Here's the latest installment in our occasional series of Dumb E-mails from Elected Officials.
 | Rep. Jim Moeller (D-49) of Vancouver, sent this e-mail to Bob Williams of the Evergreen Freedom Foundation upon receipt of Williams' essay on election reform in the July 2005 issue of Imprimis |
Sour grapes Mr. Williams! You are a Republican (or perhaps Libertarian). Your candidate lost. End of story. People aren't being prosecuted because there was no fraud. You and the Republican party went venue shopping hoping you could find a sympathic ear in Eastern Washington for your pleas and what you got was an ear full. Why or why did I not hear you howls of protest of fraud, enhanced ballots, and illegal voting after the presidential election of 2000? Because you candidate won! Jesus, you are so transparent as to be comical. Move on Mr. Williams or better yet, just move. Sincerely,Point of fact: People are being prosecuted for vote fraud, albeit not as many as should be. But what kind of elected official is so eager to offend people that he would use the name "Jesus" in vain in an e-mail and then tell a citizen he disagrees with to "move"? Sheesh.Representative Jim Moeller
49th Legislative District
P. O. Box 40600
Olympia, WA 98504-0600
360-786-7872
Send us your examples of Dumb E-mails from Elected Officials anytime.
Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at July 31, 2005 05:26 PM | Email ThisAnd isn't he just an immature, little, partisan hack. LOL! Quite the insight as to 'who' is running this state.
Welcome to WA the laughing stock of the country!! Posted by: chardonnay on July 31, 2005 05:53 PM
I do not make this comment lightly. I do not want it to come to that, and will be as patient as I can be. I will accept ANY improvement as a hopeful reason to hold off from drastic action...
but, I will not accept living in a world were I can not have confidence that the government that taxes me and rules over me is democratically elected.
To answer Mr. Moeller's questions:
1: I didn't do anything about Florida because... Oh yeah, that's right, I don't live there. If problems had continued into 2004 I would have been very upset, but as they haven't I am quite relieved.
2: I am not going to move. I was born here. I grew-up here. I married my wife here. My children were born here, and I have always intended on dying here. I like to visit other parts of the United States, but Washington is my home, and I will be dead and in my grave before I let some two-bit Chicago machine mobster want-a-bes, drive me out of MY HOME. So be warned Mr. Moeller, until last November I was one of those quiet, law-abiding, politics only extends to yelling at the TV, focused on my son's little league games kind of guy. It takes a lot to get my dander up, but if you manage to do it there is no way short of killing me that you are going to stop me.
Man it felt good to get that out.
Posted by: madmartagan on July 31, 2005 06:14 PMFrom: Moeller, Rep. Jim [mailto:Moeller.Jim@leg.wa.gov]
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 8:56 PM
To: LeAnna Benn
Subject: RE: Scr**w Abstinence Party
Hi LeAnna:
I'm a co-sponsor of the legislation you speak of. NARAL didn't write it. I don't care what they think or say and neither should you. I still support comprehensive sex education for our students that INCLUDES abstinence. I'm tired or your insistent diatribe that abstinence is not part of the legislation. CAN YOU NOT READ?? If you cannot add anything to the debate, please remove me from your distribution list. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Representative Jim Moeller
49th Legislative District
P. O. Box 40600
Olympia, WA 98504-0600
360-786-7872
What's to be said? Hope people in the 49th Leg. District (Vancouver area) are paying attention to their elected finest.
Posted by: NWconservative on July 31, 2005 06:29 PMThat's why Rep. Jim Moeller...I, Mr. Cynical, FUC*ING SALUTE YOU!!!!
Frankly, I wish all elected officials would be this candid....truly.
Think about it my friends who are always RIGHT.
There must've been talking points sent out from the State Democrat party to just keep saying there was no fraud, even though they all know there was. Why else are people being prosecuted for voting dead and twice??? Why else did at least two people come forward to KC and ask to have their names taken off the rolls because they admitted to being registered as non-citizens???? Why else were both Dems and Republicans able to find hundreds of ineligible felons voting? WHEN YOU ARE VOTING TWICE AND VOTING DEAD, YOU ARE WITHOUT A DOUBT COMMITTING FRAUD. My kids could figure this out. Why can't Moeller? Because of this apparent inability to understand this simple fact, he is automatically unqualified to be a legislator, as simple common sense is really a must, to be one.
I hope his email gets circulated far and wide (having it appear on SP is a darn good start!) to show just how out of it this guy is. If Moeller knows all, why hasn't he in his email explained why King County had 800 more mail ballots than mail voters? That is one huge elephant in the living room, bub.
People like Moeller need to be given the boot at election time. no place for bad judgment and outright lies.
Kirby Wilbur and John Carlson, this one fairly cries out to be discussed on the air this week! THIS GUY DESERVES TO BE TAKEN OUT TO THE PUBLIC WOODSHED.
Posted by: Michele on July 31, 2005 06:48 PMWhy do 60% of WA residents believe Rossi won? What did they see that Moeller failed to see??? Or does he think 6 out of 10 Washingtonians are just stupid and full of sour grapes, too??
What's really going on here is that Dems know this one stinks, but they can never publicly say so. 6 out of 10 Washingtonians can't be that wrong, in light of all we know.
Posted by: Michele on July 31, 2005 07:10 PMMoeller mantra: let every vote count
YGCM$ mantra: let every "legal" vote count
Moeller and his ilk, by not requiring photo ID to vote are essentially admitting that they're aware of the illegal voting practices, and they approve of it.
Posted by: YourGovernorCostsMillion$ on July 31, 2005 07:10 PMAnd 5)it's the Evergreen Freedom Foundation, not the Orange Grove Freedom Foundation.
Idiot, talk about being in poor taste.
Posted by: Mike H on July 31, 2005 07:17 PMBut, more importantly, cursing a living God who answered his foolish taunt over 2000 years ago in Isaiah 57, 3-5.
3 "But you—come here, you sons of a sorceress, you offspring of adulterers and prostitutes!
4 Whom are you mocking? At whom do you sneer and stick out your tongue? Are you not a brood of rebels, the offspring of liars?
5 You burn with lust among the oaks and under every spreading tree; you sacrifice your children in the ravines and under the overhanging crags.
It would be better for him to curse the name of Mohammed a dead man than the name of the living God, who will ultimately judge his words and actions.
I bet his previously mentioned parents are proud at his command of the english language.
Posted by: glenn on July 31, 2005 07:18 PMAnd they get upset because Washington Republicans complained that felons who had no legal right to vote voted anyway???
The little ditty is true then AND now: Felon votes got counted, too many soldiers' votes didn't. (and that's just fine with Democrats)
Posted by: Michele on July 31, 2005 07:21 PMSeveral of the (less than)Honorable Jim Moeller's constituents may not agree with his analysis of the situation.
On a not-so-side note: The New Hampshire State Assembly has 1 representative for every 3,000 people or so (roughly 400 some reps). They (and State Senators) get paid $100 a year. Maybe we could get an initiative for that.
Posted by: T.J. on July 31, 2005 07:36 PMA vile, mean-spirited and foolish idiot.
I'm just scratching my head - wondering how in the heck - Moeller got elected in the first place?
I'm not too familar with Vancouver politics.....but in light of what happened in November's Governors race, was Moeller elected in 2004? And was his a close race?
Posted by: Deborah on July 31, 2005 07:50 PMI have sent this to Christian Coalition of Washington www.ChristianCoalition.us for their information.
I will also forward this to WERG http://www.werg.org/ for their comments. WERG is based in Olympia and provides an evangelical Christian lobbyist for the Washington State Legislature and to State Government Agencies. This organization holds some of the top (go after-em) ministers in the state that lives for these opportunities. They can, and have worked magic with "church and state laws many times.
Rather than sit around like scandalized old maids at a tea party, let’s stay on point and address the facts.
Nobody here is going to wilt away seeing the name Jesus "taken in vain". And I'm sure Bob Williams isn't packing his Conestoga wagon.
Posted by: Reporterward on July 31, 2005 09:18 PM
If you use the name "Jesus" as a term of disgust, that's fine. What's wrong with this picture?
Posted by: Michele on July 31, 2005 09:31 PMHi LeAnna:
I'm a co-sponsor of the legislation you speak of. NARAL didn't write it. I don't care what they think or say and neither should you. I still support comprehensive sex education for our students that INCLUDES abstinence. I'm tired or your insistent diatribe that abstinence is not part of the legislation. CAN YOU NOT READ?? If you cannot add anything to the debate, please remove me from your distribution list. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Representative Jim Moeller
49th Legislative District
P. O. Box 40600
Olympia, WA 98504-0600
360-786-7872
-----Original Message-----
Posted by: HRPD on July 31, 2005 09:40 PMwww1.leg.wa.gov/house.moeller
Yeah...that'd feel good.
Moeller is out in the 49th District. Especially after his remarks are printed and posted/sent around...
Posted by: Sailor Republica on July 31, 2005 11:04 PMas far as I'm concerned, you are one.
Sure you're getting enough fresh air?
Posted by: aes on July 31, 2005 11:37 PM
This man is very disturbed!
I know that most of us here lean conservative...and we share a serious concern for the far-left-fringe ideology.....but I honestly can't imagine anyone here writing such a bizarre and hate-filled partisan email - especially if we held a public office! How can this man represent his entire public when he so blatantly despises Republicans and Libertarians?
I was reading Ron Sim's application for endorsement from the some Democrat sponsorship - and how he emphatically expressed his Democrat partisanship in his questionaire...It was as though he were taking an oath to ONLY represent the far left liberal Democrats! He made it very clear - that he has never and would never consider a Republican viewpoint! How divisive!
I think it's time for Democrats to attend mandatory diversity training as a requirement for office! They are the most intolerant party in the US! They remind me of Communists! It's never for the people....it's always and only for the party!
Here's a snippet from Sims questionaire:
http://www.wuxx.com/kcdems/temp/Endorsements2005/questionnaires/Final%20Sims%20KCDCC%20Questionnaire.doc
1. Are you a member of another political party? If so, which ones? Have you ever supported or given money to a candidate from another party in a partisan race? If so, whom?
A lifelong Democrat, I have never been a member of another party, nor supported a candidate from another party in a partisan race.
2. Are you a member of your local Democratic District Party? Have you contributed financially to the County Democratic Party? Have you been a Precinct Committee Officer? When/Where?
I am a former member of the 37th District Democrats but have never served as a Precinct Committee Officer. My campaigns have given money to the King County Democrats in the past.
3. What are the main messages of your campaign? What is your campaign plan? How many doors have you knocked on to date, pieces of mail planned, budgeting and staffing? Why will you win? What is the fundraising goal for your campaign? How much have you raised to date?
I am running for King County Executive because there remains much to do to improve our great county. My main themes are: begin the restoration of Puget Sound; improve the quality of our health care system while reducing skyrocketing premium growth; and what I call our quality of life issues – increasing trail capacity in the county, ensuring affordable housing, increasing our transportation alternatives, ensuring clean air and clean water and preserving another 100,000 acres of open space and forest land for future generations.
I am very confident that we will win this race and keep the Executive Office in Democratic hands. We have raised over $360,000 to date and are well on target to raise $500,000 by filing. Our final goal is $750,000 by the November and our fundraising is going very well. My campaign includes an aggressive voter outreach strategy, mail pieces, an on-air campaign and the use of hundreds of volunteers throughout the county.
We will win because the people of King County have made clear their basic values: growth management, preservation of forest lands and open space, the importance of cleaning up our environment and restoring our important bodies of water, providing real transportation solutions and choices, as well as providing the important social safety net for the most vulnerable in our society. My opponent will roll back the gains we have made over the past few years. That’s not the future the people of King County want.
4. What is the single most pressing issue facing your jurisdiction, and what actions would you take if elected?
If we do not plan for future growth and climate change, as well as make serious gains in cleaning our air and water, future generations will be denied the quality of life that is so important to us. We are in a critical time, with global warming upon us, an additional 300,000 people expected in the region in the next 45 years and critical species in our ecosystem on the verge of extinction. Now is the time to plan for growth in a way that provides clean air and water for fish, people and other species. We must continue to control the incoming growth to ensure forestlands, rural areas and open space in the future. If we do not spend the time now to create the infrastructure and undertake significant preservation and restoration efforts, our children and grandchildren will not have the opportunities we enjoy today.
5. Non Partisan Races A. If you do not win the primary, is there any reason you could not support your primary opponent(s) in the general election?
Partisan Races B. If you do not receive the nomination, is there any reason you could not support your Democratic opponent in the general election? Please explain.
Though I do not have a Primary opponent, I have never voted for a Republican and would absolutely support another Democrat in this race if I were not to receive the nomination.
“if you don't support their narrow agenda and philosophy then you should shut up and leave the state.”
You nailed it right there. In some debates, it’s been labeled as ‘Tolerance’. If you don’t support their agenda, philosophy, or perceptions, then they won’t tolerate you and want you to leave. Dissent is healthy for a Republican Democracy and should be encouraged. It opens up minds to different perceptions and encourages thinking. To tell anyone that you don’t agree with them and tell them to leave is an elitist’s attitude. It is saying that you don’t have an open mind to different perceptions. It is saying that you have no ‘tolerance’.
Posted by: RG on August 1, 2005 12:07 AM(Translation for Trolls: There is a measure for how knowlegable you are, conversely, there is NO limit to the depth of STUPIDITY to which you may WANT to SINK.)
Posted by: Arky on August 1, 2005 05:19 AMDRAFT REPUBLICANS!
Posted by: Third Party Voter on August 1, 2005 06:01 AMI for one would be intensely interested to see an example of an elected official on the right side of the equation sending out crap like this.
Can you offer up such an example, Mr. "Third Party Voter" (AKA likes to vote for losers)?
Or are you talking out yer sphincter (again)?
Posted by: alphabet soup on August 1, 2005 07:33 AMIt needs a cleaning. Posted by: PC on August 1, 2005 08:28 AM
And yet the minority pays them just as much per worker in salary.
This is just another example in a lengthy litany of insults directed at the voters of the state...and I'm sure many dems would be displeased by his comments as well...that I hope will end up in a great new class of candidates for office for whom which integrity and pragmatism matter. Not to mention the law and the state's welfare.
Posted by: scott158 on August 1, 2005 09:02 AMNo. I'll stay right here, thank you. I'm waiting for this all this crap to finally spill into the streets, and then the fun starts.
Will you be out there, or will you be a big talker still sitting behind the protection of your computer?
Posted by: jimg on August 1, 2005 09:06 AMDear Rep. Moeller,
A friend of mine from the Evergreen Freedom Foundation recently forwarded me the text of your reply to a letter from Bob Williams, President of the Evergreen Freedom Foundation. I was somewhat disturbed that you decided to bring up the 2000 Election in Florida, and wondered why Mr. Williams wasn't up in arms then. In case you skipped geography class, Washington is a long way away from Florida. Oh, and Mr. Williams is President of the Evergreen Freedom Foundation, not the Citrus Freedom Foundation. But what disturbed me more than this was your derogatory usage of "Jesus" in your email. Jesus may not mean much to you, but he is the Son of my God, and His name is certainly not to be treated lightly or without respect. I am sure you would be less than pleased if I constantly launched verbal attacks against you using the word "fag." Your party claims to be the party of compassion, understanding, and tolerance, but you chose to take the lowest of low roads with Mr. Williams. Instead of replying that you "recognize his concerns" and in fact recently passed voter reform legislation, you chose to insult his intelligence and condemn his viewpoint as worthless. I wonder if you agree with my assessment. Would you be bothered if I occasionally sent you an email telling you to get your "you know what" out of Clark's "you know where" and pay attention to our state's problems? Should I write off your worldview as complete idiocy and refuse to acknowledge any arguments otherwise. If you reply, please keep the profanity, insults, misspellings, and grammar mistakes, which you seem to be so fond of, to a minimum.
Sincerely,
Posted by: ARS on August 1, 2005 09:08 AMHaving Kirby or John discuss the situation will do no good. Kirby and John are great guys, and definitely sources for change in the Puget Sound metro area, but no one gets KVI (radio reception) in Vancouver and few people actually know who they (Kirby/John) are in Clark County. Better to have Lars Larsen discuss it since he is a local (Clark County) resident and nationally syndicated.
Many of you will remember Sen. Carlsen (R), Vancouver. You will also remember his typically liberal leaning stances on numerous issues, including abortion, gun control, etc. The people of the 49th district didn't think he was liberal enough, so they elected a Democrat. Vancouver is now suffering from the same problem Seattle is with Jim McDermott. Posted by: David Hoffman on August 1, 2005 09:24 AM
Well said!
Stand by for Mr. Moeller's non-apology in the form of a blanket e-mail to all who write, as he learns the power of the web through the world-wide dissemination of his idiocy.
"To the degree that my words were taken out of context in a private e-mail not intended for public consumption, I am deeply sorry that what I wrote was misundertood and...blah blah blah"
This ultramaroon needs to be TOSSED OUT, not for what he said this time, but for how he votes.
Regards,
Shaun
Good call about Lars vs. the KVI guys. I met Lars a few times back when I was working politics in Washington state. I'm sure I have his contact info or business card laying around somewhere. I'll try to give him a call. In the meantime, maybe a few other readers should too. He probably has a website with an email address for him or his producer or something. Lets get him out of Olympia and maybe send him off to write jokes for Carson Daly or something.
Posted by: ARS on August 1, 2005 09:31 AMThird Party is in the streets. He sleeps in a doorway one block off Yesler on Post and he makes his comments at a workstation in the library.
By the way, if you ever have occasion to use one of those, take some disinfectant with you.
Newsradio 750 KXL Portland
11am-3pm weekdays
Toll-Free Call-in: (866) 509-LARS
or lars@larslarsen.com
Enjoy
Posted by: David Hoffman on August 1, 2005 09:48 AMNewsradio 750 KXL Portland
11am-3pm weekdays
Toll-Free Call-in: (866) 509-LARS
or lars@larslarsen.com
Enjoy
Posted by: David Hoffman on August 1, 2005 09:48 AMNewsradio 750 KXL Portland
11am-3pm weekdays
Toll-Free Call-in: (866) 509-LARS
or lars@larslarsen.com
Enjoy
Posted by: David Hoffman on August 1, 2005 09:48 AMSad!
Posted by: John on August 1, 2005 10:01 AMThe basics of a third grade education are not essential when you face only a yes/no choice and the voices in your head are not your own.
Posted by: scott158 on August 1, 2005 10:10 AMThe 10th Commandment, 'Thou shalt not take the Lord thy God' name in vain', may mean something other than what some religions indoctrinate their parishoners to believe. Because 'to take God's name' can be translated to mean 'to take belief in God', 'to believe', or to 'profess belief', this translation infers that the 10th Commandment could be worded, 'Thou shalt not commit deceit'.
To 'take God's name in vain' would thus mean to say one is a believer and then break other commandments anyway, deceiving others about matters of faith.
Which translation is more logical; that it matters a hoot how we use God's name, or that it matters to God that we act sanctimonius while lying, stealing, committing soldiers to 'murderous' wars, coveting and the rest?
If your church will not allow you this 'liberal' translation, it is because your leaders do not want you to think for yourself. Just shut up and pay your tythe or God will laugh while you burn in hell.
Posted by: Artie on August 1, 2005 10:36 AM
He is a drug and substance abuse counselor, so he must have some background in psychology. I don't, but I think the discipline has something to say about people who act one way in person and another in writing when they are not facing someone directly. Passive-aggressive?
As for his political vulnerability, Clark County overall leans Republican, but he represents part of the County that leans Democratic. The 49th District is not overwhelmingly Democrat. It gave 45% of its votes to Bush, 43% to Nethercutt, 46% to Rossi, 48% to Reed, and 49% to McKenna, Sutherland, and former Senator Carlson. The other two Districts in Clark lean Republican (the 17th) or are semi-safe Republican (the 18th).
It would be tough to beat him, but in a low-turnout election (like '06 will probably be)against a moderate Republican, it is not implausible that he could be taken out. He's shrill e-mails might cost him some Democrat-leaning independents.
Posted by: b2 on August 1, 2005 10:39 AMMy church? Huh? I'm Jewish. I just try to be sensitive and not offend the Christians I correspond with by using Jesus' name in a temper tantrum.
Posted by: Stefan Sharkansky on August 1, 2005 10:43 AMOnce again, I commend Rep. Moeller for speaking bluntly and from the heart (something most LEFTIST PINHEADS are incapable of).
I truly believe that Rep. Moeller should have his own statewide Radio program and speak just as he writes. GIVE REP. MOELLER THE MICROPHONE AND A PLATFORM OFTEN!!!! I have learned that if you give the fringe lunatic LEFTIST PINHEADS enough rope, they always hang themselves. Rather than condemn Rep. Moeller at this time, I propose asking Rep. Moeller to please tell us all more about how he feels....PLEASE TELL US MORE!!
There is no election today my friends who are always RIGHT. When you find a loose cannon like Moeller, you want him to talk, talk & talk some more. Then you accumulate his lunatic rantings and use them against both him AND the PARTY he represents.
So, Rep. Moeller, please tell us more about how you feel sir.
Posted by: Mr. Cynical on August 1, 2005 10:59 AMIf your church will not allow you this 'liberal' translation, it is because your leaders do not want you to think for yourself. Just shut up and pay your tythe or God will laugh while you burn in hell.
In the above statement I quoted, YOUR key Word Is LIBERAL....
Try reading the bible in "context". You will have a better grasp of reality.
Posted by: Chris on August 1, 2005 11:01 AMThe more I read these posts the angrier I become. When someone can incite such intense emotions in the rest us, raise our level of discus and betray the trust his constitutes placed in him then it is time for him to pack up and go away.
Did he use his legislative email address to attack a tax paying “Washington State Citizen” or was he smart enough to use a personal email account? How bad and ugly is it all going to become before we wake up and start house cleaning in the political arena. Even are own beloved GOP can not come together and hear the mandate we sent them with I-912 as yet.
Someone suggested arm revolt……I hate to say it but I can feel that kind of anger swelling up inside.
When God gave the Commandment "Thou shalt not kill", why then did God, some forty years later offer the wandering children of Israel the entire land of their forefathers, if they would only 'kill' its every inhabitant and animal livestock? Hmm, Sharkansky? An uncomfortable contradiction perhaps?
I believe God wanted the Israelites to say "NO", not in rebellion, but in obedience. God taught right from wrong and then presented the Israelites with a test, a test they failed, failed then and today when the Jews decided to conquer Palestine, as if God wanted them to do so.
Now, do you see the importance of liberal translation? Remember, thou shalt not commit deceit, thus sayeth the lord.
note: The difference between "lying" and "practicing deceit": Lying is relating a falsehood. Deceit is when one coerces others into believing a lie, without necessarily lying.
Personally, I see the Vancouver area as politically moderate, but, what the hell.
Posted by: Artie on August 1, 2005 11:02 AMHow do you coerce other's into believing a Lie without first lying about it. Ohhhh I know !!! Repeat it (the lie) over and over again, make yourself believe it is the truth, a truth that any bank would envy. I see now... The democratic way!!!
Posted by: Chris on August 1, 2005 11:11 AMBut, don't worry that God's gonna send you to hell. Being afraid of hellfire is another misinterpretation of the Bible that your church doesn't want you to know about.
Most would interperate Moeller's comments as him wanting to use Christ's name as a curse word... somehow, I don't think God really like's having His name used like that too much. It's not really a "liberal" denomination versus "conservative" one arguement.
Oh, and the original texts translate more appropriatly as "thou shall not murder"... war is not the same as murder. But since I apparently don't think for myself and you're so much more enlightened then me, what the heck do I know?
Posted by: Mike H on August 1, 2005 11:11 AMVoters in his district: if you are not smart enough to can this troll, then you deserve it--however, he will affect us ALL in the Legislature if you don't—just like that bean burrito in the packed elevator. Don't let us down! This guy's an arrogant sphincter. No class. No decorum. Contempt for his position & taxpayers.
I wonder what would befall him if he dared utter: "Allah--you are so transparent..." Other ethnic communities would come down on him like a ton of bricks, and we would see another "Crying Durbin" half-azzed apology within minutes of his blather.
1. Don't TELL me what "My" Church does or doesn't do for me.
2. I am not afraid of hell, because I know in my heart and soul, that I will not become a resident.
3. If my prayer's annoy God, that is too bad, because they sure make me feel alot better.
But...I will pray for you Artie, because you seem awfully bitter.
With that said, I am off the religious topic, back to Politic's.
This letter seems like a gross stereotype, perpetrated by somebody who wants to damage Moeller's reputation, rather than an actual letter by somebody who has a professional reputation to maintain.
Now, if Moeller really is an ass, and really did write this letter, that's fine. But if people think he is an ass because of false information (think Rathergate), that's a bad thing. Posted by: pseudotsuga on August 1, 2005 11:32 AM
Your posts complement moeller's "nicely".
Your presumption that someone's prayers "annoy god" are the height of arrogant ignorance. But I guess that it fits with the rest of your twisted notions of religion and spirituality.
People, especially people in the Public Square, avoid gratuitous use of God's name out of reverence of Him, and respect for each other. moeller proves that he has respect for neither (as, apparently do you).
That's OK - it just means that when next you attempt to influence someone with your opinion, your credibility will be tested against your reputation.
Have yourself a really special day!
Posted by: alphabet soup on August 1, 2005 11:32 AMYou obviously have as little much knowledge about the Old Testament as you to the New Testament. And if I remember correctly the Hebrew translation for testament is "commandment". True Christians understand that God’s word is not to be played with and twisted. Before God moved the Hebrew people into the promise land he choose to remove the current tribes that practiced debauchery, and in many cases child sacrifices to twisted and corrupt God’s. Take time to study history and read about the type of atrocities performed by the people living there before God cleansed the land.
I will not debate God with you or anyone but wanted to state by views just as you have yours. Christians understand that the time is coming when many will twist God’s words and his teachings; we also know were they will stand on the Day of Judgment. God’s words are living words and any true Christian would not attack and arrogantly toss his word around so lightly.
I love, believe in God’s word and I will continue to pay my tithe, read the bible and pray for people like you and Moeller.
First, the 10th Commandment says nothing about using the Lord's name in vain. The 10th Commandment addresses jealousy. The 3rd Commandment would be the one at issue here. You are right, though, in that the original Hebrew tablets probably used language referring to the use of "Yahweh" in contracts. Contracts can be broken by man, God cannot. So technically, the Bible doesn't say don't drop the F-bomb, but there are still societal norms in play here, which dictate that one, especially an elected figure, should not trash God's name. Likewise, you could blast George Washington, and not violate any religious or secular law, but its not really in good taste, and you're going to offend a lot of people.
As for prayer, I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. The Bible says that wherever two or more people are gathered, God is there. If prayer annoyed God, I don't think he would go chill with people whenever they got together to pray.
Regarding Hell, I don't know if it will be fire and brimstone, or just eternal separation from God, but either way, I know it's gonna suck.
As for the church I attend, it follows the word of God, not the word of man. Men are sinners, but God is eternal. The choice was simple.
Posted by: ARS on August 1, 2005 12:18 PMA troll to me is someone who disregards the whole point of this site....Sound POLITICS!!
Posted by: Susu on August 1, 2005 12:47 PM9/11, 7/7, Belfast, Gaza, and the beheadings in Iraq show what happens when interpretation starts and faith stops.
Posted by: fred on August 1, 2005 12:54 PMAll bow in prayer to our new saviour, Artie.
Artie! Artie! Artie!
Posted by: Jeffro on August 1, 2005 12:56 PMThis guy is a gift! Let's share his email with every democrat we see. This is what is at their core, unless the democrats get up and denounce this nutcase. The truth shall set you free!
Posted by: Jonathan Gardner on August 1, 2005 01:01 PMIf you want theology, then: yes, God is vindictive, but he is also extremely and un-prejudisciously loving. It may seem contradictory, but we cannot fully understand the nature of God while we still inhabit the earth. He is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and end. God is not governed by such manmade notions as logic.
Posted by: ARS on August 1, 2005 01:05 PMHey, Mr. Moeller.
Your missive to Bob Williams proves why you'll always be just another whipping boy for Mistress Christine, so I hope you like it on the bottom.
I wonder what the state constitution says about elected officials mailing intimidating letters to their political opponents?
Not that you would know- since you can't spell, I doubt you can read either.
I am sure that you will have some snappy rejoinder to fire off to me. But for pity's sake, learn how to spell so you don't embarrass yourself.
You have not presented a view, other than yours must be the correct view; which is nonsense.
Watch out! You're turning to stone!
"Faith is the substance of that which is hoped for; evidence of that which is unseen". By this scripture, we have 'evidence' of God and an afterlife. We have evidence, but not absolute proof. No one can prove nor disprove God's existence. Yet, christian fundamentalism indoctrinates their sheep-like followers to accept the interpretation of absolute proof.
Kiss my ass, Jeffro.
Posted by: Artie on August 1, 2005 01:12 PMNot sure I like the way you use the term "Oh brother", I'm offended.
Really, I agree with you, Artie is a diversion - albiet an entertaining diversion.
Posted by: Jeffro on August 1, 2005 01:14 PMHe has the qualifications to get himself rejected, and no one else.
Re: Moeller...give him a mic, give him a podium, give him an audience. Every taxpayer/voter should have the opportunity to benefit from his collected wisdom.
He's not a nut. He's an embittered, mean-spirited, selectively misanthropic idealogue, who deserves to have his employment account transfered to the employment office. And a re-education camp for recidivist bad judgment, if we had one.
Posted by: scott158 on August 1, 2005 01:20 PMNo thanks - your rants smell bad enough.
Posted by: Jeffro on August 1, 2005 01:22 PMAll the issues surrounding us in Iraq, the religious differences between us and the Arab and Muslim world are caught up in an as yet declared holy war as well. This troll is lost but he is leading us to bind together against his attacks and defend our faith. This issue is far more then what Mr. Moeller has said.
That said I bow to you and SP and will step of my pew.
You too have seen the light.
You do not try to shut up fools like Moeller...
au contraire...you do everything you can to get them to speak even more!!!
I tire of my friends on the RIGHT who seem so fragile and easily offended. SUCK IT UP and encourage this LEFTIST PINHEAD to keep talking!!!
Posted by: Mr. Cynical on August 1, 2005 01:40 PMAgree - give 'em enough rope to hang themselves.
Posted by: Jeffro on August 1, 2005 01:45 PMI respectfully and politely disagree with you regarding the debate on Mr. Moller’s lack of education and etiquette. Too bad Mr. Moller, who is a State Representative, did not exercise respect in a polite manner to Mr. Williams of EFF, as I am to you.
Posted by: kim in vancouver on August 1, 2005 01:56 PMI'm not agreeing with Moeller...I'm just hoping we can get this loose cannon to say a lot more before the State Democratic Party machine shuts him up. It's called "Politics 101"! Posted by: Mr. Cynical on August 1, 2005 02:02 PM
Give him a chance to "fish or cut bait."
Constituents are either constituents or they aren't, and potential election opponents should take advantage of his predictable reactions.
I don't mean to be crude, but sometimes the best way to deal with an infection is to let it come to a head.
Let him bring his ruin down upon himself, lest he be able to play the martyr card. It's the mistake Newt and others kept making with BC.
Posted by: scott158 on August 1, 2005 02:02 PMWe should try to get Mr. Moeller's thoughts on beastia1ity legislation.
And I agree, somebody should make a public records request for emails from that account. If we got mad at him for saying "Jesus" in anger, I'd hate to see the backlash if it turns out he was setting up dates and horse parties and the like over his taxpayer-funded internet.
Posted by: ARS on August 1, 2005 02:07 PMOT: George Bush just appointed John Bolton today as the Ambassador to the U.N.!!
Screw the U.N., all Democrats and liberals in general. Do the right thing, ignore them.
Posted by: Amused by liberals on August 1, 2005 02:18 PMJust go to the site below and download the form to file an ethics complaint.
http://ethics.wa.gov/forms.html
Posted by: kim in vancouver on August 1, 2005 02:48 PMAre you Rep. Moeller's bitch? Posted by: Mr. Cynical on August 1, 2005 02:49 PM
By the way, is this a dollar-chargable item for political speech? How much per insult? Are cuss words worth less fair value than using the name of a Diety? Will Moeller report the value of this poltical speech to the Pub. Disclosure Comm. like the talk radio stations had to with the last voter initiative? Did Moeller act within his elected capacity e-mailing a constituent or did he use state assets to soapbox his political views? Is this insulting AND illegal? ps--how about a religious hate/disrespect speech angle? or Christians don't count? didn't he symbolically touch someone's imaginary Koran with his comment?
Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on August 1, 2005 02:54 PMWhy in the world would anyone want to file an ethics complaint against this guy? Yes, he's remarks are rude, condiscending, and in exceptionaly poor taste... but at least he's being honest. You almost have to respect a politicion for that (the key word being almost). Plus, it's free country-- there aren't any laws against being an idiot, and he could be an exceptionally usefull idiot. I wish he would say this stuff more often. Not because I agree with him or anything-- I don't-- but if he keeps popping off like that, he's bound to loose his reelection and turn his district over to a republican.
How does that old saying that go? Never interupt your opponent while he's destroying himself.
Posted by: Mike H on August 1, 2005 03:09 PMyour question to kim was:
"Why in the world would anyone want to file an ethics complaint against this guy?"
Because It would be the RIGHT thing to do. He is the voice for the 49th district, and his voice is suppose to speak for All. If he acts like a village idiot, then he represents a village full of the same. That is the point. His remarks are not Proper for the capacity he is in.
But your right, let him talk out his a$$, and he will prove to all that he is one.
You are absolutely correct.
Some of our friends who are always RIGHT just don't get it though. They have fallen into the LEFTIST PINHEAD mode of being easily offended by morons.
The LEFTIST PINHEADS achilles heel is a lo
ack of a sense of humor and their inability to have the patience to allow their opponents the rope to seriously hang themselves. Sadly, some of our friends on the RIGHT suffer from a similiar affliction! Posted by: Mr. Cynical on August 1, 2005 03:42 PM
That Moeller's comments justify armed rebellion
That Moeller is the off-spring of an adulterer and a prostiute
That he has no balls
That he is unreasonable about everything because he is homosexual
That he is a whipping boy for an alleged dominatrix
That he screws interns and horses
and that he arranges dates and parties with the foregoing on the taxpayers' time.
I apologize if I missed anything.
Many of you have accused Moeller of idiocy and hatred, but perhaps you should read through these comments and re-assess where idiocy and hatred live.
My goodness, bring your head outta the gutter. I didnt read anything like that, but obviously you left your mind at the fish ladder.
Posted by: Chris on August 1, 2005 03:50 PMAs always your imagination outstrips your logic and cognitive abilities. Posted by: katomar on August 1, 2005 04:02 PM
"When God gave the Commandment "Thou shalt not kill", why then did God, some forty years later offer the wandering children of Israel the entire land of their forefathers, if they would only 'kill' its every inhabitant and animal livestock?"
God gave the Commandment 'Thou shalt not murder', not 'kill'. BIG difference. Unless you are a leftie.
The Commandment is very specific, and refers to MURDER, not capital punishment, or manslaughter or whatever humans want to interpret. Period.
finding additional ballots long after the polls closed and why the media insisted on calling the elction way before the western Florida state polls closed.
And Mr Moeller would also find out that in King County alone they found more votes than Florida 2000 and Ohio 2004 combined. They also "enhanced" 4 times as many ballots as Florida.
So what is his real b**ch, Florida should have gone the distance and made sure Gore won; like King County did for Queen Christine.
OBTW, Moeller should be the one to move. I think he would fit right in with the former ruling Communist in Russia, but I bet even they have standards for the people they allow to imigrate there.
Posted by: Mike P on August 1, 2005 04:11 PMI can read, or I wouldn't have responded to your fishy smelling comment.
Posted by: Chris on August 1, 2005 04:15 PMWhile I think Rep Moeller's email was contemptable, some of the comments made about him in response were just as contemptable. The only difference was that he presented his missive in his capacity as a public servent.
And just for N.C.: You gain no brownie points for pointing out the foibles of various commenters here while ignoring the ones committed by Rep Moeller himself. You too can be "hoist by your own petard."
Posted by: Eyago on August 1, 2005 04:21 PMI shudder to imagine the response if Moeller did something truly heinous like drive by himself in an HOV lane. Posted by: Reporterward on August 1, 2005 04:50 PM
http://www.kpam.com/
6:00 to 9:00pm
(Pssst...Stefan!.....Start a NEW post about something.....anything!!...quickly!!....but first check the IP of our new troll...He preaches in the same inept fashion as the Reverend Ron Sims.....snicker..)
Shaun, I would like to try to answer this with my somewhat limited knowledge on the Old Testament. When God led the Hebrew people to the promise land it was full of followers of pagan God’s and Idolaters who were responsible for demented practices and cultures. In order to control this land they had to go to war with the inhabitants, the deaths that resulted from concurring the towns and fortresses where the result of war not murder. It is important to note that God was creating tribes (12) of people that would cleans the land and live the moral live styles he envisioned when he created man kind. Thus the 1000’s of years of war’s surrounding the Hebrews through the times of the Judges and kings that make up the fascinating stories of the Old Testament.
The “kill every inhabitant and animal livestock” comes from the bible in God’s charge to King Saul to wipe out a pagan tribe (nation) that was involved in child sacrifices, homosexual religious practices, including with animals on a huge order. This one verse in the bible has bothered many people including myself. I finally resolved it when I learned from a bible scholar who worked and trained in Israel. They have done extensive DNA on the bones of the people and animals of this tribe (see past issues of Bible Archeology review) and found extremely high levels of sexual transmitted decease and brain damage in man and animals alike. God new that they would infect the Hebrew people as many of the Hebrew men where easily led back and forth to the women of these tribes. The only way to preserve the Hebrew people (and other tribes) in the area was the complete elimination of these people.
God made and kept his promise to Abraham to protect and prosper his chosen people if they honored him and his commandants. The bible is full of stories of how man kind has chosen to turn his back on God we just never seem to get it right. Man kind continues to sin and kill and that is why God gave us Jesus to die for the sins we are unable to concur by ourselves. And that is one of the reasons why we are offended by comments like Mr. Moeller made using the Lords name in vain.
Would it really be the right thing to do? I understand your point, and at first was inclined to think the same way... but if he continues to act like the village idiot, the village gets a chance to kick him out at the end of his term in '06. If someone files a complaint and he shuts up, he would still be the village idiot, he just wouldn't be reminding the village of the fact and may stay in office.
At the end of the day, which would be better for the village of Vancouver?
Posted by: Mike H on August 1, 2005 06:00 PMI think you misunderstood my post.
I wrote in response to an earlier post (that was the part in quotes - the earlier post from "Artie")...so really, we have lost all thread discipline here, and I appreciate your answer and all, but it should be addressed to "Artie". I guess I didn't write my response out very well.
Say, what was all the hub-bub about, anyway?
Cheers,
Shaun
But.....I have never been one to pay much attention to politic's until this past election. Sure I voted, but that was it.... I now hope more "average voters" start "requiring" their representation in OLY to be accountable.
In My opionin this accountability doesn't start with KC Elections, it starts at the very bottom rung of the Political ladder. Our society is drying up with "ohhh my goodnes, don't talk back, it's not polite"...I say fight back with the same vengance as when they wanted our vote. Make them keep those promises that got them elected. Demand that we get fair goverment, and don't let them forget it.
Posted by: Chris on August 1, 2005 07:24 PMSo Artie.....this tread is for you.
No sweat! I do the same thing most of the time.
BTW, your knowledge of the Old Testament is most sound (from what understanding I am gaining), and your note spelled it out better than I could of said, so thanks.
Back to the topic:
Anyone else with 'Dumb e-mail' to share?
Regards,
Shaun
This guy is basically an idiot. His email basically echoes what he sent me, but its apparent that he is even more beligerent now, due in part, I guess, to Queen Gregoire's "victorious mandate" at the judge's seat... er, the ballot box.
Moeller needs to be retired when he comes up for re-election, which I think is this year, maybe next.
Posted by: JRR on August 2, 2005 12:09 AMIt would be nice if he could report on this issue, but I don't believe that it will be reported properly all be it if it should make make print.
Now, if it were say, a republican, or a christain, "spewing retroic" that didn't align with the MSM, he would be all over the story like flies on ... you know what.
Posted by: kim in vancouver on August 2, 2005 09:55 AMIf indeed the emails outlined here are true, Mr Moeller needs to be voted out of office. That's no way to treat others, especially in the capacity of being an elected representative.
Posted by: Gary on August 2, 2005 11:09 AMmoeller.jim (at) leg.wa.gov
Moeller_Ji (at) leg.wa.gov
I do not know if Jim has a clue at what a stink he is raising. Just remember to re-read your message before sending it. You would not want someone digging up one of your old emails if you decide to run for public office in the future!
He sends e-mails like that. I've seen others from last year...
Posted by: b2 on August 2, 2005 03:41 PMSCREWED>>>>>>>>>
Posted by: andrew on August 3, 2005 10:04 PMCan't we demand the same from Moeller? Attend sensitivity training on his dime for his insults to his boss? Or does the tolerance, fairness and diversity door only swing one way--(and hit the taxpayer in his head?)
It's shameful that he wrote an e-mail that included the name of Jesus as an exclamation point/expletive. He's a loser. I said as much in my e-mail to him. Wake up folks!
makes a great "pin the tail on the donkey" source; hey--slap those babies on a 1000-sheet roll of biodegradable and septic-safe paper, and you have a VIABLE marketing idea!
Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on August 4, 2005 11:13 PM