December 09, 2005
Dean Logan is dragging his heels on my public records request for the key data files from the 2005 fall elections. Everything I asked for in this request should be readily available (e.g. the standard voter registration file, which Logan, by law, "shall promptly furnish" to any requestor). Other items in my list are simply the original Excel versions of files that have been distributed in hardcopy to the canvassing board and news media. Most of this stuff has also been requested by the county GOP. Nevertheless, Logan claims his staff can't satisfy this request for at least a month while they work on an earlier request that shouldn't require as much time as he claims it should take anyway.
Either Ron Sims and Dean Logan have something to hide, or they haven't figured out yet that if they have nothing to hide, then full transparency and compliance with state disclosure laws is the most advantageous P.R. policy.
Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at December 09, 2005
12:25 PM | Email This
1. Be patient Stefan. It takes time to doctor up the public records in an undetectable way before they send them to you. Plus, they need to get their spin control press releases prepared before the stuff hits the fan. :-)
Lose your goat? I think Logan got it.
They are just trying your patience. At least you get the stuff. In the past when I was chasing my bit of government corruption, I couldn't get anything and I didn't have the money to sue.
Sims has something to hide? Is he hiding 15 % of the vote? Give me a break.
Word has it that 28,000 challenges are going to be filed by the GOP as a strategy for the 06 senate race. My suggestion is that the legislature updates the law so that challenges must be filed within one week of the last day for mail in registration before an election, give the state 83 days to look at the challenges. If you are interested in correcting registration, start an information campaign to help people fix their registration, not to disqualify and intimidate voters.
When I make an allegation I have evidence to back it up, for example the post I had about Sotelo perjuring herself (http://www.soundpolitics.com/archives/005373.html#005373). I am shocked to hear anyone use the fraud word, that is a serious allegation that needs real evidence before it is thrown around.
If the GOP strategy is to disqualify homeless voters because they don't have a residential address, they need to review state law and stop attempting to intimidate voters.
Go cougs, now that I've established our only point of agreement, is your point that we should statutorily limit a charge of illegal behavior in order to protect those who may be guilty of a crime?
That sounds like a sweet deal for criminals. How about limiting a state trooper's authority to pull me over for speeding to the first 1/4 mile after he turns on his lights, if I make it past the first 1/4, he can't pull me over because THAT would be intimidating.
Also you state that when you make an allegation you have evidence to back it up. However you start your post with the allagation "word has it". Could you provide your evidence for that allegation?
5. The State and County GOP need to sue Ron Simms and Dean Logan in federal court for fraud. Norm Maleng is not serious about enforcing the law.
Patrick, Its not voters that need to be disqualified, it is illegal voters, or do you not have an issue with illegal voters voting?
The reason to wait to be closer to the election is to catch as many as possible, including all the last minute ones trying to get under the wire undetected. Make sense?
I can assure you that I would not be in the slightest bit intimidated if I was asked to prove that I am a citizen, or that I am legitimately registered. Why would anyone feel so, unless of course they are not? You are just making excuses to keep the election system unaccountable.
What are you talking about, Patrick? I think you are saying the law is the law and must be followed. I think you are saying that all those challenges are for homeless people and they should be treated different.
I can't figure your position out. Nor the rest of the Democratic bloggers.
And how can you be sure they are not duplicate voters? That is why we need these asinine (your side) rules.
When I moved out of the City, I considered reregistering at my business in the City because I was more interested in my City than in my new location politics. Some of these people Stefan has shown were not as honest as me when I did reregister at my new house.
I really don't see how anyone can really complain about cleaning up the registration rolls. It really, really has me confused as to your position, Patrick.
If you are a constant pain in the rear with your time-consuming and inane public records requests, why would you be surprised that people drag their feet on them? Especially since your goal is to obfuscate , jam, and generally destroy the way the elections office must operate.
Your no help to anyone. You're just a jerk. I wonder how much money you have cost the taxpayers. I think you should pay for all the time you are wasting on the taxpayers dime. Fortunately , the crooks in your party are starting to fall.
Perhaps you should ask CLownstein to get the information for you - I hear he has inside contacts at the King of Corrupt Elections (KCE) offices.
My issue is with the concept of waiting to challenge voters untill the election is nigh and the challenges have no time to be reviewed to intimidate a voting block that they think might support different politics than their own. I think it is reasonable to have challenges of voters for an election be due in a timely manner before the election. For all your criticisms of Logan you sure like to give him a lot of hard work and act as though you are confident he can do it before an election.
As to the claim of 28,000 voter challenges, I am speaking out against the tactic, I don't have hard evidence to support it that I can give out, and my strategy is to figure out the people that are likely to be challenged and working with them to correct their registration. Doesn't anyone else have that as a goal? Helping those voters so they aren't disenfranchised?
The difference is that I don't see these people as criminals. To me a criminal needs intent. These are people that may or may not have mistakenly filed their registration.
I do have an issue with people doing things illegally. I just don't think that the voters being challenged had intent to cheat, by all means prosecute people trying to vote more than once, prosecute those who commit perjury in challenging valid voters as well, but to be found guilty, they need to have intent shown to the courts.
"I don't see these people as criminals. To me a criminal needs intent. " - Patrick
Gee, so if I 'accidentally' run over Patrick with my car, it won't be a crime, since there was no intent?
12. Good one Fog! Your version of government is to only follow the law when providing propaganda, but not when the party in power doesn't like the person or the data legally being requested. I was always under the obviously misguided impression that the government was to serve all the people, but I guess that was under the old USA, not the King County Socialist Republic.
13. As to requesting election records, the county offices took one day for my voter file requests, I only asked for a couple of pieces of information because I only needed them to take a look at turnout for this last election versus previous elections. I worked with a group doing canvassing and we wanted to be able to report on any turnout increases versus surrounding areas. We had to pay the fee, but they (the election department) had no idea what party or group I was working with, I got my request in early though and was thourough in the description of what I needed, so it only took one day to run the requests and get the voter file pieces I needed. It wasn't an excel spreadsheet, but a comma seperated delimited file. If you made your requests a little easier to grant, it probably wouldn't take a month to get them taken care of.
You go, Stefan! You know you're hitting the mark when the trolls start foaming at the mouth.
Once again, Apatchy Slug slides into dishing rabid abuse when he has nothing constructive to add to the debate. Must be a joy to work with him (assuming anyone would employ such a Neanderthal.)
Dang. I just insulted Neanderthals. Sorry.
Patrick, How could intent not be there. The registration form clearly has the instructions, clearly states that the residence address must be where you live. You sign that the information is true. What more is needed?
Before going there, english is required to become a citizen, so language difficulty is no excuse.
16. Correction, nice catch PBJ - election fraud needs intent. Some crimes don't need intent, but fraud does.
At what point, just to show that we want to see the files, do we all file requests for the data? Maybe KCE is just not swayed by one request and needs so many requests that the newspapers cannot ignore the delay?
18. Apache Fog,
I gather from your post that you believe Dean Logan responds to reasonable requests. I have been trying to get the public records since May of when ballots were mailed for the 2004 election. He still has not provided the records. (However, I have received enough of the puzzle to know that a group of military ballots and Chinese language ballots could not have been mailed on time even though all of their registration information was in the system.)
Patrick says: Doesn't anyone else have that as a goal? Helping those voters so they aren't disenfranchised?
If a voter is mis-registered but otherwise a legal resident of their precinct/citizen/etc then a challenge would not disenfranchise them.
A challenged registration would only disenfrachise someone who could not prove their own case or fix their registration.
I don't see what your problem is with challenges, as was said already, the only people who should be upset about their registration being challenged are those who are not following the law.
Personally I would be happy to prove my residence and citizenship. Nothing there to get uppity about unless of course YOU LIED.
(The other) Patrick: You ask why improperly registered voters should be challenged? Maybe you weren't paying attention when Judge Bridges ruled that the only recourse for cleaning up the voter rolls was for citizens (not KCE) to do it through the statutory challenge process.
On the other hand, if KCE would simply not accept registrations that are on their face invalid (i.e., when a commercial/business address is provided as the voter's "residence"), it would not be necessary for citizens to file challenges to get the voter rolls cleaned up.
I marvel at those who argue that enforcing the registration rules (which were enacted to ensure that voters only vote once per election, and that they vote where they actually live) is somehow unfair or discriminatory. They apply to everyone, equally. Even the homeless are covered by the statute, which requires that they register the nearest specified government office as their residence (not a convenience store, empty office, or private mail service). Why shouldn't everyone be expected to follow the law?
(I live in the Tri-Cities, and just shake my head in wonder as I watch the Westside circus....)
21. Patrick: Your question about why everyone shouldn't be expected to follow the law is one that you should ask Lori Sotelo as it seems she is not expected to do it. Somewhere along the line the people who run this blog are going to have to deal with their own lawbreaking and hypocrisy.
That is the voter registration form. Where on the form does it tell the homeless how to complete their address for registration? How many people here did voter registration before the election? were any of you trained on how to help a person without a residence register? I didn't know it had to be the "nearest" (nearest to what?) government office that they marked as their address, did all of you?
It does disenfranchise voters if you wait to challenge voters untill the last minute and they can't come back to defend their registration. Or if they are homeless and aren't notified they need to come to court and defend themselves.
It would be much nobler an effort to attempt to contact those voters and correct their registration rather than to challenge them and never contact them.
23. Yes, Patrick. But that's Dean Logan's job, and he's not interested in being noble.
Voter disenfranchisement is a myth. It doesn't exist in Washington State in 2005 - unless you're talking about the disenfranchisement of the military vote due to the fact that the military ballots were not all accounted for and mailed out on time.
Furthermore, any person can vote regardless of whether they're registered. They can simply fill out a provisional ballot. And will that ballot be counted? Maybe, maybe not. Nobody knows whether their vote was counted because of the secret ballot. So technically it is impossible to know for certain whether anyone, or no one at all, was 'disenfranchised'.
In November 2004 there were many ballots that weren't tallied because of incomplete or incorrect registrations. If I remember correctly, a judge allowed the parties to contact these people during the recount so they could correct their registrations and have their votes counted. That's certainly not 'disenfranchisement'.
Maybe your ballot wasn't counted because your registration was challenged. Or maybe it was. Maybe it wasn't counted because the signatures didn't match (even though it was a valid signature), because some flunky working in the elections office determined the two signatures (on the ballot and registration form) didn't match. Or maybe your ballot wasn't counted because it was determined to be an overvote by the Canvassing Board because there was a stray mark on the ballot. Or maybe your vote was tallied for the wrong candidate because the Canvassing Board was incorrect at divining your intent.
My point is - disenfranchisement is a myth, a canard, a red herring, a reason to continue to allow thousands of bogus registrations. But nobody can ever prove that they were truly disenfranchised. In fact, many of us who DID vote legally COULD have been disenfranchised by KCEC or the Canvassing Board and we'd NEVER know it.
You can complain all you want about 'disenfranchisement'. But until KCEC becomes more transparent, cleans up the voter rolls and removes illegal registration, allows the public to observe the signature verification, stops divining voter intent, and generally cleans up their act and starts truly serving the public - your complaints will only fall on deaf ears. This is the way Judge Bridges, Ron Sims, Dean Logan, and Christine Gregoire want the game to be played. Their rules, not ours.
My thoughts in reading the previous comments are that I like the suggestion about a federal suit against Sims, Logan, et. al.
My read is that if sufficient information on voter registration documentation counter to state law exists (yes a Class C felony, is a felony) and there are a sufficient number of challenges that are rejected for reasons that don't make sense; then an argument can me made that Sims, Logan, et. al. are engaged in fraud associated with keeping illegally registered voters on the voting roles.
I would even wager that the entire democratic party of the United States could be identified as trying to keep illegally registered voters on the roles.
Hopefully someone will then charge the Democratic Party, Sims, Logan, et. al. with RICO violations. After all, the Democratic Party sure seems like organized crime to me! (/sarcasm)
26. Cough it up, Dean!
I think the Democrats are having a meeting about this........snicker...Maybe Logan and Sims can't pull themselves away from the Montlake Ale House...
Check out this website...Drinking Liberally.org -
"Promoting democracy one pint at a time."
They actually have charters all over the country! Unfortunately, they all must be too drink or hung over to keep up their forums...
I love how they conspire to bring febreeze to their pub's so they can smoke without detection! What hypocrites!
Well, this explains headless and apache and the other inebriated trolls who visit us.....
I got that website off of NWprogressive.org - an equally insane site for liberals, socialists, progressives and communists!
These people are ill.....and Hell-bent on ruining our country.
headlice lucy, Apache Fog and Harry Poon are all the very same confused CLOWN!
30. Cynical, You may be on to something here!! The trolls seam to foamin at the mouth lately. I though only rabid dogs did that gee was I wrong!!
KCE though has no excuse their hijinx!!
We may be going about this wrong....
Practically every week, Stefan uncovers new evidence of city, county and state corruption. He is very thorough in his findings and has even gone into the trenches with the perpetrators! (work in the elections as a poll judge..etc..)
Stefan has challenged Dean Logan and Ron Sims to produce via Public Disclosure, articles, documents, etc..that will likely expose them and the fraud they commit...
The problem with the way we are handling this - is that we are pulling up too many rocks at one time and watching too many roaches and rodents scurry around without stomping on any of them! We have uncovered so many fires - and haven't put any out. There are so many! Everyone get's the picture here...This state is extremely corrupt under Democrat rule! Now we have to consolidate our resources and methodically battle each rock - each fire! Beginning with one.
We need one victory against this crap. Choose one. Once one is eliminated - we go on to the next and the next...etc...
Continuing to simply expose the corruption and fraud without any attempt to battle it - is actually working in the perpetrators favor. It is working as an "in your face" - "yep! we did it and you can't do anything about it" assault! And we become more and more frustrated and hopeless that there will be an end to this....Then, we allow the trolls to come in and further beat us down with their insane arguments....Not to mention Matt's constant flip-flop of loyalties for and against individual freedoms and conservative values.... It's enough to make anyone lose heart and shake their heads in utter confusion and anger!
We need to choose one battle and fire at it with all we've got! Whether it be Stefan's fight with King County Public disclosure, the illegal mailbox voters, the lack of coordination in King County and state election laws, the election transaction log sheets, Ron Sims campaign fund extortion, etc...You get the idea.
Pick one, then concentrate all of our resources on it until it is completely resovled then move on to the next....Otherwise we will just continue to spin our wheels until we run out of energy and desire to fight.
C'mon headlice foghat,
Please try to use proper grammar when YOU'RE slinging s*** around here.
I think that most of the money that King County spends is wasted.
Complying with Stefan's document requests is the best use of my tax money I can think of.
34. The first thing that comes to my mind when you're talking about getting something out of the county fast is "hey, what do you expect from county-workers? Just the phrase county-worker is and oxymoron" But then I'd be bad mouthing all county workers and I know it's the same thing as lawyers. It's that 95% of them that give the 5% the bad reputation. A month to get anything out of county is about par for the course I'd say.
35. PC said "The first thing that comes to my mind when you're talking about getting something out of the county fast is "hey, what do you expect from county-workers? Just the phrase county-worker is and oxymoron"" wow, it is and oxymoron? I feel like I should make the cliche joke and call you an (or is it and) oxymoron, but I won't. As I said before, when the request is phrased correctly and you go in and file the request form, they will handle your request very promptly, my copy of the voter file took less than 24 hours. It wasn't because I am a lib either, they had no way to know what party I was working with. If you weren't demanding about format, or if you were to request things that are part of the standard absentee file or voter file you would have your request met promptly. I made my specific request that matched up with options on the form they had for file-requests, if I were requesting something different than on their request form, I would understand if it took them longer, but writing posts calling them incompetent or having a lot of people discuss flooding them with requests wouldn't be something that I would do to hurry the process along. I would ask how much time you actually spent talking to the people in the elections office, or if you ever went in and filled out the request form or faxed it in or if the only thing you sent is the request that is posted in your message, because if you were in the office every day for a month I would have some sympathy for you and maybe I could look up who I talked with that helped speed things along.
I always give my special friends who ask for the information I have already "corrected" preforential treatment. Thanks for the supportive words Patrick, see you at the drink up with Goldy!
37. KCRE doesn't comply with disclosure requests because they want to be difficult with Stefan and with the State GOP. They know when they release information to them that it will be scrutinized. Although, after the Nov 04 fiasco of theirs, they didn't comply with disclosure requests from the Democrats either. Both political parties had to complain to Judge Bridges about the discovery failure. Being from Washington State University probably helped Patrick a lot too.
38. the thing that helped was that I asked for standard information. They only knew my first name, my phone numberm, and the information from the voter file that I was requesting when they ran the information. When I came in to pick it up they got the rest of my info and about twenty bucks. I think that the formula is 15 dollars to run a search in the voter file + 1 dollar per disk (I wanted electronic, they use some other charge per page if you just get a hard copy) and 10 cents per minute that the search was run. The computers there weren't licensed for Office, so they had to use a text file with comma delimited spacing. It meant a little more work for me to create Access databases and excel spreadsheets, but it would cost a lot to license every computer in that office. I think what helped me was that I went into the office and said the kind of information I needed and filled out the form for it, they didn't know I was from WSU, or that I was a democrat.