The King County Canvassing Board is scheduled to issue rulings on the challenged mail box voters on this morning at 9am.
I'll plan to be there unless I get snowed out.
UPDATE: The canvassing board voted to accept only those challenges where the voter fessed up and acknowledged that the mail box was not their actual residence. In nearly all of the other cases of mail box registrations, Dan Satterberg voted to accept the challenge while Dow Constantine and Dean Logan voted to reject the challenge on the grounds that the challenger failed to present clear and convincing evidence to prove that the voter did not really live at the mail box. They did, however, indicate that even though the challenger failed to meet their threshhold of proof in each particular case, they had enough concerns about mail box registrations in general that it would be appropriate for the Elections section to work with the Prosecuting Attorney's Office to take other actions against the mail box registrations as appropriate. Punchline: they effectively carved out some nice safe harbors for those who are intent on violating the voter registration laws. More later.
Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at November 28, 2005 07:42 AM | Email ThisNo chance. We are dealing with pure, political corruption here. Why would they change? They have been and continue to get away with vote fraud. No one, not even the Feds, will stop them. But then, the Feds have their own corruption problems, so what's new?
Just my prediction. We'll see at 9 am.
Posted by: liberty4all on November 28, 2005 08:18 AM
Hell Stephan had the right to challenge the voter at the polls, and the voter was allowed to go to a different poll to vote.
King County Elections used to have a statement stamped on all their official documents, which by the way seems to be missing from all the documents since the Governor's race.
It said something like "Where the Voting never stops"
I think they are reworking the statement to a more appropriate "Where Counting Never Stops"
So let the corruption continue!
Posted by: GS on November 28, 2005 08:32 AMMy reasoning...Washington has no enforcement of State or Federal election law. Therefore, King County was and is allowed to ignore whatever election law(s) they wish. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," thinking will prevail...and in the opinion of King County and the Washington liberal establisment it isn't broken, in fact it is working just fine. KC is allowed to influcence and change election outcomes statewide.
Once more KC will flout State election law, and our Constitutional rights will be trampled.
Posted by: dl on November 28, 2005 09:35 AMIt is greatly appreciated.
Posted by: sgmmac on November 28, 2005 10:31 AMIrregardless is a non standard word originating in the early 20th century. It is a bastardization of the two words "irrespective and regardless." It has been roundly criticized as incorrect grammar, usually by those pointy-headed morons who fancy themselves so superior to the rest of the neanderthals inhabiting the planet.
In other words...LIBERALS.
Posted by: Danny on November 28, 2005 12:37 PMKeep on Smokin whatever your smoking! IMO liberals like you have twisted more words than any "groupie" "peace lovin" sector of america. Keep up the good work, because you will be reaping what you sow, pretty darn soon.
Posted by: Chris on November 28, 2005 12:47 PMConspiracies are another matter, but unsubstantiated assertions, no matter how often and how vehemently repeated, don't make a conspiracy. They just make a blog.
Posted by: Bruce on November 28, 2005 12:50 PMIf KCE is doing their best, then what should the proper response be? (bracing for the answer)
Posted by: Danny on November 28, 2005 12:55 PMWhen those "scattered" cases AFFECT my Vote, it matters. It should matter to you also.
How would you like to spend thousands or perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars on a campaign, and with a slim margin, LOSE. Do you think the razor thin losers don't question the validity of those challenged voters.
That is just an example of how those "scattered" cases affect others around you.
They got whipped and humiliated so bad in the last election, they're simply grasping at straws trying to salvage some tattered shread of legitimacy by imagining they can intimidate and repress the honest voters of King County.
We have defeated them and have sent them scurrying like rats into the darkness.
We are more concerned with right and wrong. Your dream for good government cannot flow from corruption. Now, off you go to your latest bong hit.
Posted by: Danny on November 28, 2005 01:05 PMWho is "We" and who is "them"? There is no us and them here.
Stefan found problems with our election system. Stefan investigated and detailed the problems on his blog. Most of Stefan's blog readers support getting the problems out of the system. This is a noble cause that all voters should support.
Some readers are somehow bothered by this. Some readers seem to want the problems to stay in the system. If you think there are no signficant problems with the current system, then make your case. Stefan has made his case with detailed facts and evidence. Can you make as strong of a counter argument in defense of the current system? Can you refute the evidence? Let's have some intelligent discourse. Comments like "scurrying like rats" add nothing intelligent to the conversation.
Posted by: PW on November 28, 2005 01:21 PMYour asked for evidence. Here's a partial list:
1. Fraudulent mail ballot reports in 2004 and 2005 primary.
2. Failure to follow statutory requirement to determine if a registrant give a valid residence.
3. Mail ballots that did not meet statutory requirements.
4. Incorrect oaths given to election workers in the primary and incorrectly administered in both primary and general elections.
5. Failure to follow the statutory procedure when notified of suspected fraudulent registrations.
6. A large number of fraudulent actions from the 2004 General Election that Stefan has been investigating including: (a) Provisional ballots cast by voters who returned incomplete registrations and were not entitled to vote in the November 2004 election were counted. Some envelopes were marked “Fatal Pend” indicating that the ballot was rejected; yet the rejection was overridden by election officials and the ballots were counted; (b) Provisional ballots cast by unregistered voters were counted. Most of these voters were inexplicitly assigned to Precinct 1823, home of the King County Administration Building, even though their residential addresses are in different jurisdictions; (c) Provisional ballots cast by voters who also cast absentee ballots were counted. Markings on many of the envelopes prove that it was known that absentee ballots had been received; yet both ballots were counted.
The arguments against you ("You" being neo-conservatives and "We" being the rest of us) and your dirty tricks are well understood by anyone with common sense and well presented and fully documented in every media you could care to look at.
You guys got caught in this cheap political stunt and it backfired on you. Hey, you support an outmoded and dishonest political philosophy and it's catching up to you. What did you think was gonna happen?
Did you really think you'd get any traction?
You preach and pontificate about the "Rule Of Law" and how noble and high-minded your efforts are when really all you're trying to do is win an election.
Besides it's so easy to make fun of you poor fools, I just can't resist.
Posted by: Smokin' in the Boys' Room on November 28, 2005 01:43 PMLet me be very clear, KCE will try to give a nice sound bite and then ignore the challenge or throw it out based on some technical means. This is predictable, as is the deep deep corruption.
Posted by: Bob on November 28, 2005 03:20 PMBruce...Just because there has been no proper investigation or legal action does not mean there is no fraud, nor does it mean there is no conspiracy. It just means that the governing authorities have chosen not to investigate. Even Judge Bridges stated from the bench that KC had major election problems, which included but was not limited to 1,600 illegal ballots being counted.
Mr. Cynical...visualizing that 4 x 6 picture of a "residential" post office box...still laughing.
Rob...how would you suggest handeling the issue of illegal voter registrations? This IS the method that King County requested. You miss the point entirely, it's not about disenfranchising voters...it's about violations of state and federal election law. If Seattle has a unique situation of legal voters, who say live on boats, who's circumstances slip through the cracks of state law, then King County should contact SOS about how to properly and legally register said voters...not ignore the law and open the entire process to fraud and corruption, which is exactly what has happened.
Error rate of say 2% on 2 million voters (KC)= 40,000 errors compared to a 10% error rate on 400,000 voters is the same number of ERRORS.
You see, if you dont live in KC, your vote really means nothing. And if you do live in KC, it sometimes doesn't mean anything either, just depends on WHO is counting.
BTW Curious, Rossi won in ( I believe) 36 of the 39 counties. Does that tell you anything? Hmmmm
No citizen in any county should have to "look" for any of this - the county leadership should do it. In other counties, they elect the people to that position. Here, Dean Logan is appointed. Please join me in making his post an elected position, accountable to all of us.
Meantime, if any elected officials are turning a blind eye to registration issues in any county, they should be held accountable.
Since many of us on this blog live in King County, it's only natural that we begin here, at home, in our own backyard.
You asked if it was hypocritical? The answer is no. To begin trying to fix King County elections is not a way of affirming the elections practices in other counties.
Since ballots are supposedly secret, the improperly counted ballots could have been cast for anyone. I don't really care who they were cast for, at this point. Instead I don't ever want illegal votes to be counted again. Period.
Posted by: YourGovernorCostsMillion$ on November 28, 2005 03:30 PMYou are truly confused....Take another hit.
Posted by: Chris on November 28, 2005 03:41 PMWhat are the odds on their ability to determine whether the abstract is "valid"? I would make the Universe of Errors a favorite by at least a touchdown.
Posted by: Micajah on November 28, 2005 03:42 PMThose same person's when registering signed a similar statement (oath) when registering to vote. Does that make them "jailbirds" too????
Posted by: Chris on November 28, 2005 04:09 PMOnward HO !!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Chris on November 28, 2005 04:32 PMhttp://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/11/22/justice_sues_mo_for_alleged_voting_errors/
The US Justice department is suing the state of Missouri for not maintaining their voter registration files. Sounds like Missouri has the same problems as Washington.
Thanks, Stefan!
Posted by: sgmmac on November 28, 2005 04:36 PM"...let em Cheat, let em cheat, let em cheat..."
Disgusting.
Karl
Posted by: karl on November 28, 2005 04:58 PMRob...we are still waiting to see those little voters who signed declarations that they actually reside in those post office boxes. King County elections officials have signed affidavits under penalty of perjury that their election certification documentation is true and accurate...and it was total lies.
I have a question...does having your registration challenged stop your right to vote while the matter is being resolved? If the answer is no, just what is all the fuss about? King County as refused to perform their job duties in an ethical or legal manner, GOP is attempting to resolve some registration irregularities in the manner that KC has requested these matters be handled. All legal voters will retain their voting rights...again, what is the problem here?
Posted by: dl on November 28, 2005 05:30 PMShould the people who commit perjury by signing incorrect affadavits receive less, the same, or more jail time than those people who commit perjury by claiming to reside in a 4"x6" mailbox?
Since Dean Logan et al are not concerned about investigating nor convicting ANY group of people to this point - your hopes for future convictions will certainly not come to fruition.
Do you often get mad at the messenger - or only when the messenger is Republican?
Posted by: Larry on November 28, 2005 05:34 PMYou most certainly may vote while your right to vote is being challenged.
In fact, to date nobody has been able to provide proof that you cannot vote in Washington State if you don't have the right to vote. Do we know of anyone in Washington State history who has not been able to vote, regardless of their status to be able to do so??
Posted by: Larry on November 28, 2005 05:37 PMWhy do they ask for the public's help in cleaning up the rolls and then spit in the face of people who take them up on it??? Dean Logan has almost NO interest in enforcing election law. That is strong, but the proof is here, and so many other proven instances (Including in the training of pollworkers, where election law designed to discourage fraud is completely ignored!) UN-ACCEPTABLE!!! Dean Logan, we demand better!! Otherwise, please give your $124K job to someone who DOES care. We the citizens and taxapayers of this county deserve BETTER!!
Posted by: Misty on November 28, 2005 05:59 PMIf so, are they denying even the challenges where nobody showed up to defend an illegitimate registration?
What a complete crock.
Posted by: ewaggin on November 28, 2005 06:33 PM"A citizen's right to vote is a sacred pillar of our democracy," Logan said. "Any challenge to this right should not be brought lightly or ruled on without due consideration."
As for voter intent - the only way to get that ridiculous law changed is by initiative. Otherwise, I predict that Washington will no longer be a voter intent state about the same time he** freezes over.
Posted by: KS on November 28, 2005 07:13 PMOnce you get settled in Idaho, write us and let us know how that state handles its elections.
According to the Justice Department's web page, the National Voter Registration Act didn't cramp Idaho's style the way it has recently affected Missouri. (See the URL above, posted by sgmmac at November 28, 2005 04:36 PM.)
The NVRA became effective in most states on January 1, 1995. The Act applies to 44 states and the District of Columbia. Section 4(b) of the Act provided that states were exempt from the Act if, as of August 1, 1994, they had no voter registration requirements or had election-day registration at polling places. These six states are Idaho, Minnesota, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Wisconsin, and Wyoming.
I guess we should ask the Justice Department for an advisory opinion: Please define "requirements."
Posted by: Micajah on November 28, 2005 07:52 PMWhat do you expect when the inmates are in charge of the asylum?
Did anyone in this state actually believe that Dean Logan and Ron Sims would rule these challenges valid? To do so would eliminate and incriminate a good portion of their voter base..
Just remember - it was Dean Logan and Ron Sims who created the infamous Precinct 1823 as a clearinghouse for illegal ballots..(And they get away with it year after year!) No challenge will be honored, no evidence will be investigated, no illegal voter will be prosecuted as long as the Democrats control our state legislature, our county elections and our regional FBI..
Our troll posters are either too stupid to understand the importance of election integrity or they are just too brainwashed to practice critical thinking. Someday, they will wake up and feel sooo foolish..(like an ex-Moonie does...or maybe they will just drink that koolaid like a Jonesie...) They don't produce a fair and balanced debate on any of this troubling election fraud...With them it's more a fool and brainwashed debate... We don't have to allow them here. Stefan has the power to delete and ban. Allowing the troll posts has brought absolutely nothing constructive or positive to this blog.
As long as the Republican party continues to treat the law-breaking liberals as equals - worthy of civil debate, they will continue to be trampled, mugged and robbed by them....The same goes for this blog...
Posted by: Deborah on November 28, 2005 07:58 PM"shread" is not a word.
Posted by: ItTakesAVillageToConveneAGrandJury on November 28, 2005 08:04 PMRe my earlier positing, I said Right or wrong, most people are more concerned with making sure no one is improperly denied the right to vote than with scattered cases of people voting illegally. I've added the emphasis for those of you who need it. As a mathematician I understand that 1 illegal vote is as bad as 1 illegally denied vote. As a matter of public perception, it's not. If you want to change the system, it is more effective to deal with the reality as perceived by most people than to mock it.
Posted by: Bruce on November 28, 2005 08:29 PMBruce appears to be saying that scattered cheating is OK as long as noone is disenfranchised. Sounds like moral relativism here - (ie. It depends on what the meaning of the word is, is). I know that a vast majority of people who vote are more concerned about illegal voting- those who aren't are those who believe that it is OK to win by any means - they refer to your ilk as anarchists. Moonbats and leftists are also anarchists as they don't have any principles either.
Posted by: KS on November 28, 2005 09:24 PMHe doesn't enforce election law nearly enough and ignores laws designed to prevent fraud (as Stefan learned at pollwoker training and on-the-job as a pollworker). He puts out misleading ballot reports without telling anybody and forces employees to count known illegal votes like the famous fatal pends ballots that a group connected with vote fraud wanted him to count. This is outrageous. Except for the few mentioned in the post, he gives known registration cheats (intentional or not) every chance to keep doing so. Just look at the results of this hearing. How many of those other registrations will ever really be investigated by the Prosecutor's office even while it's painfully obvious that not one of these people live at their mailboxes?
This is tough language, but unfortunately well-deserved by Logan. He needs to do his job in a way that protects legal voters and election integrity or get out of the way and let a more conscientious person do the job. After all, it was Judge Bridges himself that told us it was up to us to DEMAND that KCE clean up its act. Well--here we are, demanding that very thing and we won't be quiet until we get clean elections in King County.
And if Dean Logan doesn't want to enforce election law, then he should at least be honest and openly argue for getting rid of the laws he doesn't care to enforce, or at least put out a press release detailing all the election law he has no intention of enforcing. Then at least he wouldn't he talking out of both sides of his mouth and people would see him for what he is doing.
Posted by: Misty on November 28, 2005 09:36 PM"As a mathematician I understand that 1 illegal vote is as bad as 1 illegally denied vote."
A equals B, but only if A and B both exist.
Several thousand illegal votes have been proven to exist in a court of law. Can you or anyone else point to one single instance of a deserving Washington voter being denied their right to participate in our Democracy?
Never in my life, in three decades of living and working and studying in Chicago, Denver, and Seattle, have I ever known of someone being denied their right to vote.
In this particular case, one illegal vote is much worse than one illegally denied vote, because there's no such thing as an illegally denied vote.
Posted by: Larry on November 28, 2005 09:41 PMAs for Bruce's "scattered illegal vote" dismissal, true--no system is perfect--but--use that "scattered mistakes" theory on any cashier at any store--see if they are as dismissive about handling cash, much less votes--they balance out their cash drawers or they personally 'eat' it--so why are accurate, honest vote counts no less important?
voting irregularities are like small cracks in a very large dam--do we want to ignore them or fix them? and when? after they grow larger? after the breach?
Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on November 28, 2005 10:37 PMStefan's encounter with a confessed illegal voter while in his position as a Poll Judge...only to have KCE coddle the illegal voter and welcome his vote? Why would KCE chance such a single stupid thing - unless they want to flaunt their ability to do it.
Ron Sim's nephew's illegal voting registration - using Sims residence as his address?...Another single stupid flaunt..
The Democrats collection of Felon affidavits at the Rossi trial - admitting they voted in last years election...and using those affidavits as a defense? And with these..the Judge ruled in their favor?? Using *certified* illegal voters to win a court battle? That's a big flaunt!
Stefan's discovery of election log and transaction tampering...? They probably purposely gave him the tools to find it!
The Democrats immediate push for All Mail voting right after the most controversial election in our history...? This was an obvious red flag...
The lack of response or the inept response from our state Republicans..? Do we even HAVE a true conservative party in this state?
The lack of action by the Republican legal team - to pursue evidence, prior to and during the election trial...? I saw them purposely sputter out by the second day....I wonder who paid them off?
How much more "In your face" do we need before we step back and see that this is bigger and more orchestrated than a few fringe liberals in Seattle could muster?
Sit back and watch....The liberals love to flaunt their illegal power and corruption here. They could never get away with all that they do if the Republicans didn't help them with their silence and ineptitude. The Republicans are the majority in the nations congress - yet they can't see fit to investigate the state of Washington's current Democrat corruption?
Ron Sims had an approval rating of less than 40% - yet he received the most votes by some unrealistic margin? And we can do nothing to prove fraud....Heck...no one even cares anymore!
I was never into soap-operas...Maybe this day to day "in your face" torture appeals to some people...Not me.....Are we going to be here yet another year discussing yet another corrupt election and more losses of civil rights and freedoms?
Posted by: Deborah on November 28, 2005 11:57 PMIf you are mad at what happens now, you can look back to that weak attempt to field a legitimate alternative to the King County Executive (David Irons) and focus your anger there.
Now we have to grin and bear it, its as simple as that. The rules and the decisions are now in the hands of those that are only interested in recreating what has worked so well in California.
There is one other alternative that we have. Initiative 23 needs people to gather signatures so it can go on the ballot in King County. It would establish an "elected" position for the County Elections Auditor.
Next time we have a chance to do something in an "off season election", maybe conservatives will take it a little more seriously.
Posted by: jaybo on November 29, 2005 06:32 AM
That would be Constantine and Logan.
Posted by: South County on November 29, 2005 06:54 AMWhere is our Department of Justice investigation? Where is the FBI? Other states have benefited from elections investigations with less cause that our local situation, WHAT IS WRONG that we can't get one?
I used to wonder at the midset and conditions whereby the Pilgrims packed up a few belongings and moved to a different hemisphere. To live the rest of your life away from everything and everyone familiar, to raise your family in the wilderness with few or no luxeries, at great risk to your health and life amidst poverty and hardship...NOW I KNOW.
Speechless...I have no words to accurately describe the current condition of corruption in Washington State, or my frustration with the unwillingness of government at all levels to ignore obvious corruption and illegal behavior. This is the type of oppression our forefathers fought to escape.
Posted by: dl on November 29, 2005 08:19 AMThe Washington State Republican Party does not think that change in King County is crucial to success for their party. This is an error in judgement that will kill the party's chances in future elections.
Republicans, convervatives and moderates better wake up quick, cause if we don't you can kiss the state of Washington goodbye.
Posted by: jaybo on November 29, 2005 08:33 AMLogan loves to play the liberal game of the law being black and white when it pertains to others but gray when it comes to him and what he is told to do by his handlers.
Logan lives in a hazey world not unlike that of a prostitute fed drugs by a pimp. In Logan's case it's obvious who the pimp is.
Posted by: Prudence on November 29, 2005 08:52 AMIt lightens my heart to see you play the role of the spurned suitor. Your feeble attempts to fight the results of the last election reveals your true nature.
After all being a sore loser is one of the things Neo-conservatism is about!
What? Do you guys take kvetching classes at Neocon boot camp?
If you had won the election would you still be making this fuss? Of course not.
Now I can just hear what you’ll say, “It’s not about winning elections, it’s about good government!”
To that I say, “What a crock!”
Your motives are transparent, you guys aren’t fooling anybody.
Your dirty tricks just reinforce the negative Neocon stereotype held by most people in King County and further insure your future defeats.
Keep up the good work!
You made it to school!!! I see the bus ride ride wasn't too much for you this morning, your wit astounds me!!!
Posted by: Chris on November 29, 2005 09:01 AMRCW 29A.08.110 probably doesn't apply to Dean Logan because he technically isn't an "auditor"....
RCW 29A.08.110
Auditor's procedure. (Effective until January 1, 2006.)
(1) On receipt of an application for voter registration under this chapter, the county auditor shall review the application to determine whether the information supplied is complete. An application that contains the applicant's name, complete valid residence address, date of birth, and signature attesting to the truth of the information provided on the application is complete. If it is not complete, the auditor shall promptly mail a verification notice of the deficiency to the applicant.
Failure of the auditor to follow RCW 29A.08.110 then puts us into the current situation of RCW 29A.08.830
Affidavit -- Administration, notice of challenge.
where "The person filing the challenge must furnish the address at which the challenged voter actually resides."
So, if you are able to register without a complete valid residence address then, according to Dean Logan, someone must prove where you live. Why does an INVALID residential address not override the "proof of current residence" portion of the law.
With what we have seen over the last year, if you can get an illegal registration into the system, you're almost scot-free. If you cast an illegal ballot without getting caught, it will be counted.
Not very encouraging for clean elections.
Posted by: SouthernRoots on November 29, 2005 09:16 AM
irregardless
One entry found for irregardless.
Main Entry: ir·re·gard·less
Pronunciation: "ir-i-'gärd-l&s
Function: adverb
Etymology: probably blend of irrespective and regardless
nonstandard : REGARDLESS
usage Irregardless originated in dialectal American speech in the early 20th century. Its fairly widespread use in speech called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. The most frequently repeated remark about it is that "there is no such word." There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose. Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance. Use regardless instead.
For More Information on "irregardless" go to Britannica.com
Get the Top 10 Search Results for "irregardless"
Indeed.
This blog (and the Washington State Republican Party) has lost all touch with reality. You are so wrapped into your hysteria that you aren't seeing clearly, and as a result, you think the rest of the world is lost.
This reminds me of the apologetics that I used to participate in when I was a mormon. It was so "obvious" to me that mormonism was true, and that everyone else was just a lying evil sinner for rejecting it.
I was really holding out to see how well the Republicans would do to put forward a decent challenge to Ron Sims; he was a weakened candidate, and there were legitimate questions raised. I'm now confident that this political stunt of challenging voters, filed at a politically opportune time just prior to the election by Chris Vance, completely backfired. And, David Irons? That was the best you could do?
I also notice that charges of fraud and corruption still abound, and yet I've never seen either charge substantiated on this blog. You've taken innuendo and wrapped yourselves in it so tightly that you can't see straight.
Every county has an error rate. If you focus too closely on those errors, you can convince yourself of just about anything. By being hyper-focused on the errors in King County, you've lost all sense of reality.
But, just as I wouldn't listen to anything that didn't confirm that I was right when I was a mormon, this group has become a cult of irrationality. In other words, carry on.
Posted by: An Observer on November 29, 2005 12:51 PMSeveral other states and municipalities have recently benefited from FBI and/or Dept. of Justice investigations. And although our election problems are among some of the worst nationally, it doesn't appear we will be getting any assistance.
It's difficult not to be depressed and cynical about this...but there is no help in the forseeable future.
Posted by: dl on November 29, 2005 01:08 PM
"Get over it",
not likely,
more likely
"Get on with it!"
You have "bought into" the local republican's excuses for why they keep losing elections. As long as you and others allow them the ability to convince us of this, we will never see change.
If you think you can look to the federal government for help, you're dreaming. Look around you; what about California, Wisconsin, Michigan and New Jersey? Has the federal government stepped in to clean-up their elections?
You cannot see change in King County on one or two issues alone. This was one of several mistakes that David Irons made. Remember what Irons' stance was on I912? Do you remember what he campaigned on? This is not the way to win.
I really am surprized that most republicans and conservatives have fallen for the mistaken belief that King County cannot elect a fiscal conservative that can offer a sane approach to growth in the county.
My biggest frustration is with like minded people like yourself. People that have moderate or conservative opinions on the role of government but have (like local party officials) given up.
Posted by: dl on November 29, 2005 03:20 PMYou are right.
Paradoxically, I think it will take the inevitable failures by the Gregoire and Sims' administrations to startle the electorate out of it's malaise. While there is plenty of cause for defeatism, fortune favors the brave and the committed. Our time will come; we need to stay committed, and be ready to recognized opportunities and united to sieze them.
In the meantime, stay sharp (like Stefan) and take no crap from liberals.
Posted by: Amused by liberals on December 2, 2005 02:32 PMI agree with the dl who said, "My biggest frustration is with like minded people."
Posted by: Amused by liberals on December 2, 2005 02:36 PMAnOb says, ”I . . . notice that charges of fraud and corruption still abound, and yet I've never seen either charge substantiated on this blog. You've taken innuendo and wrapped yourselves in it so tightly that you can't see straight.”
On the contrary AnOb, as a herd of liberals, you've taken fraud and wrapped yourselves in it so tightly that you can't distinguish it from innuendo let alone discern its existence. Your attitude reflects a complete indifference to reality combined with a wry fondness of corruption.
We can see right through you, because we don’t wish to be petty criminals (democrats), and we care about the truth more than power. We understand that real power can come from seeking the truth but all that ever comes from corruption is degeneracy.
One might wish to speculate, “What would a liberal like AnOb consider “seeing straight”; would it include such things as integrity, honesty, abiding by law, or requiring fact based conclusions?” They would be fooling themselves, because the answer is much simpler. Seeing straight to liberals’ means only seeing those things it takes to “win”. Of course ignoring the truth for political gain is sacrificing integrity, but liberals don’t care because they sincerely believe the ends justify the means. They feeeel that they are correct and that’s good enough for them. When facts or rules can be twisted to mean anything at any time, anything can be factual, so facts don’t matter.
Winning power for its sake is one thing. Protecting and securing freedom and decency requires something liberal Democrats have discarded—integrity.