should be flipped--teachers should command higher salaries than the administrators.
Good luck with that.
Posted by: Organization Man on March 15, 2006 05:16 PMIn actuality there are very few things that a government may actually compete with private enterprise. An outstanding example:
Transportation
Nuclear facilities and management
Waste Disposal
Internet
The list will be endless. Government by its very nature is mindless to efficiencies. There is no reason to produce a profit. No performance bar is set by "management". In short government is a mindless, irresponsible entity.
Cox-2 inhibitors Vi-oxx, Cele-brex, etc. were not among them. Palouse, money talks. Politicians and bureaucrats habla. (The nanny would not allow me to spell Vi-oxx or Cele-brex correctly. Wassup with that?)
Posted by: ERNurse on March 15, 2006 08:22 PMidiot... read my posts.... 7 years of teaching... no summers off... school every summer (at our expense). What are you not getting here?
Planning time? What is that?
I know plenty of private sector people who slack on their jobs too - so what if you know 2 teachers who do the minimum?
My point is that I agree the pay is the way it is due to the union and the lack of any type of incentive/merit/results-based pay.
However, the "three months off" arguement is lame, tired, and totally uninformed.
Posted by: blah on March 15, 2006 09:49 PM1) I'd love to know the REAL cost of benefits including retirement allocations. The teachers seem to have a much better pension plan than most people. I don't believe that's reflected.
2) The amount of money given to the seniority of established teachers compared to new ones is way too lopsided. No wonder so many good minds leave the profession young. No wonder so many sub-par people stay with the profession and only become embittered with time as they realize (but never admit) that they could never make anywhere else what they make working in education.
Our children suffer for this imbalance.
Posted by: johnny on March 15, 2006 10:16 PM
Are you seriously asserting there is a private school in Washington that requires state certification even though no law compels them to do so? Or are you from another state perhaps? Because none of the best-known private schools in the Puget Sound area (or Portland, OR, for that matter) do have such a requirement.
Posted by: Kirk Parkerk on March 16, 2006 12:03 AMYou already do pay for the road in front of your house. It is called a "frontage tax". Check your tax records.
Obi-wan. As I said before, you can get the salary range for ANY US GOVT Employee from the OPM website. All you need to know is what agency they work for or their basic grade (GM,GS,WD,WG,etc) level.
see:
http://www.opm.gov/oca/06tables/index.asp
EVERY occupation has education requirements. People all over the private sector go to school ON THEIR OWN TIME to further their career. So the fact that your wife goes to school every summer doesn't mean squat. That's her CHOICE. She could have just as easily completed all requisite education PRIOR to her teaching career and have 3 months off. So the 3 months off statement stands.
Posted by: Palouse on March 16, 2006 07:40 AM
Although the above is not exact, it is meant to support the observation that out of the box thinking frequently creates innovations. Read the story of FedEx.
Washington schools are shamelessly boring, lacking inspiration and featuring mediocrity. It is what one would expect from a bureaucracy, nothing more. Students learn the value of patience.
Posted by: Snuffy on March 17, 2006 08:10 AMNot only that, but when they do start the summer break, it takes about two weeks just to settle down. At the end of the summer, they go in for training that is required but not technically on pay time. Plus, they have to deal with a bureaucratic nightmare.
People who think teachers have gravy jobs are idiots.
Posted by: Tom on March 17, 2006 12:21 PMI would love to get 3 vacations a year of more than 5 days in length.
Before you lose your top, add to it the 3-5 months working away from home.
When was the last time a teacher worked 100 (8 hour or more) days in a row. Let alone my longest 184 days. You start geting cranky after 60 or so.
The average number of days off from April to Oct, where I work, is 12. That includes weekends.
I haven't seen Seafair or Bumbershoot in the last 5 years.
The average worker works a lot longer and harder than they do.
My favorite quote:
"Not only that, but when they do start the summer break, it takes about two weeks just to settle down."
I would love to get 2 weeks to "wind down" in the summer, when the weather is nice. Let alone down time to use to keep up on my qualifications.
So before I start bawling my eyes out for how bad the teachers have it. Get a clue. Hell with it, get a brain.
Posted by: Mike P on March 18, 2006 06:11 PM