LEFTIST PINHEADS, including the P-I reporter who wrote the self-parody of a lead to this article, are besides themselves with rage that somebody wants to take the vote away from illegal immigrants
An initiative aimed at halting voting rights and other benefits to illegal aliens in Washington was derided last night as an "anti-immigrant" movement that threatens the "soul of America."I'll punt for now on the question whether Martin Ringhofer's Initiative 343 is the best way to defend the citizen's franchise to vote, but defend our franchise we must. Especially when one of the citizen-bashing LEFTIST PINHEADS quoted in the article is King County Councilman and Former Black Panther Larry Gossett, who is proud that
in the aftermath of the controversial gubernatorial election, the County Council narrowly defeated a resolution that would require proof of citizenship for voters.Meanwhile, Thurston County Auditor Kim Wyman has asked the federal government to identify any non-citizens on her county's voting rolls. Anybody care to bet whether Dean Logan will do the same? How about a bet whether the County Council could even pass a resoluton calling on Logan to ask the feds to identify the non-citizens on the voter rolls? Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at July 22, 2005 12:42 AM | Email This
I won't make any wagers with you Stefan. I highly doubt Dean "Mission Statement" Logan would do anything that makes this much sense... Besides he can't be bothered with silly things like protecting the voter rolls from illegal voters. He has to prepare for his trip to Beverly Hills!
Posted by: Joe on July 22, 2005 02:14 AMSuper, we've got black panthers on the council (only reason it's "former" is that they ceased to exist). (eye roll) What next...any admitted Marxists, Stalinists, Leninists, Sandinistas...??
Posted by: Danny on July 22, 2005 04:49 AMOperative word--"illegal." First act on our soil is what--breaking the law--trespassing. You would not want someone in your house, uninvited, sneaking in the basement window. So why is this o.k.? To give such a person a right or power to influence the lives of legal tax-paying citizens is both insulting and a prostituting of our hard-fought voting and citizenship rights.
In my view, any politician promoting illegal alien voting (or any benefits) cares not about his/her LEGAL citizen-constituents and should be treated like a disloyal, unpatriotic panderer in a back alley selling drugs for a quick buck to ANYONE in his own neighborhood.
Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on July 22, 2005 06:35 AMThis is not a race thing--it's remembering one's history and what THEY advocated so as not to repeat history's mistakes. Just like the SDS and other violent radicals.
Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on July 22, 2005 06:43 AMI think your suggestion is the real reason that CG is against RealID - they will have no excuse of registering people that cannot show proof of US citizenship.
Danny - you forgot KKK in your list, after all we have that in the US senate!
Posted by: fred on July 22, 2005 07:36 AMCitizenship AND ID so that you can vote.
Posted by: Danny on July 22, 2005 07:37 AMIllegal entry to the US is not only a threat to our election process and thus the very basis of our Republic. It poses a very real physical threat.
It is the one area where the the Federal Gov't from GWB on down has failed, I just hope not catasrophically.
Posted by: JCM on July 22, 2005 07:47 AMIn America we don't believe in the Lowest Common Denominator. All people are not equal. Some are stupid and lazy with no pride. Lib's want all to be that way so they can "feel" better by taking away rights from those of us that have worked our butts off and are proud to be Americans and giving it to those that don't. They must be stopped. I can no longer sit and watch the country that I love be turned into Canada or France or any other dying socialist country.
Posted by: kme on July 22, 2005 08:14 AMWhat's WRONG with these people???? We MUST keep talking sense while they spin off the stool with their silliness....
Posted by: Michele on July 22, 2005 08:22 AMKim Wyman for SOS! Or at least KC Elections Director!
Posted by: Michele on July 22, 2005 08:25 AMI like your pun...
"spin off the 'stool' with their silliness...."
Here's the deal: American citizens get to vote in American elections, just as German citizens get to vote in German elections. No body gets to cross the lines.
King County is full of a bunch of raving lunatics.
Posted by: L. H. Smith on July 22, 2005 08:47 AMThose who watched the election challenge on TVW- recall Kim was cool as a cucumber on the stand- even while explaining errors that happened in Thurston in years past...as with most other counties- Thurston didn't need to do a huge cover up and pile on a mountain of lies while hiding the error. KC holds the patent on that machine.
Unfortunately there are less than 5 other elected officials in Thurston who should not be replaced.
I once called Maria "CANT-let-you-drill-for-new-domestic-oil-sources-in-ANWAR-even-though-I-claim-to-want-to -lssen-our-dependence-on-foreign-oil-WELL"s office and complained that she was trying to pull the exact same thing. Hope she got the message. Pls, stop the leftist insanity!
Posted by: Michele on July 22, 2005 09:24 AMWhen you the term is "illegal alien," it begs the question: "what part of illegal don't you understand?"
Posted by: JCM on July 22, 2005 09:25 AMFor the moment I join Stefan in doing the punt thing on whether the election-reform portions of I-343 are on balance the best way to do that; although I give Martin Ringhofer credit for putting in the effort to put together a serious package and go thru the filing exercise.
But at least one thing in I-343 that it would IMO have been prudent to leave out: The change to Chapter 74.04 RCW. Although I am not an attorney, having dabbled in initiative details from time to time over the last few years I wonder if I-343 is at risk of violating the single-subject rule; i.e.: Election reform and government benefits feel like they are or at least could be different subjects.
Even if I-343 passes the single-subject test, it would be best for election reform initiatives to stick exclusively to election reform, and not wander into other areas; especially something as contentious as government benefits. While there is a long list of government benefits that I agree illegal immigrants should NOT automatically get, remember that we want to be careful about blanket prohibitions in this area. Example (that I have used before in debates on this subject): What if the 10-year old born-outside-the-US son of an illegal immigrant runs over his foot with a lawn mover and is in danger of bleeding to death. Are we going to deny him emergency room health care ??.. I don't think so. And emergency health care is not the only area: Just where we reasonably draw the line on benefits to illegals is a subject that needs careful consideration; an absolute prohibition is not going to fly.
Methow Ken
Posted by: Methow Ken on July 22, 2005 10:26 AMOh, and thanks for helping out on that one, Cantwell.
Posted by: Sid on July 22, 2005 10:40 AMI do not think too many people would refuse help in your example. The point of disagreement comes on whether after help is provided should they be deported. The libs say no - that would discourage them asking for help (as if that is bad). For some reason tax payers need to have the risk foisted upon them while the person who does the illegal act has no risk. They just go back into society.
Posted by: fred on July 22, 2005 10:55 AMMethow--Danny's right. As for the illegals' TRUE med emergencies, MAYBE allow on a case basis. However, not having illegals stops this problem to a large extent. The ER's are crowded with routine cold sniffles of illegals, as well as extra interpreters. They 'crowd out' the available supply of resources for legal, paying clients. How is THAT fair & just to a society?
Cutting bene's will work. Dry wells do not attract drinkers. They will go back same way they came. No need to 'round up' as some critics assert.
As for the $10 head lettuce or rotting crops in field fears, what about parolees, non-violent prisoners, convicts, welfare recipients and other seasonal youth corps? The businesses, though I support them, are pushing all the other hidden social costs (like schools) on their neighbors, counties and state by hiring illegals.
Some of these other groups can "work off" their debts, sentences and tuitions. Not forced labor, just a quid pro quo to society for their costs they imposed on society by their choices. Remember the CCC corps? Everybody won--government, industry and people.
Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on July 22, 2005 11:13 AMI had to take my (legal, but non-citizen) immigrant wife to the DOL office last Saturday to get her a learner's permit. If not for her honesty, she could have registered to vote.
But the democrats don't want her vote anyway. The dishonest ones are the ones that vote the way they want. It is a sick, symbiotic relationship in which the illegals vote for the 'rats and the 'rats vote to give benefits to the illegals. And the cycle reaches such proportions that it makes it almost impossible for legal voters to break it.
As somebody who has played by the rules and spent a small fortune and lots of time to legally bring my wife here, I hope we "disenfranchise" every last one of the illegals. In fact, I'd love to see us deport them all.
That "brand of bigotry ... threatens to relegate not just immigrants, but families who have been in this country for generations, to second-class citizens ..."
Uh, this initiative is about non-citizens. Being treated like second-class citizens is too good for them, by definition, because they are not citizens.
Babies born to illegals, tourists and H1-B workers should not be entitled to this sacred privilege.
Posted by: Mr. Grabbit on July 22, 2005 11:23 AMI think (?) Canada finally got wise on this one; things are not what they were in the 1900's; no suicide bombers in 1900 to my memory;
Those libs who want to make the Constitution 'fluid' strangely do NOT want to make THIS 'fluid' to the times; why not? after 9-11, all bets off--we have the absolute right to control our country's visitors and wannabes; we always had that right, but now times are different; we owe the world nothing after being bombed; we are not a dumping ground for the world's offal;
Also, my broken record again: according to John Fund (voting expert) a Mexican's own voter card in HIS country is VERY secure and nearly impossible to counterfeit; third world kicks our arse again; embarrassing & intolerable for the USA! Currently exploring Planet Mars, yet no voter integrity in Mars, USA;
http://www.sos.state.ga.us/elections/elections/voter_information/default.htm#Voters%20are%20required%20to%20present%20identification%20at%20their%20polling%20place%20prior%20to%20casting%20their%20ballot.
Posted by: F451 on July 22, 2005 11:52 AM"This measure would require every candidate for elective state office to pass the tenth grade Washington assessment of student learning (WASL) test, and to file an affidavit so certifying before filing for office.
This measure would require, beginning with the 2006 elections, every candidate for elective state office to pass the tenth grade Washington assessment of student learning (WASL) test, and to present an affidavit so certifying when filing for office. The secretary of state would make arrangements with the superintendent of public instruction to identify a location where the test would be administered to prospective candidates. The candidates would pay the fee for administration of the test."
Hmm. Is Hansler a disgruntled teacher?
Why compromise about any aspect of voting rights? Compromise with whom, and for what reason?
Also from my perspective in a state bureaucracy, Illegals are unconcerned when showing SS cards and Alien Registration cards that they readily admit are bogus, obtained out of country (to the south)and furthermore report casually that all or nearly all of the 20+ workers at the landscaping company are also illegals with phony documents. No fear, they know the state will ignore the violation, continue to do business with them as if they were native born. It is no concern to state government.
Almost like the sanctuary cities, eh?
Posted by: Bwanafriend on July 22, 2005 01:14 PMYou are so right. As you well know the real problem is that the liberals would all have a sh*t fit over
damage done to their sacred cow social programs funded largely by this anti-federalist imbroglio, and
this would certainly re-elect liberals. One hand washes the other and so on . . .
A Gordian knot.
We've got this co-dependency thing going with them big-time. Unions don't want to make legal entry easier, because that would open the floodgates to lower-wage workers. Businesses that depend on IA's cheaper labor don't want us to crack down too hard on them because then they'd be at the mercy of the Unions. It's a classic Mexican standoff (pun intended).
Posted by: starboardhelm on July 22, 2005 02:51 PMOf course the are working for low wages, especially in ag, etc. But I am aware of them by the droves in the construction industry making $20++ per hour. Not your typical low end wage.
Posted by: Bwanafriend on July 22, 2005 04:58 PMOf course they are sacred cows but we must not give up frustrated. Sacred cows make good hamburger. Keep pressing on. The socialist wackos never sleep. But they can be beat.
Witness Welfare reform. Washington went from 97000+ down to around 50000> Not good enough but a great start.
Posted by: Bwanafriend on July 22, 2005 05:02 PMMichael Scheele of Seattle, a naturalized U.S. citizen who was born in Japan, said I-343 upholds valid elections, national security and fiscal responsibility.
"Why do we want to reward lawbreakers -- illegal immigrants -- by allowing them to receive government services unchallenged?" he asked, calling it an unfair burden on taxpayers........
How on earth could ANY citizen of this state or country - approve of illegal immigrant voting rights or benefit rights? Every vote cast by an illegal immigrant erases a vote cast by a US citizen!
Would anyone wish to have Mexico or Canada or Europe choose our candidates for office? Or approve or deny our initiatives and referendums?
If these citizens, here illegally from other countries, were that savy in making *our* election decisions for us...why wouldn't they be doing it in their own country?
We are talking about several hundred thousand immigrants here illegally! There are an estimated 10 MILLION ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS currently in this country...If only 1% of them register to vote - that's 100,000 illegal votes generated in our country! If 1% of the estimated 200,000 illegal immigrants (low estimate) in our state register to vote - that's 2000 illegal votes!....Gregoire won the election by only 129 votes!
There is absolutely NOTHING *kind* about allowing illegals to enter and live in our country! The Liberals are not doing these people any favors by creating a cycle of slavery with them here in the US! If the illegal immigrants would have simply applied for visa's or citizenship - chances are they would have been accepted and would be here legally - to enjoy a wide choice of employment with wages and benefits! They would NOT be able to vote - but the Liberal Democrats wouldn't be wagging that carrot on a stick for them - so they wouldn't think about it anyway!
Larry Gossett is a racist who obviously approves of the slavery style labor the illegal immigrants are forced into here!
Posted by: Deborah on July 22, 2005 08:37 PMImmigrants, legal or illegal, are not CITIZENS.
What is our government doing to safeguard the CITIZENS?
The honor system. If you say you are a citizen - ok, we'll trust you. If we find out you lied - oh well, have another government handout on us. Just don't get caught next time.
If illegal immigrants can obtain the same opportunities and government services as citizens, what is the advantage of being a citizen?
Posted by: SouthernRoots on July 22, 2005 09:30 PMI agree wholeheartedly. Nevertheless, the LIBERAL mentality is thoroughly ingrained in our culture. I believe that many conservatives' impatience with the Bush administration is based on a lack of focused perspective about how screwed up our culture really is. It’s about hearts and minds that have been lost to or at least seriously compromised by egalitarian hogwash where “unlimited liberty meets chaos.” Our nation is truly fighting itself. Federal bureaucracies are full of liberal Democrat Communists keeping the liberal faith while our President weathers attacks no matter how successfully he leads our country. Meanwhile the states are all lined up at the trough, and the dance goes on. Progress is being made, but fast enough?
THIS ISSUE IS NOT BRAIN SURGERY
It should be considered pedestrian. Anyone who believes that illegal aliens should have the right to vote in America is –by definition- Anti-American, and Democrats everywhere believe that such a thing is somehow good for us. Why not remove obstacles to permit HIV/AIDS into the blood supply as well, that would make us all more equal? After all, by this rationale we should all be tolerant and uniformly represented. Liberalism creeps through the ranks of the Republican Party as well and dilutes leadership and resolve about issues of this type that would otherwise be easy to resolve. The mere idea that anyone except illegals themselves are concerned let alone enraged that anyone else “wants to take the vote away from illegal immigrants” is beyond reasonably acceptable subject for discussion and signal to profound social infection; but here it is.
The only way that anyone (let alone a dimwit like Witz) can utter the word compromise about this issue is if they are completely corrupted with moral relativism.
It appears that the only hope we have is if we are seriously attacked again within our national borders. All it would take for that to happen is another Democrat administration. Might happen anyway given the liberal stupidity rampant in the halls of power. In a REAL disaster -especially with liberals in charge- the only things left are our individual wits and our individual right to keep and bear arms. I don’t know about anyone else here but mine are all in very good working order. It lends clear explication to Goldwater’s “extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.”
Other countries are more than happy to have us bankroll everything, especially the social costs THEY REFUSE to give THEIR OWN CITIZENS. All countries by now have had plenty of time to get their s--- in order, in my view. This is based on history, trade and the trillions the US has given for development. Time for the permanent training wheels of US foreign aid to come off & the foreign country recipient kid learn to stumble & ride on his own!
Comes time for YOUR grandparents or you or your kids to use some U.S. social services, will there be any left for you--the payor of many years? That's what politicans do not address for fear of being bigots or 'insensitive.' They miss the point. Who deserves benefits first--citizens or 'visitors?'
Think of it this way: a ship's life raft has only so many spaces. How do you choose who goes? Cabin customer (taxpayers) ? Ship staff (politicans and bureaucrats)? or Illegal stowaways?
Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on July 23, 2005 01:04 PMHe was very matter of fact about I 343's objective as an initiative to guarantee that ONLY US citizens vote in our elections! Yet - he was very sympathetic to the illegal aliens who are here now - stuck in a cycle of virtual slavery by those who employ them and who use them as their cash-cow cause-du-jour!
His proposition is common sense. And his compassion for those stuck in the cycle of slavery due to their illegal status is sincere. What on earth have the liberal Democrats done for us as Citizens or for the illegal aliens..other than oppress both of us and extort one group to pick apples, be their low priced nannies and gardeners and to vote illegally for their party....What a sham!
I think when the people of this state see what has been going on between illegal aliens and the liberal Democrats at so many levels...they will be outraged!
I 343 is definitely an important initiative and deserves the same -if not more- interest than the No New Gas Tax initiative! We are talking about our right as ONLY US citizens to vote in our country.
Posted by: Deborah on July 23, 2005 11:57 PMJimmy and Deborah,
It’s true. Liberals’ reckless disregard for our futures and the futures of honest immigrants can only prevail if we do not both stand up and say NO and then make it stick!
THE REAL ISSUE IS ALL TOO CLEAR. There are actually only two ways to go here:
1)One is to pretend that our national sovereignty and state integrity is no longer important and “illegals” should be allowed to vote here so long as they support the liberals who ***pay lip service*** to them as racial items or social pawns.
2)The other is to insist that we are still a sovereign nation and a state that should be composed of laws not personalities, and that voting in America counts for something other than a scam to keep liberal Democrats in power by firther immersing ourselves in radical socialism.
The key words in the PI article that give the anti-initiative side away entirely for any honest intelligent reader are the words of Eric Ward when he says the initiative "does nothing to address immigration reform . . . What it does is build on people's frustrations with a system that's broken."
REALLY? . . . WHO’S FRUSTRATIONS THERE WARD BOY?
Eric Ward regurgitates a stock liberal line of tangled pseudo-reasoning based purely on scurrilous emotional appeals. Someone surely explained to him that Initiative I-343 is not supposed to address immigration reform directly, it is to require that a voter supply proof of citizenship, because it is illegal for illegal aliens to vote, AND IT DAMNED WELL SHOULD BE. What could be more clear and unambiguous? Nevertheless, doing so makes too much sense for liberals whose motivations have nothing to do with the interests of immigrants (illegal or otherwise).
How can enforcing the law possibly build on people's frustrations with a system that's broken, if the disorder is caused by failing to enforce it?
ONLY if liberals speciously change the subject and pretend that the whole issue is one of hate, bigotry, and racism in order to vilify those who speak the truth about our essential need to establish and maintain our national and state integrity.
SHOP AND COMPARE--YA JUST GOTTA LOVE IT.
Initiative I-343 Martin Ringhofer said the initiative is about “U.S. citizenship status,” and the “serious problem with illegal aliens that needs to be addressed."
Anti - Initiative I-343 In contrast, Ward and Harris discussed the initiative by referring to an "anti-immigrant" movement that threatens the "soul of America, part of a national effort to make immigrants a scapegoat by those uncomfortable with diversity,” and generally claimed that “critics, troubled by what they say are the initiative's racial overtones, . . . being driven by a deeply cynical anti-immigrant [oh gee they must have forgot -illegal alien immigrant once again] movement that's working to divide our nation along racial and ethnic lines." Further, “[T]hat "brand of bigotry ... threatens to relegate not just immigrants, but families who have been in this country for generations, to second-class citizens (“generations” means as little as one day because it refers to anyone who has offspring born in America and second-class citizens means scofflaws treated as scofflaws)."
The liberals who exploit such cynical tactics in order to castigate any who oppose their cynical game plan are the very same liberals who exploit the futures and fortunes of mass numbers of immigrants (especially illegal ones) solely in order to gain partisan advantages for their failing policies. These liberals are truly the movement that threatens the "soul of America." One of abject bigotry, cynical opportunism, division amongst and between people of all otherwise irrelevant varieties, offering open opportunities for terrorism, fiscal calamities, and social collapse.
Nice work liberals Ward and Harris. Another prescription for disaster from the nihilists who just keep on giving . . . the certain promise of enslavement through deceitful emptiness.
SUPPORT INITIATIVE I-343
Posted by: Amused by liberals on July 24, 2005 12:31 PMAnyone who plays the race card about those who support this initiative is being narrow minded, bigoted themselves, stupid or just a useful idiot for special interests.. Let the ignorant fools from the left spout off - it will only increase the resolve of those who support this initiative to preserve integrity in this state - whose legislators are too cowardly with their politically correct stench to hold illegal inhabitants accountable for their actions and no more feeding at the trough from legitimate taxpayers.
SUPPORT I-343 !
Posted by: KS on July 24, 2005 03:44 PMWell stated!
And KS -
"Anyone who plays the race card about those who support this initiative is being narrow minded, bigoted themselves, stupid or just a useful idiot for special interests.."
You are correct! I-343 has NOTHING to do with *Race*....but EVERYTHING to do with *Citizenship* and voting! Anyone who would try to suggest that illegal immigrants are of a particular minority race are themselves racist! Our country is made up of citizens of ALL races - legally entitled to vote! No *race* of citizens in our country are prohibted from voting. In fact, with respect to voting in our country - citizenship trumps the race card everytime!
No patriotic citizen of this country would want or allow a non-citizen to choose their President, Governor, Initiatives, etc...
I am so glad to see another important and extremely relevant initiative in the works in our state!
Posted by: Deborah on July 24, 2005 07:51 PMI'm sure they can dig into Sharks archives and find out exactly how many copies of their utility bill they're gonna have to provide...
Posted by: Julie on July 24, 2005 08:19 PMStefan--
Thank you for remembering to use all capitals when referring to the LEFTIST PINHEADS!!! I have a distinct reason for typing it in all capitals which I will share some day.
I would really like to see "Amused by Liberals" change his ID to "Amused by LEFTIST PINHEADS". I don't really see the huge problems we face as a Liberal/Conservative thing. It is more about LEFTIST PINHEADS against all the rest of us. They just masquerade as Democrats and Liberals but have a very, very narrow view of things in their Utopian fantasy world. LEFTIST PINHEADS have absolutely ZERO tolerance for differing viewpoints and hate diversity. "Screw Rainbows" is their reality. They pretend to not be bothered by people like me but I know exactly how to get them to go ballistic. LEFTIST PINHEADS are oh so serious and oh so self-righteous. There Achilles Heel is............ NO SENSE OF HUMOR!!
David Brooks had these Seattle-brand LEFTIST PINHEADS pegged perfectly in his book, "BOBO's in Paradise". Know what a BOBO is??
It's a Bourgeois Bohemian!! That's what these A$$HOLES are. There trot around downtown Seattle in the middle of summer in their REI and Patagonia gear looking like they are waiting for a f*cking Glacier to tear down 5th Avenue!!!!
They are fools....and their biggest problem is they don't know how foolish they are!
I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkkkkkkkk!
Posted by: Mr. Cynical on July 25, 2005 09:39 PMWelcome back! Heh....
Posted by: Deborah on July 25, 2005 10:46 PMCouncilor Reagan Dunn sent Dean Logan a letter today on non-citizen voters.
July 25, 2005
Dean Logan
Director
King County Elections
500 4th Ave, Room 553
Seattle, WA 98104
Dear Mr. Logan:
Due to the recent inconsistencies in King County Elections, I request that you do your best to purge the voter lists of non-citizen voters. It has been brought to our attention that there may be non-citizens who have registered to vote in King County when applying for driver's licenses or social services. These names must be removed from the voter lists.
I know that your office is unable to investigate the citizenship status of registered voters without a formal voter registration challenge being made by another registered voter. Because of this, I would ask you to please contact Citizenship and Immigration Service (CIS) and request that they help you purge King County voter registrations.
The CIS database may be a source that would help the county identify non-citizens who are registered to vote. Thurston County has asked CIS to help them clean their voter lists and King County should do the same. We must make sure that our elections are honest and only citizens are allowed to vote. Thank you for your consideration in this matter.
Sincerely,
Reagan Dunn
Now....
What the heck do we do with the 11 million illegals who are now in our country? Can we offer a strict amnesty program? I hesitate to do this unless our borders get secure. But - we DO need to document these people somehow and we need the ability to weed out the dangerous criminal element among them..
One way to inspire illegals to try for amnesty is to get tough on our laws. Don't just deport them....fine them first! Charge their employers too! Can you imagine how much revenue that would generate? They are coming here for our money! Take it away from them until it hurts!
I-343 is the beginning - but we need to have some solid ideas for dealing with the illegal aliens in our country now. The lack of serious discussion about the subject is what gives the liberals power in their rhetoric. They try to stop any dialogue on the subject of illegals because they know once the subject is brought out into the open a solution will arise and there goes their cash-cow!
That's why any talk of illegal aliens is immediately met with a cry of racism from the liberal left! They want to shame us into silence with their false accusations! It's worked for far too long! Now the illegals are not just in our pocketbooks, not just bringing disease to our childrens schools...they are voting in our elections!
It's time to talk about this.
Posted by: Deborah on July 25, 2005 11:13 PMToday, King County Councilman Reagan Dunn wrote Dean Logan to do likewise.
From what has been uncovered in Arizona, California, Florida, and elsewhere, some counties are running 30%-50% non-citizens registered to vote. Note: (1) non-citizens include illegal aliens that entered our border without immigrating [illegal trespassers]; (2) legal immigrants who immigrated legally and hold a permanent resident green card; (3) others who are inside our borders who are not US citizens.
Let us say that in Thurston County ICE responds with a list of names of non-citizens who are registered to vote amounting to 5% of the 140,000 registered voters in Thurston County. That would be up to 7,000 non-citizens who likely voted in the primary and general election. Registering to vote, and voting, by a non-citizen, are each a felony punishable by $10,000 fine and 5 years in prison. In Thurston County alone, that would be a ready source of $210,000,000 of revenue, if only 5% are non-citizens.
At the State Level, for 3,000,000 registered voters, that would amount to 150,000 non-citizen voters and a ready source of $91,000,000,000.
This revenue would fund a lot of improvements in our transportation systems.
This revenue would fund a first rate AMNESTY Program. Didn’t Chris Gregoire collect from the Tobacco manufacturers to fight use of Tobacco? Or was that just a scheme to collect a lot of money for the state?
I support an AMNESTY Program as an adjunct to passage of I-343. There are no greater minds anywhere starting with Stefan and all those who faithfully read and post on soundpolitics.com.
Let us collaborate on this site to come up with an AMNESTY PLAN we can all work for together.
It's like a sold-out baseball game. Just because you have a flood of people entering a hole in a fence, does that mean the baseball park must now be forced to pass on kicking the non-paying cheaters out? Sheer numbers of offenders do not make something right that was always wrong.
Who's to say that these people will return after their time is up? I don't mind guestworkers for industry and farms, but they can't use that system to get a short cut in line and approved. Guestworkers need to be ientified with tamper-proof sophisticated cards like Mexican voters' cards with prints, pix, holograms etc etc
Don't forget, folks--it's never only 'the worker.' It's always more family members in the wings also skating in on his pass and foot in the door. Take an amnesty number and always double or triple it for reality. Politicians ignore this. Social costs are unbearable with all the extra non-payers here for a free ride. How is that fair the the taxpaying communities bearing those medical & social costs?
Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on July 26, 2005 11:36 AMI understand your feelings. I said: work on an "AMNESTY PLAN" we can all work for together.
We either leave it to the politicians, who will most assuredly give you a plan we won't like; or we can work together on a plan that we believe will work.
Rather then say, it can't be done; let's formulate one with components that we can agree on.
AMNESTY does not = carte blanche by any means.
Put on your thinking hat. List components of a plan you feel MUST be included in that plan.
If enough of us formulate enough components, we'll have better odds of ending up with a plan that we can live with.
I completely agree with your assessment of the risks and the downside of an Amnesty program! You are right on all counts. We simply cannot reward people who have entered our country illegally. It would not be fair to those who went through everything involved with becoming *legal* immigrants. It certainly isn't fair to the US citizens who have had to pay and will continue to have to pay for social services for these people who are here illegally!
What concerns me most - is having 11 million people on our country illegally - right now - and NO ideas on how to deal with them. Having NO discussion.....basically allowing them to suck our social resources, our tax dollars and jobs dry -while they breed like rabbits! And while we are silent on the matter - the Liberal Democrats are busy ushering in more across the border and extending rights and privileges to them that even *legal* immigrants do not enjoy! (like voting?)
It's beyond treasonous to have any Political party or any US citizen for that matter - allowing non-citizens of legal or illegal status, to vote in our nation's elections! It's insane that we are actually dealing with something this absurd! Boggles the mind......
It's a vicious cycle! The Democrats are holding up our nation's ability to stop the illegals from entering - the Democrats are extending social benefits to the illegals at taxpayer expense - the Democrats are preventing the police from using their position as the first line of defense against intruders by neutering their ability to ask questions about immigration status. - the Democrats are preventing any serious discussion about solutions for this mess by crying foul with the race card everytime the subject is brought up....The Democrats are doing all of this for the votes and the support from people who are not legally allowed to vote for or support them!
The only way to stop this cycle is to come up with some ideas on how to deal with and what to do with the illegal immigrant population of our country...or even just our state!
Posted by: Deborah on July 26, 2005 09:02 PMThis must be taken out of the Democrat's hands completely! They have created a conflict of interest under the guise of compassion for illegal aliens (undocumented immigrants...ewwww!)..when all they actually want from them is their illegal votes and their pathetic soapbox excuse to take our money!
Posted by: Deborah on July 26, 2005 09:11 PM
It's much worse then you think. George W Bush and the GOP are on the same page with the Democrats on this one. The only way to fix this problem is for us to implement I-343, prosecute, and DEPORT the illegal aliens.
See: http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:GO7rTn3m5aUJ:www.washtimes.com/national/20041110-123424-5467r.htm+amnesty+for+illegal+aliens&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
Bush revives bid to legalize illegal aliens
By Bill Sammon
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
President Bush yesterday moved aggressively to resurrect his plan to relax rules against illegal immigration, a move bound to anger conservatives just days after they helped re-elect him.
The president met privately in the Oval Office with Sen. John McCain to discuss jump-starting a stalled White House initiative that would grant legal status to millions of immigrants who broke the law to enter the United States.
The Arizona Republican is one of the Senate's most outspoken supporters of expanding guest-worker programs and has introduced his own bill to offer a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants.
Geeze!
It seems like our 2 party system keeps ping-ponging us ahead - with every term - towards some bizarre socialism! When the liberals are in power - the people are horrified at the loss of morality, income and civil rights and vote them out (if there isn't any fraud going on in the election process)..then - when the conservatives get in power - they choose to become impotent under the guise of some silly *civilized* attitude that they simply cannot be too aggressive in the face of those terrible liberals..so they end up giving up more of our rights or completely ignoring what the citizens of this country want!
What the heck is going on? It's like a game that's being played out back and forth between the Dems and the Republicans term after term...and it's getting really old!
Bush needs to get a friggin backbone and start listening to the true citizens of this country! ...not the 11 million *illegals* that probably made up a good portion of the Dems voterbase!
Repeat offenders? Shoot them. Screw PC.
Posted by: ERNurse on July 26, 2005 10:28 PM