At least not by themselves, assuming this KIRO report is correct.
Seattle's new $169 million downtown library has attracted national attention for its design and beauty.
It has also attracted perverts, mental patients, and other security problems.
And I have no reason to doubt the report. In fact, when I read about the plans for the library, I assumed that it would get this kind of patronage. And I am not entirely surprised to learn that those running the library do not refer many criminal acts to the police.
But, although this is what I expected, it still deserves comment. It is understandable, if not commendable, when bureaucrats run their bureaucracies for themselves, rather than for the public. But in this case, the librarians are making it harder for themselves, as well as unpleasant and even dangerous for normal users of the library. (And for the tourists who come to see this architectural "wonder".) Such, I suppose, is the power of political correctness.
(Kudos to Chris Halsne and KIRO for doing this report. And for providing supporting links to much of their documentary evidence.
This Seattle library scandal could use more coverage. If you know of any posts from local bloggers on the problems there, especially posts with photos. please let me know.)
Posted by Jim Miller at February 14, 2006 09:14 AM | Email ThisAs a microcosm, it's a lot like what Europe is facing with Islam.
Driving up 5th, when you go by the library and see that huge, cavernous, overhang of glass and steel that is simply wasted space for rising heat to be trapped, it's not at all clear how the building is even to be architecturally praised.
Then again, this is the city where a giant Frank Gheary colored turd pile sits proudly in a place of honor.
Posted by: Jeff B. on February 14, 2006 09:24 AMNAZIS!!!!!!!
All we got from our politicians “I’s a public place every one has every right to use the Libraries to the fullest extent.” By this, they mean that street harassment of prewomen by sobriety-deprived, cerebrally challenged, handi-capable, sexually dysfunctional, free- roaming clients of the correctional system is ok by them!
MSSSSSSSS. Julie “qutie-pie” Anderson (of Sound Transit Fame) even stated that she had no problem with her children being downtown at night at the Library. The only problem with that statement is that MSSSSSSSS. Anderson has no children!!!
Has anyone dared to step into one of those total flush million dollar restrooms on the streets of Seattle?
Posted by: GS on February 14, 2006 09:54 AMThe KIRO report didn't suggest that the new library is any worse than the old one (which was demolished). So -- while I detest the Koolhaas design -- I am not sure if people might be getting issues confused i.e. is there any eveidence that the new building is worse than the old one?
Btw, I'm not saying that the Library administration is doing a good job with public safety -- hey! they made a mistake with the new building plan so why should we trust them with administering the library well? But is the issue one of design? or simply of policing?
I don't know.
Posted by: Raw Data Complex on February 14, 2006 10:02 AMTo tell yous the truth, I don’t venture down to the library after dark. It’s a scary place to be, even for a armed urban sophisticate like myself.
Forgetaboutit.
Posted by: Joey bag of doughnuts on February 14, 2006 10:12 AMThe drunks inside most likely use that memorial as a urinal after dark, and it was unfortunate that such a rauncy location was chosen to memorialize these fallen heros.
But this is Seattle after all!
Posted by: Gs on February 14, 2006 10:24 AMHow drunk can a fella' get on 80K?
Posted by: JCM on February 14, 2006 10:30 AMDid you ever stop and wonder... that is what the PC's of KC wanted to happen at the War Memorial!!!
Posted by: tacoma phlash on February 14, 2006 10:38 AMGovernment at all levels in no different: government exists for the benefit of government.
Posted by: Libertarian on February 14, 2006 11:00 AMWe who complained of these role changes were besneered as exclusive elitists. And in view of the fact that political correctness is bedded on a deliberate blindness to such flaws as biblio-urination and other antisocial behavior (this is a LIBRARY, remember, not a saloon), it's greatly to KIRO's credit that they did not follow the lead of urban sophists and deny that such behavior occurred beyond 'a few instances'. No, they furnish 24 pages of incidents, illustrating a near-daily phenomenon.
That's news reporting. More, please. Seattle city council, what do you propose to do about it?
Posted by: Hank Bradley on February 14, 2006 11:18 AMThat gives me an idea. Hand out coupons for a free fifth of the booze of their choice to all the winos at the library, heak hand em' out everywhere.
The coupon directs them to Ron (tax to the max) Sims office to collect their booze.
I love fishing and I think it's good that there is public access to our lakes, but honestly, I wish the lake by where I lived was private because of that fishing lot.
Posted by: Palouse on February 14, 2006 01:02 PMThe Commons Problem is also the fundamental underlying fallacy or socialism / communism.
A gem of city asset (architectural criticisms aside) is functionally denied to a large portion of the population (those who actually paid for it) by the actions of a few, because of The Commons Problem.
The Commons Problem is so well known in a historical / sociological / anthropological / political context to not take the effect into planning bespeaks monumental ignorance.
Posted by: JCM on February 14, 2006 01:28 PMThe Seattle Library ought to name their Internet Area the Cafe Thunderbird....that's what it smells like. Or the Cafe Urine....prbably even more predominant.
These LEFTIST PINHEADED KLOWNS can turn an institution like the Public Library into a cesspool with their politically correct misdirection. These Library Public Servants are going to serve everyone's need's NO MATTER HOW MUCH IT COSTS and DESPITE THE IMPACTS ON NORMAL PEOPLE.
These Hobo's do register to vote....and the MoveOn.org folks "help" them with their votes.
Thunderbird or a 40-ouncer===Democrat Vote!
"It has also attracted perverts, mental patients, and other security problems."
These are probably the people who think that overpriced eyesore is attractive.
Even poor Americans generally own computers. Books can be expensive, but used book stores really cut the cost down. Just wondering if public libraries still serve a need that can't be met by other existing institutions.
Posted by: Peggy U on February 14, 2006 02:28 PMI think libraries are good for kids, they have good programs for storytelling, and get kids away from the television. I used to go to my local library to do research for school, to do homework or just to read in a quiet place when I was growing up. Sinced I lived several miles from my school, it was more practical to go to my local library where I could walk. The library was a place my parents had no qualms about letting me go on my own. How times have changed.
Posted by: Palouse on February 14, 2006 02:44 PMThe Tacoma link used to have Tacoma police ride every train until there was a BIG stink about it...got me in hot water with the Tacoma police (lots of overtime was to be made at $40.00 per hour.)
Now the Tacoma Link has security guards that are paid for by Sound Transit...this has driven up the operating cost and the taxpayers now support the Tacoma Link to the tune of $6.10 per boarding!!!
Posted by: tacoma phlash on February 14, 2006 03:44 PMNo other publication picked up on what this 20 year old blogger and avid reader noticed BY ACTUALLY GOING THERE! Perhaps those mental patients got that way trying to navigate in the building!
Posted by: Mac on February 14, 2006 04:31 PMMany of the things in the report are disgusting, but libraries have always served a special role in our society. Few institutions are used by as wide a diversity of people as our public libraries. Rich and poor, young and old, all races and religions coexist in the search for knowledge. Well, maybe not too many Republicans. That whole search for knowledge thing seems to be a negative for you folks. Bush holds up his lack of reading as something to be proud of.
Perhaps the library does need to take another look at what it is doing to ensure a safe experience for all users. I am sure they are constantly aware of this. The average suburban or city neighborhood branch is a pretty safe place with few incidents. The Central Library attracts folks from all walks of life. Some I don't like either, but most keep to themselves. Poor and homeless use the library to look for work or resources, or simply to escape for a few minutes from the cold and drudgery of daily life.
So--is it a higher value to put restrictive rules on behavior because of a few bad apples or is it more important to strive for access for all? This is a question librarians struggle with every day. Chris Halsne is a hit and run journalist just looking to sell a salacious story. And apparently you are his target audience. People who live in the inner city accept a certain higher level of urban impacts. People who move to the burbs or don't get out in public do so to escape those impacts. The tired old demonize Seattle refrain is dishonest. Most conservatives are really quite happy when Seattle provides services for the poor. You only bleat when urban impacts come to you.
Posted by: bfree2think on February 14, 2006 04:52 PM
Yo GS,
I wants yous to know that Benny the Bookie keeps the one that he works out of very clean but Tyrone and his fleet on the street aren’t so particular, they tend not to flush them condoms. So it depends on which one yous use.
Forgetaboutit.
So you have no problem with a drunk perv spanking his monkey while children are around? All in the name of open access.
No one here as advocating banning people, based on status. We are advocating maintaining a safe, child friendly atmosphere by maintaining a certain level of public decorum.
Is to much to ask for patrons to be sober, keep their tallywacker in its place, and not to expose children to filth for their own selfish desires?
Posted by: JCM on February 14, 2006 05:35 PMInteresting, if somewhat incoherent rant. You'd be "willing to bet that most of the people on this string don't use the public libraries regularly or at all" and you'd be wrong, but you wouldn't care because, as a liberal, you would find a way to wimp out on paying your debt.
Doesn't matter.
The funniest thing about your limp-dicked screed is that you acknowledge that (in your words): "Many of the things in the report are disgusting..." couple that with a concession that "Perhaps the library does need to take another look at what it is doing to ensure a safe experience for all users", and yet somehow still find it to be Bush's fault!
If a rational thought were to errantly pass through your thick skull, your pea-sized brain would surely explode!
Posted by: alphabet soup on February 14, 2006 06:29 PMVANCOUVER, Wash. - In response to complaints about pornography, libraries in the Vancouver area will filter the Internet for all computer users.
The Fort Vancouver Library board voted last night to change its policy. Previously, people over the age of 17 were allowed unfiltered access to the Internet.
No specifics on the filtering method were disclosed.
Content filters in libraries have been the subject of many lawsuits across the nation, dating back to when the internet first became available for public use at libraries.
The district operates more than a dozen libraries in Clark, Skamania and Klickitat counties.
http://www.katu.com/stories/83358.html
Why are these two things mutually exclusive? Why would it be unreasonable to make rules against being intoxicated, "gratifying yourself", looking at porn, or have such a foul stench to drive others away? One would think that by putting such rules into place, there would be an increase in the number of visitors, as a few "bad apples" are probably driving away far more people then the total numbers of apples who would be denied access.
Posted by: Mike H on February 14, 2006 08:54 PMAnd Now the Seattle Times says she has threatened to veto tax breaks if the democrats get carried away...
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Democrats get carried away with tax breaks......
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
The problem with Queen Christine is she is suffering from halitosis of the intellect.
That is of course presuming Empress Christine has an intellect.
Posted by: GS on February 14, 2006 09:50 PMIt illustrates the short distance between liberalism and socialism. If you set up a system that people can exploit, eventually they will. Conservatives want to construct a social contract that can't be gamed, so everyone gets a fair shake. We put in restrictions because of a few bad apples in order to separate the wheat from the chaff.
Posted by: Larry on February 14, 2006 09:52 PMTAX BREAKS MY BE VETOED, SAYS GREGOIRE
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002804111_taxbreaks14.html
If you can stand to read it without laughing out loud!
Posted by: Gs on February 14, 2006 10:02 PMThe bums kept eyballing my laptop like a starving bulldog watching a steak.
It cost over 20 bucks to park for three hours.
The free internet ain't worth that much.
At the Tacoma Library they have guards posted outside the mens' room. Only one guy at a time can use it. A guard has to check it out before the next guy can go in. There is always a line outside the door.
Posted by: Mumblix Grumph on February 14, 2006 10:53 PMIf you feel such compassion for the people cited in the news report, invite them into your home to surf the web at your expense and to relieve themselves on your belongings. And don't forget to let your kids enjoy the "show" as a teachable moment on how some people just can't control themselves, but that's ok because the vast right wing conspiracy made them that way.
Posted by: Burdabee on February 14, 2006 11:50 PMHE FOUGHT FOR OUR COUNTRY ... BUT HE'S NOT WORTHY.
His name was Gregory Boyington. Some called him "Pappy." He served as a combat pilot in World War II with the 1st Squadron, American Volunteer Group. This squadron was known as the Flying Tigers of China. Boyington later served as a combat pilot for the U.S. Marine Corps. He commanded Marine Fighting Squadron 214. Perhaps you've heard of this squadron. It was called the Black Sheep Squadron and was later featured in a TV series called "Baa Baa, Black Sheep." Boyington shot down 26 Japanese aircraft while serving in the Pacific. He was later shot down and spent 20 months in a Japanese POW camp. For those of you who aren't up to par on World War II history, Japanese POW camps were not happy places. Torture .. .and we mean real torture, not stripping them naked and taking snapshots. After the war Pappy Boyington was awarded the Navy Cross and the Medal of Honor. He died in 1988. You can visit his grave in Arlington National Cemetery.
Education? Oh yes! Almost forgot! Pappy Boyington was a graduate of the University of Washington. Just recently the idea of erecting a memorial to this Medal of Honor winner at the University of Washington made its way to the student senate. Here you have an alumnus who served in World War II. was captured and held, and was later awarded the Medal of Honor and the Navy Cross. Perhaps some sort of monument would be a good idea!
Well .. not to Jill Edwards. Thanks to the folks at WorldNetDaily we can show you a copy of the minutes of a meeting of the student senate at the University of Washington. Under old business there was a discussion of a resolution calling for a tribute to Pappy Boyington. Student senate member Jill Edwards immediately moved to table the resolution. She wanted other issues to be considered. Another member said that the issue was at the top of the agenda and should be dealt with. Jill's motion failed, but she wasn't through. There was then some discussion on why Andrew Everett, another student senate member, wanted the memorial. Everett responded that Colonel Boyington "had many of the qualities the University of Washington hoped to produce in its students." Well, I guess that might be true, if leadership and courage are considered to be good qualities. Anyway ... that's when Jill Edwards spoke up and showed her true colors. She questioned whether it was appropriate to honor a person who killed other people. Then the lovely Jill Edwards said that a member of the Marine Corps was not an example of the sort of person the University of Washington wanted to produce.
Shall I repeat that? Jill Edwards, a Junior in Mathematics at the University of Washington, says that a U.S. Marine is not the example of the sort of person that the University of Washington wants to produce. Let's let this sink in. To all of you men and women out there who have served with pride in the United States Marine Corps; to those of you who fought in World War II, Korea, Vietnam and the Middle East, Jill Edwards, student senate member at the University of Washington, thinks that you are unworthy to be graduates of the University of Washington. My father was a Marine. He's buried in the National Cemetery at Ft. Sam Houston in San Antonio, Texas beneath a grave market that reads "Neal A Boortz, Sr. Lt. Col. USMC. World War II, Korea, Vietnam." Therefore, I think that Jill Edwards is an ignorant fool. I would submit that Jill Edwards is am embarrassment to the University of Washington. With her mathematics degree and her leftist outlook on life my guess is that she'll end up being a teacher in a government school. Oh goody.
By the way .. there's at least one more moonbat on the U of W student senate. Her name is Ashley Miller. Ashley says that there are already enough monuments at UW commemorating "rich white men." Well .. I guess you have to get that wealth-envy stuff in there somewhere.
Don't you just love these young people? They're so much fun to watch during those magic years when they know everything and when they have all of the answers to every problem facing mankind. As I said the other day, we should take 100 volunteer members of university student senates from across the country --- and let's make sure Jill Edwards is one of them --- and give them a country to run for four years. Haiti would do just fine.
I like the picture, some hotdogs on a stick as a warning.
Posted by: JCM on February 15, 2006 09:19 AMAnd I should add that, although I disagree with the Library's policies, I do not see them as cowardly. In fact, they must know that they are putting themselves in some danger by tolerating behavior few of us would.
If you are wondering about my standards, here is my rule of thumb: If I would be embarrassed to have my post read by one of my young relatives, then I will usually rewrite the post. As British blogger Natalie Solent might say, I try to keep what I write sprog friendly.
Thanks to a number of commenters who made substantive comments. I was especially interested in Mac's link to the brief review of the library and those who gave background showing that the library was intended to be homeless shelter without much in the way of standards from the very beginning.
And thanks to bfree2think for making a (mostly) substantive argument. I would pose this one question for him (or her): Should the library tolerate illegal behavior, as KIRO charged that they were doing?
And if I may make a suggestion, bfree2think should read Gladwell's article in the New Yorker on a homeless man who was allowed by authorities in Reno Nevada to drink himself to death. (I have a discussion of it on my own site.) I think that one of the biggest objections to these library policies is that they are bad for the very people who are misbehaving.
One of our political figures, I forget which one, likes to talk about the bigotry of low expectations. I think that applies in this case.
Posted by: Jim Miller on February 15, 2006 09:40 AMAre you telling me the Seattle library got rid of the card catalog but didn't provide a computerized replacement? If that's not what you meant, then what's your gripe? The computerized version is far better both for the librarians (greater ease of updating) and the patrons: if you ever actually used a physical card catalog, you know how frustrating it was to wait for someone to get done using the drawer you needed.
Tacoma phlash,
Regarding the subsidy of our wonderful Train to Nowhere™: I work right next to one end of the link. How about if I start riding it more often, to make the per-trip subsidy go down? :-(
Posted by: Kirk Parker on February 15, 2006 10:26 AMdo you work at the T-Dome end or the Mecca Theater end?
Posted by: tacoma phlash on February 15, 2006 11:49 AMClean your glasses.
Posted by: Amused by liberals on February 17, 2006 01:38 PM