November 11, 2005
The railroad to hell is paved with good intentions

Danny Westneat thinks our government should follow Canada's example and raise billions more in taxes without our consent in order to build more railroads for our own good. "It's time we curb votes on transit"

For some reason, the autocrats love their trains.

Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at November 11, 2005 09:39 AM | Email This
Comments
1. Hey Westneat: If you don't love it, leave it. Go find a gulag somewhere. You want to ride the freakin train, move to Vancouver.

Posted by: SnoCo Voter on November 11, 2005 09:45 AM
2. Gee, Stefan, you're such a kill-joy. Trains are such neat toys. I had an old-style Lionel set (027 gauage) when I was little and I thought it was just the berries. Every time I earned a few pennies mowing lawns or turning in pop bottles, I'd go down to the hobby store for another car or section of track. It was fun.

These politicians haven't outgrown their childhood instincts. Only now they go for billions of public tax dollars to play with their toys, instead of a few pennies here and there in spare change.

Posted by: Interested Observer on November 11, 2005 10:03 AM
3. Beats a bond issue to buy the land, doesn't it? Lots of that property could be converted to a bike trail couldn't it?

Why sell it? Government does a better job of land developing than the private sector, doesn't it? Just talk to your local politician, especially the rude and arrogant ones.
Posted by swatter at November 11, 2005 10:05 AM

Posted by: swatter on November 11, 2005 10:06 AM
4. I just love it when the media elite and oblivious legislators decide that we, the people, don't need to vote because they all know what is best for us and will decide what are needs are too.
Christ- these "progressives" make Lenin look like a humanitarian.

Posted by: John425 on November 11, 2005 10:11 AM
5. Stefan

1) I read your posting and the aricle links to Danny Westneat and Mussolini
2) Having grown up in Northern NJ, railroads can work, but you have to remember these lines were built in the 1840's and have been maintained since then.
3) SoundTransit was originally scheduled to run by Boeing Field b4 going to SeaTac. Ron Sims by pushing light rail thru Martin Luther King has destroyed a neighborhood and made the commute time unacceptible.
4) Trains will work, but the quality of the Puget Sound politician will muck it up.
5) Earlier in the 1900's we had Interurban transit from Tacoma to Seattle and Seattle to Everett.
6) The other problem facing Puget Sound is that BNSF is only one track while on the East Coast there are 2 to 4 tracks.
7) Finally we just do not have the intellectual capacity at Sound Transit or in the government agencies to properly implement light rail.
8) If Ron Simms, Christine Gregorire, and Greg Nickels were serious on light rail and transportation, they would hire the retired and laid off Boeing employees with "big project" experience versus their friends.
9) Seattle likes to study things to death, thus most of us will be collecting what's left of Social Security b4 light rail is built.
10) Finally Sound Transit is the Dead Beat Dad of government agencies. ST signs contracts but does not pay the companies. See the Puget Sound Business Journal.b

Posted by: Green Lake Mark on November 11, 2005 10:12 AM
6. SnoCo:

Vancouver..BC...that is!

Posted by: Susu on November 11, 2005 10:14 AM
7. Unreal. Positively scary.

And Westneat reveals the REAL desire of the lefties: changing the law so that the gas tax can go to something OTHER than roads. As in--forcing 'evil' drivers of cars to pay gas tax for oodles of mass transit.

Fuh-get about it.

Posted by: Realist on November 11, 2005 10:25 AM
8. Socialist autocrats make me puke.

Posted by: Tahan on November 11, 2005 10:39 AM
9. So, it appears we have found the little pony already and it only took a couple of days.

We are going to focus on Sound Transit and demand a coordinated transportation system. Not bad, eh Tim?

Sound like a valuable thing to do?

Posted by: swatter on November 11, 2005 10:50 AM
10. INTERESTED OBSERVER
You mowed lawns as a child? Are you okay?
Do you need counseling? Try to find a kid
around here to do some work.

Posted by: mark on November 11, 2005 10:57 AM
11. Wow, so this is what Times columnists get paid to produce...can't the paper just hire a bull?


One...if Westneat thinks people need to have stuff shoved down their throats, he obviously thinks he won't be one of them. How does he know this? If we get a government strong enough to strong arm us, the first thing to go will be a free, objective press...


Okay, bad example.


The pros, he says, are the ones to build transportation projects. Actually, their track record is the best reason to fire them and lock them up where they can't "help" anyone.


Let's look at the Convention Center. Back when it was proposed the WSDOT knew it effectively capped lane capacity on I-5. Back then, as you will recall, HOV lanes were the wave of the future. The WSDOT, even then, was hostile to the idea of new GPLs.


When it became clear that HOV lanes were not in fact the future of transportation, GPLs were not embraced. Instead, we got rapid transit. We got Sound Transit, which sold one product and delivered another. If I did that as a businessman I'd be in jail, and politicians such as Sims would be cheering.


The Monorail was the victim of flawed assumptions. The planners "assumed" they could believe the numbers on car licensing provided to them by...Sound Transit. Sound Transit cooked the books from one end of the operation to the other. No one should be surprised they were short by 1/3rd. That's why the Monorail didn't pencil out.


So, tell me again, Westneat...why should I trust the "pros?" More to the point, why should I trust "journalists?" The reporting on Sound Transit and the election fiasco has been reprehensible.

Posted by: South County on November 11, 2005 11:05 AM
12. Westneat is a moron:
When it got in trouble, though, it had nowhere to turn for help. The monorail learned it matters quite a lot to have the government pros on your side.

No, the monorail learned that they had to have a workable plan for the taxpayers to support it! What is it with these libs? Are there a series of injections they take that kill brain cells?

Posted by: Steve_dog on November 11, 2005 12:05 PM
13. We all know that Mr. Westneat is a complete and total idiot ! How can somebody so stupid ever learn to use a keyboard ? The sad fact is... that there are hundreds of thousands of Western Washington types that would agree with him. The Pols in the Soviet of Seattle have wasted 1/4 BILLION dollars on the Monorail without ever building 1 inch of track. As punishment for this colossol boondoggle.. the voters have rewarded these very same pols with 4 more BILLION dollars.
ONLY IN SEATTLE !! Mr. Westneat could not understand the idiocy of this circumstance if he lived to be 10,000 years old.

Posted by: not surprised on November 11, 2005 12:17 PM
14. 1) tax us out of our cars
2) Pack us into trains like sardines
3) Let Al Queda in through porous borders
and
4) We have Madrid in the Pacific Northwest

Posted by: Jim L on November 11, 2005 01:03 PM
15. This is my feeling on this: if the vote of the people matters then it should not require 5 votes for the people’s voice to be heard. Nothing will ever get done that way.

Meanwhile, if we’re going to stick with initiatives as a way to screw around with legislation, I proposed the next time Tim Eyman wants to re-pave his driveway we put that to a statewide vote.

Posted by: Daniel K on November 11, 2005 01:21 PM
16. Daniel K-Don't you mean legislators screwing around with Initiatives? I don't recall the people putting anything up for 5 votes but I recall politicians doing so.

Posted by: John425 on November 11, 2005 01:27 PM
17. Susu,
Yes, BC. I keep forgetting Vancouver IS multiple choice.

Posted by: SnoCo Voter on November 11, 2005 01:39 PM
18. John425 - Speaking of the Monorail votes, some were not citizen ballot measures, that's true.

Posted by: Daniel K on November 11, 2005 01:41 PM
19. Last I heard, Eyman was a private citizen. As such, he can take what's left of the money he's earned (not confiscated by both WAs) and pay another private citizen to pave his driveway.

I suggest we put it to an initiative at that point in time when Eyman wants the taxpayers to pay for his driveway.

Posted by: Danny on November 11, 2005 02:01 PM
20. Westneat obviously doesn't get it. So we should trust the government to efficiently implement transit project unfettered ? Did you forget about the Big Dig in Boston - for one? So he's concerned about Canadians laughing at us because they don't have to get permission from the people before building large transit projects... just compare their economy with ours and see who is laughing then.

Sound Transit was inefficiently designed and it will encounter additional cost overruns when digging the tunnel in Rainier Valley/Beacon Hill. So the monorail was OK as it was - that's what he seems to be saying. Fortunately, I don't live in Seattle and so the Seattle voters finally got it on the fifth time that the monorail was severely flawed.

Posted by: KS on November 11, 2005 02:28 PM
21. Here's my letter to the editor of the Times:
Dear “Danny boy”:
I loved your Nov. 11 column; real funny. Before you get down on the voters again for interfering with “your” transportation system, you might want to get some perspective. While you were still growing up, in Ohio, I believe, natives such as myself had the daily pleasure to drive by the legendary “freeways to nowhere,” in downtown Seattle. Maybe an adult in the Times’ archives could help you find the pictures of these freeway bridges, on-ramps, and straight-aways that literally started and stopped in the middle of the air.
There were probably at least half of a dozen of these just in the Seattle city limits alone, and not one voter or initiative had a hand in creating any of these monumental blunders which stood for more than a decade. Before you start pointing the finger at the average voter, who picks up all of the bills for your road and ferry systems, you might reflect that the bureaucrats in this state earned their reputations all by themselves.
Ciao for now,
Haze Doran

Posted by: Haze Doran on November 11, 2005 02:39 PM
22. The monorail initiatives promised a full system under an established financing structure. The first four votes were the citizens of Seattle saying "Let's give this a chance, let them do their work, and see what they can come up with." because the pols viewed the plan as essentially unworkable.

Then the monorail staff found that the plan was unworkable without major changes to the system or the financing of the system. The people of Seattle realized that they weren't getting the bang for the buck that they'd been promised and killed the system.

My biggest issue with initiatives to overturn legislative decisions is that it bypasses the republican form of government which provides us the ability to elect persons to serve as our representatives in government. We also have the ability to remove those persons from office and replace them with others if they're not serving our interests. As the congressional election of 1994 showed, when the people are ready for change they can make it happen, even against entrenched interests.

As far as the State not spending transportation money efficiently, isn't that what the initiative that allows for audits purposefully designed to address?

As far as gas in general, you made the choice to purchase something that uses consumable fuel that must be replenished frequently - you make the choice to pay more money at the pump if your vehicle isn't fuel efficient. As for long commutes, you made a choice to live away from your workplace. I live in Seattle and work in Bellevue and I've made the choice to save myself money by using the bus to get to and from work. It's all about providing people with choice and giving them transportation options.

And, finally, when did having a car and being able to drive become something we'd consider a fundamental right? It's not - it's a choice.

Posted by: Roscha on November 11, 2005 05:25 PM
23. Mark, it was a long, long time ago when children used to listen to their parents about the virtues of working for your money. No "allowances" (handouts) for us. I was the lawn mowing tycoon and my brother ran a paper route. I guess we followed in the footsteps of our Dad who delivered milk door to door. Sometimes I wonder how we survived at all...

Posted by: Interested Observer on November 11, 2005 07:31 PM
24. Sorry, Roscha--getting a drivers license doesn't give you a choice to drive your car, but a right to drive your car. And even if all single occupant driving was a choice (it's not, but let's pretend), then there is still no excuse not to build general purpose lanes as no amount of public transit systems are going to feed Seattle but the freeways do. The problem with all these grandiose public transit programs is they suck money away from building the roads we need for precisely that purpose, among other economic reasons as roads are a means of commerce and have been since the Romans started building the Appian Way.

Posted by: Marc on November 11, 2005 09:03 PM
25. Here is a letter I sent

As long as you want to end voting on transportation, why not end voting on elected officials, because so much of their time is spent campaigning, this way they could spend more time levying taxes against us for stuff we don't want. If you really want a monorail so bad, then buy one. If you can't afford it, don't force me to pay for it because I don't want it. I understand that you want an end to individual freedoms to vote to end taxes, or mass transit systems, and accordingly, you should probably move to a socialist paradise with no individual freedoms like Canada, or possibly France, where everyone is happy all the time except when rioting across the country.
A few hundred years ago, a bunch of freedom loving people got together to fight a war for individual freedom. I stand by their work for freedom. That is why this country is envied, for it's freedom. Take that away, and we are not citizens, only subjects.

Posted by: Freedom for everyone on November 12, 2005 11:02 AM
26. I didn't realize that Danny has such socialist ideas. I do think that initiatives are special interest group driven.

I just googled Vancouver and their transportation system. They have approx 2 million people in the area and their transportation system is paid for by (approx) 1/3 fares, 1/3 gas taxes, and 1/3 property taxes. They also just had a large property tax increase.

Interesting system...... theri construction costs obviously don't follow Macon-Davis!

Posted by: sgmmac on November 12, 2005 03:19 PM
27. The comments of the work ethics of long ago brought back my own experience of several summers. I had a friend with an afternoon paper route and I had a morning route. We would deliver my papers in the morning on bikes, ride out to the strawberry field and pick berries at sixty cents a flat. Ride back to town and deliver his papers. If we were in little league and it was game day we played ball and then biked out to the fishing hole for some evening fishing. We usually had a tent set up and sleeping bags so we would spend the night and do it all again the next day. I don't know how I survived the pesticides and the slave labor. Oh yeah, we didn't know what a bike helmet was and yes we crashed many times, we were taught how to avoid bashing your head by doing a shoulder roll.

Posted by: Shmoe on November 13, 2005 09:02 AM
28. Perhaps Danny should move to Vancouver BC and join the raucous laughter at us hapless King County folks. And take the Seattle Times with him, too.

Posted by: Gary on November 14, 2005 07:24 PM
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