A: In Ohio the county prosecutors do their jobs. In Ohio there are actual consequences for election workers who violate election laws.
Today's Cleveland Plain-Dealer reports: "3rd worker indicted in probe of vote recount"
A third employee at the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections has been indicted as part of an investigation into the mishandling of ballots during the 2004 presidential recount.And these are relatively minor violations compared to, say, King County's as yet unacknowledged unlawful tabulation of hundreds of ineligible ballots that could easily have changed the outcome of the governor's race. Norman Maleng, call your office. Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at March 09, 2006 04:12 PM | Email ThisJacqueline Maiden, who was Elections Division director during the December 2004 recount, has been charged with six counts - three misdemeanors and three felonies - of failing to follow Ohio laws on how ballots are selected and reviewed during a recount. Maiden is the third highest ranking board employee.
...
In a December letter to the board and Mason, [a candidate's attorney] charged that the elections board staff broke the law by failing to randomly select precincts to be recounted. Kerger also charged that the board staff failed to investigate discrepancies between the recount and original vote totals.
I admit...I'm not too familiar with Ohio's government....though it's my understanding the Governor is Repubican and I hear that Republicans have a majority in their state legislature...And Cleveland is known to be very Liberal Democrat.. I do not know which party the County Prosecutors lean toward...
This is just criminal in itself!:
" Erie County Prosecutor Kevin Baxter, who conducted the investigation at the request of Cuyahoga County Prosecutor Bill Mason, said he was surprised that the board has allowed the employees to continue working. Mason recused himself because his office represents the elections board."
Posted by: Deborah on March 9, 2006 06:00 PMRob McKenna is just a guilty as anyone for not investingating and prosecuting election fraud in Washington.
Contrary to what he claims, he has Constitutional and statutory obligations and duties to investigate and prosecute these crimes.
McKenna is neglecting and refusing to perform his duties to the same degree, or worse, that Sam Reed is performing the duties of Secretary of State.
Is it any wonder that Sam Reed didn't do his job when he knew McKenna wouldn't do his?
Ohio has a different type of alleged voter fraud problem, dealing more with Diebold machines, I believe. The rabid left in Ohio could not generate enough substantive evidence there and the corruption of the left in Cleveland nearly rose to the level of corruption in King County - almost but not quite. First off, Ohio is having an investigation, while the Feds ignored investigating King County, which I always felt was neglect of duty. Can the Federal Attorney, McKay be recalled ?
Posted by: KS on March 9, 2006 08:18 PMMeanwhile, back here in Seattle, we liberals still believe one Republican’s views on the 2004 Governor’s election. In the only opinion that will ever legally matter, he found no evidence of wrongdoing, no evidence of tampering, no evidence of any effort to throw the election. He found absolutely no evidence of fraud, even though the plantiffs had promised just that. He completely rejected every claim the plaintiffs made, and dismissed their lawsuit with prejudice. He found that fallible humans can make mistakes, especially when moving huge numbers of pieces of paper over many months. Anyone who does not like this reality can castigate the folks who credited 436 voters with 444 votes, even though every one of those voters was supposedly in the same building on the same day. Further ire against election-law sloppiness can be directed at anyone stupid enough to claim that residents of 320 Cedar Street in Seattle had illegally registered at 320 Cedar Avenue in Forks.
Other Republicans agree with us Seattle liberals, too. Like the Republican prosecutors at the county, state, and federal levels, not one of whom has shown the slightest interest in any of the "facts" blathered here at such useless length and volume. They all know of Judge Bridges ruling, don't ya think?
Posted by: Paddy Mac on March 9, 2006 08:33 PMBridges did not find enough evidence of wrongdoing to overturn the 2004 election and he was right. However, he stated that he was disturbed by the culture (of alleged corruption) at King County Elections, who successfully stonewalled enough to be acquitted - but most anyone with a conscience knows that these ba$t**ds are as guilty as sin. The Repubs blew the chance last May and need to take lessons in being tenacious guttersnipes from the Dems.
What Dean Logan and the SoS are doing with the voter registration databases is pathetic and probably deserving of legal reprimand. Both of them are not fit to be in their current positions.
Posted by: KS on March 9, 2006 09:01 PM Your right they were never going to win based
on the case they presented. The State Gop spent
millions of dollars on attorneys that had
almost know experience in election law
cases.With the kind of money they spent
they could have the best.But Vance just
had to use his cronies instead.
To this day I am convinced had they used
someone like the landmark legal foundation
who specialize in election law the outcome
would have been different.I have to conclude
that the state gop didn't care if they won.
For those of you who say well they spent
a lot of money for somebody who didn't care
if they won.Well let me give you an example
of what I mean. David Adams who has for the
past few years lived here in washington.Was
intrical part of the mess in florida in the
2000 election.David was knee deep in as part
of bushes election team.In other words he
had a great deal of experience in contested
elections.David called Vance and offered to help.
Now you would think the state gop would jump
at that.Oh know in fact Vance never called him
back.
So yeah Pac Mac your right they lost.Because
they didn't know what they were doing.
Give me a break, the Queen cheated her way in. She's a terrible leader who has no business running the state.
Too bad the efforts here will benefit you as well.
Posted by: SP Fan on March 9, 2006 09:03 PMThe key is "placed before the Court". One of the reasons that no such testimony was placed before the Court is that King County succeeded in sandbagging discovery requests. Another reason is that King County employees gave misleading answers in depositions. You might think this is acceptable. But some of us hold our elections and our "public servants" to a higher standard.
Posted by: Stefan Sharkansky on March 9, 2006 09:13 PMBefore you go singing the fight song, you need a team with the resolve to fight, which this state's GOP lacks in a most spectacular way.
Posted by: ERNurse on March 9, 2006 09:22 PMCleveland, Toledo, Youngstown... all extremely Democratic. I don't know about Cleveland and Toledo, but Youngstown typically has zero Republicans in city government, and Mahoning County typically has two - on the election board, because it's state law to have two from each party. (They did have a one-term Republican representative... in 1980)
Paddy, it's not the Republicans who have "gone to Ohio" to feel better; Democrats nationwide raised the red herring of election fraud here... even before the election took place. Funny, though, how it's not the Republican election workers who keep being prosecuted for election fraud... even in strongly (almost exclusively in some cases) Democratic areas.
}8-
Posted by: Snowy Owl on March 10, 2006 06:06 AMFeelings, nothing more than feelings...
Posted by: Obi-Wan on March 10, 2006 07:27 AMHaving viewed most of the trial I can only say your conclusions are not supported.
The bar set by the court was impossible to overcome. The court agreed that there were a number of votes wrongfully counted. The bar set by the court was to prove how the wrongfully counted votes were cast. Given that the actual vote is a "secret" ballot, it is impossible to determine how a given voter cast their vote.
Testimony of illegal voters provided by Democrats was allowed by the court and the final tally was changed by the court. This farce demonstrated that illegal votes were counted. As such your claim of no fraud was ever proved, etc. is actually false as the court did find that there were illegal votes. However the court was unable to determine how the illegal voters actually voted. And the proportional analysis methodology offered by the Republican attorney's was denied.
The number of illegal votes exceeded the difference of the governor's race.
.
Posted by: Snuffy on March 10, 2006 07:47 AMWill you hold your bank, doctor or employer accountable to the same degree of accuracy as your Democratic canvassers?
If the answer is yes, then I understand your rational. If you accept less than you earned from your employer or deposited in your bank, then you are a victim of a liberal education and math is not one your skills. If you accept a doctor amputating the wrong limb, then you have my sympathy. Please appreciate that damage is routinely done without fraud. The bank may make an error. Intent becomes questionable when the error is frequent and systemic. Culture becomes evident when the error is denied or suppressed. Events strongly suggest that King County is culturally corrupt.
The doctor may error when a wrong limb is amputated one out of 100,000 operations. The doctor has a serious problem when the wrong limb is amputated 5 out of 100,000 operations. The patient(s) do not have to prove fraud in seeking damages. They just have to make an an appearance in court.
Stephan is demonstrating that King County is actively suppressing evidence by not responding to requests of public documents. King County may be reacting to fear as the documents may clearly show the willful cover up that occurred during past elections. There is no doubt that illegal votes were cast and counted. There is no doubt that voters were betrayed. The question is by whom and why?
Posted by: Snuffy on March 10, 2006 08:20 AMAt least a few of these legislative moves were apparently stolen by the Democrats from the draft of the Republican commitment to Washington. Very poor political strategy ! Why couldn't this have been held back until the Legislature was over ? Unbelievable !
The Republicans in this state must be content at being second fiddle. I don't just pay attention to words - I look at actions :(
One of the reasons that no such testimony was placed before the Court is that King County succeeded in sandbagging discovery requests. Another reason is that King County employees gave misleading answers in depositions. You might think this is acceptable. But some of us hold our elections and our "public servants" to a higher standard.
Have any proof of that? Has the Republican Federal Prosecutor or the Republican Prosecutor of King County, or the Republican Attorney General of Washington brought any charges?
Of course not.
And if the GOP was being sandbagged, they could have gone to Judge Bridge and asked him to force discovery, or to postpone the hearing. They did neither.
Let's face it, the difference between Ohio and Washington is that while mistakes were made in Washington, there was no fraud. Judge Bridges made it very clear. The only fraudulent votes were those cast for Rossi:
"After spending millions of dollars, months on investigations and two weeks in trial, the net result for the Republicans yesterday was that Dino Rossi lost four votes from his total, pushing Gov. Christine Gregoire's victory margin to 133"
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/227408_election07.html
Its been almost a year, and you still can't admit the truth, can you.
Posted by: JDB on March 10, 2006 02:52 PMI checked it out and sure enough, she was.
Nope, no liberal media bias there.
Posted by: pbj on March 10, 2006 11:52 PMNow that you mention it, these excessive requests for public records waste ever-more of my taxpayer money to fill, and prove nothing that we did not learn from Judge Bridges.
“PS Since we finally have the State Database, there is clear evidence of folks that voted twice in Washington (in 2 different County's)....not that it matters much to you.”
Please tell the Secretary of State to do his job, since this clearly falls outside the jurisdiction of any one county. Thanks also for mentioning that counties other than King allowed illegal votes-- Mr. Rossi’s supporters have had trouble comprehending that point.
“Bridges did not find enough evidence of wrongdoing to overturn the 2004 election and he was right. However, he stated that he was disturbed by the culture (of alleged corruption) at King County Elections, who successfully stonewalled enough to be acquitted...”
Judge Bridges wrote NOTHING about corruption in King County, since no evidence for any appeared in his courtroom-- even though it would have provided the plaintiffs with some of what they needed, to set aside the election. He blasted the culture of laziness at King County’s Records and Elections Department, and rightly so. Had they not misplaced hundreds of valid ballots, Mr. Rossi would never have had a “lead”, and therefore no justification for his subsequent exercise in vanity, which wasted Judge Bridges’ time.
“Your [sic] right they were never going to win based on the case they presented. The State Gop spent
millions of dollars on attorneys that had almost know experience in election law cases.With the kind of money they spent they could have the best.But Vance just had to use his cronies instead.
“To this day I am convinced had they used someone like the landmark legal foundation
who specialize in election law the outcome would have been different.I have to conclude
that the state gop didn't care if they won.”
So, they wasted millions of campaign dollars on preparing a case, and then didn’t care if they won? A simpler explanation, the one Judge Bridges gave: they had no case.
“Puddy Whack- Think what you want you DREAMER. I disagree. We all know how those votes stacked up. The King County machine reporting in statewide last. Mystery votes found and counted. The Blathering of Count Every Vote.”
King County reporting last happens in every election, because of the sheer size (1/3 of the state’s voters) and the large use of absentee ballots. (Washington State allows a ballot post-marked on Election Day to count-- not all ballots need arive by Election Day.) Ms. Cantwell defeated Senator Gorton in 2000, only after all of the votes coming in by mail were counted. He had a ‘lead’ on Election Night, just like Mr. Rossi did, four years later. Both the late reporting, and the very liberal slant of those last votes, surprise only those persons who have no knowledge of this state’s political history.
When hundreds of valid votes were found in King County, the GOP sued to block their counting. (What, do they think that we’re running a democracy or something?) These innocent voters had to appeal to our state’s Supreme Court to get their votes counted, even though they’d voted legally, and could not control the clerical errors which misplaced their ballots.
‘Paddy Mac -- you are correct that Judge Bridges ruled that (these were his exact words) "No testimony has been placed before the Court to suggest fraud or intentional misconduct."
‘The key is "placed before the Court". One of the reasons that no such testimony was placed before the Court is that King County succeeded in sandbagging discovery requests. Another reason is that King County employees gave misleading answers in depositions...’
Again, the very thing that the plantiffs needed to do, they somehow failed to accomplish. (Do you really want people like this running our government?) They failed because they had no case. If you had ANY evidence to support your allegations, then maybe our state’s (Republican) Attorney General might listen to you.
“So, PaddyMac, what do you think of Stefan's response to you? Are you in favor of KCE sandbagging discovery, or employees who give misleading answers in deps? We're not. How do you defend this?”
Compare six months’ worth of SoundPolitics’ blogs during the trial, to Judge Bridges’ ruling at the end. He completely rejected every claim of theirs that he considered. Why should I consider any of their new claims?
“The bar set by the court was impossible to overcome. The court agreed that there were a number of votes wrongfully counted. The bar set by the court was to prove how the wrongfully counted votes were cast. Given that the actual vote is a ‘secret’ ballot, it is impossible to determine how a given voter cast their vote.
“Testimony of illegal voters provided by Democrats was allowed by the court and the final tally was changed by the court. This farce demonstrated that illegal votes were counted. As such your claim of no fraud was ever proved, etc. is actually false as the court did find that there were illegal votes. However the court was unable to determine how the illegal voters actually voted. And the proportional analysis methodology offered by the Republican attorney's was denied.”
Um, if it was “impossible to determine how a given voter cast their [sic] vote”, then how did the intervenors prove that four illegal votes went to Rossi? The standard for invalidating any election was set by state law, and the court merely followed it. (Hence, Judge Bridges’ described the plaintiffs’ request as one for “judicial activism”.) We knew that illegal votes were counted-- the ruling notes that this happens in every election-- but no evidence showed that illegal votes made the difference. That’s the legal requirement, and the plaintiffs absolutely failed to reach it. They did not show that even ONE illegal vote went to the winner, even though their case utterly depended on it!
The “proportional analysis methodology offered by the” plantiffs is called by (honest) statisticians the ‘ecological fallacy’, just as Judge Bridges wrote. It appears to have been invoked as a substitute for the proof that the plaintiffs knew they did not have. It is never a valid line of reasoning, but was especially egregious here, where it claimed that (male) felons voted for a sitting, (female) Attorney General!
This last one’s tangential, but I just cannot resist:
“...If you accept less than you earned from your employer or deposited in your bank, then you are a victim of a liberal education and math is not one your skills. ...The doctor may error [sic] when a wrong limb is amputated one out of 100,000 operations. The doctor has a serious problem when the wrong limb is amputated 5 out of 100,000 operations.”
Any person who claims to have performed “100,000 [surgical] operations” in the space of one human lifetime would not get anywhere near my mortal coil! That’s ten operations a day, on every working day of the year, for 40 years! And you say that I’m bad at math?
P.S. to Misty: the only thing that I know about Ohio’s politics comes from the national news, which reported that Secretary Blackwell attempted to discard voter-registration forms because they were printed on the wrong type of paper. Sounds like Alabama in the 1950’s --not exactly the good civic image you’d like for your state, hmm?
Posted by: Paddy Mac on March 11, 2006 06:47 AMDoesn't matter...go ahead and feeeeeeeel free to tell us another whopper!
Posted by: alphabet soup on March 11, 2006 08:49 AM