This provisional ballot was counted last November for someone identified by a poll worker as a "green card voter".
"Green card voter" is not an official elections term, so I'm not exactly sure what it means here, but I fear it could mean that the voter presented a resident alien green card for identification.
Dean Logan's pollworker training teaches the pollworkers that:
But that's just plain dumb. You are justified in denying the opportunity to vote to someone who volunteers to you that they don't have the right to vote. Like when they show you an identification card that proves they are not a United States citizen.
Dean Logan is welcome to feel just as paranoid as Howell Raines did as Andrew Sullivan turned up the heat on his attempts to shelter the mendacious Jayson Blair, whose 'news' was fiction. In fact, we may also address Ron Sims, who now shelters Mr. Logan. Sullivan's quote fits this occasion exactly:
"Tick, tock"
Posted by: Hank Bradley on October 11, 2005 12:20 PMOath of applicant.
For all voter registrations, the registrant shall sign the following oath:
"I declare that the facts on this voter registration form are true. I am a citizen of the United States, I am not presently denied my civil rights as a result of being convicted of a felony, I will have lived in Washington at this address for thirty days immediately before the next election at which I vote, and I will be at least eighteen years old when I vote."
[2003 c 111 § 218; 1994 c 57 § 12; 1990 c 143 § 8; 1973 1st ex.s. c 21 § 4; 1971 ex.s. c 202 § 10; 1965 c 9 § 29.07.080. Prior: 1933 c 1 § 12; RRS § 5114-12. Formerly RCW 29.07.080.]
NOTES:
Severability -- Effective date -- 1994 c 57: See notes following RCW 10.64.021.
Effective date -- 1990 c 143 §§ 1-8: See note following RCW 29A.08.340.
Civil rights
loss of: State Constitution Art. 6 § 3, RCW 29A.08.520.
restoration of: RCW 9.92.066, 9.94A.637, 9.94A.885, 9.95.260, chapter 9.96 RCW.
By casting a ballot our "Green Card Voter" violates the law.
Dean Logan tells his people not to enforce the law.
The canvass board did not.
The election office did not.
Just who then is responsible for enforce the law?
Obviously not Dean Logan or the KCE staff.
Fraud by omission.
Posted by: JCM on October 11, 2005 12:25 PMThe culture promoted by Dean Logan and Ron Sims, and hell, probably Hague, McKenna, and Irons, too, is that they are vulnerable to lawsuits if they deny questionable people the rught to submit provisional ballots. The idea is, it is better to have the non-professional poll workers simply accept the ballots, and hope it will all get sorted out in the wash. The assumption in all this is that the laundry workers are not crooked. I have completely lost faith in KCE's honesty.
Posted by: huckleberry on October 11, 2005 01:06 PMActually, no. All the evidence suggests that this particular ballot was tabulated.
The envelope was open and empty, in a box labeled "counted provisional envelopes" and all the computer records indicate the ballot was counted.
Posted by: Stefan Sharkansky on October 11, 2005 01:09 PMThe evidence is there that this ballot was tabulated. What is in doubt is what "green card voter" means. (I should point out, I suspect Stefan is correct in his interpretation of that, too, but I am curious what the official story is. Call me a masochist!)
Posted by: huckleberry on October 11, 2005 01:15 PMIf Don Ron Sims King wins=====Logan keeps his job
If Don Ron Sims King Loses=====Logan is FIRED!
If David Irons wins============Logan is FIRED!!!
Logan is still in charge of this election.
When ballots are in doubt if the erection is close, what will Dean do??????????
Posted by: Mr. Cynical on October 11, 2005 02:20 PM
If non citizens can vote in our elections and sway statewide races, even have an effect on the National Legislative branch of Government (Gorton/Cantwell recount) why are we registering?
Let’s get all the GOP’s we can and go into King county precincts and show the poll workers our Safeway club cards. I demand to vote. Dam it, I demand to vote. Poll workers have no right to deny me my right to vote. EVERY VOTE MUST BE COUNTED!!!
Actually, if I showered and shaved, wore a decent set of clothes, I’m sure I would be turned away by the poll workers. However, If I stunk, looked like I had been dropped at the Blaine boarder crossing by Winnipeg’s finest, and had an expired Guess Who fan club card, I’m sure I could get one or two ballots into the system.
Norm, Sam, Ron, Dean..Anyone with authority…. Why is the poll worker who wrote “Green Card Ballot” still allowed to work in King County Elections?
If the election laws do not need to be obeyed, we better get with the program.
Unlike, say, Seattle P-I editor Mark Trahant, I'll tell you why you register to vote. You register so we know what precinct to assign your vote to, so you can have local representation in in local government, as well as general representation in the state and federal offices. Without registration and precinct assignment, we cannot have representation.
How well that registration and polling is administered is another matter.
Posted by: huckleberry on October 11, 2005 02:48 PMWhy didn't the legal team do what Mr. Sharkansky is doing?
Here's a BIG question: If all someone has to do is provide proof of the number of votes cast illegally was greater than the margin of victory, can't someone, anyone, then go back to court and kick the governor out?
What's the count at?
Posted by: HappyGoLucky on October 11, 2005 03:26 PMExcellent. Go Irons.
During the trial it was shown that there were several thousand illegally cast votes. The trial judge determined that that wasn't sufficient evidence to change the results or to invalidate the election even though there were more acknowledged illegal votes than the margin of victory. What mattered was that about four illegal (sorry, I can't remember exactly how many today) votes could be shown to have been cast for one or the other candidate.
Ultimately the result in the trial was that Dino Rossi LOST by a slightly LARGER margin because the only illegal votes where there was evidence that the vote was cast for one candidate or the other all went to Dino Rossi.
The trial judge essentially said that in order to overturn the results of an election in Washington State based on illegal votes you had to have proof of who those illegal votes went to. And the only way to get that proof was to get the person who voted illegally to say who they voted for, under oath.
Consider this: Anyone that knowingly votes illegally is fundamentally dishonest. Is it really reasonable to assume that somebody that knowingly votes illegally is going to tell the truth about who they voted for even under oath? For that matter, what person, knowing they have committed a crime is going to give testimony in court that says in effect that they did it. The fifth ammendment says they can't be compelled to give evidence against themselves.
If I wanted to influence an election by voting illegally and I was caught, then based on the standard set in the trial I could actually double the effect of my illegal vote by claiming I voted for the person I actually voted against. On the other hand, If I wanted to influence an election illegally I certainly wouldn't want to give evidence that I did so, since there would be criminal penalties to pay.
Basically, the standard set at trial makes the entire idea of an election contest under Washington's election laws laughable. There is no way to win one, short of violating the fifth amendment rights of the people commiting the fraud in the first place. The NUMBER of illegal votes doesn't matter, only how many can be proven to have been given to a specific candidate.
Posted by: Perri Nelson on October 11, 2005 05:08 PMVoting
One of the most important privileges of democracy in the United States of America is the right to participate in choosing elected officials through voting. As a Permanent Resident you can only vote in local and state elections that do not require you to be a US citizen. It is very important that you do not vote in national, state or local elections that require a voter to be a US citizen when you are not a US citizen. There are criminal penalties for voting when you are not a US citizen and it is a requirement for voting. You can be removed (deported) from the US if you vote in elections limited to US citizens.
But RCW 29A.08.230 says you have to be a U.S. Citizen. "Green Card Voting" in the State of Washington is ILLEGAL.
Posted by: Mike on October 11, 2005 05:33 PMDoes anyone you recall what happened to the four or so individuals that the Dem's rolled out at the Wenatchee trial? They swore under oath, incriminating themselves, that they had illegally voted as felons. Did Norm (or anyone else ) prosecute these folks? Greenie here is going to cast another illegal vote this year only this time he will bring friends. If you want more illegal behavior, simply ignore it. Posted by: Roscoe on October 11, 2005 05:51 PM
If you read this carefully, it says exactly what it means to say, i.e., you can't deny a VOTER the right to vote. Green Card Voter was NOT a VOTER, by definition, so that person should have been denied the right to vote.
So the question is, why did the poll worker grant green card voter the right to vote? Was it a lack of training, or deliberate violation of the law? Did that person also commit a crime?
Posted by: Joseph Cantu on October 11, 2005 06:03 PMWhat the heck, why not send ballots and to Afghani’s, Iranians, and North Koreans and simply accept their votes?
Quit fooling around . . . damn it!!
This is not about “diversity,” but national sovereignty.
Anyone stupid enough to ignore the distinction and its implications is a liberal democrat.
Nothing more ever need be said.
The feminization of America continues.
Posted by: Jericho on October 11, 2005 07:53 PMI also think Castro mailed in two ballots one for himself and one for his son - Elian.
And if Sims 'wins' by 412 votes what will you King County-ites do? Nothing! You'll just take it, then start talking about the next 'election', how the system needs to be fixed, how Stefan is doing great work, etc., etc., etc.
That is one absurd suggestion! Let's just ponder the possibilities of what the term "green card voter" could mean.....
1. Non-citizen voter ?
2. Green person - possibly Martian, who votes on a card?
3. Member of the Green party who votes on a card?
4. Enviro-nazi voter who chooses to vote on a card rather than a ballot?
5. (and my favorite) - person who votes on a "green card"?
Huckleberry,
Why on earth would you suggest we waste time on this mental exercise? I've got a better idea....Let's all just exercise our "common sense" with respect to the term "green card voter" - then fly off the handle as would be appropriate when our American votes are being diluted and erased by illegal non-citizen votes! Hey! Try it! Outrage is a refreshingly natural response!
Only a liberal would ask that we consider the *absurd possibilties* when a crime has been committed.
Ok did Ukraine's Orange revolution hurt Ukrainian business? Did our American revolution hurt business?
You won't stage mass rallies. You won't shut off your sales tax dollars. You won't stop paying your property txes. You won't do work stopages. You won't shut off all power in your homes for one night a week. You won't, you won't, you won't.
Yes, Stefan has done great work. What he has uncovered is huge. What has occured is an outrage, but expect it to occur again and on a greater scale because you won't do anything about it.
You just take it.
Posted by: Jericho on October 11, 2005 08:34 PMCMN for more.
Posted by: Jericho on October 11, 2005 08:56 PMIt is time to denounce those big lies along with better security on American Idol than at King County Records & Elections after an election (from Dino Rossi's new book). A mass rally would help - a demonstration outside of Sim's office to express utter outrage at how this SOB has been running the County into the ground - enough people should be present to warrant MSM coverage. Something needs to be done about this squid-like government - in November.. We can't elect David Irons, unless Ron Sims is rightfully and visibly repudiated !
Posted by: KS on October 11, 2005 09:00 PMhttp://www.washington.edu/home/peopledir/
Please let us know if that pans out!
R
Posted by: Randy Mueller on October 11, 2005 10:38 PMBTW - I don't trust Dean just by hearing him talk....lispy little S.O.B. He's a putz and looks like a little rat...what an ass. How does he have a job? Who hires a guy like that. Oops, was that not PC?
Posted by: Dengle on October 11, 2005 10:45 PMHow do I know this? Seems common sense to me, but I was also an international student on an F-1 visa at one point in the past, and I also worked at an international student office.
"Green Card refers to the official card issued by the US government to lawful permanent residents (immigrants) as evidence of their authorization to live and work in the United States. It is officially called Form I-551, the Permanent Resident Card (formerly known as the Alien Registration Receipt Card).
The Green Card represents security to its holder. It instantly communicates to law enforcement officials and US employers the right to permanently live and work in the United States."
Not sure that the Green Card in anyway gives the holder Citizen status required to vote.
Posted by: Mr. Cynical on October 12, 2005 05:52 AM
Why is this criminal action tolerated? Has any one been stood up to answer all these questions?
The answer is NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, No. What kind of state is Washington?
Next election, the Sims gang will make sure that they win just beyond the recount level so there will be no recount done. If they win and the Republicans make a stink about voting irregularities or fraud, they will be made to look like sore losers, "Not that again" talk, and "Can't we have an election without all this recount in the courts?".
I don't know who I hate most, the cheating liberals, or the wimpy-do-nothing-spineless Republican Party.
Posted by: Son of Liberty on October 12, 2005 07:33 AMWhen are there going to be penalties for violating the law??!!!!!! If it takes a citizen movement like the Minutemen to help stem the tide across the border, does it also take a citizen movement to take back the francise to vote? Who in our government is responsible for getting some teeth in the law? No penalties, no change. Pretty simple behavorial model. Posted by: duhh on October 12, 2005 09:29 AM
Sadly, I agree with you. The WA Republican silence is deafening. Lots of Republican pants. No chestnuts therein. Too bad. The longer they play the roll over defense, the more conservative voters they disillusion. Just like responding to terrorists or bullies. Keep taking it and you empower them even more. Pansies.
For once, I'd like to see the attack dog and some REAL political dirty mud slinging. Screw the polite and p.c. stuff--it's too late for that. Our state is in real trouble.
People respect leaders. It's not like any half-witted Rep. would have to make up lies. The Dems have given them so much free, factual material that one has to step over and around it. Amazing. And embarassing.
Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on October 12, 2005 10:25 AMOh well, so much for proving you have a right to vote.
Posted by: Ted Bundy on October 12, 2005 10:45 AMThey didn't screw with you because your license address said "Ciudad Juarez, D.F., Mexico" (grin...ole!!) Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on October 12, 2005 11:07 AM
Perhaps the Republican party big shots (who should be hollering from the rooftops about this) have too many problems of their own, and don't want them brought out into the light of day.
If that's the case, why doesn't the party start grooming people to be able to stand up to that kind of magnifying lens? Pick outstanding people and help them to achieve the kind of power needed to bring out the spotlight on this stuff, without staining them irretrievably.
Politics seems to attract some of the worst sort of people, and at the top levels, how few of them can safely attract the kind of attention they would get?
Posted by: HappyGoLucky on October 12, 2005 12:09 PMRight . . . you bet . . . that's how it works.
Posted by: Amused by liberals on October 12, 2005 12:45 PMActually Ted Bundy falls under the Dead Voter category of illegal votes!!! Posted by: Mr. Cynical on October 12, 2005 01:26 PM
Poverty has gone up in KC? I'm sure Sims et al are real upset about that.
Posted by: Jericho on October 12, 2005 02:30 PMNot saying Sims should be gunned down in the street, but I've noticed in my life that people like Sims have a hard time when confronted by righteous men, even more so when a righteous women is doing the confronting.
What men gave up in the Garden of Eden is our strength, our courage. We are so afraid of not looking like a man. Yet how do the 'men' of King County look now?
Posted by: Jericho on October 12, 2005 02:36 PMNot sure I understand your comment, could you please explain?
Posted by: HappyGoLucky on October 12, 2005 03:04 PMThe US Attorney, John McKay should be ashamed of himself and recalled (if possible) for doing nothing in the face of a mountain of evidence of Federal violations. He didn't investigate even after the Election contest was over ! Enough of this garbage ! Where is the outrage indeed ?
Posted by: KS on October 12, 2005 08:13 PMMy response to you was intentionally vague because I find your comments gratuitous.
Your observations and apparent critique of Republicans serves no useful purpose.
Whether you are conservative or liberal, they conclude nothing useful, they trace no line or lines of relevant cause and effect regarding the issue, they suggest assumptions that are completely baseless, non-specific, undeveloped, and uncalled for, and most importantly they suggest no useful course of action.
If you are liberal, then I understand the loose generalities, if not as I suspect, not. Maybe you are intentionally being sarcastically vague?
To be unambiguous, my questions to you would be:
Are you really suggesting that no one from the Republican Party is stepping forward about illegal voting?
Do you really believe that ”not one of them is able to bear the scrutiny of the public and the Democratic Party?
What Republican party "big shots," who you say “should be hollering from the rooftops about this,” [presumably illegal voters] have too many of WHAT problems that they supposedly don’t want brought out into the light of day?
Who are these “worst sort of people,", you seem to be suggesting that are at the top levels [apparently] of the Republican Party?
What--if anything--would you have someone/anyone from the Republican Party do?
In short, and with all due respect, while your comments are pregnant with assumptions and innuendo, they lack substance.
I’m not sure I understand them, could you please explain?
Thanks
some people in life are stupid because they have special needs. i am sorry for them. But the democrats are lower than that!!! and i don't feel sorry for them. in fact, i am enjoying the show they are putting on with the mysterious"green voter" sounds like " i am an incopetant jacka** with a bad way of hiding it!'
Posted by: andrew on October 14, 2005 08:03 AMThe fact that you have not answered my reply speaks for itself.
Your "HappyGoLucky," moron act proves that you don't have a clue about what's going on, and you don't care.
In that case . . . happily go blame everything on Bush like all of your liberal democrat moron freinds do.
Thanks for the amusing lesson.