1. It’s not PC, but does anyone else see a pattern here? I think I do.

Posted by: Brad on October 5, 2005 05:07 PM

2. If the pattern you're referring to is that the three most recent double voters have non-European names (two of which appear to have Muslim names), it's a coincidence. Yesterday's ineligible voter and the earlier double voters that I posted all had European names, as are most of the other names on my list that I'm looking for. I just happened to find these in the order in which I found them.

Posted by: Stefan Sharkansky on October 5, 2005 05:14 PM

3. I've seen enough to know that what Bobbie Egan told the Times was wrong. The "system" allows double votes... during the last election, some people claim to have received up to 4 ballots each........

Posted by: sgmmac on October 5, 2005 05:16 PM

4. "It's certainly an area we need to take seriously and we need to put safeguards in place to make sure that doesn't happen again. At the same time I think it's still a sign of improvement in terms that it was identified up front and it was brought to the canvassing board," said King County Elections Supervisor Dean Logan.

About the discover of missing ballots in the Sheriff race recount.

How many times has he repeated this line.
How many times before everyone realize the man is a genuine idiot.

Shark, Kudos, but until Sims is gone no one in King Co Government is smart enough to realize a double vote is a bad thing.

Posted by: JCM on October 5, 2005 05:28 PM

5. Would definitely like to know if Ms Salaam is a legal US/WA citizen/resident...not just someone who sleeps in an apartment in Seattle.

And that goes for alot of other double voters.

Posted by: Susu on October 5, 2005 05:30 PM

6. For these "Double Voters du Jour":

Are you also checking the Poll Books and/or Provisional Ballot Envelopes?

If so, if you don't mention there is a problem we should assume they checked out. Even so, if you have checked, you might state for the record that the voter did not vote at the polls.

If not, could you make a statement that these other avenues of voting still need to be checked for that voter.

-steve

Posted by: StephenR from Houston on October 5, 2005 05:50 PM

7. So how does Ernie "I don't see No Fraud cuz I didn't look for none" Hawkins explain all of this????
I hope Stefan or some systems analyst/CPA will AUDIT the AUDITORS scope of work....what did Ernie look at for $312,000????
Hawkins comment that he found no evidence of fraud is completely ludicrous.
Why didn't one of the KingCo Council members ask Hawkins to open up his workpapers and explain to the public PRECISELY what he was looking for and what he looked at????????????????????
This is Auditing 101--
Audit the Auditor! I'll bet you will be appalled at what he really did and what a sham this is.
ENRON and Worldcom got away with mega-scams DESPITE way more scrutiny and audit procedures than Ernie Hawkins did on his pal Dean Logan and KingCo Elections.
Audit the Auditor---you will be appalled.

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on October 5, 2005 05:57 PM

8. I must admit I am surprised that people would cheat so openly. I know they never get prosecuted, but I'm still surprised they'd put the evidence out there. I think they should be charged if they don't have a good excuse (which I have trouble imagining). I am curious whether these double voters also voted twice in the previous few elections -- their excuses, if any, deserve extra skepticism.

Posted by: Bruce on October 5, 2005 07:11 PM

9. So what is it with these friggin idiots? Can they not read? Do they not understand the Oath of Voter - "I have not voted another ballot…” and “…shall be guilty of a felony…” punishable by imprisonment of not more than five years or a fine of not more than ten thousand dollars or both such fine and imprisonment.”

What good reason is there that this person is not paying for this crime? What the hell? This is the foundation of democracy and these people are committing a crime! WTF does it take to get these people in jail? Oh, and as soon as they are convicted of a felony, they should be removed from the voter rolls! F ME! I’m so sick of my rights being trampled by these F’n people who are not even American.

Posted by: SP Fan on October 5, 2005 07:29 PM

10. Gee, and to think honest ol' me put my EXTRA BALLOT, my husbands EXTRA BALLOT and my sons EXTRA BALLOT through the shredder.

Honest, or... stupid...

Posted by: Cheryl on October 5, 2005 07:39 PM

11. The problem is going to get worse and worse as the level of fraud becomes more public. If someone doesn't find a 'scapegoat' soon to throw in jail for the maximum then more and more people will be cheating and voting several times.

I admit I have thought nasty thoughts of voting more than once in King County (and I don't live in King County) but that is all the further it went. I couldn't pull the trigger even if there were no penalties. I have also found out that more people than I would like to believe aren't so honest.

And then we already know that the Democrats think nothing of double voting.

Posted by: swatter on October 5, 2005 07:45 PM

12. If they can't get the ballot they can't count it. It's really very simple. So she's a double-voter? The more the merrier. Thanks, Stefan, for continuing to 'out' these voters AND King County. I'm stunned at how easy it is to double-vote here in Enron County. Prosecutor Maleng, we've got another one for you to deal with, here.....

Posted by: Michele on October 5, 2005 07:54 PM

13. Remember that to the far left in King County, their way of thinking is the only way. In their blue cocoon, their are no outside conservative influences and the ends always justify the means. Voting several times is their entitlement. Because to them, everything is an entitlement.

Posted by: Jeff B. on October 5, 2005 08:25 PM

14. So when does she get busted? When does Norm send over some police to arrest her? Or at least send out a ticket for her to pay. We know she's committed a felony and now she must pay..either time or $$ or both.

I'm tired of this sh*t! Liberals will allow American values to disappear since they do not hold them. They do not know what America is about or even proud enough to say they are American. Probably feel bad and say they are from the States so as not to offend a Canadian.

Posted by: Dengle on October 5, 2005 09:37 PM

15. Two questions. What type of software is KC elections using, and what idiot is operating it? Any even remotely effecient office and/or software, would pick up double names and addresses. It's a very basic concept.

Totally pathetic.

Posted by: dl on October 5, 2005 10:04 PM

16. Dengle-

Here, here, I couldn't agree more. But wait! Don't take the law into your own hands, you'll be locked up and paying $$$ dearly.

I say it's time, time for the people to rise up and kick some liberal weenie ass! I'm sick of these new Critical Areas Ordinaces, Growth Mangement Act, Public Transporation, Evergreen State F..in College.

dl - It's not a matter of software, it's a matter of will. Will to actually find illegal votes and taking action to not count them. They don't want to do that, cuz then the loose power and control.

Posted by: SP Fan on October 5, 2005 10:13 PM

17. SP Fan,

Earlier you wrote: "I’m so sick of my rights being trampled by these F’n people who are not even American."

I'm confused by the "not even American" part. Do you mean "not even Caucasian"? Or are you assuming something more here about this voter's citizenship that I'm not aware of?

If you're assuming something, it doesn't help the discussion to make such assumptions.

If you're equating "American" with "Caucasian", then you are in your own way undermining the very foundations of our democracy.

Either way, be careful with your words... they do matter.

Mark

Posted by: Mark Congdon on October 5, 2005 11:02 PM

18. Well...

Since the Democrats are double voting.....it could mean there are actually a lot less of them in King County than anyone thought! They are just representing 2 or more votes each! Heck! The Republicans could have actually been the majority for years here and no one would ever have known!

Kind of like how Goldies 3 faithful posters post under several different usernames to give the impression that it's a popular site!

Who would know what the true ratios are in this state between Dems and Republicans if the Dems keep perpetrating this fraud? Who would know in this country? All you would need were a few people in key positions...(like Executive, Governor, Records and elections...and the media and you can create your own reality.)

Posted by: Deborah on October 5, 2005 11:22 PM

19. It is hard to believe there was not an intent to
commit Fraud here. Signed and dated by the same person on the same day. Maybe this person is just used to filling out multiple government forms under different names, you know applications for food stamps, subsidized housing vouchers and the backs of Social Security checks. Why should ballots be any different?

Posted by: Roscoe on October 6, 2005 12:23 AM

20. Deborah and Roscoe have it nailed.

Posted by: Bill on October 6, 2005 05:35 AM

21. It seems rather obvious that no unique identifier (such as drivers license number or social security number or birthdate) is used at registration time as part of the identification confirmation process.

If this identifier was used, then how could someone double register with slight misspellings of their name? Doesn't HAVA require this?

The people double voting should be prosecuted. But our government should be competent enough not to enable them to double vote in the first place.

Posted by: SouthernRoots on October 6, 2005 06:58 AM

22. Not to defend it, but it's not necessarily voting twice from ill-intent. We need to be careful judging people's intent (i.e. assuming intent to commit fraud on part of voter) when we don't know their side of it.

When faceless bureaucracies sometimes send more than one copy or ask for information I've already given (think of the IRS or the power company or whatever), sometimes we might decide, "This is ridiculous, but, oh well, if filling it out more than once is what it takes to get them to recognize me/stop bothering me/finish my business, I guess that's what I need to do, stupid and inefficient as that may be." How many of us have been told "You may have sent it, but we can't find it/we don't have it, so send it again!"

I certainly don't excuse the office for not screening out the duplicates, however. I'm just saying we don't know her side of it, so let's give her the benefit of the doubt. I probably would have called the office though, if I got 2 ballots.

Posted by: Cathy on October 6, 2005 07:16 AM

23. Cathy...

I can't agree with you, the voter signed both ballots, and above HER signature on BOTH ballots is the Oath.

Maybe this voter cant read english, pure, plain and simple english. That is the only "benifit of doubt" I would allow her. And that is another topic all together.

Voters have responsibilties, and one of them is to know the RULES. The obivous rule here is, you dont get to vote more than once, anytime.

Posted by: Chris on October 6, 2005 07:39 AM

24. You can't tell from the envelopes how a person voted or which party they favor. It's easy to assume that most double voters in KC are liberal, and that they deliberately voted more than once, but we don't KNOW that about ALL of them -- and it really doesn't matter if we do know.

The real issue here is that the system allows mutiple voting and is therefore open to manipulation and fraud. And -- catch 22 alert -- the only way to fix the system is to vote the SOB's who turn a blind eye to the system's flaws out of office.

Thank you, Shark, for continuing to focus your spotlight on this problem.

Posted by: starboardhelm on October 6, 2005 08:34 AM

25. Since the trial made it clear that votes which enter the ballot box must be counted, regardless of their legality, we must have much better systems and processes that prevent the illegal votes from entering the system in the first place.

Stefan's research and the published reports of failure to prevent illegal votes from entering the system show that there is much more to be done. The laws passed by the last legislature do not give me the confidence that enough has yet been done to prevent the illegal votes from entering the system.

How many of the voters Stefan has pointed out recently are still in the KCE system just as they were for the 2004 election? What steps were taken by KCE to discover errors of this nature and correct them (prior to exposure by Stefan)?

How many of these issues will exist in January 2006, when the SoS is supposed to have a statewide voter database?

Voting is a serious business. Let's get serious about making sure that only legal voters and legal ballots are accepted by our systems.

Posted by: SouthernRoots on October 6, 2005 09:40 AM

26. I think most people are serious about a fair and honest vote.

I also think there is a well organized group on the left that holds political power in King County that is just as serious about maintaining vote fraud. This group is now backed by the majority in the legislature and executive branch in this state. They were for the most part elected as moderates who ran stealth campaigns to get elected my people who consider themselves moderates.

Consider the complete lack of real reform or any initiative by the Governor or legislature to enact meaningful changes to a County election authority which is so corrupt and has the power to influence statewide elections in favor of their party.

Oh, we are serious my friend, but so are they.

Posted by: Brad on October 6, 2005 10:06 AM

27. If you think the legislature hasn't passed more reforms due to a desire to maintain fraud, you are doomed to failure because you don't understand what you're up against. Some reforms merely require more intelligent internal processes, but there are genuine tradeoffs in many others. Some cost lots of money (e.g., screening out duplicate registrations, invalid addresses, felons, and dead people), others reduce participation (e.g., requiring ID, reducing voting by mail).

Unfortunately, political extremists of all stripes aren't real good at acknowledging the existence of tradeoffs, let alone analyzing them.

Maybe these tradeoffs are worthwhile. But until you convince the legislature and/or voters of that, you are wasting your time, which is a shame because the issues are important.

Posted by: Bruce on October 6, 2005 10:49 AM

28. Wow bruce, how astute.

I guess I should just go see what's on TV....maybe there's something good on Jerry Springer....

Posted by: alphabet soup on October 6, 2005 11:12 AM

29. Has anybody seen Norm Maleng lately?
Oh Norm, Norm? When you gonna do something about the blatant fraud?
Me thinks the words falleth on deaf ears

Posted by: Jim L on October 6, 2005 12:14 PM

30. what about a citizens arrest? The evidence needed is right here in front of us? The address is right here. Some one could contact the seattle police Dept. to advise them that they have knowledge of a felony. Then advise them that they will be going to 807 yesler way #332 to effect a citizens arrest. Request police assistance. At that point, someone will HAVE to do something about it, wouldnt they. Is it even legal for the prosecutor to disregard such blatant evidence of a felonious crime? Am I off base here?

Posted by: hookr23 on October 6, 2005 12:30 PM

31. Good ideas, last commentors.

Norm Maleng, if he wanted to, could call Attorney General (and former King County Councilmember) Rob "RMK" McKenna to start an investigation. Frankly, he should...

All that's needed is a bit of pressure from the state & county Republican parties. Pressure that should be forthcoming.

Posted by: David Irons Supporter on October 6, 2005 02:08 PM

32. hookr23: Double voting is a felony in Washington state now if it's intentional (if it's reckless or negligent, it's a civil infraction). This person voted twice last year, when it was a gross misdemeanor. See my comments at the end of this entry.

Posted by: Joshua on October 6, 2005 10:56 PM

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