King County Councilmember Dow Constantine is all excited about the Elliott Bay Water Taxi
The Elliott Bay Water Taxi route took top marks in several categories:Think about the economics for a moment. The service operates at a loss. Fares are subsidized. Bringing on additional subsidized tourist passengers will not create an operating profit that can subsidize fares for others. This makes no sense. Unless, perhaps, the Water Taxi is part of Milo's syndicate. Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at August 20, 2005 08:06 AM | Email This—Farebox recovery: The Elliott Bay Water Taxi’s established 30 percent farebox recovery rate compares favorably to Metro Transit’s system-wide goal for bus routes ...
—Appeal to tourists: ... Fares paid by tourists can help subsidize transit for commuters and other residents.
One word replied the vendor...”VOLUME”
Posted by: Brad on August 20, 2005 08:15 AMsigh.....
Posted by: Unkl Witz on August 20, 2005 08:23 AMSo sure, there is an extra cost, but you can't assume that the subsidization is on a per-rider basis. If it were, your logic holds - however now they are working from a farebox recovery model - meaning they are charging a fare to make back part of what was paid in by the gov't. At this point extra riders WOULD help to lower the per-rider subsidization rate that is currently paid. I can work up some numbers if my point needs more substance.
Posted by: bmvaughn on August 20, 2005 09:52 AMThere is a possible exception...if a major part of their cost calculation was a fixed cost for things such as boat purchases, then adding extra runs could actually be mostly variable costs...and IF the extra runs were full, then perhaps it might actually reduce the total loss on the venture.
That's not the same as producing a net profit to subsidize other ventures.
Posted by: scott158 on August 20, 2005 10:33 AMUnk, that was a fairly gracious comment. You may not realize it, but we share your pain. Personally, I’m more of an economic conservative in my voting than anything else.
The problem for me with certain ideas is what I’ve shared before as the “Disney Effect.” If you ask your family if they want to go to Disneyland, of course they’re all going to say “Yes,” and not count the cost. There’s an implicit understanding on the part of the family members, especially the kids, that the parents have figured the numbers out.
The problem is that ideas like this are floated on a normative basis…what we’d LIKE to have happen…without being honest in counting the cost, vetting the logic, and running economic analysis. We often/usually find the numbers to not “pencil out,” and when we protest…well the cascade of hostile criticisms are legion in number. If the leaders are going to be naive, myopic, and in denial, then the question becomes “Who, then, will act responsibly?”
Monorail. Sound transit. Alaska Way. Bus tunnel. HOV. CAO. The list is seemingly endless.
It’s exactly in this context that so many conservatives nod their heads with approval, when someone at last has taken over a mess, and someone will comment, “the adults have finally taken over.” Lefties hate it, but the conservatives usually have had their patience and wallets tried to exhaustion and have little energy left to celebrate.
This applies to Sounder, Bus lines, whatever. If the only price you are exposed to for something is your personal price, you make decisions based on that. It won't suddenly make everyone altruistic, but it dampens down the stupid arguments 'My bus ride only cost $1.25...' This allows the focus to be true price, not the whining about going from $1.00 to $1.25 or whatever.
Posted by: Al on August 20, 2005 01:34 PMFor example, gas taxes are a form of use tax, especially if connected directly with roads/transportation. The person in Yakima has a legitimate question as to why they should be obligated to pay for a new floating bridge or Seattle HOV lanes. The lib disconnect comes in when what should be road money is siphoned off for HOV or bike trails or parks. There is no connection; therefore it is a misapplication of the principle.
Another disconnect is the inner-city blue types that think that general use roads have nothing to do with them…but then there is the question of the transport of goods and services upon which they depend, and those that transport the soy milk, bike parts, books, CDs, etc will be affected. I hope that this is the closest we ever get to a “value added tax,” which has proven to be a hidden disaster in Europe and other places. It’s the multiplication of taxes upon value, not mileage. And it’s one of the areas that is most open to the multiplication of leftist manipulations and “unintended consequences” that could further strangle the US economy.
There’s no way that I’d ever want the same class of leftist functionary that adds one and one and gets Gregoire to have the power to misapply something that is so filled with danger to the public well-being as what use taxes represent. They are disqualified by their agenda. More accurately, they are disqualified by their inability to separate their agenda from the public good, let alone the fact that the two are actually diametrically opposed.
Unk Witz, welcome to the world of common sense. Glad to have ya....
Posted by: Michele on August 20, 2005 07:02 PMHow do they do they make a profit? Volume!
(Old, old Saturday Night skit)
Posted by: BananaLand (Aka Iguana) on August 20, 2005 11:48 PMAt least the monorail folks are attempting to break-even and have no subsidy.
ALL transit and ALL roads in this area opoerate with subsidies. Some of them are rather significant, as you have pointed out in previous posts.
Why do we accept this? And why aren't people more supportive of groups and projects trying to change this standard?
Posted by: FoM Prez on August 21, 2005 12:55 AM