The Seattle Post-Intelligencer posted online earlier today an editorial quoting an e-mail they received from King County Council Member and Republican candidate for King County Executive David Irons. Irons wants to make it crystal clear where he stands on Initiative 912, to roll back the 9.5-cent-per-gallon increase in the state gas tax, approved last spring by the legislature.
Republican King County executive candidate David Irons was quick to respond to a recent Post-Intelligencer editorial calling on elected officials in his party to take a firm public stance on Initiative 912, which would repeal the recent gas-tax increase at the cost of billions of dollars in highway work and thousands of jobs."After reading your paper's editorial," Irons e-mailed us, "I obviously have not succeeded in reaching everyone on the importance of defeating I-912. Transportation is a cornerstone of my campaign and passing I-912 would be a tragedy to our community."
In a subsequent telephone interview, Irons reiterated that he has been "consistent" on the issue. "I oppose I-912, for a litany of reasons," said Irons. He also says he's encountering more people who understand the negative implications of the initiative.
I applaud Irons for having the guts to speak out. He should go a bit further and talk more openly about the "litany of reasons" and his future vision on transportation for the region. In a brief RoboCall I and other Rs got from Irons yesterday, he said he supports a "modest" amount of added lane miles, and quickly moved on to other topics. That begs some questions, but not ones mission critical to a Nov. 8 win. For now, his stance on I-912 carries no political risks, and actually helps his campaign. Here's why. 
Swing Dems in the 'burbs already sickened by the elections mismanagement on the watch of his opponent, Dem incumbent Ron Sims, need only a little push to come on over to Irons. This could be it. Meanwhile, how many Rs in King County are going to vote for Sims because they don't like Irons' views on I-912? About zero. In their view, Irons is still a vastly better choice than the guy who says, "...running for re-election is not about what you have done in office, but what you will do in your next term."
Now, to the substance hinted at by Irons' I-912 comments, not just the politics. As I've said here recently, I think the real tragedy would not be so much if I-912 backers win - they probably will - but if key leaders of the I-912 effort in Central Puget Sound win AND THEN still fail to help shape a better alternative plan for the region.
The P-I today also featured a six-part report on issues related to I-912, based on interviews with two supporters of the raised gas tax, and two opponents.
Take a look at it all, especially at the section on congestion. The pro-gas tax-hike interviewees make the case that you can never have enough added lanes, they just fill up again. They implicity are arguing for transit. One thing transit opponents say, though not in the P-I congestion segment, is that the percentage of daily regional commutes here occuring via transit keeps dropping. But if so, that's a function of poor transit options. With the three-county population projected to grow from 3 million today to 4 million by 2020 and 5 million by 2050, now's the time to get started not only on transit, but water and aviation capacity beyond what's currently planned, as well.
What if we actually did transit right? For instance, build east-west rail going right down the middle of the rebuilt 520 bridge, connecting Seattle across Lake Washington to Microsoft, with good Eastside bus connections on north-south arterials for other commuters, and re-deployment of various employers' shuttle vans to the train stops. Just one wacky idea of mine: and you'd need a larger, integrated system plan, of course. But such conversations need to be on the front burner after Nov. 8., no matter what the outcome on I-912.
Posted by Matt Rosenberg at October 12, 2005 10:15 PM | Email ThisCan't we just have another go at the monorail with a broader vision and a board that is experienced? Pretty please?
Posted by: bmvaughn on October 12, 2005 11:08 PMThe sham here is the idea that the only place to go for money is a gas tax, making it nearly the highest in the nation. There is plenty of money in the general budget already, too much of which is wasted.
I support light rail or even monorail if it had been set up with the same funding mixture that light rail has. So, it's not just anti-transit people that oppose the gas tax hike.
Posted by: BananaLand(aka Iguana) on October 13, 2005 12:00 AMMy congestion problem is here in the Olympia area, on I-5 and it's on I-5 going to Seattle where GP lanes definitely needs to ease congestion. I have driven to Sea Tac many times in 50 minutes, yet one Monday morning it took me 2 1/2 hours and last Monday it took 2 hours, 15 minutes to get to Seattle. It is miserable trying to get into Seattle on I-5. I saw hundreds of cars and even a motorcycle in the HOV lane with single occupants. But the HOV lane was still faster, if it was a GP lane, everyone's commute would have been much faster, instead of the select few who had more than one occupant and law breakers.
The real question for Irons is does he want a tunnel and does he want lane capacity on 520? Seattle does NOT need a monorail and light rail. It needs one integrated system of different trans options. The BART system in San Franciso has rail in tunnels under the bay, rail in the air and rail on streets......They all are one system, paid with the same bucks.
Posted by: sgmmac on October 13, 2005 04:08 AMI-912 needs to pass if for no other reason than to let the legislature know the people are still in charge and we're tired of their overuse of the emergency clause to kill the right of referendum.
By his stand Mr Irons allies himself with all the other Washington State politicians that feel they know better than us ill informed voters.
So while he's already busy gathering up all those "Swing Dems in the 'burbs" he seems to forget there are plenty of swing Reps in the 'burbs too. No we don't swing between Rep and Dem, we swing between Rep and not voting at all, better hope you calculated it right Mr Irons. You won't even need a substantial portion of your base now because you will be capturing all those "Swing Dems".
There are probably a lot of us whose only reason for voting this Nov. is to vote yes on I-912, I am not going to feel too disposed toward voting for Mr Irons after he has labeled my yes vote a tragedy.
And if he is going to win he will have to win big, if it's close obviously he will loose, after all this is still a King County where Sims cronies count the votes.
Posted by: Mark on October 13, 2005 05:24 AMFirst off, you need to perform a little mental modeling in your head. HOV lanes are less crowded. Why? It is because the volume (number of vehicles eligible) flowing through the lanes is less than the capacity of the lane. Therefore, they can flow at a rate near the speed limit. GP lanes, however, have more capacity than the lanes can handle at certain choke points along the highway. To travel at a rate close to the speed limit means each car should have four (to six) car lengths of room on the highway. Do the mental math and you begin to see that at the choke points, this is not the case. So, the solution isn't converting HOV lanes to GP. You still will have a greater flow than the choke points can handle even with the extra lane.
It should be noted that adding more buses on the highway to take up HOV lane space doesn't necessarily reduce the congestion fully. The reason is they are still taking up the same path and have to travel through the same choke points.
So, what is the key to resolving congestion. The key is building different and parallel paths to reduce the volume through the choke points. This means alternative paths like light rail or full rail that do not use the same path. It also means building up other parallel highways and roads to give people more alternative paths. It doesn't mean adding rail to an existing chokepoint (520 bridge). For cross-water transportation, it means adding ferry service (most likely, passenger only).
Where the region needs to concentrate its money is in creating alternative paths and not putting more volume on the same paths.
Cheers,
TC
Come on, King County and David Irons, show some leadership!
Posted by: JC Bob on October 13, 2005 06:34 AMInitiative signitures, no matter how many, do not show the "will of the people". That is like saying we have approved the current monorail "plan" 4 times - we haven't.
"I-912 needs to pass if for no other reason than to let the legislature know the people are still in charge and we're tired of their overuse of the emergency clause to kill the right of referendum."
Maybe we should have done something to change the rules about "emergencies"...
Maybe it is time we start electing the right people.
Carlson, et al. are trying to make 912 a referendum on Christine Gregoire - it is not. We are robbing real transportation dollars by voting for this initiative. All one must do is look around and see that work IS taking place and it is happening everywhere. This is not Sound Transit and it is not the monorail. This IS money for roads.
Honestly, ask yourself - what does 9 cents a gallon really mean? $1.30 on a tank of gas? c'mon! There are so many more unfair taxes (property taxs, "sin" taxes) that we should be going after.
Gas tax is the fairest tax of all...
Posted by: No912 on October 13, 2005 06:39 AM
My BS meter is pegged. What various politicians and special interest groups say is of no interest to me at all; I'm much more interested in what they do. If the rhetoric doesn't fit the actions then I know someone isn't being honest.
I've heard, "We all know we can't build our way out of gridlock." This would have credibility if I'd seen an honest effort to do so, that failed. I've been hearing about HOV lanes instead for the last 25 years.
Those who support the latest gas tax increase say that we have to spend to improve roads. The program I see will spend $8B with no significant capacity increase. In fact, the largest portion will go to a project to beautify the Seattle waterfront and fix a seawall that Seattle is responsible for.
If I start with the program and work toward the rhetoric, I see a great disconnect. No one has made a case that we can't add GP lanes. McDonald talks as though it's a settled issue. The issue is the special interest groups that say we will get what we want or we will sue to stop.
If the "Businessmen" who advocate no on I-912 were spending their comnapny's money in this manner, they would be swiftly fired.
David Irons could do more good instead of going against I-912 is to start pounding on Transportation fixes that have been researched long ago. Take those good ideas and pound them against the Mass Transit crowd. Why does over 50% of my gas tax go to Mass Transit ideas that only help 3 or 4% of the population. And that population does not pay any gas tax.
Talk about the drain of resources because of poor management decisions. If the Republicans could get behind some of the projects to help congestion instead of mudding the waters over and over again with the same statements and the Seattle Koolaid drinkers.
We need leadership that will start fixing the problems not leadership that does not standup for the people and their needs. A decade of mismanagement can not be fixed by bandages. Their policies need to be attacked. Dreams have already cause costs for road construction to be one of the highests in the nation per mile. OVer a billion dollars for 1.9 miles of road to nearly 5 billion dollars if they build the tunnel.
In North Dakota which has rolling hills and no mountains to speak up it is costing them around $200 million dollars for a Hundred miles of 2 lane highway. That includes the enviroment studies because it does affect Duck habitat. Posted by: David Anfinrud on October 13, 2005 06:58 AM
When the people speak- listen! Posted by: Mike P on October 13, 2005 07:01 AM
We also have two diametrically opposed visions of how our governmental processes should work. The gas tax is a minor issue, compared to the process that created it. IMO we have to address the process first. That may require a few more initiatives.
Is there any candidate we argree with 100%.
Irons is more a anti-Sims, anti-status quo vote, than a vote for Irons.
King Co. needs a shift in direction. Irons is a start.
I be happy with substantive reforms with KCE. And some property tax relief. While I'd love a "Red" King Co. it's not going to happen any time soon. And a hard right candidate won't have a chance. A RINO is better than Sims.
Better will be an improvement from what we have now.
Politics of the Possible.
Posted by: JCM on October 13, 2005 07:20 AMBut I don't think that he can assume that no one will. On Kirby's show this morning, they had a couple of call-ins that are voting for Sims instead because of this (if they were telling the truth).
However, what could be more deadly to Irons is not that people won't vote for him -- but they might get unexcited enough to stop giving him money. You don't get out and campaign in the same way, or support in the same way the candidate you are voting for with your nose plugged of as the one you are excited about.
Anyone out there that has any doubts can rest assured, if I-912 passes, the sky will NOT fall.
This is from the Colfax Rotary Bulletin:
"Jerry Lindsey from the WA Department of Transportation was the guest of Don Cox this week. He filled us in on the schedule for Highway 270, the Moscow Pullman 4 lane project. He said it will begin next spring and will take 2 seasons to complete. It had actually been scheduled for 1992 and 1998 but had never received funding. Because of the preliminary work and right of way purchases, it will definitely be completed. Since the project had first been proposed, there have been zoning changes that consequently changed the price for the right of way land. In addition it was determined that there were fish in the adjacent creek and that protection of their habitat presented additional issues. These issues have contributed to the total budget estimate being $28.5 million. If the initiative on the ballot to roll back the gas tax passes, this will not effect the project."
Posted by: cc on October 13, 2005 07:38 AMYa get what ya pay for!
Posted by: Libertarian on October 13, 2005 07:45 AMFor instance, could I remove the seat belts from all other seats in my car except the driver seat which would render my normally 5-seater a single occupant vehicle and thus use the HOV lanes? Seems like a logical next step, and if nothing else, you'll get a chuckle out of the judge.
Posted by: bmvaughn on October 13, 2005 08:22 AMMany, if not most, supporters of I-912 understand that something must be done with the viaduct and other important road projects, we just disagree with the "bottomless slush fund" method of financing them. If I-912 passes, and David Irons wins, I would expect him to present (or otherwise support) a sensible package for these projects, which voters would then approve.
In an ideal world...but this is King County, and Dean Logan is still in office only to win re-election for Sims and torpedo causes like I-912.
So go ahead, vote for some looser third party candidate (yeah, that one wearing camo)...but remember that every vote cast for a third party candidate is really a vote FOR Ron Sims, so don't whine when you get stuck with Comrad Sims again. Shut up and accept 9 cent gas tax, the as yet unimposed matching transportation tax, fewer and fewer property rights, more taxes, continuation of crooked elections, more taxes, additional pie in the sky public transportation projects, more taxes, and even fewer county police officers.
Then pray you don't have to go to downtown Seattle any time in the next decade, because it will be torn up for YEARS while they build the most expensive, over budget, tunnel-seawall project in the history of the world. And when (or if) it gets finished, it will not reduce congestion one iota.
As we saw in the governors race, even a few votes can make a difference. I believe that David Irons would be willing to find common ground between his desire for safe and adequate roads, and the voters wishes for responsible spending. Don't get discouraged now and waste your vote!
Posted by: dl on October 13, 2005 08:38 AMWhen Irons becomes exec, he will have a lot of pull in Olympia on funding. It will much more difficult for the Queen and her drones to ignore a County Exec from the largest county than David Iron, Commissioner.
He has to play the game.
But I am voting for 912 on pure ideological grounds- this was not an emergency. It is more crucial to rein in these incompetent politicians and their abuse of power than a quick, but ineffective fix. We do need a lot of money put into our roads, though; it can be done in a better way after 912 passes.
Posted by: baffles on October 13, 2005 08:52 AMTaxpayers don't mind paying for roads. Taxpayers are taking up arms on the lack of prioritization, hijacking of funds, lack of trustworthy audits, special interests that have run rampant in Olympia for the past decade. It so happens that the gas tax is the target.
In essence- Gregoire is at the throne of this mess. A decent Governor would have said- spend NOTHING nor bring me any bill to sign until you solve transportation w/out a tax like I promised the voters.
Posted by: Andy on October 13, 2005 08:56 AMThose of us against the gas tax are tired of the smoke and mirrors transportation fixes that overpromise, underdeliver, and cost 10 times more than originally stated due to "unexpected cost overruns". Anyone who thinks the gas tax is going to fully fund any transportation project should go back and read the fine print, especially the part where the revenues can go into the black hole known as the general fund after a few years. The gas tax is not permanently dedicated to transportation issues, so you can almost hear the cry for more tax increases to fund transporation projects down the road. This is why a record number of voters have signed 912 and why it is going to pass by a huge margin. We need accountability first, then we can discuss tax increases!
Posted by: Burdabee on October 13, 2005 08:59 AMhttp://gatermannt.homeip.net/gallery/albums/CTA/RR000000103_CTA_BlueLine_I90.jpg
Posted by: Ryan on October 13, 2005 09:03 AM
Irons should bit right in with the tax and spend mindset in Olympia.
912 is just the tip of the iceberg of issues in this state.
If we want to build roads or anything else in Washington, we need to remove the rule making authority in the various departments. DOE, DNR, AQMD and every other D in power.
Press you legislators to strip these appointed departments of anything other than advisory authority. They base their rules on junk science, they restrict property owners to the point they can't mow their grass or add fertilizer without a hearing and the blessings of the state.
Make the Governor accountable for their appointments and take this state out of their hands. Simplyfy and make fair the permitting process.
If you want to see an immediate 9% reduction in construction costs, make the state exempt from paying sales tax on construction items such as concrete and asphalt and every thing else needed to build a road.
There are so many things wrong in Olymia they cant all be named in this short forum. It will take some common sense to get the things done we need, but wasting money on environmental impact statements and handing Olympia billions of dollars is just like saying that we trust you to do it right when we have evidence to the contrary.
Yes on 912, no on Sims,and maybe on Irons.
Posted by: Jim L on October 13, 2005 09:12 AM
I'll presume (for the moment) that he/she/it is asking in earnest, and not just another one of the trollish ones....
The answer (as predicted) is no one.
So, what's your point?
Hand in hand with that answer has to be the recognition that many communities have reacted responsibly to the never ending need to keep pace with transportation needs. Most responsible people realize that the days of empty ribbons of blacktop, beckoning us into the setting sun are behind us. That does not mean that we can't act responsibly and intelligently to ease the obvious traffic woes that have been perpetrated onto us by leftist social(ist) engineers!
Washington state has deliberately stuck its head......well, let's just say stuck its head in the sand on this issue. We have (mis)spent billions of transportation dollars on mass transit and what do we have to show for it? A net loss of ridership! Meanwhile, we haven't added lane-miles in years (unless you want to count HOV lanes, in which case you are an idiot!) despite the desperate pleas from its citizens and several experts.
David Irons may be trying to dance between the raindrops on this issue (I-912 specifically and transportation in general), but, if I understand his statement correctly, he is just plain wrong!
Posted by: alphabet soup on October 13, 2005 09:17 AMReporterward...tired of this looser, stupid retoric. Pro gas tax does not have a plan either, that's the problem. Just an undefined goal utilizing undefined (yet endless) amounts of tax dollars.
Posted by: dl on October 13, 2005 09:27 AMAnd yes, Washington did until the late 60s when the enviros killed the I-90 connection. Concrete jungle they called it. Read "America the Raped" by Eugene Marine.
After that, all the talent, engineering that is, went into other branches than building roads.
Add the environmental policy act, and voila- you are behind the 8-ball and falling further behind all the time.
After the stagnation in the late 60s, we had capacity and really, it lasted through the mid-80s when the rapid growth occurred, but no planning occurred due to the enviros noted above and lack of talent.
Posted by: baffles on October 13, 2005 09:33 AMEverywhere you look, in every major metro area, traffic is a drag. Get over it. Learn to use alternatives to the single person vehicle.
Dump your Urban Assault Vehicles. Find a friend to ride with. Get off your dead asses and ride a bike.
That said, we need to maintain what we have. That's what the new gas tax does.
Just ask your man David Irons.
Duh.
Posted by: Road Hog on October 13, 2005 10:07 AMAs for Irons: considering where he's running, he couldn't do anything else. He needs to pull in moderate Democrats if he wants to win, and to do that he's going to need to toe the regional line on a few issues. Cut him some slack, eh; he's running for election in the most liberal region of the State.
Even with this stand, Irons is preferable to Sims by a long shot, and I will give you one compelling reason that is so: the King County Elections Department.
If Sims retains control of the Elections Department, distributed vote fraud will continue to make it more difficult for Republicans to win Statewide races. Conservatives should swallow their idealogical purity on this one and place a strategic vote.
Posted by: Nathan Azinger on October 13, 2005 10:09 AMI think you missed the point.
The current crowd in Olympia, the governor's mansion and in King County aren't going to solve traffic congestion. And whatever road projects do get completed, we'll be paying double, triple or quintiple the going rate.
Voting yes or no on 912 isn't going to change anything. Other than waiting for Dino Rossi to be re-elected in 2008, 912 supporters don't have any other plans to relieve congestion either. At least none that are reaching the general state population.
So somehow, we need to stop distracting ourselves on getting initiatives passed and instead get legislators into office who are grownup enough to widen roads, remove HOV lanes, foster a robust economic client in the state, etc. etc.
Why don't you stop telling people what to do?
Posted by: jimg on October 13, 2005 10:38 AMThanks for playing.....
Posted by: alphabet soup on October 13, 2005 11:08 AMI used to live (and drive) in Minneapolis. Is the traffic situation better than what we have here? Yes. BUT, it still has it's congestion, backups and other traffic related problems/issues.
I would agree with dl that Minneapolis (and many other metro areas) have constantly worked intelligently to keep pace with growing congestion. Definitely not the case here.
Reporterward, the underlying issue is NOT who has the best transportation plan. This initiative is a 'shot across the bow' of that 'current crowd in Olympia' for them to realize where their money comes from and who they are responsible to. What needs to happen is the 'follow-through' of voting out those who fail to listen.
Posted by: dad4 on October 13, 2005 11:08 AMYou guys are actually doing something about it.
Posted by: Road Hog on October 13, 2005 11:16 AMI-912 is short sighted, does not solve anything, and starves the state of much needed funds to fix roads and bridges and expand capacity.
I-912 is simply a very bad anti-tax initiative, and Washingtonians are gradually being educated to that fact, and Republican opposition to it is helping spread the word that people need to vote "no" on I-912.
It is also showing just how out of touch the Republican party leadership that has endorsed I-912 is with the financial and transportation infrastructure realities of this state.
Posted by: Daniel K on October 13, 2005 11:42 AMPerhaps if you spoke about something with which you're a bit more familiar.....So just what is the current fashion trends for bong pipes this season? ;'}
Posted by: alphabet soup on October 13, 2005 11:47 AM If your reading this comment section you
had better listen carefully.This was a
dumb move.Trying to get robotcrats in the city
of seattle to support Irons is a waste of
time.It simply wont work what you need to do
is work on the citzens on the south side
of King county before its to late.
Most of the people out there are ticked
off.They believe were screwed in 9th district
race.Since Reagan Dunn doesn't give a hoot
about those people Mr Irons needs to get out
there and start mending fences.
It is this group of people that will cost
David Irons the election not the robotcrats
in the city of seattle they were never going
to vote for him anyway.
Irons is one of their guys, and anything that will extract taxpayer dollars to increase road capacity and allow more development is going to be supported by Irons and the builder-owned Republicans across the state.
I'm going to hold my nose and vote for Irons anyway, because I want my vote to count again, and Sims has climbed so far into bed with the builders himself, I doubt Irons could really make things any worse.
I will consider it a vote for one of two equally worthless politicians, but one of them with the backing of a party that can restore our fundamental election processes to something credible, and remove the cancellation of my vote by invalid ballots.
Posted by: Mike on October 13, 2005 11:56 AMWhere do you get "most people" from? Last I checked, Dunn won a solid majority in the primary. "Many people" I could maybe accept, though I'm not anywhere near convinced. "Most people" is clearly hyperbole.
Posted by: Nathan Azinger on October 13, 2005 12:08 PMThe issue with giving up traffic lanes on 520 is fortunately not the bridge. The new bridge is going to be designed with pontoons to support additional lanes for BRT or rail later. The design actually looks, well rather tacky to be honest due to this. But I guess not every bridge can be pleasing to the eye and be cost effective.
I think the larger problem is where do you put these right of ways after you get off the bridge. We all know that rich communities create problems in massive infrastructure projects, if you've been around since I-90 we all remember the cost overruns largely caused by Mercer Island and massive project changes designed to keep them happy, such as the two largely wasted lanes.
Posted by: Chokai on October 13, 2005 12:10 PMGranted the general election works a bit differently than the primary, but it's clear that Irons can't win with only the Republican base. He's going to have to appeal to Independents, and yes to moderate Democrats if he wants to have a shot here.
Posted by: Nathan Azinger on October 13, 2005 12:23 PM I am not talking about the 9th district as whole
I was refering to the south side of king county
Where the majority of the support went to Steve
Hammond among republicans and democrats.Reagan
Dunn got very little of the support out there.
Since Reagan Dunn has made no effort to try and
make peace with these people David Irons has
to.Because if he doesn't most of them will sit
out the election.For they don't think they
have voice anymore.David Irons campaign doesn't
seem to realize that these people are critical
to him winning.
Come on - lighten up, you kool aid drinking conservatives - stop and think about this, or you are being as stupid as a knee-jerk liberal wack-job if this sways your vote for Irons and if you vote for Sims - you might as well be a Democrat from now on. The end result is that you will serve to get Sims elected again by a slim margin if you don't bother to vote here. I-912 is going to pass - Irons or no Irons. So vote for someone you will agree with 65-75% of the time as opposed to the current one who you would agree with
Posted by: KS on October 13, 2005 02:04 PMI-912 WILL passs despite all the in-kind contributions from the Seattle PI and Times for the Gas Tax Gang.
Keep your eye on the ball folks.
Can we lay off griping about Reagan Dunn for once. I'm getting kind of tired of all the garbage you and others have been spreading about him. The primary is over, your guy, who was also a good candidate, lost. Now how about we get back on topic and figure out a way for Irons to sneak past Sims this fall.
Posted by: Reporterward on October 13, 2005 03:50 PM
The overlying issue IS transportation and how to get the most people from point A to point B as safely and economically as possible.
Shots across the bow ultimately don't work in the long run. You have to give people in the state (the majority of whom unfortunately don't read SoundPolitics yet) something to vote for, not just to be against this or that.
I know that I-912 is going to pass even though I'm not voting for it. And when it does pass, we'll still be in the same boat because the current crop of legislators in office will turn right around and raise gas taxes again.
I wish there was a third choice on the ballot which dumps the current gas tax all into widening and straightening roads, removing HOV lanes, stripping funds away from Sound Transit (which won't be used) to use on buses and road infrastructure, etc.
It's not going to happen, but a guy can dream. Posted by: Reporterward on October 13, 2005 04:01 PM
If you had bothered to fully read what I
said you would know I wasn't griping about
Reagan Dunn.The fact is I could care less
For umpteenth time I don't live in the 9th district.
I was trying to tell the Irons campaign that
ignoring the people on the south side would be a
mistake.
Someone needs to go out there and mend fences
with those people.From speaking to those people
Reagan Dunn has made no effort to do so.Because he
knows he doesn't need them to win.Otherwise I
don't care what he says or does!!
David Irons needs those people to have
a chance at winning the race.So he needs
to go out and meet with these people.
They are upset because they think they got
screwed in the primary and don't have a
voice to speak for them anymore.
If Irons doesn't he risks the strong
possibilty of most of the people on
the south side sitting the election
out. Otherwise I don't care about
Reagan Dunn.I hope you get it now.
You mentioned "The new bridge is going to be designed with pontoons to support additional lanes for BRT or rail later."
Yes, just like the bus tunnel to accomodate rail lines "later".
What a bunch of squat. I bought this before, but not this time around.
Posted by: Ted Bundy on October 13, 2005 04:55 PMIf you encounter an obsticle, you can either try to change the obsticle or change your behavior to fit the situation.
Think about the way you look at the challenge: What is the problem? Too many cars or too few roads?
You're not going to get new roads any time soon, no matter what transportation plan goes into effect. Face up to the facts. You are stuck with the existing infrastructure for a very long time.
But, you can reduce the number of cars on the road.
You can change your behavior tomorrow morning for little or no cost. In fact you can actually save money. You can improve your situation by adapting. That's what humans do best.
There is no one right solution for everyone. You have to come up with it yourself. The government isn't going to provide it for you.
You are either part of the problem or you are part of the solution.
So qiut your wining, take responsibility for your actions and solve your transportation problem yourself.
Get out a map. Look at bus routes and schedules. Figure out if you can take a bus part way. You can walk a couple of miles in ten minutes. Get a bike. Talk to friends and put together a commuting plan. Talk to your employers, see if you can go on a flex schedule.
There are a million and one opportunities for each of us to solve our own transportation problems in our own ways.
Okay.
I don't know how long you have lived in this state but let me lay some "learning" on you.
Our traffic infrastructure is essentially the same as it was thirty or forty years ago. However, our population has tripled in that time.
We have six million people living in this state.
We have 1.7 millionn living in King County.
There are 1,900 new people moving to King County every month.
Guess what? We all can't fit in downtown Seattle or within a ten minute bike ride of where we work without all of us living in tenement buildings ten stories high.
So that means the majority of us have do something called commuting in order to get to our places of employ.
The reason why I asked you and your fellows whether you have lived in this state long is important (I was born here in 1976).
Because if you have lived here for any period of time you may have noticed a striking similarity between the roadways of today and say...the roadways which were in place when politicians like Scoop Jackson, Dixie Lee Ray and Dan Evans were in office. They're the exact same bloody width and have the exact same bloody carrying capacity.
Now why we are still cursed with the same infrastructure capacity which hasn't grown in thirty years is curious to me since the overall tax-base has grown significantly. We have a higher population who have higher paying jobs and who are being taxed at a higher rate. And since the government of Washington state's primary responsibility (other than providing educational facilities and emergency response personnel) is to provide a proper infrastructure for people to travel along one might think the folks in charge for the past twenty five years might have taken time to make sure our roadways were sufficient to handle our minor population increase.
However, since there hasn't been a grown up in office in this state over that period of time, we're stuck in this royal cluster...
So, in my opinion, we should either start improving our roadways so we can focus on more important issues. Or start sending out-of-staters (and I'm not sure if you fall in this group Road Hog, et al) back to where you all came from.
I favor the first option.
Hardly surprising from the usual suspects here.
Posted by: Daniel K on October 13, 2005 06:55 PMYou remember Al Rosellini?
I do.
Do you remember when 520 was a toll bridge?
I do.
Do you remember when I-405 first went in?
I do.
Do you remember when the old Mercer Island bridge had a big old bulge in the middle and someone would splat into it every couple of days?
I do.
Do you remember when I-90 ended at North Bend?
I do.
There has been a huge addition of infrastructure in both bridges and roads in Washington in the last forty years.
I know because I saw it happen. So don't hand me that neocon crap.
You live where you do because you choose to live where you do. If the traffic is a bitch, too bad. Learn to deal with it, figure out a way around it or move.
When I lived in Redmond, I used to ride my bicycle nineteen miles each way to the U of W every day because I preferred it to sitting in traffic. It took me about the same amount of time to ride as to drive.
I made that ride every day rain or shine for six years and I didn't whine about it.
You neocons are all the same. You look to the government to solve your personal problems.
You'd make a poor mountain climber, I can tell you that.
Posted by: Road Hog on October 13, 2005 07:26 PMHoggy's meander down memory lane (more like a rathole) shows us that it is possible to inhabit the planet without having any awareness of your surroundings.
Answers to Hoggy's ad hoc quiz:
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
BFD
"There has been a huge addition of infrastructure in both bridges and roads in Washington in the last forty years."
But Hoggy, virtually all of that occurred before 1965, which, if your math is better than your history is forty years ago.
Hoggy - take a real trip down memory lane: http://transit.metrokc.gov/am/history/history-1960.html
You'll quickly see that, although the actual deployment of lane-miles continued through the sixties, no new lane-miles have been planned since then.
Every transportation plan that included lane-miles has been derailed (no pun intended). When it comes to transit issues, you plainly do not know what the hell you're talking about (but please don't let that stop you!).
As to the rest of your rant...BWAAAAAAHAAAA! Whatta pantload!
"You look to the government to solve your personal problems" Spoken like a true "belly up to the trough" liberal!
No, Hoggy, I don't look to "the government" to solve anything. I look to the government to stay the hell outta my wallet!
"I made that ride every day rain or shine for six years and I didn't whine about it."
Whoopty-doo. I bet it was uphill both ways, right?
OK, you like riding your bicycle - cool. I like hobbies, too. I like shooting. Would you like to wager who would get across the floating bridge first - you & your bicycle, or me & my 7.62? ;'}
Posted by: alphabet soup on October 13, 2005 08:16 PMWhat a punk you are. I'm an old man and I'll wager I can still kick your punk ass.
Oh and I hate to burst your balloon, but I have had guns pointed at me before.
Posted by: Road Hog on October 13, 2005 08:20 PMI forgot Rosellini, my apologies there. Too bad he isn't running the show now.
And thanks for making my argument for me. That whole list of road projects you mentioned; guess what they have in common?
They were all finished thirty years ago.
So tell me why 405 is the same width it was twenty-five years ago? Tell me why 167 is the same width it was twenty-five years ago? It's only the second most north-south cooridor in the state. Why is I-5 still the same width (with the exception of around SouthCenter) from Tacoma up to Everett as it was twenty-five years ago?
Others can take up the litany of roadways that have seen nothing but detioration since Gardner, Lowry, Locke and Gregoire have been in office.
Oh, and by the way, there is no such thing as a "neocon". We Republicans and conservatives don't call ourselves that. I know it's the trendy thing to do and it makes you sound learned and erudite in a debate but slinging around a made-up term to describe people who don't exist is not the way to be cool.
As for making a poor mountain climber. (Where that analogy came from I have no idea) I know better than to trust my life on rope, oxygen tanks and crampons that are thirty years old and haven't had any maintenance done to them.
You don't put 600 pounds of weight on a rope with a 200 pound break limit.
I think this is the point where I declare victory after figuratively kicking the head in on everyone of your arguments.
Go David Irons.
You create the congestion. You deal with it.
Why should I pay my hard-earned tax dollars to widen the freeways just so you can live out in podunkville?
You don't like your commute? Tough. Move.
My reference to mountaini climbing is to point out that you are a pussy. In climbing, you do what you have to do. You don't whine about it and hope someone else will come along and save your bacon.
Posted by: Road Hog on October 13, 2005 09:29 PMIt really bothers me how you neocons are always threatening people with gun violence.
I'll bet you've never had to kill a man.
You don't know what you're getting yourself into.
Punk.
Posted by: Road Hog on October 13, 2005 09:33 PMMolan Labe....
Posted by: alphabet soup on October 13, 2005 09:45 PMPerhaps he'll come out & play tomorrow....(after his bicycle ride across the Alps)
Posted by: alphabet soup on October 13, 2005 10:38 PMSince Road Hog resorted to name-calling I assume that means he has conceded defeat and has now retreated off into a cave somewhere to take cover from the combined-arms attacks of the regular SoundPolitics readers.
Alphabet! I sure hope you're refering to a 7.62 NATO and not one of those Commie 7.62X39 or 7.62X55 or 7.62X19's. :-)
Since this post has gotten off topic I'll desist. Unfortunately, even though I've only been shot at twice, I know I'll never be as big a man as Road Hog is.
Posted by: Reporterward on October 13, 2005 11:03 PMI'm crushed!
Posted by: alphabet soup on October 13, 2005 11:11 PMBut to a man (and I am being sexist here) they didn't do it in the winter. They enjoyed the ride in the summer for a couple of weeks only.
And when I was stopped in traffic, I didn't see any Hogs cycling. Red herring alert!!
Posted by: swatter on October 14, 2005 07:31 AMYep, when my daughter enters college in 2 years, I'm moving out of King County. Your solution is very simple.
Oh, yes, I did get to see 405 built, just the way it looks today 40 years later. Someone else can have my spot in the backup. What happened to all the tax money over 40 years while the infrustucture is pretty much the same?
Posted by: Ted Bundy on October 14, 2005 10:52 AMRon Sims is a big fat liar ! (examples to be provided upon request).
Posted by: KS on October 14, 2005 01:09 PMHe did respond in the usual brash, obnoxious, arrogant (and projectionist) fashion typical of mouth-breather liberals.
(For our entertainment purposes I'm sure) He continued to dial it up & up until he blew a gasket (I presume, because I'm sure he had a big bicycle ride to France to do today). He perfectly illustrated the reason that you shouldn't try to teach a pig to wear a hat ;'}
I'm not saying that everyone from the left is as loosely wound as Hogwort was, but my point is, you usually don't have to scratch too deep to find their "inner moron".....
Posted by: alphabet soup on October 14, 2005 04:24 PMYou may be old, but you are stupid, and you are a punk who proves he'd like to kiss soupy's ass . . . but can't . . even
as much as you would obviously like to. While riding the bus, try to wise up twink, and knock off the bong.
Liberals ding dongs like you and Daniel K are making me a very rich man, and I must say, I am perpetually amused by you for it.
Thanks idiot.
Thank god for liberal punks!!
Posted by: Amused by liberals on October 15, 2005 08:19 PMfound your exchange with the Hog interesting; however, like a 'groundling' in Shakespeare's time, what can one do with that ilk;
anyway, my 2-cents for 912 is simple--with all the money over the years, with all the plans and studies up the kazoo, we in the NW still can't put a damn shovel in the ground;
it's all consensus; all paper pushing; never a concrete plan under law to finish something--anything; thus, people see this and ask why a government can't operate like their own simple checkbooks and home budgets; true--roads and bridges are more complex, but the basic plan is the same--build the darn thing and account for ALL the money; that's all we ask; works for a bridge; works for a lemonade stand;
as for hog's 'reducing traffic' rant--maybe--but everyone does not share a nice clean 9-5 day with no overtime nor kids nor other things; that, to me, is driving the road usage; we are all on slightly different schedules and have other committments that do not fit neatly into a bento box bus uniform schedule;
Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on October 15, 2005 11:55 PMIf Hoggy had just acted the age he purports himself to be, and stated his position, he likely would have received a bunch less grief than he invited.
If he can tell me where I'm wrong, more power to him! When he tells me "Don't like it? - Tough! Move!" My response is gonna be "Why don't you (try to) move me old man".
You are correct about the Oinker's myopic (could we say mud-be-sodden?!) outlook on things transitory, transitional, and especially transportational. It is all the more reason to look askance at any so-called "cookie-cutter" approaches to moving people and commerce. Liberals don't just "don't get it" - they don't care; they don't care that they don't care; and they don't care that the rest of us do!
Ultimately, this remains the reason that I remind people against the waste of time and effort trying to teach pigs like Hoggy to wear hats ;'}
Posted by: alphabet soup on October 16, 2005 09:18 PMThe money is grouped into projects as follows (numbers from WSDOT, comments are my own):
Roadway Safety: $3.257 billion - includes partial funding for AWV replacement and SR-520 expansion, which are both collosal wastes of money. Assuming everything else is actually for safety projects, $757 million of this is spending I can support.
Preservation: $0.5 million
Ferries: $185 million - none of this is for passenger ferries, which is a mistake
Multi-Modal Improvements: $85 million - grossly underfunded
Environmental: $108 million - sound walls and the like. Might not all be necessary if we took actions to cut automobile dependancy
Freight Mobility & Economics: $541 million
Choke Points and Congestion: $2.952 billion - this is code for building more freeway lanes and ramps, and is a collosal waste of money to destroy quality of life
Taking the last item plus the $2 billion for AWV replacement plus $500 million for SR-520 expansion yields a total of $5.452 billion (out of $7.139 billion) worth of projects that are worse than useless, and that actively contribute to worsening congestion in the state.
I would vote against I-912 if the gas tax increase were about safety and improving Washington's quality of life. Unfortunately, it is mostly about building more roads to encourage ever increasing sprawl.
Vote YES on I-912.
Posted by: Roy Smith on October 17, 2005 12:24 PM