July 26, 2005
1. Oh man!
The Teamsters splitting from the AFL-CIO???
(snicker)........(snort.....giggle.....Hahahahahaha!!!)
Go figure?
2. Oh that would be a darn shame, if organized labor hurt the democrat's campaign. They would just have to learn to cheat better.
3. This doesn't surprise me. Most of the members of these unions are hard working men; meanwhile, the Democratic party has been completely taken over by gender feminists. That's not a good mix and I just wonder why it took so long.
4. The split doesn't surprise me either. The DEMS are pushing gay marriage and higher taxes. The rank and file Union membership is opposed to these issues.
5. During the 2000 presidential campaign, James Hoffa indicated his disgust at the fact that neither the Democrats or Republicans were friends to the labor unions, yet they kept throwing their money at the Democratic party. The Teamsters should have split off years ago.
6. The only people I know who have worked for unions, not including state and county workers, usually worked 6 months out of the year and were on unemployment the other 6 months. Wow, what a life.
I do not understand the mentality there.
7. Does this mean an increase in number of entities tithing to the Democrats campaign coffers?
8. As an involuntary contributor of union dues, though not a union member, I say it's about time! I am the official care provider for my disabled son, and declined to join the union, but am forced to pay union dues anyway. They contribute it all to Democrat causes and candidates. The union political boards make the decisions on where to contribute, not the union members. It's about time they finally took this step. I hope they mean what they say when they profess the need to pay more attention to union members than politics.
9. Gee Poor widddle Dems,I'm sure they'll find a way around this like they always do.Don't have alot of sympathy for these losers!
10. I am a union member and in health care, one does not work 6 months out of the year, believe me, unless you choose to at no pay. They would work us 24-7, if they could get us to say yes. And some do say yes to far more hours than the unsuspecting public wants to know. That being said, I DO NOT vote as my union encourages me to vote, I DO believe my union has a very important function where I work, I am part of the negotiating team, and we fight for every dime we are paid. Without our union, health care workers would have to work for free, because there aren't many health care places out there who actually want to pay us for our knowledge and expertise. They rely heavily on our "compassion" and even heavier on guilt, as in "if you don't come in, we have nobody."
I do believe there are lots of union members who do not vote the union recommedations. Neither my DH or I vote what our unions preach.
11. This has got to be a healthy sign for the Democrats. Finally, they may get their act together and stand for something.
I would guess the unions would go back to them but the Dems will now have to work at it and that is a healthy sign. The pandering will be to the workforce and not pandering to illegals right to vote, etc. and catering to terrorists.
Wouldn't it be nice if Americans had a two party system? I voted Dem when I was younger and would still like to, but not at the expense of the yokels in charge of the Dems today.
12. Rae - if enough of you changed careers the healthcare industry would have to pay more money. Simple supply and demand. And even if you do not necessarily vote the way the union recommends, you can be sure your dues support the union preference.
13. Don't chortle too soon, guys. Both the AFL-CIO and the Change-to-Win alliance will be backing the same candidates -- Democrats. And while the AFL-CIO will continue to do its same dumb-ass stuff, the unions who really know how to organize and do politics, the Teamsters and the SEIU, have turned themselves loose on an unsuspecting world. Many other unions are going to join them. Look for that part of the labor movement to grow in numbers, money, and influence.
Katomar -- assuming you are in Washington, you only have the rate of pay you do because the union you refused to join and the Democrats got it for you. I'd say that's paying attention to you.
14. Oh... it was the UNION that got the home healthcare workers the just-over-the-minimum-wage pay scale they "enjoy?"
I WONDERED who "accomplished" that!
15. Who ... Me? I guess you would like to work for even less.
16. Unions have pretty much outlived their usefulness to society.
17. DOES THIS MEAN THAT THE DEM'S HAVE MOVED FURTHER LEFT THAN SOCIALIST UNIONS, INTO THOSE FECKLESS REACHES OF MARX?????
DO WE DARE ASK THE QUESTION OF DEM'S, IS IT CARL OR GROUCHO?
18. I pay 90% union dues but as a dissenting "non-member" of the SEIU I have no ability to vote in the union. Believe me, I would not be associated with those creeps unless I was forced to by Gary Locke. The only people unionized in this country in any significant numbers are government workers. Most of us, given a choice, would not choose to be associated with the SEIU or the ACSME. The Reds are in trouble and they know it.
19. JustCurious >> don't be a fool -- they will just import all the health care workers they need from the third world -- Phillipines and Pakistan are first in line -- that would really be great -- let osamma's boys infiltrate healthcare -- if they can't be readily imported > special schools will be set up - and then they will be brought here for final training - AT TAXPAYERS EXPENSE --
20. Attila >> Right about the Unionized gov workers -- the poor downtrodden widdle HARDWORKING UNION MEN (?????)-- being so victimized by 'BIG PUBLIC TAXPAYERS' -- 'the taxpayer monopoly' - give me (us) a few breaks
21. The vilest cartel we got going in this country is the dem party polititions + gov worker cartel exploiting the taxpayer >> and sending up so many smokescreens and constant spew of total BS -- look at those a-hole dem senators -- one disruption and strawman after another -- although there has been a slight slowdown after the London bombings -- BEWARE THE HILDABEAST
22. Bill, "they" are already doing that. South Africa is having a hard time filling nursing positions because US health facilities are taking many of the South African nurses.
23. Bill - 'JustCurious >> don't be a fool'
If the supply of workers is high the wages will go down. We agree. The real problem is that we demand more healthcare than we want to pay for. And most of the payments are hidden from the consumers, who tend to scream when they have to pay anything directly. The legal and illegal immigration can be restricted if the pols have the will, yet I am not holding my breath.
24. The SEIU has always been one of the more hard-left unions. I suspect this has more to do with the AFL-CIO not being radical enough for them than with the purported radicalization of the Democratic party.
25. The seasoned democrat will just play these new union factions off against the old factions and collect even more money.
26. Labor splits. Wait--labor does NOT split. What you heard was the pants of the fat labor bureaucrats that just split. The splitter is on break--no splitting allowed by a replacement worker splitter scab. Split to occur after a vote by rank & file splitees. Split day is a Saturday--double time wages for the splitter. So, we are at an impasse. Splitters want 10 years' severance, a job for life & a free Hummer. Greedy private management bosses say no Hummer. The split rages on. Seattle passes a journeyman splitter program--all city splits must be paid prevailing wage and have a crew of no less than 8 splitters and supervisors.
27. Here's a link to the SEIU's explanation of their decision:
http://www.seiu.org/media/7_25_05_disaffiliation.cfm
From this it appears that it's primarily a dispute over organizing tactics.
"SEIU and other unions have tried for 10 years to get the AFL-CIO to adopt changes that would unite the strength of millions more workers in each industry. It became clear on the eve of the AFL-CIO convention that the AFL-CIO was not prepared to change. AFL-CIO leaders adopted many of the words contained in Change To Win Coalition proposals but never agreed to adopt the strategies that have worked to build growing strength and unity for SEIU members."
Info on the "Change to Win Coalition" and their proposals can be found here: http://www.unitetowin.org/
28. Northern Coho: I worked in a closed shop union grocery store during college. The grocery chain I worked for had 3 union stores an 2 non-union stores. The union "journeyman checker" position paid $1.50 per hour less then at the non-union stores. Union representation does not mean better wages...It hasn't for about 50 years.
Also, the non-union stores had a matched 401(k). I got a pension. After 7 years at the store...I will get $62 per month from my pension at age 65. (This won't be inflation adjusted..it will be $62 at age 65). Had I put my $$ in the matched 401(k) I would have had an asset that I could have kept when I left. I estimate that I would have had over $30k in my 401(k). Had I just but my union dues in with a 50% match I would have contributed over $6k. I worked from there from 1992 to 1999...good times for the market.
The union didn't care about me...but they sure cared about that pension fund. Tons of influence there.
I had to pay about $50 per month in dues. I didn't see a union rep the entire time I worked there until 3 months before I left. That was just because I stopped paying my union dues when I knew I was about to quit and told them I had worked at that store for almost 7 years and had never seen a rep from the union the entire time. They sent someone in about two days later.
29. Hey, northern Coho:
I would join the union if they would poll members on pollitical contributions/decisions. I don't like my dues causes and nominees I don't support. I kind of like a choice on who I give money to. Hey, does that make me pro-choice? As for the great pay, it's a 24/7 job, bud, involving nursing, psychiatry, nutrition, companionship, and a whole host of other complicated things that required a highly trained skill set. Want to try it for $8.93 an hour?
30. Katomar -- No, I don't. The point, obviously, isn't that your pay is wonderful, it's that it isn't worse than it is. SEIU wants to raise your pay and benefits. You're only getting as much as the $8.93 because of SEIU and its lobbying effort with the public and the state politicians. If left to the people on this site, you wouldn't be getting that and, I suspect, there are some here who think you shouldn't be getting anything. Just ask them.
31. Northern Coho is a true-believer liberal who makes a stock liberal democrat statement about unions and wages in Washington State that is patently untrue.
Some limited fields of endeavor have increased employee wages and benefits through collective bargaining, but the majority of our economy employs people who receive wages based on market forces alone.
The "union argument" purports to say that business will only pay what they must in order to obtain labor which is true, but they ignore competition in the open market without which labor has no place to bargain. We do not live in the 19th or early 20th century any longer and wages today are determined more by market forces combined with some government control. Unions are artifices of socialism that directly interfere with market competition especially against our overseas competitors, and like all socialistic mechanisms, they severely inhibit economic growth. In the bygone days of guild-like craftsmanship union talk about quality meant something but today it is just talk. Unions more often retain incompetence and prohibit motivated excellence.
The union mentality ignores the fact that strong economies are competitive ones and they always produce higher across-the-board wages. Most industries and fields of employment in Washington State are non-union ones where unions NEVER had any part in affecting or influencing the wages or benefits of their employees. Unions are no longer useful or necessary unless one likes corruption and a stagnant economy.
32. Oh, Coho, how quickly we forget. Who was the person who saved the DDD funds from drastic cuts in the budget before the Gregoire budget? I bleieve his name was Rossi. I repeat, the reason I don't like unions is because I don't like ANYONE telling me how to think and who to vote for, and making me pay for it to boot!
Don't you get it? It's not a Democrat or Republican issue. It's supposed to be REPRESENTATION of the membership. Remember that old 'catch-phrase" taxation without representation?
33. This was fun to read about. Feuding leftists groups; it doesn't get any better. Just get out the popcorn, sit back, and watch.....
34. The Home Health Care Workers would be probably be better off scrapping the union and earning minimum wage themselves and keeping what they would have paid in union dues instead of paying it to the union.
Frankly, the those big labor guys just want the dues.
35. Realist,
Exactly, get out the popcorn, sit back, and watch......
Thanks.
36. cc,
I worked under union memberships for years (emphasis under), and supervised union employees,
and I believe that you do understand the mentality. Lazy, cynical socialist, and stupid.
Remember the biggest union in the world? Called the UNION of Soviet Socialist Republic (sic).
Similar to the American Civil (sic again) Liberties Union.
Sic enough yet? Around these people you will be one way or another.
37. Amused by liberals,
Yep to all of the above...
38. Hey, Northern Coho, tell us all what else the SEIU wants to do to strengthen our nation. Like getting voting rights for NON-CITIZENS, as in ILLEGAL ALIENS.
Yes, that's right, the Marxist president of the SEIU is ticked off that the AFL-CIO is not left enough for his union, and as such has split in order to continue to organize the ultimate Democrat voting bloc, undocumented aliens.
Tell us 'bout that.
39. Northern fish,
You say: "If left to the people on this site, you wouldn't be getting that [presumably a substandard wage] and, I suspect, there are some here who think you shouldn't be getting anything. Just ask them."
Your comments suggest that conservatives want health care workers to work for nothing. Your inability to cope with reality does not equate into a license to pretend the absurd, but that has never stopped you before. Nevertheless, for the record, we do not.
"Nursing, psychiatry, nutrition, companionship, and [the] whole host of other complicated things that require[d] a highly trained skill set" pay what they pay almost entirely because of market forces. Supply and demand, supply and demand.
Take econ 101 some time and read the text, or simply objectively look around you. Even though it is taught from a liberal socialist view in most colleges and universities, the fundamental principals are clear and unambiguous. I’m certain that you will find that if Katomar doesn't like his wages, he is free to find another line of work.
In a command (liberal socialist) economy, those like Katomar cannot, and unions practice liberal socialist economics.
40. Read all about the SEIU's leftist leadership and agenda.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=16415
41. Bullshit, Coho.
Your glorious SEIU does nothing for about 250 workers in my hospital because six- count 'em- SIX disgruntled members filed a clause that prohibits the rest of the members from bargaining with the hospital. You know what that means? NO raises or adjustments in bennies for the last two years. I have good friends who work there who can't get what they need because their union is completely useless when they need it the most. Hell, they can't even divest and bargain on their own, because your union heroes ramrodded a bill through WA legislature making it possible for the above-mentioned travesty to occur.
We have your glorious unions to thank for that.
Yes, unions were once necessary. Not anymore. Now they are fat pigs who bleed our economy dry and muscle themselves in on non-union shops in order to get a piece of the action. Your leaders are thugs and punks who take our money and leave us with squat while they sit fat, dumb and happy at senator's luncheons and laugh up their sleeves about promoting the cause of the American worker.
Peddle your shop steward BS somewhere else. I tried it and it stinks.
42. I have also observed that the unions disrespect their members all too often. They make it 'hard' to let the members see the books. They tell them half-truths. My sister, who is a teacher, told me that she's heard of fellow teachers getting their classrooms trashed when the union gets wind of anything they're doing that they don't agree with. I'm pleased to say that she SUCCESSFULLY sued the California Teachers Assn. (CA version of the WEA) for unfair dues collection practices.
43. My Goodness!
What will become of the Democrat party without the votes and support from:
1. Felons?
2. Illegal immigrants?
3. Unions?
That leaves just the Dead voters and the small fringe group from Freemont to vote for Ron Sims and the other liberal candidates in November.....
44. A few things.
Number one was the Dems worry about their support with the unions splitting the sheets. Ronald Reagan was endorsed by Teamsters and that was earthshaking in union doings. Bush recently tried to woo Teamsters with ANWR but the AFL-CIO stiff armed the whole thing endorsing Dems that opposed it. (environment over jobs) Perhaps, just PERHAPS some of the union leadership realizes it's about jobs. Real jobs.
Secondly, Hoffa has deep support in the Teamsters, whereas Sweeney has watched his support dwindle.
Could it be one union is going to fight for jobs where the other is going to continue endorsing politicians that strangle jobs through regulations? I hope the clean up that I've seen in my union is indicative of this.
45. Shaun, thanks for the link to the Frontpage article re SEIU. It helps explain the context of their recent announcement.
Meanwhile, there's a flap brewing over Hilary's recent speech: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/26/AR2005072601645.html
The theme running through all this is that some Dems want to steer hard left, which others want to just keep drifting slowly to the left. It will be interesting to see which faction wins.
46. Fu#k unions and the liberal democrat jacka$$es they ride in on.
Let em commit AlGoricide.
Best thing for them really. Go for it!
47. I agree--unions have outlived and abused their original noble purposes. perhaps they are needed in hazardous fields like contamination cleanup or mining, but i may even doubt that;
i guess they were o.k. when my Grandpa worked in the famous Chicago (cattle) Stockyards early in the century; however, they--like any bureaucracy--grew into a fat, lazy political monster; protecting the lazy; quashing the ambitious; allowing organized crime to pervade their ranks;
too bad--they could have been great for America--even in the 21st century, but they blew it themselves with greedy demands and outlandish rules;
union members: look to within for your failures, not to the public at large;
48. Will this become what it was like back before and after WW2 where the AFL and CIO hassled with each other for representation? Even with their merger in 1950 they continued battling until John L. Lewis died. Then they decided in 1954 to do battle among themselves as to jurisdictional work. Through the times since they have created more levels of defined work conditions ie, 'if you want me to do this work you'll have to pay me more money because I need to climb a 6 foot ladder. The new contract says dangerous work requires harness over four feet and a 20% risk factor over scale. And don't forget the sani-kan.
The point is that neither labor alliance is able to change even though they make their claim. Their change is not that of the economy (unless its a pay increase) but greater membership. If they were interested in real change they would learn to adjust and be flexible in their pay scales and their regulated job conditions. They wish to be paid @ $40 plus per hour which is $83,200 including benefits without employer burden. So this guy costs you close to $100 g's. And you supply the power tools and accessories for him to do his job. Even a truck to take him on your gasoline to get to work. Now at each level he says I'm not going to get less than that guy even though he performs a more menial task than another man. But since he is a journeyman they must be paid the same. So why try to improve your skills beyond just being a follower. And after all you know that San Francisco gave their members a large % increase so why shouldn't we. After all it's one for all and all for one. That's the unions favorite slogan. But your not included unless you are a member who marches to the tune of the union. Who is included are the union hierarchy from the locals on up and I bet Sweeney and Hoffa are probably being paid 10% over scale like the local B.A. And I bet they don't get a truck to drive to work. And really as I said before, their looking for change so they can get a raise and maybe a truck to drive. That's the only change they know. And it will come about by increased membership. Watch this state's governmental work force take on the same scenario that I described above.
49. The unions have needed a good house cleaning for along time!!