January 26, 2006
Tens of thousands of deceased and duplicate voters found
This might be some of what the Secretary of State's Office didn't want me to discover in the statewide database before they could put their own spin on it: "11,500 Dead Washingtonians Still Registered To Vote"
The sweep this month also found 36,000 voters who appear to be registered in two counties.
It sound like they're making progress on cleaning up the voter rolls. And that's good. Will they investigate further to determine how many of these dead people voted from the grave and how many of the multiply registered voters have voted more than once? Please, no wagering.
UPDATE: The source for the numbers of 11,500 deceased and 36,000 duplicates is the KOMO article that I linked above. The Secretary of State's website has a press release today reporting
10,000 potential duplicate registrations for active voters and 7,000 for inactive voters.
nearly 2,000 deceased voters.
No explanation yet for the discrepancy with the KOMO report.
UPDATE 2: Thanks the reader who suggested this related article in the Everett Herald.
Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at January 26, 2006
02:37 PM | Email This
My guess is 11. And all of them were close relatives of the deceased.
Can I play??
That'd be "What is MANY more than the margin of victory, Alex!!"
3. Doesn't this completely undermine the argument that voter registration issues are a King County or a democractic issue?
4. My guess is around 11,000. And before they died they signed that they voted for Dino. So CG won by 11,129
5. This report was carefully phased as to imply that absolutely none of the dead or double registered voters voted illegally. Thank God none of them did! We might not have been able to determine who our gov was.
If the figures of 11,500 deceased registered voters still on the books plus the 36,000 double-registered voters prove to be accurate, then we have at least 47,500 excess voter registrations.
With 3.5 million total registered voters in the state, that means the current database is approximately 98.6% accurate - a figure that any bank would be proud of.
I talked to one of the dead voters. She said she didn't even have to show I.D., much less having to show she was alive.
But, she voted for Rossi. Don't tell the Democrats or they will demand a recount.
Claire: Doesn't this completely undermine the argument that voter registration issues are a King County or a democractic issue?
1) we don't know yet where these dead and doubly registered voters are registered and which auditors have the sloppiest rolls.
2) I don't who is making the argument that sloppy voter rolls are exclusively a King County or Democrat problem. I've focused most of my attention on King County because that's where I live. But I'm also happy to publicize election problems in other counties without regards to partisanship, and for that matter in the (Republican) Secretary of State's office.
Again, let me remind you that none of the dead voters or double registered voters voted illegally. 47,500 total and not a one voted illegally.
What is the penalty for a dead voter voting illegally?
My guess is that KC was so arrogant in believing that Gregoire was going to trounce Rossi in the 2004 election that they ran a really sloppy vote count. Then, lo and behold, Rossi actually came out on top, statewide!
That caught KC with their pants down. But they were quick to recover by first NOT certifying the results as other counties had. Then, they scoured everywhere for those votes they may have idly just left hanging around rather than counting. The first round-up of ignored votes wasn't enough: they had to find more. They did, and how exactly they did that is still a "mystery" today.
The 2004 election was so tainted by the inept and lazy, unprofessional behvior of KC elections people that an entire new election for governor should have been called. There's a chance the wrong person is sitting down in the governor's mansion in Olympia. The really only true way to ascertain who won the election is to have a re-vote.
11. Libertarian: Too bad the re-vote won't happen unitl November of 2008. We've got another three years of her highness, Queen Chrissie to endure!
And given the record of government and its inability to do anything efficiently or completely, what is an acceptable factor to apply to these numbers to estimate the real size of the problem?
14. I am almost reminded of the whole "city burned while Nero Fiddled" scene with regards to this finding of problems with the voter rolls. Since the 2004 election all we were told by everyone inside the various state auditors offices and inside a number of the county auditors offices was that there was no problem and if there was a problem only a minor statistical minority were illegally regerstered or voting. Well now the truth is sort of out there and the problem is bigger then most seem to want to admit. I mean come on 11.5k of dead citzens are still registered to vote? I really don't care which way they would of voted, but I just wonder how long some of these people were still registered to vote from when they died. There is no excuse to have this many people still on the voters rolls. This is sloppiness to the nth degree and in some counties they should of cleaned house and cleaned up thier paperwork the first 3 times issues like this popped up since the 2000 election.
The only thing that I can say is if you check all over the nation there are similar problems with voter registration in nearly every state of the union. However, most of the media doesn't care unless it prevents a law or politician that they care about from being elected.
WHEN MY GRAND MOTHER PASSED ON...
SHE WAS CREMATED AND WE GOT HER A NEW DOMICILE AT THE LOCAL U.P.S. STORE...IT IS ONLY $25.00 A YEAR, A.A.R.P.CAN STILL ASK FOR DONATIONS, WE CAN SEE HER 24/7/365 AND SHE CAN STILL VOTE.
THE COST OF A GRAVE SITE AND COFFIN WERE OVER $10,000... SO @ $25.00 PER YEAR IT WOULD TAKE 400 YEARS TO BRAKE EVEN...SUCH A GOOD DEAL!!!
Phlash - That is a great idea! Now you really can pass along a legacy from generation to generation ;'}
A shrewd person could start a very profitable cottage industry here. And obviously the dems don't care...
17. How many of them voted last time around?
Phlash: The best part about your idea is that it would be really easy to prove the voter lived at the stated address. :)
The articles cited mentioned voters should step up to help out. Is the state going to hire mediums to help us contact the dear departed to verify that they are really truly truly dead? Should the deceased knock once if they are still voting and twice if they have made the permanent move?
Sidebar: Face it there is a pervasive insanity in the King County hierarchy - the pathogen is indigenous to mostly urban areas - it causes looniness, corruption, impaired judgment and leftist ideology and has spread to other nearby larger counties. The only known antigen is mugging at gunpoint or a violent crime against their immediate family that will rattle common sense back into their being. Otherwise the inmates continue to run the asylum.
The findings are a step in the right direction. However, who knows if these wrongs will be righted ? unless Stefan and other watchdogs keep birddogging the SoS office to make the changes. How or should I say, will this affect King County's voter rolls ? Good luck with that part, as the inmates are in charge. Also keep in mind how big of fuss had to be made for this to happen - that's alright, keeping the heat on will eventually get results.
36,000 duplicate registrations???
These numbers are really unbeliveable considering all of the angst about the dead, the double voters and the felons.
I do hope that we will be getting a county breakdown of these problem registrations.
It will be interesting to find out if any of the 5000 or so voters registered at business addresses in Seattle are on the list.
This is scary --- glad I can get a mail in vote --- all these dead people ghousting, gouling - shadowing - all at at the polls.
God what nighmare. DOOOOOO something.
Crises for sure.
22. This would be the tip of the iceberg, as this doesn't even touch the problem of voters registered at non-existent addresses. And...how about those non-existent voters who never die because they never lived? You know, the ones registered at your house that you've never met.
Yeah, but this dead-guys list was'nt matched with middle names or socials or stuff that was blatently obvious with both lists.
most of the 36k arent even the same people. Now granted there are alot of dead people on the rolls. Here is the chance to take a look at the ones that are correct and see how many did vote!
Maybe if people would actually report their relatives death to election offices they wouldnt just float around on voter rolls.
Dont just jump on some bandwagon - do your reserach like some others here do before saying this is the new evidence of whatever.\
24. Did I miss it, or was there no mention of this in either local fishwrap? Intentional, or is the local written press really this far removed from...the news?
25. You have to remember If they investigate who voted illegally that would be an admission of sloppy records. KC has a clean bill of health and they removed all the illegal double voters and dead voters months ago. Right. That is what is claimed by the Select protection committe that investigated the entire problem. SO there is no need to see who voted or didnt. KC has cleaned up their act. Right???? It would be interesting to see after cleaning up the voters rolls how many were missed and caught by this database. SO if KC had removed hundreds of dead people how many did they miss and where were they registered to vote. It would be interesting to see if they investigated selected precincts and ignored others.
26. "Maybe if people would actually report their relatives death to election offices they wouldnt just float around on voter rolls."
Thomas? Have you heard of Martin Ringhoefer's history of trying to get his deceased parents off of the King County voter rolls? For years and years?
"Yeah, but this dead-guys list was'nt matched with middle names or socials or stuff that was blatently obvious with both lists."
"most of the 36k arent even the same people. Now granted there are alot of dead people on the rolls. Here is the chance to take a look at the ones that are correct and see how many did vote!"
You are in a HUGE state of denial....
Of course these 36,000 are the same people! And yes - the dead people listed are dead....and still registered to vote. They didn't just match up names....they use social security numbers, addresses, etc...
I'm thinking these numbers are far short of actual. They may represent King County alone..
You know, there never seemed to be a problem with county staff purging dead people off the voter rolls until Ron Sims took over in King County! In fact - most of todays election problems, errors, fraud and corruption began when Ron Sims took office! It increased dramatically when Dean Logan was hired by Sims.....
Since they keep saying that the King County elections database is basically an honor system, then I believe the real issue here is the Elections department felt it was the responsibility of the dead people to call in after they died to cancel their registration.
Now it makes perfect sense!
28. ..and to think that the SOS office back in summer of '04 assured me when asked that the state voter rolls were pretty clean.
In my previous postings kast year I stated that the Democrats had a 10,000 vote lead off the starting blocks. Guess I was wrong and underestimated their head start.
How many illegal immigrants vote? We will never know.
Long live the Queen
Most of the duplicate registrations occur for two reasons:
(1) Voters move around the state and do not notify their old county that they have moved. They simply register like a new voter in their new county. The new Voter Registration Database solves this problem. Voter Registrations are now transferable like your car title.
(2)Women voters who get married do not notify their county election official of their name change, but fill out a new form. Most remember to get their driver's license changed, but do not think about their voting registration. The new system does not yet deal with this problem, but we hope to be able to track maiden name changes in the future.
A note about the numbers. The initial dupe and death check turns up raw numbers. There are a lot of Robert Smith's or Mary Smith's born on the same day -- even living in the same city. An elections official must go though the dupes and compare the signatures. Many raw dupes turn out to NOT be dupes. Notations are added to the records so they do not turn up in future checks once we are certain they are two different people.
The dupes and deaths being turned up are from the initial load of the old databases that resided in the 39 counties. Now, with the VRDB centralized at the state-level, with systematic integrity checks, we expect smaller numbers in subsequent months.
The felon check will occur in March. The dupe and death checks will occur monthly. We will produce a statistical report of what we find each month in the subsequent month. A new version CD-ROM od the VRDB will be availabe after each check.
The VRDB is dynamic and in real-time so that means the NUMBERS ARE CONSTANTLY CHANGING as election officials go through reports and clear the records that turn up. By issuing statistical report AFTER all of the checking is done, everyone should have access to reliable numbers.
Yes, we will try to see if any dupes or the dead voted. We expect very small numbers, if any. The Governor's election contest ferretted out much of these and those persons' records have been cleaned-up since then.
Hope this helps...
Assistant Secretary of State
I responded last week to your email and am hopeful you can provide an update.
The numbers in the KOMO story and the SOS press release are different b/c they were pulled from the database on different dates.
The database flags computerized matches but human beings must then examine each match to determine if it is in fact a duplicate registration, a case involving a convicted felon or someone who is deceased. As election administrators examine these computerized matches each day, the numbers will continue to change. Once they finish, we will issue a complete list of registered voters and hope to do so next month. Even that list will not be perfect.
Most duplicate registrations exist b/c people move and forget to cancel their old registrations. They marry and forget to notify the County Auditor. Felony convictions will continue and the database will likely always hold names of the deceased.
Thank you for the opportunity to respond. This is an important issue.