November 04, 2005
Lunatic fringe blogs spread false and unsubstantiated rumors

My good friend Dan Savage at The Stranger regrettably jumped the gun and rebroadcast an as yet unsubstantiated claim by an anonymous poster. The poster claims to be one of the voters challenged by the GOP on the grounds that they were registered at a private mailbox service in lieu of a bona fide residence -- except that the poster insists that they live at a Belltown apartment building, all 60 of whose residents were falsely challenged.

At this point we don't know the address of the alleged apartment building, so we don't know whether this is real or not. The lack of verifiable details hasn't stopped the various disreputable leftwing blogs from running with the story.

UPDATE: The Stranger now has more details, the GOP admitted and apologized for mistakenly challenging some number of voters.

Nevertheless, The Stranger blog still posts some false information about this case that is making its way through the loonie left hysteria mill --

When I vote, my vote will be put into a "challenge" pile. Then I will have to show up in person at an administrative hearing, which I'm sure I'll have to take off work for, to prove that I live at an actual, physical address. So will all my neighbors. That's the only way our votes will be counted.
Completely false. According to the state law on voter challenges:

1) the burden is on the challenger to:

prove to the canvassing board by clear and convincing evidence that the challenged voter's registration is improper
If the challenger fails to meet the burden, the challenged vote stands.

2) Since the burden is on the challenger, the challenged voter with an unassailable case doesn't even have to testify on their own behalf. But if they wish to testify, the same state law permits them to submit a written affidavit in lieu of a personal appearance.

Frankly, I'm embarrassed that the GOP didn't do a more careful job of preparing the list of voters for the challenge. Any challenges discovered to be incorrect should be immediately retracted and the affected voters should receive a personal apology and correct information to make sure their vote will count. But the bigger issue is that individual citizen volunteers should not be forced into the role of cleaning up the voter rolls in the place of government officials who willfully fail to do their jobs. It is illegal to register to vote at a mailbox and King County Elections used to prevent such illegal registrations. Dean Logan made a policy decision to remove those safeguards and permit illegal registrations. If he had done his job and kept the system in place to distinguish between legitimate and invalid addresses, this controversy wouldn't even exist. Yet another reason why Ron Sims and Dean Logan have to go.

Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at November 04, 2005 02:57 PM | Email This
Comments
1. Someone needs to reassure this woman that she doesn't have a thing to worry about: after all, since Dean Logan lets a guy who lives in Atlanta with no residence ties whatsoever at this point with Washington vote here, no reason she's gonna have any problems doing so, either.

Posted by: Realist on November 4, 2005 03:14 PM
2. Right now I'm listening to John Carlson and just found out the debate between David Irons, Ron Sims & Gentry Lang the Green party candidate will start 4:00 P.M. today!! Time for Ron to Go.

Posted by: Laurie on November 4, 2005 03:18 PM
3. Goldy becomes unhinged so often that I don't think anyone takes him seriously other than the few loons that frequent his site.

Posted by: Jeff B. on November 4, 2005 03:25 PM
4. The left doesn't care about truth or facts. They believe in group think and that if they say a lie enough it will become truth. And they know once the lie is found out, it's the conservatives fault and they move on to the next lie because the MSM will help.

Posted by: Dengle on November 4, 2005 03:34 PM
5. Look on the bright side. At least now, KCGOP's allegations will have visibility in the MSM.

Posted by: huckleberry on November 4, 2005 03:38 PM
6. sorry, Shark. But the GOPs screwup in this case trumps the truth they were putting out there. You gotta have your own house clean when you throw stones.

Why didn't the numbskulls in the GOP take the time to do a driveby survey or windshield survey? No wonder they lost the slamdunk election contest. And that contest put them in the hole about a 1/2 mil.

Posted by: swatter on November 4, 2005 03:43 PM
7. The King County GOP, with the support and assistance of the WSRP, challenged the registrations of 1,943 people our research indicated were registered to vote illegally. Today, we are rescinding 140 of those challenges that were made in error.

We apologize for the small number of errors we made, but we stand by this effort. Last year, King County counted thousands of illegal votes. They have shown no willingness to prevent this from happening again so we will continue to aggressively work to make sure that only legal votes are counted.

It is not us, but Ron Sims and Dean Logan who owe the people of King County an apology.

Chris Vance

Posted by: Chris Vance on November 4, 2005 04:02 PM
8. Hey, Chris, by law the burden of proof is on you, not on the voter. Good luck with that.

Posted by: ivan on November 4, 2005 04:21 PM
9. Chris,
The local news will be all over the error of the 140. The error may be proportionately small but press fallout will be proportionately large.

Why aren't facts being checked ahead of time? Are you short personnel?

As a republican in Ukraine County, we have to be perfect, no room for error.

Have you called the KOMO/KIRO/KING/Times media to let them know that 1943-140=1803 people are still challenged? And have those 1803 been checked?

The press is going to paint the 140 in error as only the tip of the error, maybe there are 1400 more that are in error? Can't have that.

Posted by: Michael on November 4, 2005 04:25 PM
10. Chris I applaud you assisting Stefan in exposing this gross incompetance! David Irons is also doing a good job of holding Mr Sims feet to the fire.I would like to see David Irons win convincingly in a landslide & belive this will improve the chance of this happening!

Posted by: Laurie on November 4, 2005 04:30 PM
11. We have been talking to the press all day. I will be on Dave Ross at 4:50.

Posted by: Chris Vance on November 4, 2005 04:31 PM
12. Someone call Vance a whaaaaaaambulance! That ever so small, under 10% margin of error is several time more than the one he and Sharkansky ptiched a fit about in the last election. Pathetic.

Posted by: John on November 4, 2005 05:08 PM
13. Gee, who's more disreputable, the "leftwing" blogs, who were the first to press with factual information? The GOP lackey, who merely signed a form "under penalty of perjury" without verifying its contents? The corrupt political party, which did an increadibly sloppy job in their hunt for illegal voters? Or the right-wing blogger who attacked the Stranger for getting the truth out?

Posted by: John on November 4, 2005 05:13 PM
14. Chris Vance at November 4, 2005 04:02 PM -- Your "small number of errors" were easily avoidable with the exercise of due diligence before filing those challenges. If your people cannot get such simple things right, why should anyone have confidence in you?

Posted by: Micajah on November 4, 2005 05:25 PM
15. First Scooter Libby, now Linda Soleto... you Republicans don't know when to stop defending perjury, do you?

Posted by: Joshua H on November 4, 2005 05:42 PM
16. My previous post called Lori Soleto "Linda Soleto". My intern typed the previous post under my name, but I place full blame on Stefan Sharkansky, Chris Vance, and David Irons.

Posted by: Joshua H on November 4, 2005 05:45 PM
17. The trolls are here! The trolls are here! Go back to HA, please.

Posted by: katomar on November 4, 2005 06:28 PM
18. A. We aren't trolls, we're just pointing out Sharkansky & Vance's gross hypocrisy.
B. Why on earth would we go to HA, you right wing trolls have made discussion nearly impossible there, but then that was your intent, wasn't it.

Posted by: John on November 4, 2005 06:30 PM
19. OK John, I'll play.

Please illustrate this so-called "hypocrisy" (gross or otherwise).

As for HA, Stay. Or go. I don't care either way. (If you hang around, the atmosphere might raise your IQ into the double-digits ;'}

Posted by: alphabet soup on November 4, 2005 07:22 PM
20. Jesus... you GOops are spinning this thing so hard I could do my laundry here. Hey, next time you clowns want to suppress voter turnout, just put roadblocks in black neighborhoods. Or bad voting machines. Or whatever else you guys do in FL and OH. Besides, why give Logan more work right up against the election? Somebody really needs to send Irons in here to beat some sense into ya'll.

Posted by: Big Sky Dem on November 4, 2005 07:27 PM
21. Look, the truth of the matter is this, David Irons is getting his ass kicked all over King County by Ron Sims and so Republicans did what Republicans always do, they tried to steal an election by disenfranchising thousands of voters in Seattle. Nothing new here. I just wish you people would quit being such sore losers and accept defeat with grace.

Posted by: joanne on November 4, 2005 07:46 PM
22. Look, the truth of the matter is this, David Irons is getting his ass kicked all over King County by Ron Sims and so Republicans did what Republicans always do, they tried to steal an election by disenfranchising thousands of voters in Seattle. Nothing new here. I just wish you people would quit being such sore losers and accept defeat with grace.

Posted by: joanne on November 4, 2005 07:46 PM
23. You do have one thing right BFD - When it comes to vote suppression, you really have to go to the 'rats ;'}

Posted by: alphabet soup on November 4, 2005 07:47 PM
24. Regardless, the fact is that Democrats like to vote early and vote often.

Posted by: holt on November 4, 2005 08:04 PM
25. Vance stressed that the letters were not part of a vote-suppression effort, and therefore Sotelo’s letters, with their false declarations made “under penalty of perjury,” were not illegal. “If she had been wrong on purpose, that would be perjury,” Vance said. “But we made an error.”

ACTUAL LAW:
RCW 9A.72.080
Statement of what one does not know to be true.
Every unqualified statement of that which one does not know to be true is equivalent to a statement of that which he knows to be false.
[1975 1st ex.s. c 260 § 9A.72.080.]


Perjury in the First Degree in Washington is a Class B Felony punishable by imprisonment for up to ten years and a fine of up to twenty thousand dollars. Several voters should be filing criminal complaints here. It would seem to be an open and shut case.


Posted by: Perdita Durango on November 4, 2005 08:37 PM
26. Vance stressed that the letters were not part of a vote-suppression effort, and therefore Sotelo’s letters, with their false declarations made “under penalty of perjury,” were not illegal. “If she had been wrong on purpose, that would be perjury,” Vance said. “But we made an error.”

ACTUAL LAW:
RCW 9A.72.080
Statement of what one does not know to be true.
Every unqualified statement of that which one does not know to be true is equivalent to a statement of that which he knows to be false.
[1975 1st ex.s. c 260 § 9A.72.080.]


Perjury in the First Degree in Washington is a Class B Felony punishable by imprisonment for up to ten years and a fine of up to twenty thousand dollars. Several voters should be filing criminal complaints here. It would seem to be an open and shut case.


Posted by: Perdita Durango on November 4, 2005 08:37 PM
27. Chris Vance, etal;...

I am just so damn happy to see you guys doing SOMETHING! ANYTHING with this election mess..YES!

I'm not going to beat you down for the errors. Time was short - Ron Sims and Dean Logan made sure of that by witholding the information you requested until the last minute. I wouldn't doubt it if those 140 residences were mistakenly zoned in King County database as *business*...We all know how KC, under Ron Sims, can't keep anything straight. Probably changed zoning as a kickback for hosting his last campaign fund raiser...(Ok - I really don't know how these residences are zoned or how they got on the list of mail box voters..but the problem is - anything is possible under Sims...)

I'm just so proud of the Republican party for stepping up and actually fighting againt this election crap!

Thank you! And I hope to see more of it!

Posted by: Deborah on November 4, 2005 10:11 PM
28. Deborah said, I'm just so proud of the Republican party for stepping up and actually fighting againt this election crap!

Yeah, darn elections. So inconvenient aren't they.

Posted by: Daniel K on November 4, 2005 11:06 PM
29. OK Alphie,

How about ranting about the incompetence of KCRE over a what was it 1% varience in the election (actually I think it was less)an then shrugging off their screwup of 7% on the very serious issue of challanging citizens right to vote.

Posted by: John on November 4, 2005 11:37 PM
30. Another way to put perspective on the 7% error - if the same error rate had happened with regard to the primary vote of somewhere between 246,031 and 245,641 absentee ballots cast, we should see a discrepancy of about 17,000 votes instead of 390.

Posted by: ChrisB on November 4, 2005 11:58 PM
31. Anyone else notice how the trolls were silent as Stefan reported this stuff all week, and then all the sudden there's a rush on SP.

Someone did a good job of getting the talking points out to the trolls.

Posted by: Jeff B. on November 5, 2005 12:05 AM
32. Unfortunately for Irons, this is one that backfired. The KCGOP did this just before the election for maximum impact to remind people about elections screw ups. But the story is now the GOP challenging qualified voters. This will make the GOP look like its trying to intimidate legal voters. Not going to help.

Posted by: Wayne on November 5, 2005 01:34 AM
33. Interesting how you were so eager to label the blogs as "lunatic fringe" when this story first broke. Then, when much of the story proved true, you just move on to other things.

Yes, I see that you did the obligatory mea culpa about the "mistake" but you never have admitted that the "lunatic lefty blogs" got it substantially correct. Your big thing then seems to be that one person who reacted to having their registration challenged was incorrect on the burden of proof.

Wow! One person got it wrong. That sure proves the left is lunatic.

And, by the way, your hero Repuglicans have an error margin around 7% for this challenge manuever. Good work! Not!

Posted by: Steve on November 5, 2005 07:30 AM
34. The story's above the fold in the Seattle Times (and still no article about Shark's "lawsuit")

The formula of the day

Irons/GOP + 1900 - 140 = Sims Wins!

What's up Alpha - your posts keep getting shorter. With any luck, you're spending all your time packing up your stuff to move to a conservative paradise - Utah? Idaho? Maybe Alabama? Toodles.

Posted by: Claire on November 5, 2005 08:09 AM
35. I really like the comment by Larry Phillips that he "Wants Dean logan to keep track of all of the expenses incurred by the Elections Department in filing the challenges". Typical Lawyer. He wants to punish anyone for looking into or doubting the integrity of the elections system that favors his party. I guess the converse must be true as well. How much money has been "wasted" at KCE clearing the voter rolls of Duplicate Voters, Dead People, Felons, People Not registered, Finding Votes, not counted the first,second or third counts. Do we send the bill to Mr. Phillips because all of these errors, numbering in the thousands, happened under his watch?. He and Ron Sims will gladly pay the bill whatever it could amount to because there "mistakes" are covered by KC taxpayer dollars. Of course Sims could have his crack turnaround team have a look at the situation, if you read their website their personnel developement skills and coaching expertise will come in real handy. None of this will ever be a "problem" until Sims loses.

Posted by: Roscoe on November 5, 2005 08:30 AM
36. claire, "Brevity is the soul of wit" - W Shakespeare

Or would you prefer, "Much wisdom often goes with brevity of speech" - Sophocles

Either way, I say simply that which is necessary to get my point across. Tis a pity that you cannot. I see that your math skills are still, er, creative. Reminds me of a liberal teacher who tried to tell us that 2 + 2 = 5 (for large factors of 2). He was an idiot, and so are you.

But I like you in spite of your lunacy (perhaps because you're hot for me). Don't go changing, just to please me ;'}

No, Washington is my home. I intend to stay and fight to return you and your ilk to the social irrelevancy that you see elsewhere in America. Now regale us with another hearty tale of the big bad Rove!

Posted by: alphabet soup on November 5, 2005 09:08 AM
37. Of course, by "lunatic fringe", Stefan means anybody who disagrees with him.

Still, in defense of Stefan, it's not his job to post on stories that damage the Republican agenda... that's my job. Just like I tend not to dwell on stories that damage Democrats... that's Stefan's job.

You righties don't come here looking for the unfiltered truth, do you? That would be silly. You come here looking to be told what you want to hear.

You all need to keep remembering to put us bloggers in context.

Posted by: Goldy on November 5, 2005 09:59 AM
38. goldy, you are the essence of irrelevance. If you could read, you would plainly see that there are no blinders over our eyes regarding the foibles of politicos, both left and right.

And yes, I always keep buggerers like you in context....as a matter of fact, I flushed a bit of you this morning...

Posted by: alphabet soup on November 5, 2005 10:06 AM
39. I see four problems with the left's gloating in this situation.

1. When the right points out problems that directly impact a statewide election, they are simply whiners and complainers who are wasting the time of the public offcials. However, when the left points out a factual error of the right, it is newsworthy and the "breaking of an important story." And you call us hypocrits.

2. The trolls always seem to say that people on this blog are just here to effectivly validate their own opinions when in fact, even in this very thread, some of the harshes critics of this mistake were from loyal contributers to this site. No, when the right screws up, Soundpolitics has no qualm in reporting and discussing it. I have yet to see one lefty do the same. Hypocrisy again.

3. The left really needs to gain a perspective. The issue here is a challenge of registration NOT the denial of registrations. The challenge is basically saying that these seem to be wrong and should be investigated and removed if appropraite. Note that the Republicans do not have the authority to disenfranchise anybody in this process so your claims are hyperbolic claptrap. However, the democratic machine in King County ACTUALLY disenfranchised voters because THEIR mistakes allowed ILLEGAL voters to cast votes which, in effect, canceled out the votes of legitimate voters. I am still waiting for ANY troll to admit that salient fact. Hypocrisy to highest degree.

4. The Republicans admitted that they erred on those 140 and thus removed them from their list. Have the democrats admited thier errors and removed THEM form the list? I think not. Hypocrisy again.

The left so loves to beleive they are high and mighty and without fault, but they only fool themselves. Your extreme partisanship prevents you from admitting error and thus correcting mistakes. You attack others rahter than fix your mistakes so that you can make the other guys out to be worse when in fact it is just a smoke screen to deflect your own gross incompetence.

Democrats should feel shame for what their party and their vocal glee clubs have become. about 8 years ago I was very balanced on my voting tickets between the two parties, now I find it very hard mark anyone with a D next to their name. Put some integrity back into your party, and you might gain a few more moderates to your camp.

Posted by: Eyago on November 5, 2005 10:49 AM
40. Loonie left hysteria mill indeed. Declare the fact that lunatic fringe blogs spread false and unsubstantiated rumors and that lunatic fringe crawls out from under every yard object and prove it. This is so much fun!!

The GOP rescinds 140 challenges that were made, admitting they were made in error and that somehow becomes proof of GOP dishonesty or thuggery. This is why I find liberals so amusing. They can turn gold into a turd and then proudly shine their shoes with a turd calling it shinola, all the while keeping a straight face. Stinky, stinky.

Swatter insists the GOP does a “driveby survey or windshield survey.” Clever. What are you Swatter a crip or a blood?

Ivan, proof of what moron, that admitting to a mistake somehow equals dishonesty? Get a life.

John, margins are utterly irrelevant to this issue and sensible people know it. The point is that whatever margin of error you discuss, the GOP and Vance told the truth, where King County Elections officials openly lied. Spinning that into a conspiracy is the shameless dishonesty that insists on ignoring the facts in favor of sensation that is endemic with liberals. No one attacked the Stranger; it perverts itself all on its own. You do the GOP a great service when you call this event one that demonstrates your liberal view of GOP hypocrisy. By your standard, admitting a mistake amounts to depravity. No wonder you guys vote for the style of Sims, Murray, Gregoire.

Big Sky Dem, go back to sheep, they are more your speed. Anyone dim witted enough to buy into the idea that this amounts to suppressing voter turnout is worthy only of sub human a$$ociation.

Joanne, “Republicans attempt to . . . steal an election by disenfranchising thousands of voters in Seattle?” Amazing. Do you talk to your children with that mentality?

Durango, lying is a Class B Felony? How is admitting that you made a mistake by telling the truth a lie exactly? You should be the King County Prosecutor; everyone honest within your jurisdiction would be in jail.

Steve, it is a lunatic fringe that peremptorily characterizes a mistake as a conspiracy without any support for their characterization. No one here admitted that the "lunatic lefty blogs" got it substantially correct” because they got it completely wrong when they spun facts into lunacy. Yes Steve, the very fact that one person made a mistake, admitted to it, and the "lunatic lefty blogs" perverted it into something entirely unsupportable does prove that the left is lunatic and you along with them for buying into it.

Claire cites the Seattle Times as an authority for anything. Usual clarity there huh Claire?

Goldy, Stefan doesn’t need to point out to the "lunatic fringe" that they are lunatics, people like you come here and prove it.

The loonie left hysteria mill? They definitely came to visit Sound Politics today. Once again, proof positive that liberals will believe anything so long as there are no facts involved.

Thanks all.

Posted by: Amused by liberals on November 5, 2005 12:04 PM
41. Durango, lying is a Class B Felony? How is admitting that you made a mistake by telling the truth a lie exactly? You should be the King County Prosecutor; everyone honest within your jurisdiction would be in jail.

By signing an afidavit declaring under penalty of perjury under the laws of the State of Washington that she has personal knowledge and belief that the 140 (and counting) voters are not qualified to vote, your Republican tool has broken the law.

Everyone that makes these serious claims without actual knowledge is BREAKING THE LAW, and SHOULD be prosecuted to its fullest extent.

Posted by: Perdita Durango on November 5, 2005 03:46 PM
42. Perdito Durango,

Ahh yes, what a dilemma; indeed I should have thought of that. Sheer genius on your part there Durango.
But what about the part where you must establish that a mistake was a lie.
This subtle distinction between a lie and a mistake seems kinda important doesn't it? Or are lies and mistakes both the same to you?
Mens rea or criminal intent is not easily established legally, and it's meaning is liberally assumed by people like you who don't care about the truth or the facts.

While your characterization of the instant facts is incorrect and inapt, nevertheless, here is the problem (please try to focus):

If I were to tell you (now) that you are a smart person, it would be a lie, because you have clearly shown me through your comments that you are not. Therefore, because I know that smart persons are not ding-dongs like you, and because I know now while saying you are a smart person that you are in fact actually a ding-dong, since someone can establish these facts, they could say I am lying.

On the other hand, if I say that despite your being a ding-dong, I know for sure that you are not also a child molester, and later it came out that you rape children, that would be a mistake on my part, but not necessarily a lie. It would only be a lie rather than a mistake, if I knew it at the time. You see Durango, I have no way of knowing for sure that you are not a child molester, so while my saying that Perdito Durango is not a child molester may be a foolish and possibly mistaken assumption on my part, it is not a lie. Further, I don't have to know for certain that you are not a child molester, if the knowledge I do possess supports the beliefs I assert. Only to the best of my knowledge at the time. If I use due diligence and find out that the facts contradict my earlier knowledge, and openly admit that I was mistaken, am I lying?

Now let's see, what if I signed an affidavit under oath that I didn’t see you rape any children, and believed that you probably weren't a child molester, would that be a lie? Of course not, again it would be foolish (considering your other lacking capacities) to do such a thing unless of course I could prove you were not one, but no prosecutor would ever try to use this to establish that I lied. One that does, will have a real bad time proving it.

If Lori Sotelo knew that the information she swore to was false when she swore to it, she is guilty and she should be prosecuted. However, when you said that, “Several voters should be filing criminal complaints here. It would seem to be an open and shut case,” you left no room for the probability that this was simply a mistake as Vance said it was. You jumped to the same conclusion others do when they assume that you are a probably child molester.

By the way, here is where Scooter Libby will probably be acquitted. Don't worry though; I won't make either mistake in your case.

You guys are so much fun! Thanks.

Posted by: Amused by liberals on November 5, 2005 05:03 PM
43. Amused,

I see that you are still posting from your reality-proof bubble. Don't you get it? As will be reflected in results of next week's election, the majority of people in King County are smart enough tell the difference between the margin of error in an election and a crass and ham-fisted political stunt of the sort that the GOP pulled with their shotgun voter challenge. The majority of people in King County realize that there were over 800,000 votes cases last year and, despite Shark and Chris Vance's attempts to hype the numbers, the number of votes that allegedly were improperly counted is miniscule. The majority of people are also smart enough to realize that a stunt like the one the GOP just pulled shows that the GOP is a party without any ideas that will stoop to any low to attract attention. The bottom line is that the GOP and its ideas and tactics are not welcome by the majority of voters in King County. That may go a long way to explaining why the standard of living and quality of life in King County is vastly superior to other parts of this state and the country.

PS- I was not relying on the Times as any sort of source, rather, I was pointing out the cat was out of the bag and the news of the GOP misdeeds was being widely distributed - to many potential voters I would assume.

Posted by: Claire on November 5, 2005 05:31 PM
44. Claire,

Do you always think in terms of simplistic generalized superficialities? Why should anyone care about what you say? Everyone--but you--knows that the election last year was very, very, close and the number of votes that were improperly counted was enough to easily have elected Rossi rather than Gregoire. Why not say something truthful, substantive, and interesting for a change. You're getting boring.

You say ”The majority of people are also smart enough to realize that a stunt like the one the GOP just pulled shows that the GOP is a party without any ideas that will stoop to any low to attract attention.” What stunt is that Claire, telling the embarrassing truth that they made a mistake? You are truly one of the dumbest ding-dongs around—you must be a Seattle school teacher.

I am sure glad you are not on my side of the debate.

Thanks for the entertainment.

Posted by: Amused by dumb liberals on November 5, 2005 06:11 PM
45. claire is proving to be quite the liberal projectionist! Well, no one accused her of being smart ;'}

Posted by: alphabet soup on November 5, 2005 09:58 PM
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