March 14, 2006
A group of state employees is filing a lawsuit over mandatory union dues
Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at March 14, 2006
01:42 PM | Email This
1. It's about time.
Taxpayer paid salaries....inflated....with mandatory dues used to support Democratic Party candidates exclusively. What a scam.
Lefty's love to whine & complain about Republican abuses.....but nothing is as bad as this.
Best of Luck to those workers.
Right to Work Initiative right around the corner.
2. I sure wish these folks the best of luck. Even if they win round one, the union slime buckets will find a way to grab the money, especially with their "hand picked" governor and a sympathetic press. Unions are already supposed to provided independently audited financial reports to any one who asks, but just try and get one. The union steward at one of my previous employers just looked like a stunned bunny when I told her the slick pie chart provided by union headquarters did not constitute above mentioned report. I never did get the report before I left. The request was always "in process".
3. Yeah hopefully we can destroy those greedy state employee families! I'm so sick of all the extra's they get like healthcare and protection from discrimination. If they cared about the country our troops are fighting for they would get rid of union protection! Sign me up
4. In states that have laws restricting workers' rights to form strong unions, the average pay for all workers is lower. So-called "right-to-work" laws that limit workers' rights to collectively bargain contracts (including wages and benefits) are a bad deal for all workers. In 2003, average pay in so-called "right-to-work" states was nearly 15 percent lower than in states where workers have the freedom to form strong unions.
I'm just a Cash fan, not so much Johnny Cash, but I really enjoy the opportunity to read the words "freedom" and "union" in the same sentence.
The unions and the democrats collude to take more money out of my pocket. Oh, and 78% of all statistics are made up on the spot to back up a weak argument.
6. Ninety-two percent of private-sector employers, when faced with employees who want to form a union, force employees to attend closed-door meetings to hear anti-union propaganda; 78 percent require supervisors to deliver anti-union messages in one-on-one meetings with workers they oversee.
7. Click here to
download a PDF file.Union workers’ median weekly earnings are 28 percent higher than their nonunion counterparts.
While only 16 percent of nonunion workers have guaranteed pensions, fully 70 percent of union workers do.
86 percent of union workers’ jobs provide health insurance benefits, compared with only 59.5 percent of nonunion workers’ jobs. Only 2.5 percent of union workers are uninsured, compared with 15 percent of nonunion workers.
Median weekly wages for women union workers are 34 percent higher than nonunion women.
Median weekly wages for African American workers in unions are 29 percent higher than for nonunion African Americans; for Latinos, the difference is 59 percent; and for Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders, it is 11 percent
They have the right to form strong unions if they have strong support. They should not have the right to strong arm workers and take the workers' freedom to choose if they want to join, just as companies should not be able to legally keep out other competition.
Wages may be higher in states that permit union strong arming people into the union, but how many people are working, or have they priced themselves out of jobs to other states/countries. And how much of that 15% for those that are working is actually kept by the employee instead of going to the union in the form of dues?
As an example in many fast food chains you are now talking to someone in South Dakota as it is less expensive to hire than and have the communications to any US location than to hire locally.
9. 1 I wish I had a union I could join to protect me from the likes of Joel Horn, Greg Nickels, Ron Sims et al
2 I don't mind paying for roads, schools, and other basic services but become extremely annoyed at the way the public sector can waste funds. The really sad part is they don't care.
3 Oh I forget my union rep is Tim Eyeman. I was going to send him a check for $50 so he can continue to keep the bureaucrats in check, but Joel Horn took $250 for a 6 yr old car with 100k miles for his monorail boondogle that had no effect on congestion.
4 I'm a great fan of moving commuters by rail after living it elsewhere and seeing the convenience of BART and METRO, but in the Land of the Tinfoil Hats decisions are studied to death and the consensus result is wrong 90% of the time.
5 Got to go. I need to make funds to pay my health insurance bill.
The contract is legal and binding on all parties, and the lawsuit will fail, as it should. This is just more nonsense to rile up the rubes, with all the predictable results.
Maybe the Right to Work for Less Foundation should explain to these state employees why they should put their salaries, benefits, pensions, and level of representation at risk.
They won't, of course. They won't explain that they are funded, as I'm sure Stefan is, but won't admit, by billionaire employer groups who want everyone in society to have less so that they can have more.
Food for thought,
How many of the workers at United/Delta/Northwest etc. are going to get their pension. How about Ford or GM is they don't make it, how about all those steel workers. With all these jobs exported, realistically how many are getting their medical and pensions without using taxpayers' money?
ivan - what contract? These employees did not enter into a contract. Unilateral contract are not valid.
There you go again telling these people what is best for them as you are the great sage! Why not let them make their choice? I thought libs were all pro-choice, or is that just a euphamism?
13. So tell us again what the argument for Civil Services Unions is? Public employees already have safeguards and protections other workers do not. How does this represent a value to the taxpayers? Shouldn't the taxpayers be able to outsource functions of Government to the most cost effective providers? Should the Workers have a choice of a number of unions they could belong to in any one shop so they could encourage competition among unions and individuals? This is more about MONEY for political machines than the good of the working man/woman.
14. So-called "right-to-work" laws that limit workers' rights to collectively bargain contracts (including wages and benefits) are a bad deal for all workers.
There's nothing in right-to-work laws that prevents anyone from joining a union. They are instead designed to prevent compulsory unionization, which in fact limits rights.
Ivan can always be counted upon to spout economic nonsense, in this case the "zero-sum" economic fallacy.
Thanks for being predictable. And wrong as usual.
Anybody who thinks that unions generate wealth, raise wages, increase worker security, or lower unemployment is completely wrong.
"This finding raises a critical issue: Are wages of unionized workers higher because of unionization, or do unions concentrate on organizing in industries where wages are high already?"
Answer: "Thus, it appears that high wages attract unions, not the other way around as much union publicity claims."
Wages are not higher because of unions. Unions target industries and states where wages are already high, and attach themselves like leeches to the host body.
Larry, you're an idiot. The largest union growth these days is in the service sectors, janitors, etc. I'm supposed to believe some cut-and-paste from some right-wing whack job site?
L.O., you're an idiot, too. See if I'm wrong when this nuisance lawsuit gets thrown out of court.
South County, you, also, are an idiot. Why did the whopping majority of state employees vote to be unionized and for this contract?
18. Just poke around a bit and notice the levels of unemployment and cost of living in those states where unions are but a puff of smoke. Unions outlived their usefulness DECADES ago.
19. Larry, thanks to his RNC talking points has finally debunked the myth that wal-mart employees make less then union employees. I am so thrilled! Hopefully his next talking point will center around the fact that Bush's poll number's are really upside down and in fast 65/35%!
it would be nice if you would address remarks substantively. I don't know HOW MANY TIMES your faith-based belief in zero-sum economics has to be refuted before it sinks in. And you have the nerve to call other people idiots?
21. Union representation is falling in all employment sectors except for public sector employees. Union leadership are just like the democraps: enriching themselves by piously preaching about the little guy.
22. Thank you, Obi, for pointing that out for Ivan's benefit. I meant to mention it, but you know how us idiots are.
According to a recent survey, out of the disgrunteled few that are anti-union in the state of washington, an astonishing 87% have been found to be legally retarded.
Also, as Dr. Rush points out, 93% of those think that George Bush walks on water with 6% thinking that George Bush invented water and the other 3% think he is god.
perhaps you could spend your time over with the Kos kids, instead of hanging out here bothering the adults.
25. libertarianobserver, being called an idiot by ivan is like being called ugly by a pig.
My company has a union workforce and yes we pay all those high wages and benefits. The result: We are becoming uncompetitive in our industry. We either find a way to reduce workers or eventually clsoe our doors. The end result, is all those good union wages will go bye bye and our workers will making zippo.
So unless you work for a comapny that can demand ever higher prices for its services, like governments, your nice union paycheck and pension is at risk. You need only look a the US car makers and airlines to see where over priced labor gets you.
27. libertarianobserver, gotta love the liberals. last time I checked 93%+6%+3%=102%. Hmmm, I thought survey results should add up to 100% No wonder they believe in socialism; just like they have their own rules for economics, they have their own rules for math.
Have you ever noticed how no matter how many times their socialist/redistributionist ideas are tried THEY NEVER WORK? It must suck to be devoted to a failed--and murderous!--ideology.
No wonder ivan is cranky.
29. My Father was a Union Diesel Mechanic for many, many years. He shared with me about the "good old days" when his Union really worked with employers...and vice versa. He felt it was absolutely ridiculous however that PUBLIC SERVANTS unionized. It is a recipe for undo influence. Public Employees used to be very apolitical. Not any more. He saw it as a Democratic Party money grab at the expense of taxpayers. He saw unfair use of "Publicly Funded" Union Dues going to this one Political Party. He saw it correctly. He used to be a Dem.
The ONLY way out of this ridiculous mess is thru Litigation and Legislation. The R's are too cowardly to take it on. That leaves the voters...thru Initiative. No wonder the Dems want to gut the Constitution in Washington!!
Your reply shows what a small place logic has in your daily life. I provided a link to a study that shows the effects of unions on wages, and wages on unions. You replied with a statement on union growth (with no link, study, nor reference). That's a non-sequitur (that's Latin for 'The idiot is actually YOU').
I had no idea that the National Institute for Labor Relations Research was a 'right-wing whack-job site'. Perhaps the Washington Education Association is more objective? Maybe we should look for study on the Longshoreman's Union website?
FYI - a family member of mine is the VP of the Management Council of United Airlines AFA. Perhaps you'd like to talk to her about her union's salaries, benefits, and pensions? You can tell her ALL ABOUT the fact that their salaries, benefits, and pensions were never at risk, given the fact that they had a contract in place! She might even appreciate your naiviete for a few seconds.
Ivan, you've always been an idiot. That's sad. The funny part is that you revert to your true self so quickly, over so little.
Larry: "Wages affect unionization more than unionization affects wages."
I guess that says it all. Debating you is like playing tug-of-war with a dog - it's entertaining, but I'm bigger and stronger and I always win, unless I just want to humor the dog.
libertarianobserver, yes, I noticed that. What's so sad, and a threat to our republic, is that they truly believe that it's not their ideas that have always failed, it's just that there's never the proper level of funding.
Insanity has been described as doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.
Back in the day of Pinkertons and baseball bats, yes, unions were greatly needed.
Today, what the hell does a public employee need to be protected against...the taxpayers?
33. union dues = living wages
union dues = pensions
union dues = medical beneifts
union dues = representation
union dues = weekends with family
union dues = labor day
union dues = non-discrimination
union dues = solidarity
union dues = collective bargaining
union dues = healthy workplace
union dues = campaign $$$
union dues = private junkets for lobby
union dues = no accounting for members' $$$
Like BornRight, I too work at a shop where the workforce is unionized. As a result we are forced to charge higher costs to customers.
In our business work is won or lost based on bidding against the competition. Gone are the days when the customers would pay a contract based on time and material. Now they want to know the exact cost up front. We are quickly becoming uncompetitive against non-union shops that have lower costs. Our profit margin continues to drop as we struggle to bring in work.
What happens if we go out of business as a result? Then they have no income whatsoever. What will the union do for them, when there are no union shops to work at?
36. They won't explain that they are funded, as I'm sure Stefan is, but won't admit, by billionaire employer groups
You sure, Ivan? Really, really sure? Or, are you just talking out of your ass. Again.
You are a union goon, Ivan. Pure and plain as day. You're an old, yellow-dog union hack who made his way on the backs of other, more-productive workers. And when people point out numbers contradicting your socialist mantra, you call them idiots because they don't buy into your crap.
And then you insult the owner of this blog by implying he's bought off somehow. As if goons like Stern, Johnson, Rolf and all the other 'heroes looking out for the little guys' aren't. Except those champions of labor extort their money out of the paychecks of workers.
There are good, union workers who do hard, manual labor - but the power structure of the unions rots from the head. And you defend it.
I'd rather quit my job, be unemployed, shirtless and on the street than to belong to a union. And yes, I've had that choice before. I made it and never looked back.
37. What I failed to mention is that the union at our shop protects the deadwood. When it comes time to cutback, we have to lay off the new hires first, even though many of them are our best workers. The slackers and foul-ups get to stay.
38. If anyone knows how state employees can sign up to participate in the lawsuit, please post the information. As a "non-member" who pays over $500 a year in "representation fees" to the lefty scum, I look forward to signing up.
Ivan says: South County, you, also, are an idiot. Why did the whopping majority of state employees vote to be unionized and for this contract?
A wopping majority of state employees did not vote to be unionized for this contract. 80% of the employees did not even know that a vote was taking place. Also, the 20% that did know about it were union members. The voting took place at location away from their work places at the most inconvenient places they could find. For example, the Olympia voting place was downtown Olympia where there is no parking.
It appears that you don't know much at all about the voting process that took place.
Let me get this straight: Public employees, paid with public funds, voted on forming unions so they could contribute money (and rig elections) to one party so they can expect higher wages?
Does anyone else see the conflict of interest here?
And how can anyone defend this behavior? You know that it's your sales (sin, real estate, etc) taxes going to pay these people, right? You know they're trying to introduce a state income tax to ensure a steady stream of funds for this kind of crap, right?
Public Sector unions should be OUTLAWED, plain and simple. Public employee's employers are: the public. If public employees feel their services are worth more money, then they ought to bring that forth to the public and have the public grant them those higher wages. I kind of just don't see that happening.
(Man, maybe the military needs to get in on this union thing!)
Gil - That being the case, those of a mind to should begin a decertification drive.
If enough people in the affected bargaining unit(s) sign the NLRB form asking for the SEIU (?) to be decertified, the NLRB will schedule a decertification vote.
This route might even be faster than a lawsuit.
42. Hey malamute552000, do you have malamutes? What kind? Black and white or seal colored,etc. I had a seal-colored male and now have a black and white female. I LOVE this breed!
43. I'm proud to say that my sister successfully sued the California Teachers Assn. (Cal. version of WEA) a ccouple years ago with the help of the same National Right to Work group. She gives speeches about it and is even recently photographed for some new publicity pieces they are putting together. She has another lawsuit going against them again with the help of National Right to Work I'm proud of what she has done to take I don't know how many thousands of dollars out of CTA's hide because of her work with NRTW. National Right to Work is a great group!
44. South County, you, also, are an idiot. Why did the whopping majority of state employees vote to be unionized and for this contract?
And you, sir, have limited verbal skills. Unfortunately, someone beat me to the explanation of why you were wrong.
Maybe next time.
camrade ivan isn't an idiot, more of a moist steamy turd.
When he isn't cleaning the toilets for the democraps, he's sniffing bicycle seats down at the union hall.
To call ivan an idiot would be to denigrate and demoralize idiots everywhere.
So ivan, do you know the meaning of putz? Look it up (preferably in an illustrated dictionary - that way you can see your picture ;'}
46. It is never surprising when union activists cry out that they "deserve" their wages and perks. What is surprising is when the consumer and tax payer supports them. Personally, I boycott any known union shop. When I can't, like the airlines, I make a point of making an anti-uninon statement where I can. The rub is when I as a taxpayer, must subsidize union dues with my hard working, non-voluntary taxes. I also have trade affiliations, but they are not mandated nor involuntarily funded. And I ALWAYS vote against pro-union candidates. I support the anti-union movement with both my dollars and my vote.
47. You don't suppose there would be election fraud in a union election do you???
Yes, I have two of them, a male and a female. They are both sable colored. They are great dogs, and I wouldn't have any other breed.
It can be soon enough before the last union shuts its doors. Any lawsuit is welcome. It's wrong for public employees to be able to unionize and for their union leaders to take their dues and direct them towards a political party.
Go read more. Unions have destroyed the auto industry which is bad enough. But unions can't destroy government since it is a monopoly, they can only make if more ineffective, more inefficient and more expensive.
I think we could go a long way towards having
healthcare for uninsured workers by using the
money for labor and industries premiums which
vary depending on what type of work the individual does. What the hell, it's just medical insurance for you at work. Take the
government out of it. The private sector, for
the same money, could provide NINE times the
coverage with 40 percent fewer employees. Meaning coverage around the clock. I
studied it and ran the numbers. As far as
retirement accounts for workers, we could make
unemployment insurance optional. The employee
could waive the funds (paid to the state by
their employer) to be put into their retirement
account. My company has had to pay almost 5%
of gross wages to the state. Granted the
employee would lose his weekly check if he were
to lose his job, but performance has always been enhanced when one has something at stake. I think the overall stability of our employment
picture would increase if all of a sudden workers with no health or retirement at least had something going on.
Wake up and smell the borche.
If an employer when to the union member and demanded that money was to be collected and spent on "the employer's favored political party", the union would fight it tooth and nail. The same thinking should go for union towards its own members.
Yes, unions have done good, but they have also done evil.
My fellow union members can't understand a few basic tenets of capitalism.
If you pay the employee more, that cost is passed on to the consumer (and the union member).
A minimum wage raise, raises the price of everything. Including the amount of what is called a "living wage".
The union workers do not own the company.
If the company is not sucessful, the union member also loses.
And lastly. The Democratic party has done at least as much damage to the union member as the Republicains. All the while getting all that campaign cash from the unions. Go figure.
"union dues = living wages
union dues = weekends with family
union dues = non-discrimination
union dues = solidarity
union dues = healthy workplace"
Nice list of platitudes. Solidarity? Explain in detail if you can. And not with more platitudes like "workers of the world unite". And non-discrimination briefs well, but it's gone from not judging by the color of one's skin to not enforcing any standard of performance at all for fear of lawsuits. Just look at the women who sued Wal-Mart saying they were passed over for promotion because they were women. When asked on live TV what they had done to deserve promotion, they all said, "Well, we've been here longer than the guys who got promoted." What kind of business can thrive with that kind of mentality? None if it's in the private sector. Get over it man. There are certain rights we are guaranteed as Americans. Health care and inflated wages are not among them. And niether is the right to spend the weekend with your family. There are, however, plenty of places in the world who do "guarantee" those things. In fact there's one about 90 miles off the coast of Florida. Why don't you give it a shot and see how that works out for you.
53. When are we finally going to get a right to work initiative in this state so we can finally end union slavery and extortion?
54. The unions are nothing but bunch of mob run branches of the Democrat party.
55. When I was a young man I was flying home to SeaTac from Billings by way of Butte. I had a couple hours layover in Butte and as I sat in the airport a woman was reading headline “Anaconda Copper Pulling Out of Butte”) the local paper. She was loudly mocking the headline with the words, ‘What do we care if Anaconda Copper leaves? Let them. Anaconda Copper has never done anything for us. The Union will take care of us.’ I was about 16 years old at the time and my thoughts were ‘lady you are in for a rude awakening, the Union that you are counting on to take care of you will beat Anaconda out of town.’
Come on now,
Unions have done so much to make the airline and auto industries even more profitable.
Every advance in this half-century--Social Security, civil rights, Medicare, aid to education, one after another--came with the support and leadership of American Labor.
If I went to work in a factory, the first thing I'd do would be to join a Union.
—Franklin D. Roosevelt
58. Demswinagain---Is it a good idea for the Amer. car companies to be paying labor people thousands of dollars a year not to work? That's going on right now, I have recently learned. It's a big hindrance and is just plain wrong.
The quotes from FDR and Jimmy Carter make me smile and feel all warm and fuzzy inside. In FDR's day (as was pointed out above, the days of Pinkertons and baseball bats, the days before OSHA and probably before child-labor laws), heck yes, we all probably would've joined a union. But now? In an entirely different world? Sorry, I'll take my graduate school education over a union card ANY DAY OF THE WEEK!
The fact that modern-day liberals still hang their hats on the policies of FDR and the ideas of Jimmy Carter is a perfect illustration of why they can't win an election outside of Washington State, and have to count three times to win one IN this state. They were wrong then, and they're wrong now. But at least they didn't look so foolish back then, like they do now.
Oh no, they're quoting FDR and Carter! Please don't throw me in the b'rer patch!
60. Any true patriot would not sell out a union. They have done more for America then most people could say. I appluad the unions and nothing unpatriotic about making people pay the bills for the service they have been getting. What whould are country look like if anyone could just decide to skip payments on cable and groceries but still demand that they get those things free?
Gotta love the bad analogies and bad spelling of the left:
"What whould are (sic) country look like if anyone could just decide to skip payments on cable and groceries but still demand that they get those things free?"
What would our country look like if everyone could buy and pay for only the groceries that they want? A capitalist country!
What would our country look like if everyone was forced to buy and pay for the same groceries, whether or not they wanted or needed them? A communist country!
Today's political science lesson is over.
Wow- the union dumbasses have really got their thongs in a twist over this little lawsuit. You can bet that if it brings our the mouth-breathing union lackies, it's an issue worth pursuing.
I bet the little hoodlums wish they could swing little cyber axe-handles.
By the bye, I wonder how many of these union-indoctrinated, inbred, slack-jawed, worthless private sector dropouts are posting from STATE GOVERNMENT domains? Hmmmmm?
ILUVUSA, your loyalty is touching, albeit misplaced, outdated and bereft of independent thought.
What you SHOULD have said was, "Unions have done more TO America than anyone can say.
And in addition to your history, you could use a little help with your spelling. Did you go to a school whose teachers were unionized?
Ewaggin, I gotta tell you- SEIU local 1199 here has not gained any fans among licensed staff in my hospital. First of all the old SEIU local sold hospital workers down the river. Then SEIU local 1199 tried to horn in on the territory. They get the more gullible workers to parade around wearing "SEIU- for Respect!" buttons in patient care units. The goons incited a bunch of employees to crash a Hospital Administration meeting. This is SEIU bargaining at its best.
The SEIU, Teamsters, SPEEA, whatever- just a bunch of greedy, Mafia-backed, bullying economic terrorist thugs. They are about as American as Trotsky. They have done more harm to American business in the last 40 years than all of the foreign competition put together.
Look for the union label, and boycott it!
You forgot the biggest Union catastrophe of all.
United Steel. They single handedly handed the production of steel to the Japanese starting in the 1950's.
By the time Sean Astin was making "Rudy", three quarters of the US steel plant's were already shut down.