March 12, 2006
Mrs. Gregoire's Freudian slip

Sunday's Seattle Times: "[Mrs. Gregoire1] thanks Teamsters for votes"

With Teamsters national President James Hoffa Jr. looking on, Gregoire thanked the 300 or so Teamsters shop stewards assembled at the Washington Convention and Trade Center for helping her win the 2004 election.

"I know, my friends, I would not be here without you," she said.

Of course she wouldn't. The Teamsters Union counts the votes. The article mentions "Local 117", calling it
an amalgam of prison guards, port police, warehouse workers and airport staff, is the third-largest of the Teamsters' 500-some locals in the country.
The article neglects to mention that Teamsters Local 117 also represents King County Elections workers.

1 One gets the feeling that Mrs. Gregoire will give the Teamsters pretty much whatever they ask for.

Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at March 12, 2006 12:28 AM | Email This
Comments
1. Freudian slip, indeed. But you have to admit she did look lovely in her gown at the Oscars when she accepted the award for "Best Actress in a Leading Role Pretending to Have Won a Governorship"

Posted by: Me on March 12, 2006 01:01 AM
2. Does not surprise me that she is with Hoffa, both lie like a rug and steal money from people like Jessie James!

She is a Pretend Queen! All hail and turn over your check books!

Posted by: GS on March 12, 2006 01:58 AM
3. from:

Http://astuteblogger.blogspot.com

Friday, March 10, 2006
DEMOCRATS: THE PARTY OF PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS
WILLISMS: "Union membership in the private sector in this country is WAY down over the past few decades, while simultaneously WAY up in the public sector (via The Club For Growth blog)..."

Willism has a GREAT CHART; here's a summary:

In 1948, 35% of all private sector workers were in unions. It has declined ever since.
In 1948, 12% of all public sector workers were in unions. It has increased ever since.
In 2004, only 8% of all private sector workers are in unions.
In 2004, 37% of all public sector workers are in union.

Historically, the largest single segment of the Democrat Party has always been unions. It still is, but NOT the old "blue collar" unions of the private sector. The unions of the public sector are running the Democrat Party now. FACT: SINCE 1990, public sector unions have given 90% of their donations to the Democrat Party -- $135 MILLION DOLLARS to the Dems and only $12 million to the GOP.

WHY DO THESE UNIONS FAVOR THE DEMOCRAT PARTY? AND, WHAT CAN THE DEMOCRAT PARTY POSSIBLY DO FOR THEM THAT THE GOP WON'T?

Simple: the Democrats will raise taxes and increase the size of government and EXPAND THE SIZE, POWER AND WEALTH OF THE PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS. That's why the public sector unions love the Dems. It's a quid pro quo.

SO, if you want to have government for the public sector unions, by the public sector unions, and of the public sector unioins, then by all means... PLEASE VOTE DEMOCRAT.

# posted by reliapundit :

Posted by: pagar on March 12, 2006 05:13 AM
4. From Unionfacts.com---some facts about the union
the votecounters belong to: Teamsters

http://www.unionfacts.com/unions/unionProfile.cfm?id=93

Posted by: pagar on March 12, 2006 05:28 AM
5. Many public sector employees do vote Republican but they have no say in how their compulsory union dues are allocated. Many teachers, cops, firefighters, etc. would like to see the unions reformed so that they actually helped good workers with problems, but sadly, too often they simply protect those who should be fired and then get involved in all kinds of social issues in which their members have no interest. There are Federal laws which govern how unions can spend their workers dues and allow them the opportunity to opt out of political contributions but they haven't been enforced. Hopefully, that will change soon, but the Democrats will fight to the death against it because if they lost the union money they really would be DOA!

Posted by: Suzihomaker on March 12, 2006 07:58 AM
6. You're assuming it was a Freudian Slip.

Posted by: JCM on March 12, 2006 08:38 AM
7. You're assuming it was a Freudian Slip.

Make that a Fraudian Slip

Posted by: Stefan Sharkansky on March 12, 2006 08:49 AM
8. JCM and Stefan,

Great play on words.

Posted by: Fed Up on March 12, 2006 09:28 AM
9. I guess crooks feel more comfortable in the company of crooks. Mrs. G seems in good company with the likes of the Teamster Leadership.

She knows who she owes and is making sure that they view themselves as owning her and her veto. I expect that she also expects to be able to direct where they put future campaign contribution support.

Mrs. G wants higher federal office. I feel that she is hoping to get a cabinet position if we every again get a Democrat in the Whitehouse or that she will be elected as a Senator from his state in the near future. It would be an interesting cat fight to see her go against either Murray or Can't-vote-well. My money is on Mrs. G going after Murray. Mrs. G is cunning and smart. Murray is dumb and lucky.

Posted by: Bob on March 12, 2006 11:58 AM
10. "I know, my friends, I would not be here without you"

With these kinds of friends....who cares if there are enemies!!

Posted by: Susu on March 12, 2006 03:10 PM
11. I was in a union once and it we workers didn't make a whole bunch of dough back then but I still remember the business agent of the local wore a suit that probably cost more than I made in two months. I then met the lawyer that the union hired using the workers dues and his suit woulda been more like three months and he also had a ring with a rock that probably was a years worth of wages. I don't much care for unions, I believe they protect incompetence and promote unproductivity.

Posted by: harpoontang on March 12, 2006 05:24 PM
12. Yeh keep voting these brain dead tax and regulation happy democratic idiots in to the house and senate this year, and you will have a new Income Tax on all your hard earned money added to all the other taxes you are currently paying right now. it graduates from 2.2 taxing the poor below $37,425 to almost 9% at 90,488.

They already have it already written up and ready to go (they won't try it in an election year)

Look at SB 5991 and specifically section 301.

http://www.leg.wa.gov/pub/billinfo/2005-06/Pdf/Bills/Senate%20Bills/5991.pdf

Call and write your senators and these authors of this bill, Franklin (D) Kline (D) Kohl-Welles (D) and tell them what you think of this bill.

All sponsored by Democrats to if you can believe this "to provide the necessary revenues for the support of vital state services on a more stable and equitable basis....Yeh Right!

They only raised the budget 13.5 percent this year alone and they wonder why they have no stable revenue stream!

So in November Vote these idiots out and cripple Queen Christine and her court or open up your pocketbooks and dump them out.

Posted by: GS on March 12, 2006 06:24 PM
13. Thanks a lot GS - now I have a headache from trying to follow the bill.

This bill was written last year and it was intended to go into effect in 2007.

From what I read, it would impose an income tax of 2.2% on everyone. Additional rates can push it up to almost 6% depending on your income and filing status. They would use the adjusted gross income from your federal income taxes. You would be allowed between $7,000 to $10,000 personal deduction, depending on marital status and whether both were working.

The law would reduce the state portion of the sales tax from 6.5% to 3.5%.

It looks like they would "eliminate" the state portion of the property tax, but it was confusing to me if it was really an elimination or a large reduction in the percentage.


Looking at my past tax filings and trying to apply this new law to that data, it looks as if I would actually pay the state twice as much as I would save from the tax cuts.

Posted by: SouthernRoots on March 12, 2006 07:44 PM
14. You can see where this will head. Why should public employee unions have any right to give money to a particular party? That's fine for private employee unions, but isn't there a conflict of interest in allowing the public employees to vote for a party that could get in to office and then legislate special benefits, etc.?

It's obvious that the Unions' strategy has been to expand the public employee ranks in light of most privately employed Americans realizing that Unions are not a good thing. Take for example the Automtoive Employees. The American Auto industry is dying under the high cost of union membership. And as such, the Automotive Employees are losing jobs, even the union employees. So, what to do if you are a union boss? Go to the one place where therr won't rbrt be any stifling competition, and you can rig the system even more in your favor: Government.

But, it won't be long before motr private citizens catch on to this practice. Why should public employees, using your tax dollars get to turn around and funnel that money to unions by way of their dues in order to get Democrats elected?

And this is one more reason to fight hard for tax credits for those who send their kids to private schools. A nice big juicy target is the WEA and the giant teachers unions.

Posted by: Jeff B. on March 12, 2006 08:50 PM
15. Exactly, that is why it is time to get it out in the open now at election season. Show voters what they are up to!

Posted by: GS on March 12, 2006 08:53 PM
16. Anyone who believes that after the imposition of an income tax the state portion of the sales tax will not be raised back to the old level to fund "vital state services" is either a fool or votes democrap. Oops, sorry to repeat myself.

Posted by: Obi-Wan on March 13, 2006 05:57 AM
17. My words exactly. Either eliminate the state sales tax and go all income, or forget it. Given these people an opportunity to raise the sales tax and still have the income tax is an opportunity the State people want.

With our population doubling or tripling since the last attempt at an income tax fizzled, I don't know how our current voters think.

Posted by: swatter on March 13, 2006 07:34 AM
18. swatter, I'm not for any compromise at all. Even if the state sales tax were completely eliminated that wouldn't stop the criminals in Olympia from bringing it back to life, and there's still county and city sales taxes to deal with. Eventually we'd wind up with a 9% sales tax and 9% income tax.

How about a special tax on Weinstein's fancy suits?

Posted by: Obi-Wan on March 13, 2006 07:41 AM
19. He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers. The recent State Supreme Court decision giving the legislature plenipotentiary power in land condemnation.


He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance. Just how many new State appointees and employees are there? How many new laws, and requirements eat into the product of the people?


For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent: Gas tax, and all those hidden "user fees." In the face of clear calls for tax relief. Even when State revenue rises 7%, State spending goes up over twice the revenue increase.


For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever. Can you say emergency clause 90 times?


In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people. Our initiatives from 601 on have be subverted, ignored and overturned.

The words above are from The Declaration of Independence of the Thirteen Colonies
In CONGRESS, July 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

Our power to redress these grievances at the ballot box is slipping away. Taken by corrupt systems and people, the elected legislature gets carried away in a power mad frenzy and ignores the clear dictates of the People.

How much farther down this road do we go before Revolution is truly necessary to right these wrongs?


Posted by: JCM on March 13, 2006 07:58 AM
20. JCM: The road extends just as far as voters are willing to be fooled. And it seems the voters in Washington State are only too willing.

Posted by: katomar on March 13, 2006 10:15 AM
21. There are two groups of people; those who get more from government than they pay in, and those who pay more than they get. The democraps are doing their best to make the first group larger than the second group. Then they'll stay in power by promising them more and more at the expense of the fewer and fewer.

Notice that the democraps don't have any ideas? Their voters are coalition of special interest groups. Unions, greens, gay rights activists, consumers of government services, etc. They all sell their votes in exchange for promises of largess. Sounds like the worlds oldest profession.

Posted by: Obi-Wan on March 13, 2006 10:28 AM
22. katomar,

SIGH! No argument from me. Problem is we have whole generations of voter who could not identify the source of my above quotes. Educated in statist school with statist theory and who now vote the statist party line. With another huge voting block, state employees, the welfare class and other state dependents vote in their personal interest.

The revolution was won with the support of 1/3 of the population. About a third were Tories, a third waited for it blow over and a third were rebels.

We have a third or better in our camp. Let the revolution begin at the ballot box. However the first battle is right here in KCE. If we can restore honest elections in KC the critical battle will have been won.

Posted by: JCM on March 13, 2006 10:35 AM
23. When people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the Republic. --Benjamin Franklin

That is essentially what is happening here in WA with the large voting blocs of public employees (through their unions) voting in more and more money for education, large public works projects like the viaduct, etc.

Posted by: Palouse on March 13, 2006 10:48 AM
24. Just finished reading Michael Creighton's novel "State of Fear". Good rollicking ride, as usual, but he gives such wonderful insight into the thought processes of liberals, and their inability to accept actual, proven facts that are not in synch with their beliefs, especially concerning the environment. It was all Sooo Familiar! The will continue to vote emotionally, with no facts, until they are hit hard enough, either over the head or in the wallet.

Posted by: katomar on March 13, 2006 11:11 AM
25. Re: Freudian Slip

As one of those "Teamster" emmployees who count the votes, I am really insulted by your implication that we would shave or distort the count. We have to join the union as a condition of temporary employment. We work our tails off to get it right, and then you come up with a comment like that. Come down and work the convassing before you make any more snide remarks.

Posted by: judy on March 13, 2006 11:14 AM
26. Obi-wan,

You've nailed it. For the Dems, it's all about segmenting society into entitlement classes that justify, legitimize and perpetuate a socialist welfare state. But there's good news. Ultimately, a socialist welfare state cannot exist. It's not self-sustaining. That's why capitalism is of course the only system that really works. So now matter how much the Dems try to push us towards socialism, we will see their ideas implode. Unions destroying businesses, social security collapsing, the citizens turning against the largesse of government. It's all only a matter of time because there's just not enough money to justify every progressive fantasy.

Posted by: Jeff B. on March 13, 2006 11:55 AM
27. judy,

It's not the count that got distorted, counting is pretty easy and usually done well by the rank and file, it's the universe of ballots in the count. Logan's people have admitted that there were ballots that should not have been counted.

Still though, you may or may not want to be part of a union, but in so doing, you are ultimately hurting yourself. How long will it be before even government jobs protecting more-than-the-tax-base-will-bear-union-salaries, get outsourced?

No matter how much progressives like Gregoire raise taxes, there won't be enough money for every scheme, and eventually, jobs will get cut. Should you really be making what you are making for counting votes? You might think so, but the free market would probably disagree.

Posted by: Jeff B. on March 13, 2006 12:03 PM
28. Judy,

Complain to Gregoire.
She is the one with foot in mouth disease. We are merely having some merriment at her expense.

There were problems with the election.
Teamsters counted the ballots.
Gregoire thanks the Teamsters for giving her the election.

If I were Gregoire I would have been very cognizant of my choice of words regarding the election in that venue.

It is demonstrative of her judgement that she was not.

Posted by: JCM on March 13, 2006 12:11 PM
29. Yes, JCM, and I'd say demonstrative of her arrogance, too.

Posted by: katomar on March 13, 2006 12:15 PM
30. Palouse, your quote from Ben Franklin sounds a lot like this one.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government.
It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury.”
-- Sir Alex Fraser Tytler (1742-1813), Scottish jurist and historian, professor of Universal History at Edinburgh University.

Or this Franklin quote may explain the democraps too:
"He that is of the opinion money will do everything may well be suspected of doing everything for money."
Benjamin Franklin
US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, & printer (1706 - 1790)

Posted by: Obi-Wan on March 13, 2006 04:19 PM
31. Sorry for the long post, but found some more quotes I couldn't resist.

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. --C.S. Lewis

Any measure that establishes legal charity on a permanent basis and gives it an administrative form thereby creates an idle and lazy class, living at the expense of the industrial and working class. This, at least, is its inevitable consequence, if not the immediate result. --Alexis de Tocqueville

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents. --James Madison, principal author of the US Constitution

The American Republic will fall when the politicians learn they can bribe people with their own money. --Alexis de Tocqueville

Nothing is easier than spending public money. It does not appear to belong to anybody. The temptation is overwhelming to bestow it on somebody. --Calvin Coolidge

With respect to the words "general welfare," I have always regarded them as qualified by the details of powers (enumerated in the Constitution) connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proof was not contemplated by its creators. --James Madison

When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators. --P. J. O'Rourke

I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive. --Thomas Jefferson

And finally, some computer humor:
There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't. --Anon.

Posted by: Obi-Wan on March 13, 2006 04:35 PM
32. Obi,

And which are you?

Thanks for the quotes; at sometime I have read most of them. I had completely forgotten the C.S. Lewis quote.

Engineer humor:
Line in the restroom at a break between meetings watches as an engineer pulls off sheet after sheet of paper towels, he notices everyone in line watching him. The then says "At IBM they teach us to be thorough!"

Next engineer meticulously use one paper towel and states, "At HP they teach us to be efficient!"

Next engineer skips washing his hands, as he walks out announces, "At Apple they teach us not to pee on our hands!"

Posted by: JCM on March 13, 2006 04:54 PM
33. Judy, Judy, Judy,

Of course SoundPolitics had to imply that you’re a crook. They don’t have squat to prove it:

“...The Secretary of State’s Office received no information from any of the state’s 39 counties that any election worker either removed ballots or added ballots. Specifically with reference to King County, there is no evidence that the significant errors which occurred resulted from intentional misconduct or someone’s desire to manipulate the election. There is no evidence that anybody associated with any of the candidates in the governor’s race had anything to do with causing the errors. There is no evidence that has been produced in this court to suggest that errors resulted from partisan bias... the various polling sites across the State were populated by inspectors, judges, Accuvote judges, observers, attorneys and the media. No testimony has been placed before the Court to suggest fraud or intentional misconduct. Election officials attempted to perform their responsibilities in a fair and impartial manner. There is no evidence before the court to question ballot security as to those ballots actually counted.”

Here at SoundPolitics, they say that Mr. Rossi is a brilliant, visionary, tough leader, who appointed a legal team so completely incompetent that it spent six months and millions of Republican dollars not finding your obvious criminality. SoundPolitics says that our entire state needs this “leadership”, and that our tax monies should go where Mr. Rossi so directs them. These reasons, and many, many more, show why you, Judy, should not wander in from the reality-based community and expect decent treatment.

BTW, any Republican who spins guilt-by-association innuendoes obviously doesn’t know Jack about the national political situation. Am I right, Rabbi Lapin?

Posted by: Paddy Mac on March 13, 2006 05:05 PM
34. JCM, do I understand binary?

1

Posted by: Obi-Wan on March 13, 2006 05:17 PM
35. So for the sake of brevity son, due enlighten the unwashed masses as to why someone should be REQUIRED to join the union as a temp in order to count ballots? Is this Government at its best or what?

Perhaps,in a gesture of fairness, King County will locate its new centralized election megacomplex in say Snoqualmie or North Bend or perhaps Maple Valley? Ron could finally hire people from Rural Eastern King County with some of those high paying Teamster wages and make good on his Rural Economic developement plan at the same time! Or do you think because Rural Eastern King county IMPLIES Republican leanings he will want to keep it DOWNTOWN.

Posted by: Mac's Daddy on March 13, 2006 05:28 PM
36. any Republican who spins guilt-by-association innuendoes obviously doesn’t know Jack about the national political situation.

Oh, you mean how like national Democrats are trying to criminalize any Republican who has ever met JACK.

So you think you know who got the most legal votes in the governors race? Why don't you enlighten us.

Posted by: Palouse on March 13, 2006 05:32 PM
37. Paddy Mac is a left wing kool aid drinker and their answer would be too predictable. As if Paddy Mac has ever proposed any constructive solution. What a waste !

We are intelligent enough over here at SP to know that Rossi would have been a way more effective and fiscally responsible governor.
It's because of goofballs like you and your ilk that this state has to suffer through the socialist crap and corruption that the State Democrat Party brings to the table.

Posted by: KS on March 13, 2006 07:05 PM
38. obi,

1

I have that posted in my cube at work.

Posted by: JCM on March 13, 2006 07:59 PM
39. Palouse,

Judge Bridges' ruling clearly suggests that most of the felons voted for Rossi. After Bridges eviscerates the "proportional deduction" suggestion for the ecological fallacy that it is, he notes the gender of a felon suggests how that felon voted. Most felons are men; one candidate was a sitting, female Attorney General-- an extremely unlikely person for them to favor.

Posted by: Paddy Mac on March 13, 2006 10:25 PM
40. Paddy Mac - you are delusional and full of bilge. Judge Bridges never said any such thing. That is what the Democrap lawyers tried to lead people to believe with their circular logic, crafted by used car salesman. Neither side presented a clear and convincing argument for proportional deduction as the Judge stated in his decision. The only additional votes that were deducted were 5 votes for Rossi (1 for each of 5 signed affadavits, that declared that they voted for Rossi. The Repubs, to their chagrin did not bother to attempt to get any affadavits from felons who voted for the other candidate(s).

I think that most everyone who read this blog already knew that anyway, so I said for those leftist trolls who don't recognize and can't handle the truth.

Posted by: KS on March 13, 2006 10:35 PM
41. Judge Bridges wrote, "[t]he only voters who testified at trial gave credible testimony that they voted for Rossi or Bennett. Yet, the proportionate reduction method advocated by petitioners and their experts would have partially deducted these votes from Ms. Gregoire's total because these individuals lived in her leaning precincts. The Court finds that the statistical methods used [to support proportional reduction] ignore other significant factors in determining how a peron is likely to vote. In this case, in light of the candidates, gender may be as significant or a more significant factor than others. The illegal voters were disproportionately male and less likely to have voted for the female candidate."

In the preceding pages, Judges Bridges rips the proportional reduction theory apart on general terms.

Next time, please read his ruling before you tell us what it says.

Posted by: Paddy Mac on March 13, 2006 11:55 PM
42. Paddy Mac, Judge Bridges contradicts himself. First he says that the statistical analysis offered by the Rs ignores other significant factors, then goes on to declare, without evidence, that men are less likely to have voted for the female candidate without a detailed analysis of their race, union membership, religious beliefs, etc., that may have more to do with whom they voted for than their gender.

Posted by: Obi-Wan on March 14, 2006 12:02 AM
43. "Election officials attempted to perform their responsibilities in a fair and impartial manner. There is no evidence before the court to question ballot security as to those ballots actually counted.”

Yeah, whatever, a$$wipe. And after Fraudoire was behind in the election count, and the first recount, it took King Co. what, a half-dozen or so times of "just happening" to "find" ballots that were "innocently overlooked" in the previous counts? How many times did they "just happen to find" ballots? But, sure, it's all just innocent, human error. Yeah, sure, you stupid dolt.

This slimeball really wants us to believe that there isn't something fishy going on here? What kind of brainless idiot really thinks that everyone out there is stupid enough to believe that?

Posted by: Interested Observer on March 14, 2006 05:35 AM
44. There's a thing called the "gender gap" in American politics. For the last twenty-five years (at least) women have voted in greater numbers for Democrats, and men for Republicans. Judge Bridges didi not rely just on the evidence presented to his court; his excellent dismantling of the proportional reduction method shows his keen grasp of statistical analysis.

Posted by: Paddy Mac on March 14, 2006 06:40 AM
45. Well, if the Republicans have a gender "gap" among women voters, the stinking 'Rats have a gender chasm among male voters. Sure, that chasm might shrink from the size of the Grand Canyon to something like the Snake River Canyon if you have a region or state where there is a sizable portion of girly-men, but on a national average the 'Rats are swimming against the tide when it comes to the guys.

Posted by: Interested Observer on March 14, 2006 08:03 AM
46. So According to Paddy Mac and his interpretation the "JUDGE" was finding that Felons were more likely to be men and thus more likely to vote for Rossi the Republican rather than the Queen Democrat and "former AG"? Following that logic, the 1,600 Felons probably voted for Bush too right? I don't think so. They probably voted for Kerry the former prosecutor and Gregoire the former AG because they were both soft on crime, a subject near and dear to their hearts.

Back to the topic of Teamsters and elections, wasn't it the Kennedy adminstration that prosecuted Hoffa's Daddy for the way he ran the organization? The apple doesn't fall far from the tree right Paddy?

Posted by: Just Wondering on March 14, 2006 08:25 AM
47. Which is why I am have been saying all along is what really stinks about this whole mess is the crap about King Co. supposedly "finding" all of these "uncounted" ballots what, six or seven different times? This entire debacle came of the questionable handling of this election in King Co., especially suspicious because they kept "finding" votes and counting and recounting until Fraudoire finally "won". That is what stinks in this whole mess. The felon votes are really a side issue, and it was a tactical blunder on the part of Rossi's legal team to invest so much in that relatively minor issue, because it is not what made the difference. The failure of King Co. to conduct an honest election did. Fact is that those in charge of elections in King Co. are incompetent at best, corrupt at worst, and probably threw this election to Fraudoire. Anyone who tells me that they trust a system that keeps "finding" extra votes after the fact will have a hard time convincing me that they are rational. When "uncounted" ballots keep "just turning up" after an election is over, and when that results in an overturning of a result that was obtained and verified, then a rational person can't help but be skeptical.

Posted by: Interested Observer on March 14, 2006 08:46 AM
48. I would like to know when the Legislator seats for this year are voted on so I can vote Chrissy's cronies out!!! What better way to let her know what we think of this whole mess!! Plus it will render her powerless THAT APPEALS TO CONSIDERING THE HEAVY TAX $$$$ BURDEN BEING FORCED DOWN OUR THROATS!!!!!

Posted by: Laurie on March 14, 2006 09:37 AM
49. JCM, there's no place like 127.0.0.1

Posted by: Obi-Wan on March 14, 2006 01:54 PM
50. Paddy Mac, yes, there is a gender gap, but that's in the country as a whole. What you're implying is that ALL men are more likely to vote for the male candidate than the female candidate. Party affiliation and race are probably more determinate of voting patterns than gender. Are you implying that black males and jewish males (who tend to vote for democrats) are more likely to change their historic voting patterns and vote for a male republican than female democrat? If so, there's no hope for you.

Posted by: Obi-Wan on March 14, 2006 02:11 PM
51. As Judge Bridges noted, no evidence exists to support the claim that anyone tried to 'throw' the election to anyone. All of the mistakes made, in every county, were innocent ones. He notes that the proportional reduction method proposed by the plaintiffs was unscientific, a fallacy so well known that textbooks on statistical analysis have a name for it: the 'ecological fallacy'.

I do not know exactly what evidence Judge Bridges used to support his claim that male felons voted more for Rossi. I do know that the specific use of the ecological fallacy claimed, in this case, that male felons had voted-- and overwhelmingly so, in numbers sufficient to change the outcome of the election-- for a sitting, female law-enforcement official. That claim, loudly repeated by plaintiffs, and their supporters here at SoundPolitics, does not even pass the giggle test.
Specifically, one of Attorney General Gregoire's highest-profile cases involved one Thomas Stewart, millionaire contributor to the WA State GOP, who plea-bargained with her, on criminal charges related to his attempt to alter election laws in Seattle. Even the suggestion that male criminals voted mostly for her insults the intelligence of each and every listener.

The plaintiffs based their case, in part, on the 'fact' that illegal votes threw the election to Gregoire. Yet, in open court, they could not produce a single piece of evidence to support this allegation. Every last bit of evidence introduced shows or suggests that felons voted for Rossi. No evidence-- nothing at all-- appeared in court to counteract that idea. The utter failure of the plaintiffs to show any fraud, any wrongdoing, any criminal intent, anything at all beyond sloppy work here and there, makes a prosecution effectively impossible. Any prosecutor who attempts discovery now will face the charge of wasting public money, and of pursuing a partisan agenda with taxpayers' dollars.

All of the evidence suggests that sloppy work in King County, and failure to compile a statewide database of felons, almost put the wrong person in our Governor's office. It is Governor Gregoire's supporters who should be most angry at King County's Elections Department, and the past Secretary of Washington State!

Posted by: Paddy Mac on March 14, 2006 10:43 PM
52. And you don't find it at all troubling or suspicious that in King Co. alone they kept "finding" so-called "lost" ballots what, six or seven different times? It doesn't raise any doubts at all in your mind that these so-called "lost" ballots kept turning up time and again at different points during the so-called "recount", and that eventually the results of the original and first recount were reversed when these so-called "lost" ballots were thrown into the mix? I mean, you're perfectly fine with that? It gives you some measure of confidence in the system and the people who run it? If it does, is it because you are satisfied with the performance of the system and these people, or is it because it gave you the result you wanted? That fact that you likely have an illegitimate governor sitting in your capitol doesn't raise any concerns for you?

I'm sorry, but I'm not that stupid or gullible. This whole lousy, stinking "election" undermines the basic principles of elective government. This so-called third "recount" wasn't that at all, it was a process rigged with an outcome in mind, and that was that Fraudoire would be installed as governor. Among the things that makes the "decision" by Bridges so idiotic is the fact that he says, in effect, that yes, the system is mucked up, but that voters have to fix the system, presumably by voting. How can you fix something that is broken by doing the very thing it cannot legitimately do, that is, ensure a fair election? The second idiotic point is that there was an acknowledgement that there were thousands of illegal votes, but, hey, we can't do anything about it, the result, however flawed, must stand. So then a reasonable person has to ask, why bother? I mean, if you're going to have a flawed process and it doesn't matter what the result of the flawed process is, it has to stand, what incentive is there to ever fix the crooked system?

Posted by: Interested Observer on March 15, 2006 05:35 AM
53. Very common sense, Mr. Observer. But the other side quotes a rushed trial and other gibberish in the form of statistics to demean what to you and me is common sense.

But, have you checked out State Law RCW15.36? That is the law that bans the use of common sense in government. If anyone is caught using common sense in State government, they will be immediately dismissed.

Posted by: swatter on March 15, 2006 07:21 AM
54. I just had a friend tell me that some time ago Sunny Kobe Cook ("former owner of Sleep Country USA") was investigated by Gregoire's office for fradulant advertising. I almost cracked a gut on that one, she runs on a no new tax platform in this state and she preaches on fraudulant advertising.

Posted by: GS on March 15, 2006 08:51 PM
55. I find it annoying that King County didn't do a better job, since their job allowed Mr. Rossi to claim the illusion of a lead on election night. I find it annoying that the Secretary of State's office allowed 1,600+ (not "thousands") of felons to vote. Database technology sufficient to track voters had existed for at least ten years prior to the 2004 election, making the felons' votes especially egregious.

All of the recount procedures followed state law. When any statewide election has a difference of less than 2,000 votes, an automatic recount starts. Anyone may pay for a third count, after the mandated recount finishes. The third count, if performed, becomes the final count. In the lawsuit filed specifically to introduce evidence of wrongdoing, no such evidence appeared. Many counties found ballots during the recounts; the largest county found the largest number. Citizens testified before the state Supreme Court, that they had attempted to vote legally, but the clerks had lost their ballots. No legal voter should have to go to court to get his or her vote counted, and the primary fault for that rests with the King County elections department.

Humans handled millions of ballots, and many other ancilliary pieces of paper; at most, several thousand mistakes were made. Judge Bridges acidly noted that King County could have done better, but that errors occur in every election. The 2005 elections showed improvement, despite illegal tampering in the final week of the general election. Anyone who disagrees with the 2004 final certification can complain to Judge Bridges; no other opinion will ever matter.

By the way, when Judge Bridges dismissed the proportional reduction theory, he wrote that the petitioners created it specifically to procure their desired result, Mr. Rossi's election. That was the only attempted fraud during that entire election, and Judge Bridges caught it perfectly.

Posted by: Paddy Mac on March 15, 2006 10:05 PM
56. Anyone who disagrees with the 2004 final certification can complain to Judge Bridges; no other opinion will ever matter.

That's the problem. "Judge" Bridges proved himself to be a brainless dolt when he made the comment that, in effect, the voters had to fix the broken, corrupt, inept election system (in King Co., specifically), by, what, presumably voting. What kind of idiot says that, yes, I see, the mechanism is broken, but you have no choice but to use that same broken, corrupt mechanism to fix it? Ever tried to fix a broken machine with the same broken machine? Ever tried to repair a broken hammer with a broken hammer? Do you understand the problem? If something is broken, you need to look beyond the thing that is broken in order to repair it. Anyone with half a brain understands this, but evidently the point is lost on dimbutts like Bridges, and, most certainly, 'Rats. So "complaining to Bridges" won't do any good, because the guy is a crumbbum who doesn't have the sense to see a wrong and try to right it.

So, I guess because your slimemold candidate "won", you are okay with the fact that, time and again, during the "recount", more and more "lost" ballots kept turning up. How many times did that happen in King Co. alone, perhaps a half dozen times, maybe more? You're going to sit there and tell me that you're all fine and happy with that, because the lousy 'Rat "won" the election. And it doesn't raise any kind of doubt in your mind at all about the legitimacy of the process, or the result. Simply because "state law was followed", you are okay with hundreds, perhaps thousands, of ballots whose integrity and custody is, at minimum, in doubt, were added into the total vote after the fact, when the polls were closed, when the election had been tabulated and checked and certified. You have no problem with someone coming in at the last minute and saying, "hey, wait a minute, I just 'happened' to find these extra ballots, let's throw them in with everyone else's who legitimately voted on election day", and never mind that you are, in effect, disenfranchising an equal number of honest citizens who took the time and trouble to go to the polls and legally vote when they were supposed to. Well, you may be happy with that, but I'm not that stupid or gullible. A reasonable person would look at that and be suspicious enough to legitimately question the validity of the whole process, and be inclined to do something drastic about it.

Posted by: Interested Observer on March 16, 2006 05:53 AM
57. The state Supreme Court ruled twice during the recount. On one occasion, the Democrats attempted to get a court order, to count ballots which had been correctly ruled invalid. The Court rejected their request unanimously. On the other occasion, the Republicans asked the Court to disqualify ballots which had been lost by clerical error, but whose citizens had clearly voted legally. In that case, the Court also unanimously rejected the claim. Valid votes should always be counted; not counting them directly disenfranchises their owners. Invalid votes should be excluded, for the reason that you gave. Please do not lecture me any more on that last point; felons attempted to cancel my vote, and then, adding insult, the plaintiffs in the challenge attempted to subtract part of my vote because a felon voted near me. I can clearly see the problems with the system, but we should not attempt anything drastic.

Voting is a right, not a privilege. The government cannot burden the citizen’s exercise of the franchise with frivolous or onerous requirements. Given a choice between counting or discarding a suspect ballot, we choose the former. Like it or not, that is our Constitution and our law. All of the ‘reforms’ proposed here-- drastic measures indeed, some of them-- would place undue burdens on my right to vote, and so I reject all of them. Judge Bridges counted 1,678 illegal votes-- out of how many million cast? That’s simply not a huge problem, and claiming that it is just sounds either shrill or silly.

Events can appear suspicious, and yet have innocent causes. The ballots found in each county tended to reflect the overall vote in that county. That is a very powerful suggestion that nothing untoward had happened; intentional exclusion of ballots should show a bias. (If you divide the number of votes found in each county by the total number cast in that county, you’ll see that King County had not the largest per-voter number of ballots found.) All of the votes found in King County fit this county’s very liberal voting pattern, and so they tended to favor the liberal candidate. Judge Bridges was more than clear in dismissing every claim that you recounted, concerning the integrity and value of the ballots found, and the behavior of the officials who found and counted them. Sloppiness, while annoying or even frustrating, does not make for a crime, and Judge Bridges dismissed the plaintiffs’ case because they found sloppiness in one county, not fraud or other illegal activity anywhere. He found absolutely no evidence to prove that illegal votes altered the election’s result. (Not ‘suggest’, not ‘imply’, not ‘look suspicious’-- ‘prove’. The law required proof. The plaintiffs knew this when they began.) Every piece of evidence has suggested that illegal votes gave Mr. Rossi his supposed lead, and thus suggests that the final count was indeed the best one.

Yes, I do say that if we follow the law, and find no evidence of wrongdoing, then we accept the result as the best one that we can get. Elections officials at various levels of our government have made efforts to improve, and it appears that those efforts are succeeding. I wasn’t happy about the sloppy work done in 2004, and I’m not yet satisfied with the current situation, but I believe that doing anything drastic would simply make matters worse.

Judge Bridges’ rejection of the proportional reduction method, and his cogent explanation of why it was worse than worthless, demonstrates his good education and good judgment. (I am an engineer. The very first thing I ever did, as a paid member of my profession, was to conduct a statistical analysis; I have used statistical methods extensively in every engineering job I’ve ever had.) Calling him names, especially inaccurate ones, does your cause no good.

Posted by: Paddy Mac on March 16, 2006 08:12 PM
58. I can clearly see the problems with the system, but we should not attempt anything drastic.

So you can see the problems with the system, but don't want to attempt anything "drastic". So, again, you appear to be okay with the fact that the "system" can allow a particular county, especially a heaviliy liberal one, as you note, to keep "finding" so-called "lost" ballots, time and time again, during the so-called "recount" (really a recanvass), and you see no reason for being suspicious of the process or skeptical of the result, presumably as long as "your" candidate" comes out ahead after the "recount". See, that's the problem, and if you were honest with yourself and others here, you'd admit that this is the reason. You're okay with "finding" all those "lost" ballots, until they cause your candidate to "lose".

Voting is a right, not a privilege.

All the more reason to be suspicious of "found" ballots after the election is over.

The government cannot burden the citizen’s exercise of the franchise with frivolous or onerous requirements. Given a choice between counting or discarding a suspect ballot, we choose the former. Like it or not, that is our Constitution and our law. All of the ‘reforms’ proposed here-- drastic measures indeed, some of them-- would place undue burdens on my right to vote, and so I reject all of them.

A "burden", eh? Just how much of a "burden" is it to ask supposedly intelligent people to register correctly according to the rules, to show up at their designated polling place on the appointed date, and cast their ballot in person? Anyone who can't manage even those simple things is either a useless, lazy slug of a waste of human flesh, or is totally brain-dead.

Judge Bridges counted 1,678 illegal votes-- out of how many million cast? That’s simply not a huge problem, and claiming that it is just sounds either shrill or silly.

No, not a problem, it only allows an illegitimate "governor" to take office. Nope, nothing wrong with that, nothing about that which causes any loss of faith and confidence in our system of government, no siree.

What is silly is not to be suspicious of a process that allows votes to be added to the total after the election, so as to reverse the outcome tabulated and verified. Anyone who looks the other way at such an occurrence is either ignorant or a willing accomplice in the fraud. In either case, I have no use for them.

Events can appear suspicious, and yet have innocent causes.

Yeah, sure they are, sure they do. And let me know when Elvis gets here.

And, on an unrelated topic, although you brought it up, I've probably forgotten more engineering than you'll ever know, going on some 40 years in the business, now. And one thing I have learned is that there is something more important than being able to do any kind of "statistical analysis", as useful (or not) that may be in dealing with a particular problem. And that is, being able to see things as they are and tell it like it is. IOW, valuing the truth. And the truth of this matter is that there are enough legitimate questions and doubts that one simply cannot turn away and accept them in good conscience. If that is so, to stand by and do nothing in the face of a grave injustice is as wrong as the injustice itself. Those who are content to accept a fraudulent outcome simply because "the law says so" or "I got the result I wanted" are themselves complicit in the fraud, for they turn their eyes from the truth and accept a lie in its place. And as the engineer who willfully accepts what he knows to be faulty data and analyses simply to obtain the result he desires beforehand pays an awful price in the end for his dishonesty, so will a society that willingly accepts dishonesty and fraud and incompetence in its systems of government reap a bitter harvest, one that will, if unchecked, destroy that government and society.

Posted by: Interested Observer on March 17, 2006 05:09 AM
59. Neither the Republican Party, nor the plaintiffs in the election challenge lawsuit, nor this blog, nor any of its commenters, has ever produced a single piece of evidence to show that any illegal activity occurred in the 2004 elections here. A Republican Judge in a Republican county re-certified the election in favor of the rightful winner, dismissing or discarding all of the purported 'proof' of an invalid election. That result will stand for the entire future history of Washington State.

Engineering consists of applying scientific and mathematical principles to the solution of practical problems. Judge Bridges accurately dismanted the proportional deduction scheme, and labeled it as the ecological fallacy that it was. This showed his keen grasp of this highly techincal issue. As a practicing engineer, whose work involves such distinctions, I salute his erudition.

Interested Observer, I accept your admission. I agree that you have forgotten either sound scientific and mathematical principles, or the proper way in which to apply them. Your continued insistence of fraud, contradicted by all of the evidence, demonstrates your unscientific worldview. The same verdict holds for all who still decry Judge Bridges ruling.

Posted by: Paddy Mac on March 17, 2006 09:45 PM
60. Sure, I don't care if you accuse me of "forgetting" scientific or mathematical principles (even though I could probably think you under the table on that last subject), because I can do something that evidently you cannot, which is have the integrity and moral courage to see the truth and tell it like it is. And I will value the ability to discern the truth over any of your purported mathematical abilities. Anyone who doesn't have the brains or common sense to be suspicious and skeptical of an election where there were maybe a dozen or so instances of "finding" batches of lost ballots in a heavily 'Rat county which "just happened" to provide a margin of "victory" for the 'Rat candidate, isn't worth bothering with. So while you may tout yourself as some great engineering wizard, remember that there are more important things than manipulating equations, things like recognizing injustice and standing against it. The fact that you got some judicial flack to uphold your fraudulent result doesn't trump common sense. So go ahead and revel in your fraudulent "victory", you won't be alone, and history shows that there are plenty of others who thought they "won" something, but in the end lost everything.

Posted by: Interested Observer on March 18, 2006 08:19 AM
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