February 07, 2006
Levy Tuesday

This Tuesday communities throughout the region are voting on school construction and operation levies. (Not Seattle, we had ours two years ago). School levies are traditionally voted on in "special elections" when turnout is lowest, presumably because the school bureaucrats have figured out that casual voters tend to vote against school levies.

As usual, the campaigns are less a thoughtful discussion of school financial needs, than they are a narrowly-targeted get out the vote drive, backed by truth-stretching campaign brochures and lamestream media puff pieces with the obligatory unquestioned claims by school lobbyists to the effect that levies are needed because "the state Legislature hasn't fully funded education" (How much do we need to spend to "fully fund" education? They never tell us except to say that whatever we spend just isn't enough).

The levy campaigners will tell you that the levy is "for the children". But it's really more about rewarding the grown-ups who work in the school system. Be sure to vote YES for your local levy if you're convinced that your local school district serves your community as well as it should but for a few dollars more. Vote NO if you feel that your local school district doesn't serve you as well as it should. Not that voting NO does all that much good. They'll just keep running special elections until they get the answer they're looking for. But if more people vote NO on these things, somebody in the education bureaucracy might eventually start paying attention. Maybe. But what else can you do? It's not like there's any other way to hold these people accountable.

Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at February 07, 2006 12:25 AM | Email This
Comments
1. Why do you Republicans hate our children and our freedom?

Posted by: Rosi Lost on February 7, 2006 12:30 AM
2. I will vote YES today. I feel the Bellevue School District does an excellent job with our tax dollars -- 20% less spending per student than Seattle, and much better results. Also, the lowest school levy rate anywhere in King County.

I agree with the other points you raise. It is just a really cynical process. But it does serve some practical value. Sometimes school districts ask for too much, and their levy proposals fail. Then they usually scale them back a little bit and they pass.

Posted by: Richard Pope on February 7, 2006 12:41 AM
3. Yeah Stefan, keep voting no. That way you can wake up the Legislative education bureaucracy just enough to convince the legislature to change to a simple majority vote for levies and bond issues.

Question, what percentage of the state budget is spent on K-12 education last year vs, say 1984?

Question, not counting teacher pay (state mandated pass-through dollars), what percentage of the school district's budgets are dependent on local levies vs. state funding (again for last year and say 1984)?

Posted by: Doug on February 7, 2006 12:43 AM
4. Rosi Lost: Your freedom to spend my money with no accounting and no results is going to stop at the vote tally. I love the children, and am therefore appalled at the education they are receiving, the quality of which decreases the more we increase the money. I'm voting no on the levy, and hope most people will do the same. Enough is enough!

Posted by: katomar on February 7, 2006 12:44 AM
5. Stefan advises: Vote NO if you feel that your local school district doesn't serve you as well as it should.

But that's not what you're voting on. This is a budget vote, not an opinion poll. How about "Vote YES if you think these funds are a good investment for our society. Vote NO if you think they aren't." Doesn't that make more sense?

If more people vote NO on these things, somebody in the education bureaucracy might eventually start paying attention. Maybe. But what else can you do? It's not like there's any other way to hold these people accountable.

You mean like an elected school board? Or is that too difficult for you to deal with?

Must you view everything as an ideological battle, no matter how badly it hurts our children?

Posted by: Bruce on February 7, 2006 12:48 AM
6. So katomar I guess you are saying that Jefferson's ideal of a public education for all children is un-american because it is paid for by taxing your condo. That is sure patriotic!

Posted by: Rosi Lost on February 7, 2006 12:49 AM
7. I SUPPORT THE TACOMA SCHOOLS…...ITH A 50% DROP-OUT RATE, 65% FOR MINORITIES...AVERAGE S.A.T. SCORES AT 980 AND FALLING...REMEDIAL PROGRAMS FOR 75% OF THE KIDS THAT DO GRADUATE OUR HIGH SCHOOLS...BUT THAT IS ALRIGHT...IT’S OK...NO REASON FOR CONCERN...

THEY FEEL GOOD ABOUT THEMSELVES...THEY CAN PUT A CONDOM ON A BANANA IN TWO SECONDS FLAT...THEY HAVE LEARNED NEW JOB SKILLS, SPANISH AND KOREAN...THEY HAVE $100 MILLION DOLLAR SCHOOLS TO ATTEND (PLUS COST OVER-RIDES)...BESIDES MY KIDS WILL NEED SOMEONE TO MOW THEIR YARDS, CLEAN THEIR POOL AND WAX THEIR CARS SOMEDAY...UNLESS JOSE’ BEATS THEM TO IT!!!

Posted by: TACOMA PHLASH on February 7, 2006 01:15 AM
8. HEY, ROSI LOST…


THE PROBLEM IS THAT OUR SCHOOLS ARE STILL TEACHING 19TH CENTURY PROGRAMS... TO OUR 21ST CENTURY KIDS...AT 22ND CENTURY PRICES!!!

Posted by: TACOMA PHLASH on February 7, 2006 01:35 AM
9. When in doubt, vote no on all bonds, levies, and any other use of public money. Even if it can be done well in a particular government application, it can be done 10 times better in an open market and for 10 times less.

The solution to all of our school woes is to open up the system to true competition. Offer tax deductions to all those who want to send their children to private schools.

If our public school system is so good and we are getting a bargain, let's put it up against a private system and let the market decide. Let's let the market regulate what administrators get paid and how many we need. Let's let the market determine when to hire and fire teachers. And let's let the market decide if unions are needed.

Somehow, I think there would be big changes if teaching students was suddenly open to competition.

There's nothing that a WEA lifer fears more than real competition in education.

Posted by: Jeff B. on February 7, 2006 01:55 AM
10. Stefan, you just hung a "kick me" sign around your neck.

Posted by: South County on February 7, 2006 05:20 AM
11. I have two daughters in school. I can not even figure out how much of the 10K plus we already pay for each student every year makes it into the local school. I have a very hard time voting for anything when I can not figure how the current money is spent. They should be getting nearly 4 Million dollars for the elementary school they go to every year. I know that do not have a budget that big. I know that the parents have to do fund raising every year for special programs.
The question I am asking how much of the new levy will make it to the local schools. Or will it be diverted like most of the money is already.

Posted by: David Anfinrud on February 7, 2006 06:08 AM
12. For the larger Counties, the private school is an option. For a small community (where i live), the school is the only thing that keeps the town alive.

If you want to know where "your" money is being spent, make an appointment with the school and "ASK" them. It is public information.

When my children attended school, I was the "election chair" for 4 different levy cyles. My first stint was an education in itself.

I recommend that instead of voting NO, ask questions first. Get an Education about Education in this state and your community.

(although I have to agree with Stefan, the taxpayer's hands are tied. Get rid of the WEA.)

Posted by: Chris on February 7, 2006 06:58 AM
13. I will vote no. As a homeschooling father of 4, one with special needs, I have seen what our school district offers (Bethel). We had to go through the process of obtaining an IEP for our one daughter, and part of that process was seeing what the 'special education' department' offered. Bottom line was, what we were doing at home was 10 times better than what they offered. So: I do care about my children, I care enough to make sure they get the best education available. What the public schools offer in this state is little more than indoctrination and baby-sitting.

Posted by: dad4 on February 7, 2006 06:59 AM
14. You liberals hate consequences, but the consequence of low performing schools is not that I will pay more in taxes, it will be the admission that our current union dominated education delivery system doesn't work, and that "our children" deserve better. And since there is no service that can be provided more efficiently by government than by private enterprise, we need for profit k-12 education.

It's math, for what we spend on a class of 30 students, a two or three person team could deliver world class education and bring home a nice salary. But instead we have bureaucrats siphoning off 50% of every dollar for unnecessary and bloated administration.

If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got.

If you always do what you’ve always done and expect different results, you’re insane.

It’s time to employ a different educational paradigm, and a willingness to discuss the dismal state government controlled education is in today is the real test of whether someone cares about this society and its children. I hate to use the “c” word again, but the consequences of staying on our current path are more than anyone is willing to pay.

Posted by: Dan on February 7, 2006 07:16 AM
15. A district levy or bond election in February is illegal unless the auditor (Dean Logan) believes there is an emergency. What are all the emergencies?

Here's the statute that governs election dates:

RCW 29A.04.330
City, town, and district general and special elections -- Exceptions.
(1) All city, town, and district general elections shall be held throughout the state of Washington on the first Tuesday following the first Monday in November in the odd-numbered years.
This section shall not apply to:
(a) Elections for the recall of any elective public officer;
(b) Public utility districts, conservation districts, or district elections at which the ownership of property within those districts is a prerequisite to voting, all of which elections shall be held at the times prescribed in the laws specifically applicable thereto;
(c) Consolidation proposals as provided for in RCW 28A.315.235 and nonhigh capital fund aid proposals as provided for in chapter 28A.540 RCW.
(2) The county auditor, as ex officio supervisor of elections, upon request in the form of a resolution of the governing body of a city, town, or district, presented to the auditor at least forty-five days prior to the proposed election date, may, if the county auditor deems an emergency to exist, call a special election in such city, town, or district, and for the purpose of such special election he or she may combine, unite, or divide precincts. Except as provided in subsection (3) of this section, such a special election shall be held on one of the following dates as decided by the governing body:
(a) The first Tuesday after the first Monday in February;
(b) The second Tuesday in March;
(c) The fourth Tuesday in April;
(d) The third Tuesday in May;
(e) The day of the primary election as specified by *RCW 29A.04.310; or
(f) The first Tuesday after the first Monday in November.
(3) In a presidential election year, if a presidential preference primary is conducted in February, March, April, or May under chapter 29A.56 RCW, the date on which a special election may be called under subsection (2) of this section during the month of that primary is the date of the presidential primary.
(4) In addition to subsection (2)(a) through (f) of this section, a special election to validate an excess levy or bond issue may be called at any time to meet the needs resulting from fire, flood, earthquake, or other act of God, except that no special election may be held between the first day for candidates to file for public office and the last day to certify the returns of the general election other than as provided in subsection (2)(e) and (f) of this section. Such special election shall be conducted and notice thereof given in the manner provided by law.
5) This section shall supersede the provisions of any and all other statutes, whether general or special in nature, having different dates for such city, town, and district elections, the purpose of this section being to establish mandatory dates for holding elections.

Posted by: Bob Edelman on February 7, 2006 07:16 AM
16. Rosi Lost:
I don't recall mentioning patriotism or a condo. Must be those liberal defense mantras slipping out. I don't mind paying taxes for educating our children (and mine included). However, I do mind my tax dollars paying for non-performance. I have dealt with too many products of our public education in the work force, whom I have had to teach to read a ruler, convert it to the decimal system, spell, write a coherent sentence, etc. Even though they are functionally almost illiterate, they do have great self esteem, though! They don't even realize they don't know anything. All I would really like to see is performance on our investment. We are doing our young a great disservice by just warehousing them in the system rather than really teaching them, and producing measurable results.

Posted by: katomar on February 7, 2006 07:17 AM
17. I have two kids in the Marysville school system. The system does not do what we are paying them for. I voted NO. I've had to go all the way up to the Super just to get the Administration to apologize to my son. They punished him for something he did not do and threatened the students that stood up for him. Now I'm fighting with my daughters school because they have a violent student in the class who hurts other students. They hired an extra teachers aid last week just to focus on the one student. They say she has a right to an education. But the other students have a right to a safe learning enviroment. Our tax dollars are being wasted in that school district. This is a co-op so we put a lot of time in during class and after school. They want our free labor but do not want us to question the way they are doing it. I supported our teachers strike three years ago but that was before all of this happened. Now I have seen how corrupt the system is and how little they care for the students.

Posted by: James S. on February 7, 2006 07:18 AM
18. Sorry people but I too must say no.
Please don't give this ( It's for the children) That game has gone on way to long for most of us to buy it anymore. As a father of two boys and living in California. I like many parents played into this game of giving money year after year. But as the years went by we all noticed was the schools never got fixed, they never seem to have enought teachers and they still wanted more dollars. After 10 years of this, I like many others said enough!
We want results. What did we get"NOTHING"
and our kids suffered by poor grades.

Posted by: Army Medic/Vet on February 7, 2006 07:30 AM
19. I vote NO on school levies. Why you ask?

In a nutshell substandard performance on on counts.
Cost per student is way too high, as compared to private and foreign schools.
The cost to performance ratio is simple abysmal.

More money for the a education system that is simply underperforming?

If you could show more money increased performance I might be interested. However there is no evidence that more money results in improved performance. To the contrary, the most heavily funded school have the worst performance.

Show me the improvement, show me value, and I might consider showing you the money.

Posted by: JCM on February 7, 2006 07:41 AM
20. Most of the negative comments here are knee-jerk reactions with no substance. It is sure a lot easier to say no than do your homework.

Some districts are poorly run, and need some fresh air to clear out the dead weight. Others, though, like Bellevue, are doing a top rate job and are frugal with the funds they get. Don't lump everyone together, especially if you have no idea what you are talking about. I have found over the years that those who complain the loudest spend the least amount of time in the school.

BTW - Tacoma - you really shouldn't be criticizing the local students, when you haven't learned how to use the caps lock key.

Posted by: Janet S on February 7, 2006 07:45 AM
21. Yes votes from my house for our schools. Ours is for construction and renovation of several schools. The levy failed several years ago and they reworked it and it dropped by millions.

Posted by: sgmmac on February 7, 2006 07:50 AM
22. I believe the bigger problem is the people who are allowed to vote Yes or NO from a mail box not in their actual home (physical domicile) district. How can this be allowed to continue?
Also, the 60% majority should be retained for passage of levys and other significant tax hikes.

Most people will support " positive results" in a district. If the district is not performing and the Levys repeatedly fail then its time to replace the Board and Schools administration and keep moving down the food chain until the desired results are achieved. The kids will respond to leadership and expectation levels, so should the adults in charge.

Posted by: Roscoe on February 7, 2006 08:00 AM
23. 3 NO votes from our house.... We refuse to support top heavy administrations, union nonsense (so much more polite than another phrase that comes to mind), poorly educated and ill-prepared children, newly constructed boondoggles that are more show than functional.

Our district spends $29,435,387.00 MORE on various and assorted salaries than they do on kids educations.

Enough.

Posted by: Cheryl on February 7, 2006 08:06 AM
24. http://www.creators.com/opinion_show.cfm?columnsName=jst

Stossel has another immaculate column about this subject

Posted by: Jason Woodruff on February 7, 2006 08:06 AM
25. This is a great discussion.

I thought about voting no right up until I was convinced the Sedro-Woolley School District was doing just enough to justify holding my nose and voting a grudging yes.

What we really need are school boards that are more taxpayer-friendly and gung-ho to put the educrats (shorthand for education bureaucrats) in their place.

As far as the "simple" majority scheme, check out THIS from the school directors' association, THIS MS Word WA State PTA word document, THIS left-wing blog and THIS Elizabeth Hovde column.

Should be a good start. Gotta go to work!!

Posted by: A Watchdog on February 7, 2006 08:13 AM
26. Re-linking the Elizabeth Hovde column.

Posted by: A Watchdog on February 7, 2006 08:15 AM
27. I vote NO simply because I am so disgusted with the fact that they allow the schools to hold levy votes in Februrary.

All votes should take place during the general election in November. period.

Posted by: Eric on February 7, 2006 08:19 AM
28. Bruce said "Must you view everything as an ideological battle, no matter how badly it hurts our children? Too bad he thinks his ideology does not hurt any children.

Looking at how bad schools DO hurt our children I will be voting No. Blathering at current school boards is wasted breath. They get their marching orders from Chuck Hasse and we get the finger from behind the desk.
If you say what about the kids…ya? What about them Bruce. What about every kid since 1965 that has been sacrificed by out and out no accountability education system. A system that wants to make up the rules and guidelines and outcomes built on shifting sands and blowing winds of the moment.

Vote Yes!!! For more of the same. Bruce come on hate your kids even more! What would you like next Bruce? Kids that get to pick their grades, pick their orientation and then get a job where they get paid but can’t perform at all and are fully protected from the consequences of their choices AND OURS as parents.

I understand...we feel stupid that we let this happen and feel boxed in. Do we admit that we are "wrong" and at least start to turn the ship around. After all we can see the consequences of the last 40 years coming home. Do we try and change school boards? Do we ask our teachers with their spittle coverd lips to shut up and teach and grade? Do we ask them why they will NOT allow
vouchers so the money can follow the kid not the kid following the ideology.

Look at the Way Marysville was held HOSTAGE threatened extorted and now fully turned over to the teachers...come on folks you can vote it down one more time!

Parents stand up vote no and take the REAL responsbility of education for your kid(s) and no none of you will die if do this but surely we all will if stay on this path of public education.

I realize I have let down my school masters for not conforming to the ideology of 16 years of public education. Who is in trouble me or the teachers I had that did not get through to me???? HAA HAAAAA....oh boy they tried did they ever....Sorry Psycho Mrs T I still laugh at your class. Thank God the drugs were not around when I went to school otherwise I would be voting yes!

Posted by: Col. Hogan on February 7, 2006 08:24 AM
29. I generally vote yes on school levies and did vote yes on them today. While I am not happy about how much control the unions have, I am a product of public schools and turned out fine. In this case, I don't think a "starve the beast" strategy is going to have any effect on how much control the unions have. It's up to the voters to stop how much influence they have by electing candidates who are not in their pockets.

My school district is below average in technology funding compared to other districts, and I think that investment is worthwhile.

But I do believe in the 60% majority rule, simply because there are many non-property owners who vote in elections and they should not be easily allowed to tax property owners. The 60% rule offsets that effect.

Posted by: Palouse on February 7, 2006 08:33 AM
30. A hypothesis:

The Growth Management Act has driven up land value, so via the property tax the public schools can get more $$$$....

Give that a whirl, eh?

Posted by: A Watchdog on February 7, 2006 08:37 AM
31. If you are on the bandwagon for affordable homes, then vote NO on your school levy. Bad schools are just about as important as poor location when determining how much your house is worth.

So, go ahead - shoot yourself in the foot.

I'll be voting in favor of my levies, and my house will continue to be priced in the stratosphere,

Posted by: Janet S on February 7, 2006 08:44 AM
32. Posted by: Palouse on February 7, 2006 08:33 AM

To amplify your points...

Elizabeth Hovde, 24 Feb. 2005:

Setting aside the platitudes, the supermajority requirement was created for a good reason that its critics don't like to talk about: School levies tax only property owners. And a supermajority helps safeguard property owners from the spending whims of those whom the tax does not directly affect. Sixty percent support for taxes that only some people in the community have to pay makes sense still today, even given the increased number of propertyowners. While landlords can pass on their tax burdens to renters, the connection is often lost on renters. And the tax pain is diluted by communal living in any case.

There are other reasons to keep the supermajority around. One of the most compelling among them is that school employees are numerous and have an extra special interest in school levies. Statewide, there are 160,000 people on the K-12 payroll. About 99,000 of them are full-time school employees.

These workers make up a good bulk of voters in a lot of communities. Take Clark County, where the second- and third-largest employers are the Evergreen and Vancouver school districts, respectively. In a December survey by The Columbian, Battle Ground School District rounded out the top 10 employers in the county. Isolate school employees in their given communities and they can dominate a voting area.

These workers are inclined to vote in favor of school levies because it can benefit them personally, which makes sense.

Fred Bucke and Bob Hegamin, 10 March 2003

We contend the supermajority requirement is not unfair to the children of our state. First, we cite that use of the supermajority is not unique. We have found that the more important or the more costly the public issue is, the greater the majority consensus and the broader public support beyond just a simple majority are required. Examples include criminal charges that require a jury of 100% or unanimous vote; civil verdicts an 80% majority vote, some government decisions – 75%; overriding a veto a two-thirds majority vote. And, consider the fact that this proposed amendment will itself require at least a two-thirds majority vote from both the Senate and the House of Representatives for passage.

In light of the proposed amendment, not to be overlooked are the vast numbers of faculty, general school employees, parents of school children, and dedicated followers used with great effect in passing school levies. Put in perspective, the numbers in this built-in constituency is already very impressive when it is recognized that fewer than one-third of registered voters in a taxing district are generally needed to pass excess property levies, which are then imposed on all property owners in the district. Simply said, this proposed amendment will “lower the bar” still more, by permitting the passage of a levy or bond issue with a simple majority vote, regardless of the number of votes cast.

Despite the argument from proponents that the mandated “supermajority” requirement is unfair, school levies can do extremely well under the current system. As an example, Seattle voters in 2001 passed two School District excess property tax levies, each with a “YES” voter greater than 70%, presenting Seattle’s property owners with a bill of $736 million.

Here you go.

Posted by: A Watchdog on February 7, 2006 08:56 AM
33. Watchdog,

I love that Leftwing blog link! How "undemocratic" to require a supermajority. I don't remember these people making the same fuss over the Senate confirming Justices, when they where all for a minority holding everything up, requiring a supermajority to allow a vote on a nominee.

Posted by: fred on February 7, 2006 09:02 AM
34.
Also, the 60% majority should be retained for passage of levys and other significant tax hikes.

-Roscoe

All votes should take place during the general election in November. period.

-Eric

Actually, I might be willing to trade the 60% requirement for a strict enforcement of levies only appearing on the general election on a two-year cycle. That is, these issues must appear at the same time we're voting on our state legislators, and if one fails, the district doesn't get to try again until the next general election two years hence. This business of try, try again until they get the vote they want is terrible. (I understand that something similar to this has been proposed in the legislature, except I think that levies were allowed to be brought at any general election.)

Posted by: Kirk Parker on February 7, 2006 09:04 AM
35. Posted by: Kirk Parker on February 7, 2006 09:04 AM

Good idea!!!

Posted by: A Watchdog on February 7, 2006 09:09 AM
36. JANET S
Most of the negative comments here are knee-jerk reactions with no substance. It is sure a lot easier to say no than do your homework
______________________________________________

Boy have I heard this line before. Sorry Janet but working as a fire fighter. I can't tell you how many times I have helped out at my kids school.
Funny we can buy computers for class but not fix a leaking roof or paint the class room?
Show me results and I'll be happy to give the money. If I did my job the same way the schools are going, you would have my head for not performing at 100%.

Posted by: Army Medic/Vet on February 7, 2006 09:20 AM
37. How "undemocratic" to require a supermajority. I don't remember these people making the same fuss over the Senate confirming Justices, when they where all for a minority holding everything up, requiring a supermajority to allow a vote on a nominee.

What a fantastic point. Bravo.

Posted by: Paouse on February 7, 2006 09:21 AM
38. Kirk:

I would agree to trading the 60% requirement for making levies be mandatory in the general election in a heartbeat. Especially if the supermajority is in place to "protect" property owners.

Property tax impacts everyone (if you rent, your landlord pays it, so you do indirectly). I have never understood this arguement.

Posted by: Eric on February 7, 2006 09:56 AM
39. Rent is a function of supply and demand, not property tax assessments. A landlord is only able to pass on property tax increases to his/her tenants to the extent that renters will still demand to rent his unit. Many landlords rent their units at a net loss when they cannot command the necessary rent to cover their expenses.

Not to mention the large constituency of school related voters noted above. These make good arguments for keeping a super majority.

Posted by: Palouse on February 7, 2006 10:05 AM
40. I haven't really read any good arguments for voting No on school levies here. What I mean by that is most of the arguments for voting No should be directed at the state legislature and not the local school districts.

We voters have the ability and the right to affect how the local property tax dollars are used by the school districts. And it really doesn't take much, a little involvement on the levy committee, a few well timed public outcries at the local school board meetings and it's easy to get the property tax dollars earmarked for what is perceived as being needed.

Administration DOES NOT siphon off 50% of every dollar at the local school level. Our problems with the dollars has more to do with what is going on at the state level than anything else. Since 1984 average class sizes have been going up in direct correlation with average teacher pay. It's very simple, the democratically controlled legislature and the WEA have held hands since that time and have given the local school boards less money to work with by requiring a higher percentage of the availble dollars to be spent on teacher pay and benefits.

The local school boards then need to run larger levies because the state no longer lets them determine if the money should be spent on reducing class sizes where it matters the most such as reading, writing and arithmetic. Additionally, those funds you hear the most about beings spent (i.e. computers for 6 or 7 year olds) are mainly funds that the school districts have to go out and beg for in the form of grants and not funds from M&O taxes.

Some schools may or may not be run efficiently, but the truth is that the state taxes spent on education are the funds that have been spent uneffectively to the tune of putting the local school districts at a huge disadvantage.

Posted by: Doug on February 7, 2006 10:43 AM
41. JANET S…

I WRITE IN ALL CAPS BECAUSE IT IS…SO...NON-METRO SEXUAL...AND LIB’S GET IRRITATED BY IT…ALSO AS YOU SCROLL THROUGH THE COMMENTS IT IS EASY TO PICK OUT AND SKIP OVER IF YOU WISH!!!

SO YOU SEE I’M OFFERING YOU A PUBLIC SERVICE.

Posted by: TACOMA PHLASH on February 7, 2006 11:11 AM
42. A 60% vote means a NO vote counts a lot more than a YES vote.

Any libertarian or republican should be incensed that any one person's vote counts more than others.

This is a fundamental right...one person...one vote. The 60% rule is discriminatory on its face.

If it weren't we should make sure our president gets 60% of the vote before taking office. Ludicrous, eh?

Posted by: LovinUSA on February 7, 2006 11:16 AM
43. Stefan (and others who think our schools are total failures):

I agree that our schools are not serving our students well. I actually think that in their current state they are doing a disservice.

However, let's not paint broad strokes here. I would invite everyone to attend our next school board meeting in Federal Way (see fwps.org) to see what a school board should look like. We have a majority of the board intent on changing the way things are done. The school bond they are putting forward is an example of their intent to change the district.

The bond is going to set a low, constant tax rate for a consistant reconstruction plan. Not only will we replace our monolithic high schools with smaller schools, but it will do it in a way that won't give any surprises to the tax payers. And we'll be increasing our capacity ahead of schedule, rather than racing to meet the influx of new students every year.

This bond shows vision, a commitment to keep the community in charge of the district, and an intent to execute the powers assigned to the board wisely and with prudence.

(Also, note that FWPS is one of the top 10 districts in the states, as far as achievement goes. That's still pretty sad, but we are going to change things to make us do better.)

Posted by: Jonathan Gardner on February 7, 2006 11:17 AM
44. A 60% vote means a NO vote counts a lot more than a YES vote.

I'm not sure I understand what this means.

To me the 60% requirements means that it just requires 60% of the voters voting to agree on something for it to pass. Since not everyone is being taxed in these instances, how is then fair for non-property owners to have more influence over property owners who will be ones footing the bill?

Tacoma, sorry but I'm no lib and I skip over your posts too. I hate reading all caps.

Posted by: Palouse on February 7, 2006 11:20 AM
45. Posted by: LovinUSA on February 7, 2006 11:16 AM

a) How many people are employed by the school district in your community?

b) Do you think property taxes are a fair way to pay for schools?

c) Have you read the previous comments here?

Posted by: A Watchdog on February 7, 2006 11:40 AM
46. Palouse...

Ok just for you...no more all CAP comments...

Posted by: TACOMA PHLASH on February 7, 2006 12:08 PM
47. Wow...thanks Tacoma. I appreciate that.

Posted by: Palouse on February 7, 2006 12:14 PM
48. Lovin, who does the 60% of 40% of the electorate for the last election standard discriminate against? The threshold is clear, those who support the levy know what the rules are, it seems to me that the beneficiaries of a 51% standard are the status quo. I think we're all familiar with Alexis de Tocqueville's quote, which I will paraphrase as the American Democracy will stand until 51 percent of the voters decide to vote themselves a handout from the productive members of society. It seems only fair to me that when the government is asking for taxes, which are a lien against private property, that a minimum of 60% of the affected property owners agree to this increase in taxation.

Posted by: Dan on February 7, 2006 12:58 PM
49. Posted by: Dan on February 7, 2006 12:58 PM

Right and of course, I think we should bar school employees from voting on school levies. Same for anybody else who stands to directly profit from a tax increase.

Maybe I'm onto something, maybe not - I'd like to see how far this idea goes.

Posted by: A Watchdog on February 7, 2006 01:25 PM
50. I'm not sure about disallowing school employees to vote on education levies. Then what do you do about hospital/medical workers and hospital levies? Or fire levies? Police levies? Etc...

I think the 60% rule offsets those factors for schools.

Posted by: Palouse on February 7, 2006 01:31 PM
51. Posted by: Palouse on February 7, 2006 01:31 PM

Good point. I think the left-wing tilt of the judiciary would rule out my idea anyway.

Posted by: A Watchdog on February 7, 2006 01:33 PM
52. Seriously, the elections department has enough trouble getting only eligible people to vote now. Imagine if you added occupation to filter people out.

Posted by: Palouse on February 7, 2006 01:34 PM
53. I'm a member of the PTA in my district, and it is always interesting to hear the arguments for eliminating the 60% rule. Mostly it is based on emotion - it just feels like it isn't fair.

I always reply that I'm for 50%, but they have to run the levies during regular elections. Otherwise, it is too easy to just get out the base, and not have to make a good case for the money.

Jonathan - I enjoyed your post, but I have a question. Why are small high schools better than large ones? My experience says that they both have advantages and disadvantages. Students are different. Some thrive in a large school with lots of academic offerings, others need a smaller controlled environment. Why not offer both, and let the market decide?

Tacoma - I feel like I ruined your fun! Sorry!

Posted by: Janet S on February 7, 2006 01:49 PM
54. Posted by: Janet S on February 7, 2006 01:49 PM

Yeah, run them in November. Problem is State Senate Democrats refuse to compromise on November-only.

Posted by: A Watchdog on February 7, 2006 02:01 PM
55. A few points that I haven't seen mention here:

1. On a levy you are voting for the $$ Amount NOT the levy rate. The rate moves up/down depending upon the the tax base. So if assessed values go up, the levy rate goes down. Schools do not get more money than the $$ Amount approved in the levy.

2. If a local levy for the school does not pass, then matching funds from the state AND federal level are lost. Think of it like a 401k, if you don't contribute, then your employer has nothing to match. These funds from the state and federal level are approximately 100% match to the levy funds.

3. Your school district will tell you how much of the levy goes to the classroom. In my case, it is 80%.

4. I believe my school district (Central Kitsap) is doing well and improving with all of the added work that needs to be done (accountability reporting, testing) because of bills like "No Child Left Behind." More work requires more money.

I agree with others on this comments section that we shouldn't be punishing our children by voting no, but instead voting the right people onto the board that will take making and abiding by a fiscally sound budget a priority.

Ask yourself what is the difference between children educated today and those educated 50 years ago--its the beaurocracy. Too much handling of politics and not enough attention spent teaching in the classroom.

And yes, I voted yes today.

Posted by: Shannon C on February 7, 2006 02:13 PM
56. Posted by: Shannon C on February 7, 2006 02:13 PM

As to 2, I forgot. Good catch!

Posted by: A Watchdog on February 7, 2006 03:33 PM
57. Quite a few misconceptions seem to prevail about school levies.

RCW 84.52.053 expressly authorizes the school districts to call special elections for the approval of a levy. It is, then, perfectly legitimate to hold those elections whether or not there is an emergency. [Bob Edelman at February 7, 2006 07:16 AM, please take note.]

Special elections for school levies are held in the first three or four months of the year for a few simple reasons -- none of which have anything to do with the probable voter turnout or leanings of the voters who are thought to be likely to vote at that time. First, the election must be held in the year the levy is imposed -- and the levy is imposed in December to be collected in the following calendar year. Second, school fiscal years coincide with academic years, thereby making it necessary for school districts to approve their budgets for the coming school year during the summer. No one could approve a budget without knowing whether the levy funding will be coming in during the following calendar year, that is, during the second half of the school year. Third, if a school district needs to lay off employees it must notify them in mid-May -- but no school district would know if layoffs are going to be necessary until it knows whether the levy has been approved by the voters.

Levies supplement the regular state and federal funding for a simple reason: No system could possibly provide all the funding needed for each of our 296 school districts without doing one of two things -- necessitating the hiring of armies of bureaucrats to process district requests for funds on the basis of differences among the districts, or wasting money by providing some districts more than they need in order to avoid shortchanging any of them.

The "supermajority" requirement of 60 percent for approval is needed for the obvious reason that the voters wanted a limit on property taxes when they approved that part of our state constitution. If there were no supermajority requirement, there would be no limit on property taxes. It makes it harder to approve excess levies because it's meant to be harder to put the onus on local taxpayers rather than funding the schools at the state level.

If you don't think the money is being used well, speak to your school board members. They are the ones who approve the budget.

If you have no faith in your school board members, and you have a rational basis for believing the money isn't needed, then vote "no."

If you have no rational basis for your "no" vote, please vent your spleen here and elsewhere -- then tear your ballot into little pieces as a way to let off a little more steam.

Posted by: Micajah on February 7, 2006 05:16 PM
58. I voted no, another $50.00 per month on my taxes is good money after bad. My wife and I put off having kids until she could stay home and take care of them, and this single income home doesn't need the burden of additional taxes, on top of additional gas taxes, on top of the premium I pay because of the GMA, for property I can't even use thanks to the CAO. Stupid government.

Posted by: Dan on February 7, 2006 06:29 PM
59. Excellent analysis, Micajah.

I voted YES in Bellevue. Our levy propositions are passing fairly overwhelmingly -- 73% to 27%. Looks like the levies might fail in a couple of districts.

I think the election requirement is reasonable. It serves as a check on the power of the school board. People usually will pass levy requests if they are reasonable and they have confidence in the school board.

Posted by: Richard Pope on February 7, 2006 08:48 PM
60. it is 11:30 pm on feb. 7, 2006…

the voters of tacoma have rejected the dome issues once again with a yes vote of 52%...no 48%...

in addition, the voters rejected both of the school levees by 55% to 45% margins...

the real sad part only 26% of the turned out...

Posted by: tacoma phlash on February 7, 2006 11:39 PM
61. No
No
Reject

Posted by: Me on February 8, 2006 01:14 AM
62. Rosi Lost (sic): I cared enough about my children to get them out of the waste of time call public school. I cared about other parents' kids enough to vote yes for charter schools so other parents could have more choice in Ed. As for freedom, thank goodness for the freedom to choose the school I send my children to. How come you didn't care enough about children to give them more ed. choices with vouchers? Are you for abortion? If yes, then why do YOU hate children enough to support it?

Posted by: Me on February 8, 2006 01:19 AM
63. FYI: Skagit County Results

Posted by: A Watchdog on February 8, 2006 07:55 AM
64. reading these comments i am quite appalled about people worrying about paying more taxes, telling people to say no to levies, and worried about how this will benefit yourself. actually, did you know it DOESNT raise your taxes it actually levels and stays the same.

as a student of the tacoma school district, i care for my education. Do you want to see the drop out rate go higher? Do you want to see society and the youths of the future plumate down into chaos? What message are you sending? " ohh i'm sorry i am too worried to give a damn about you, i rather go golfing, so i am going to say no. Doesn't hurt me."

caring for your children, you'll say yes BECAUSE taking the programs out, taking classes that they aren't BORED with, something to stimulate their mind...you'll know that it makes ALL the difference in the world for their education.

by cutting down administration? it's bad enough for students to find a connection with teachers already in schools, by making the student to teacher ratio larger isn't going to help any students do better in school, most likely worse. I DONT THINK YOU WANT TO SEE YOUR OWN CITY FALL DOWN INTO POVERTY AND SEEING GANGS WITH YOUNG CHILDREN IN IT ROAMING AROUND MAKING TROUBLE. you're going to blame the parents and no supervision. I blame anyone that votes no! your are going to take the one thing away that gives them structure and guidelines. Education and schools AND programs gives every students endless possiblities and opportunities and tools for them to make our future better. IT GIVES THEM HOPE! i hope your happy you know you will be contributing to the on growing statistics of america's drop out rate.

you loose a little BUT YOU GAIN SOO MUCH MORE!

if you care for children your own, your grandchild, niece, or nephew, you'll vote yes.

Posted by: alyssad on March 4, 2006 12:48 AM
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