Friday's Seattle Times editorial, "Antidote to terrorism"
The work of the G-8 summit in Gleneagles, Scotland, is the best antidote to the mindless violence of yesterday's murderous assault on London commuters. Uniting to fight poverty and disease pushes back hard against terrorism.Fighting poverty and disease are worthwhile in their own right. But there's zero evidence that the motivations of those who murdered and maimed hundreds of London commuters had anything to do with malaria or debt forgiveness. The antidote to the Times gauzy ignorance was on the Times own op-ed page. An alumnus of an Indonesian Islamist school, now a professional journalist, writes about his former classmates "School for terror: why some choose the path of the bomber". Nothing there about poverty, except for the lack thereof:
Most of my fellow alumni are more or less like me. They are successful in the secular world.Not unlike Osama bin-Ladin, Muhammad Atta, John Walker Lindh, the upper middle class cultists of the Aum Shin Rikyo, the Manson Family or the Nazis. These people are little concerned with poverty but enchanted with a fanatical death cult and the perverted sense of power that it gives them.
The Times editorial writers need to get out more. Or at least read their own op-ed page.
Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at July 09, 2005 08:16 AM | Email ThisIt is the re-establishment of the 12th century Caliphate. Infidels (all non-muslims) will acceptable dhimmitude or die. Heretics (sunni muslims) will die.
No negotiating points, no bribes, no peaceable exchange of ideas, nothing will dissuade the islamofacists from this goal. NOTHING!!!!
Get used to it.
We have a binary solution set. Submit or Win. No inbetween, no middle ground.
Anyone who suggests otherwise is either an idiot, or a collaborator working actively for the islamofacists to win.
It really is that black or white.
Slavery or Victory.
Choose wisely.
Posted by: JCM on July 9, 2005 08:27 AM1. either an idiot, or
2. a collaborator working actively (or passively) for the islamofacists
THIS WAR IS HEARTS AND MINDS FIRST - SUBSTANCE AND MATERIAL LATER
Many liberals by pretending to hold the middle (so called nuanced intellectiual, or kindly and morally superior) ground are passively aiding the enemy without having to pay the price of social recognition for their treason.
They are very easy to identify. They are the con-artists who accuse Republicans of accusing them of not being patriotic. NEWSFLASH LIBERALS: If you question our administration and our troops in time of war - you are giving aid and comfort to the enemy.
They are no better than the terrorists because they provide the exact public relations aid and comfort the terrorists need to be successful.
Posted by: Amused by liberals on July 9, 2005 08:59 AM"Poverty doesn’t cause terrorism, its repressed libido. Kindness and understanding are the key here" says U.W. Professor Amy Firbury. Captured insurgent Muhamma doobie doobie says, "Instead of being a religious teacher of idiotic nonsense, today I'm being a terrorist to promote and perpetrate idiotic nonsense. Now I'm locked in here being tortured by George Bush.”
In a candid interview Doobies says "To be precise, the majority of Muslims lead secular lives, except when they are being religious and visa versa unless they are being both at the same time. Secular to get money, religious to get laid in heaven." I'm here to teach them. "His insightful comments should count for something," says Firbury.
Liberal commentators are encouraged by the emergence of scholarship within the ranks. Firbury reports that “Prison officials allow Doobie to teach a class on Islam to fellow inmates four times a week; about 100 prisoners attend each session. "Currently we are mastering the multiplication tables to determine how many virgins we get as a group."
Who can doubt were making progress here folks?
I suppose some disclosure is in order: Not so long ago I became a Sunni muslim. Sunnis are so called because they follow the Sunna, or hadiths (traditions) of the times of Muhammad (PBUH). Sunnis also follow Sharia, or Islamic law, pretty strenuously and place greater importance on pilgrimage to Mecca (the Hajj). Some Shi'ia muslims (the Twelvers) believe that Ali was the heir to Muhammad (PBUH) and are awaiting the return of the 13th Imam. It's all kind of complicated and couls take all day.
The wahabbis, who are the driving ideology behind most of the madness, originiated in the 18th century when Muhammad Ibn Abd al-Wahhab joined forces with a tribal chief, Muhammad Ibn Saud (sound familiar?) to lead a militant reform movement in Saudi Arabia. (http://www.nmhschool.org/tthornton/wahhabi_movement.htm) Basically, even the Sunni aren't muslim enough for these wack jobs.
So what's the point here? Would you say that the Church of Jesus Christ Christian was a fair representation of christianity? Probably not.
Doea that mean I think we should go soft on these motherf###ers? Negative. I didn't spend five years wearing the cloth of the nation for nothing. Locate, close with, and destroy the enemy by fire and maneuver.
Posted by: Aaron on July 9, 2005 10:38 AMCorrect! Look at the poorest nations. Ask you yourself "Why are they poor?" The answer will ultimately come down to the political situation in that country.
Current case study is Zimbabwe. Before Mugabe, Zimbabwe was a net exporter of food stuffs, with a growing economy. Now Zimbabwe is suffering famines. Why, a direct result of Mugabe's policies.
The is no real reason why Africa is a basket case. It is resource rich, with plenty of arable land. Many will go off on colonialism, yet Africa was far better off economically then. It is the political structures that destroy those nations.
The same in the Middle East. There is no valid reason other than political structure for the economic situation.
Which brings us back to the war on terror, the only historically valid political structure for dynamic economic and cultural growth is a free and open democratic society.
That is precisely the start we have in Afghanistan and Iraq. It may not be pretty or easy but in the long term it will bring about ultimate victory.
Posted by: JCM on July 9, 2005 10:49 AMI do appreciate the information about the Muslim religion and its various sects, and like many of us I have taken the time to research and acquire the information you provide.
However, what is your point in context to this thread?
What does terrorism have to do with the Church of Jesus Christ or anything Christian for that matter?
How does the comparison, coincide with idiotic liberal assumptions expressed in newspaper editorials?
Thanks for your comments.
Posted by: Amused by liberals on July 9, 2005 10:49 AMSharia is totally incompatible with constitutional law as is practiced in America. Every muslim I have spoken to, or corresponded with has stated that it is his desire, nay, commandment to see to it that Sharia becomes an integral part of American life.
Sharia is anathema to me and this country and anyone who proposes such a thing is my enemy. It doesn't matter how "kind & gentle" it is attempted, I will oppose it with all my might.
Posted by: alphabet soup on July 9, 2005 10:51 AMThe editorial board keeps repeating that mantra that more money will solve the problems. Talk about missing the boat! Money will not solve the problems of Africa. The US has been more than generous with time, money, and services for many, many years and yet socialist sympathizers like the Live 8 bunch think we are the reason problems aren't solved. They refuse to believe that Africa's own politics are responsible for the mess. Look what happened to South Africa after Mandela the Commie was elected.
Money, and lots of it, is what funds these fanatics. Yassir Arafat was a very wealthy man. If anything, we should continue to hunt for the money sources and shut them down while we also continue our quest to erradicate the terrorist threat.
As for those who think money is the answer, they should immediately volunteer to liquidate their own assets to help with the "Africa problem". The Live 8 performers could lead the way and then their sheep will follow. The rest of us can focus on taking care of the real problem of fanatical terrorism without their meddling.
Posted by: Burdabee on July 9, 2005 11:21 AM"Why are people so supportive of him [Osama bin Laden] in many countries? He's been out in these countries for decades building roads, building schools, building infrastructure, building day care facilities, building health care facilities, and the people are extremely grateful." Patty Murray D-WA
Other than her poor choice of audience and context, she was right on the button. That's how terrorists sucker poor nations into allowing them to nest and fester there. If a country already has these things, they won't be as tempted to take them from terrorists in return for the risk of retribution falling on their heads.
Posted by: starboardhelm on July 9, 2005 11:23 AMSounds like you know some wahabbis. You know, most bad experiences people seem to have with this nonsense is that people can't see outside of the Arab Muslims. Guess what! Most Muslims aren't Arab. I live in a muslim country that has relative freedom (although newfound) of the press, a fairly young but trying pretty hard to grow free market, and is beginning to "pull itself up by the bootstraps".
In response to why I posted this, the initial post in this thread stated, "It is the re-establishment of the 12th century Caliphate. Infidels (all non-muslims) will acceptable dhimmitude or die. Heretics (sunni muslims) will die." Basically, if you consider Sunni muslims heretic then you are talking about 85% of all muslims.
Oh, and alphabet? I took an oath once right before an extended camping trip that had some sort of phrase in it like, "I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same". The last time I checked, that included the first amendment. It's great that you'll be intolerant and hateful and all, but I don't see Americe moving towards becoming a caliphate anytime soon. There was an Italian politician who was supposed to be appointed to some EU position or something who was basically boycotted by most of the liberal northern nations of Europe becuase he was Catholic and the position of the Catholic church is that homosexuality is a sin. He said, translated of course, that "it doesn't matter if I say homosexuality is a sin; it only becomes a problem when I say it is a crime". I relate this little story because what you do with your religion is your business, and what I do with mine is mine. I oppose trying to integrate Shariah into public law just as much as I oppose trying to integrate Christian ideology into public law.
Yet, here we have THE REAL DEAL---islamofascists who DO want to establish a theocracy here and make no secret of it and are willing to use violence to accomplish it, and the left is.....SILENT. It makes no sense. The left is completely blind to it and will not yell and screech about it as they wrongly do otherwise. They are not qualified to be elected leaders to deal with islamofascist terrorism-- because they have their heads in the proverbial sand.
Posted by: Realist on July 9, 2005 12:25 PMBin Laden supplied weapons and training camps not hospitals and schools. You don't need to build many schools in a country where women can't be educated and boys only need to learn the Koran. You don't need any day care centers in a country where women aren't allowed to work. And just in case I missed it, where in Afghanistan is Bin Laden Memorial Hospital?
Her statement was profoundly ignorant.
Posted by: Mark D on July 9, 2005 12:34 PMAye and Amen. We're guaranteed freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. The Separation-of-Church-and-State PC fanatics squeal at every minor expression of public Christianity as if it were a huge crime. Why, somebody might be offended! Funny how our rule of law has easily stretched to cover Buddists, Wiccans, Muslims, Hindus, and on and on -- even though our founding fathers could never have imagined that. How on earth can it be offensive to celebrate the origins or our law?
[/soapbox]
Posted by: starboardhelm on July 9, 2005 12:39 PMYou're walking down a deserted street with your wife and two small children. Suddenly, an Islamic Terrorist with a huge knife comes around the corner, locks eyes with you, screams obscenities, praises Allah, raises the knife, and charges. You are carrying a Glock .40, and you are an expert shot. You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family.
Democrat's Answer:
Does the man look poor or oppressed? Have I ever done anything to him that would inspire him to attack? Could we run away? What does my wife think? What about the kids? Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand? What does the law say about this situation? Does the Glock have appropriate safety built into it? Does he definitely want to kill me, or would he be content just to wound me? If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me? Should I call 9-1-1? Why is this street so deserted? We need to raise taxes, have a paint and weed day and make this happier, healthier street that would discourage such behavior. This is all so confusing! ! I need to debate this with some friends for few days and try to come to a consensus.
Republican’s Answer
BANG!
Southern Republican's Answer:
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! Click.....(sounds of new magazine loaded) BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! click Daughter: "Nice grouping, Daddy. Were those the Winchester Silver Tips or did you use the hollow points?"
AMEN, BROTHA!!!
Posted by: Danny on July 9, 2005 04:02 PMAn alumnus of an Indonesian Islamist school, now a professional journalist, writes about his former classmates "School for terror: why some choose the path of the bomber."
Nothing there about poverty, except for the lack thereof: 'Most of my fellow alumni are more or less like me. They are successful in the secular world.'
Not unlike Osama bin-Ladin, Muhammad Atta, John Walker Lindh, the upper middle class cultists of the Aum Shin Rikyo, the Manson Family or the Nazis. These people are little concerned with poverty but enchanted with a fanatical death cult and the perverted sense of power that it gives them.
You need to get out more, Sasquatch. Or at least read the Times op-ed page and Stefan's commentary on same.
Posted by: mac on July 9, 2005 04:44 PMStefan Sharkansky had the only appropriate reaction a few weeks ago: Cancel your subscription; there is no flame at the end of that candle.
Posted by: Tom Rekdal on July 9, 2005 06:02 PMWhen do we start shutting these traitors up?
Posted by: ERNurse on July 9, 2005 06:41 PMWhat a freaking joke!
Posted by: BananaLand(aka Iguana) on July 9, 2005 07:39 PMThe London Sunday Times has a piece today:
July 10, 2005
Terror in London
Leaked No 10 dossier reveals Al-Qaeda’s British recruits
by Robert Winnett and David Leppard
AL-QAEDA is secretly recruiting affluent, middle-class Muslims in British universities and colleges to carry out terrorist attacks in this country, leaked Whitehall documents reveal.
Sorry I can't do html links, but here's the URL for the story:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1688261,00.html
Aaron,
Sounds wonderfully surgical! And perfectly un-PeeCee!
Now..before those *liberals* reading my post begin to gasp.....They need to understand that the tactic and strategy Aaron described above is one that is also used by those poor, oppressed, confused and poverty stricken (cough) Islamic terrorists to attack and kill innocent people around the world! And they don't do it for money, revenge or as a plea for help! They use that tactic to simply kill human beings that they decide are not worthy of life on this earth. Kind of like Hitler did......
Posted by: Deborah on July 9, 2005 09:50 PMLiberals truly don't value life. If they did, they would be as up in arms as we. In a civilized world, you are simply not allowed to take an innocent life with impunity. If the punishment for murder is life in prison, then we, as a society, have deemed the life of the murderer more valuable than the victim, simply by our actions.
Everyday, liberals prove where their hearts are...they stand for nothing and fall for anything. I know that's a broad brush, but let's call it what it is. Calling it something it's not insults us all.
Posted by: Danny on July 9, 2005 11:12 PMPatty murray's statements about building schools and roads is basically BS. I'm sure that the Wahabbis have set up a limited number of institutions of religious learning, but what they have done that is most important of all is simply maintained a presence. Osama and al Qaeda are masters at few things: propaganda, planning, and limited covert logistics.
What has this got to do with anything? The way to defeat terrorism is simply to have people there to tell our side of the story, not throw ridiculous sums of money around. al Qaeda, a group of mujahaideen who we at one point financed and trained (back in the '70s - enemy of my enemy and all that), has a MASTERFUL propaganda machine that even Goebbels would envy. Our liberal media does nothing to help advance our cause or tell our side of the story, and does everything to advance terrorist causes and further their aims. Ever read any of the translated intercepts from Al Qaeda in Iraq? Al-Zarqawi is QUOTING THE WASHINGTON POST TALKING ABOUT LOSING THE WAR IN IRAQ! This is how he rallies his faithful! Aid and comfort?
If the media wants to remain neutral and put out both sides, fine. If they don't then they shouldn't put out anything. NOw, we have this first amendment thing that they always call into play, which is their right; but I think the media needs to be educated that their words are prolonging the conflict and a direct cause of additional American and Iraqi casualties. My brothers in arms are over there under the gun every day because liberal bias sensationalist media people have no concern about the potential consequences of their words. I think the feds should simply put out all of the enemy propaganda found around bombing sites along with the quotes they contain from our news media.
As the feds, you can't silence the press or control them, realistically, and you shouldn't try. What you can do is a much better job of displaying your accomplishments and achievments than you are doing right now. If that means press conferences everyday flooding the information with pictures of schools built and happy children (available practically everyday from army.mil and usmc.mil), then so be it. Liberals don't like looking at the whole picture, they only like focusing on those little things which further their goals and efforts. In Iraq, that means whatever makes the administration look bad so they can talk about how evil Bu$hitler is and all that mess.
Posted by: Aaron on July 9, 2005 11:33 PMPerhaps you missed the part of the article that read "son of a peasant".
Also note that these alumni were in jail for money laundering, not scattered over a square block after strapping bombs on themselves.
Posted by: Sasquatch on July 9, 2005 11:41 PM"Remember the guy who got on a plane with a bomb built into his shoe and tried to light it?
Did you know his trial is over?
Did you know he was sentenced?
Did you see/hear any of the judge's comments on TV/Radio?
Didn't think so."...
Everyone should hear what the judge had to say.
I realize you legion of neo-con artists in here do not typically go out of your way to study actual contempory events that more often than not seem to contradict your usual surreal-spiel, but you might at least pretend on occasion to have an open mind if for no other reason then to amuse most of the rest of us who don't really feel like fighting another crusade right now.
Posted by: Jim on July 10, 2005 07:12 AMGarbage in, garbage out.
Posted by: Dishman on July 10, 2005 08:39 AMIf bombs go off in the quiet enclaves of (wealthy)Mercer Island or Medina, they will scream bloody vengance for the cameras. Clueless elite liberals. "Let's negotiate & talk our way out of any mess--it works in our Monday morning meetings with bagels." Let's understand why someone has a gun muzzle in our snout, rather than sending in a sharpshooter.
And as for Africa, they have had plenty of time to correct their problems. Americans are afraid to pin any blame on Africa's irresponsible & corrupt leaders and the peoples' lifestyles & behavoirs. Money will not fix it. That soon-to-be-stolen money should stay in America for inhanced border security and antiterrorism.
the sanctions were placed on Iran because the students and clerics misguidedly violated international law after their frustration and resentment with the west and it's puppet dimestore despot regent the Shah boiled over.
Without excusing violating the sanctity of a diplomatic compound for which the hostage takers should have been held accountable (including being brought before an international criminal court by force if necessary), I do have to point out for the sake of perspective that any indignities the US personnel were subjected to must have paled in comparison with the abuses the US backed dictator committed against his own people.
But of course being the neo-con platitude regurgitating simpletons you are, none of you jingoistic boobrubes are ever wont to see things from anything but the perspective you're told to.
Do you morons really think the Iranians would be voting for anyone today if it hadn't been for the 79 revolution?
Americans are such hypocrites. Iran is one of the most democratic nations in the mideast.
If we really wanted to encourage more reforms and less belligerence, we'd broker a peace accord with them and lift the sanctions.
Posted by: Jim on July 10, 2005 09:42 AMIf we had any way to impact the birthrate, these crazies would not be successful. In some ways, it's too late. Where was Bill Clinton for 8 years while this was building??? He got caught with his pants down...all to our detriment.
Posted by: Mr. Cynical on July 10, 2005 09:48 AMI do find it rather curious that my fellow fundamentalist Christians think it behooves them to impose 'western values' on societies that have no abortions or matrimonial provisions for sodomy.
Posted by: Jim on July 10, 2005 10:12 AMYou forget one thing... many of the moderates and reformers were banned by the mulahs from even running, and a lot of youth refused to vote because of it. Odds are, if a moderate had been allowed to run, he probably would have won. Yes, economics had a lot to do with his getting elected, but there were several other large factors as well-- like a lack of options.
I have a hard time calling Iran one of the most democratic nations in the Middle East... but then again, considering the competition, that isn't all that hard a feat to accomplish.
Posted by: Mike H on July 10, 2005 10:13 AMYou people have squandered away hundreds of billions of dollars to take out a tin-horned dictator halfway across the world who was no threat whatsoever to the US or our critical interests. Many of those he seemed to threaten are the very same people planting roadside bombs now. He was certainly no friend of Osama Bin Laden.
Meanwhile millions of people right here in our own country will die prematurely, not from any wig wad middleeastern terrorists, but because they don't have access to preventative medicine or affordable prescription drugs.
I stand-by my labels and I really don't care if anyone is offended.
I've been reading this forum for seven months now and the level of stupidity and ignorance in here is no less worthy of the contempt than I show.
It's no wonder the Democrats have been ripping the Republicans new ones in this state for decades. It's no wonder social conservatives keep getting not the short end of the stick, but the big end right up our *****.
These unfortunate events transpire because you're stupid and incorrigible. You think George Walkabout Bush is the best thing since peanut butter because he puts on a phallic suit and lands on an aircraft carrier, meanwhile illegal immigrants poor over your borders to sap resources that could be used to treat your stage two prostate cancer and another David Souter readies to be elevated to the high court by your born-again political messiah.
You are truly pathetic. I sometimes wish God would just call me home so I don't have to be exposed to the culture your ignorance and apathy have created anymore.
Posted by: Jim on July 10, 2005 10:43 AMFinally! One thing that I can agree with you on!
Posted by: alphabet soup on July 10, 2005 10:53 AMHave you the ISG report? The answer is an obivous no. Before you start calling people around here ignorant and stupid, you might just base your rant on some facts.
The fact that you first resort to name calling, then trot out vapid tripe attests to your level of knowledge and intellect.
God I love troll baiting.
Posted by: JCM on July 10, 2005 10:56 AMYou are allowed to spew your hate speech here. Try that in your beloved Iran. See how far you would get.
On second thought, I don't think you need just an anger management class, you need help from a professional. You are hopeless and that's not good my friend.
Calling people all kinds of names, saying you're more or less better and more enlightened then others who might agree with you on most stuff, then professing your faith... nice "Christian" attitude there.
Posted by: Mike H on July 10, 2005 10:58 AMConservatives in WA get your so-called 'short end of the stick' because of the famous 99.98 % voting accuracy in WA elections, because of the ilk of Sims & gang and the entrenched, excuse-babbling breaucracy here that does not want accountability nor meaningful change. How do you explain 400+k signatures on the gas tax initiative? You think that was an accident? Stay tuned for more change here in WA if you dare!
Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on July 10, 2005 11:08 AMIt's awful quiet out there.....
Jim must be conjuring up a really really big one to fling back at all us ignorant ingrates!!
I better get my thesaurus ready ;'}
Posted by: alphabet soup on July 10, 2005 11:13 AMno trees to hide behind here at SP--say it and back it up--that's all anyone asks; you might even get a good exchange of thoughts if you're brave enough;
you're the playground kid calling names from behind the tall fence; come on THIS side of the fence with some good facts, buddy-boy, and we'll test your bravery; if you are right, I'm sure many here will give you credit; your starting salvo of insults hurts your case; anyone can pizz & moan & find fault; offer some well-reasoned solutions & we will listen;
Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on July 10, 2005 11:23 AMO.K. there "not leftist" Jim, instead of puking your inane self-taught bullshit all over the place, why not disclose a source of information supporting any of it – any source. Then we'll see who's perspective is circular and inbred.
Puppet dimestore despot regent the Shah?
While silly name calling may be entertaining for you, there is no rational factual basis for anything you say, and the really amusing part is that you neither recognize it, nor care. It seems apparent that you believe that we should support Ayatollahs in order to stop terrorists? How does that work there genius Jim?
Iran is not a Democracy in any meaningful way and everyone except you and your ilk knows it. American trade sanctions can have no significant relationship to poverty in Iran because the regime in place is insular and has no internal accountability to its citizens. There is no rationale to connect poverty with terrorism, especially when such terrorism benefits the Ayatollah’s regime and economic prosperity for Iranians doesn’t. To spell it out for you Jim, if poverty were the cause of terrorism, terrorism would have been used to collapse the Iranian regime a long time ago. Obviously genius, it hasn’t.
“Not leftist" Jim says: “But of course being the neo-con platitude regurgitating simpletons you are, none of you jingoistic boobrubes are ever wont to see things from anything but the perspective you're told to. Your pitiful lack of factual background and analysis suggests that you are a victim of your own circular perspectives.
Given your sense of balance, decorum and literate style, I’ll treat your opinions with the regard they deserve. Garbage in, garbage out.
You are no conservative, but you are humorously unhinged. By the way, hope you get your wish, soon.
Thanks for the entertainment.
set up a SEA Times office in any Muslim or third-world hotbed; we'll watch from here; let us know how it goes; tell us who volunteered to staff the office; then, tell us how tolerant discourse and fighting poverty is properly done--that is--trying to understand a car bomb's feelings;
Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on July 10, 2005 11:52 AMWhich sense do you suppose "Not leftist" Jim intends this in, a lackadaisical chauvinistic hick, a bungling rural nationalist, or a male bucolic xenophobe?
Posted by: Amused on July 10, 2005 12:07 PMYou surprise me. The Seattle Times is in a Third-World Muslim Hotbed.
Posted by: Amused on July 10, 2005 12:12 PMI don't claim to have any remarkable intellectual capacities or knowledge. As a matter of fact I will humbily attest to having a bit of an inferiority complex about not earning a degree. Of course such insecurities often get tempored when I'm around people for a considerable period of time who do have more extensive higher education. Amazing the things kids and even adults are being indoctrinated with these days.
I still try to inform myself via the most unimpeachable sources--mainly critical thinking--on any matter of consequence.. and on more than a few that are of no consequence at all, such as when I read the comments in here. Ergo you never saw me predict the Gubernatorial election would be set aside like a certain overachieving Stanford grad, much less advocate a catastrophe like the war in Iraq or support any Bush candidacy for anything.. not Pappy Plutocrat, not Grandpappy Plutocrat, not Mini-Me or his pebble testicled brother who was loath to face down a female police chief during the whole Terri Schiavo saga.
I believe the term Lenin coined is 'useful idiots'.
I'm ashamed to even call myself conservative anymore the ideology has been so bastardized. Of course I don't much care these days to be associated with the land of my birth either--and before any of you jingoistic imbeciles suggest I should 'love it or leave it', might I draw your attention to the not altogether insignificant fact that I didn't ask to be born here. Not a choice! Of course if any of the star spangled among you can get me a Visa and would like to pay for me and my entire family to be repatriated, I'd be more than happy to abscond with my goodwill to any number of other places that less resemble the careless gluttonous materialistic infanticidal fatty craphole this society has become :)
Posted by: Jim on July 10, 2005 12:19 PMHow typically liberal of you Jim - complain, insult, then ask for money from those you insulted... and with a creepy little "smiley" no less.
An old American saying for you bubba, "Don't let the door knob hit you in the ass on the way out the door".
Posted by: Cheryl on July 10, 2005 12:26 PMNLJ, You are as bad as any whiny-ass liberal that ever scribbled on the boards here. Your arrogance is only exceeded by your self-loathing.
Your sanctimonious, self-righteous, holier~than~thou attitude is typical of losers who, having accomplished nothing in their miserable lives, seek to bash, trash, and diminish all around them.
I bet you're just a laff riot at parties ;'}
But, please.....tell us another one, would ya?
Posted by: alphabet soup on July 10, 2005 01:00 PMIf you prize critical thinking why don't you try it some time? By the way Jim, *Critical Thinking* isn't simply calling names, it means reasoning carefully.
You talk a lot but make no sense and you are not able to back up anything you say with any facts, evidence or line of reasoning. You are all emotional yak yak mixed with what you seem to think are convincing insults.
You must attribute statements and attributes to your idea of us because you are incapable of debating any of the actual us on real substance.
Nevertheless, I must admit that your "jingoistic boobrubes" was a good one. You suggest that supposedly someone here has said "love it or leave it" to you. Personally, I would prefer that you stick around and provide us all with ongoing installments of your creative insults and "not liberal/liberal" pathology.
Thanks for the example of stupidity that drives your fantasy world.
I know you're proud of that, but it's really not a virtue. Seriously.
I tell you in so many words that I was opposed to unplugging Terri Schiavo's feeding tubes under the circumstances.. that I'm militantly opposed to abortion on demand, illegal immigration, activist judges, homosexual marriage and civil unions and any number of other socially and politically engineered pathologies that have plunged our society into an abysmal decline..
and simply because I agree with Pat Buchanan that 'Empire' constitutes Wilsonian radical-liberalism and not any sort of conservatism, neo or otherwise, and that the healthcare system in this country has to be reformed so that every single citizen has reasonable access to life saving treatments in the richest society the world has ever known..
and I'm a commie-pinko-ACLU-fatboy Ted apparatchik who worships at the alter of Dan Rather and Mary Mapes.
Positively, truly, indubitably, frightfully ignorant. Hopeless.
Watch and see who your plutocratic messiah nominates to the court, who gets confirmed and how they rule over the next decade and you'll know I was right... a lot further right than you.
Posted by: Jim on July 10, 2005 02:20 PMEvery single citizen DOES have "reasonable access to life saving treatments", dumb-ass. Even the illegals have "reasonable access" you twit.
What you're referring to is socialized healthcare, and no conservative, Buchanan-ite or otherwise, espouses that.
You don't even fit the "broken clock" success rate..
Posted by: alphabet soup on July 10, 2005 02:36 PMWhy is it okay for you to invoke God but the minute some Rep does it, the world is coming to an end???
Double standard alert!!!!!!!!!
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1688261,00.html
Posted by: starboardhelm on July 10, 2005 02:48 PMhttp://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/804yqqnr.asp
Posted by: starboardhelm on July 10, 2005 02:50 PMThank you nonetheless for trying to clarify what I was referring to or thought, but I would more sincerily appreciate it if you would stick to tasks in your own pay-grade.
Posted by: Jim on July 10, 2005 03:04 PMHave you ever been to Iran?
I bet not. I was the mid 70's working for Bell Helo's. Ever heard of that company?
Was the Sha the greatest? No.... and yes his secret police did make mistakes, just like our own FBI. BUT....... the US was putting pressure on him to make reforms. I know. I was there and could travel the entire country, and did.
So Jim, as you have been asked before. Just how old are you?
Lee
Posted by: Lee.S. on July 10, 2005 03:04 PMAgain for the benefit of those of you toady republikooks with Tom Cruise syndrome, I am quite conservative. I can point to traditionalism in almost every issues ideology I subscribe to.
You can't all be this dense.
Posted by: Jim on July 10, 2005 03:21 PMJust understand that you have no standing here. It is earned over time. Stick around, keep posting, and who knows....?
Posted by: Danny on July 10, 2005 03:26 PMIs this Dick Durbin?
So you took some business trips to Iran. Does that make you more qualified to dissect the politics and history than the people who have lived there all of their lives?
Posted by: Jim on July 10, 2005 03:28 PMYou mistake my overwhelming frustration with ignorant legion of republicans and conservatives who have enabled the total hijacking of the conservative movement by the Arlen Specter wing of the party, a few militarists and some assorted Enron-types, for defensiveness.
Why am I not surprised?
Posted by: Jim on July 10, 2005 04:00 PMYou can't even "argue" at the lefty trolls' level.
Tell us another one. Every time you post you reveal yourself for the complete imbicile that you are.
Go ahead, rear back and pass another miracle!
Posted by: alphabet soup on July 10, 2005 04:06 PMAnd stop asking my age CC, it's entirely irrelevant. People on the net who are so adamant about knowing how old I am are usually looking for something other than a conversation, and I don't swing that way.
If you are Sue Bird or resemble her I will tell you my age.
Incidentally for those of you who want me to leave, I will accept Sue Bird in lieu of the ex gf whose reconciliation I said would be required in the event of relocation across the pond.
Posted by: Jim on July 10, 2005 04:26 PMWe finally found a use for you - spelling proctor.
As for the going away thing, I doubt if anyone cares one way or the other - you provide plenty of amusement just the way you are.
Good luck with that Sue Bird thing - I hear she likes to limit her dating to her own species.
Now get with it man - entertain us!
Posted by: alphabet soup on July 10, 2005 04:52 PMJim. TRY the age thing again. Come on, even guess at it. (-:
Lee
Posted by: Lee.S. on July 10, 2005 05:07 PMit's really easy... stop your temper tantrum and answer the questions poised to you and support your arguments with facts or, go have a time-out.
Posted by: ms.piggy on July 10, 2005 05:40 PMLee
Posted by: Lee.S. on July 10, 2005 05:42 PMTedious. Try a little harder.
Posted by: Amused by liberals on July 10, 2005 06:36 PMHis name was Jim too.....
Posted by: SouthernRoots on July 10, 2005 06:43 PMCareful, I lived in Iran for over a decade. I am fluent (but out of practice) in the language. I still have friends and contacts in and out of the country.
Anyone who points to the Iran elections is more delusional than Ron "The Banker" Sims lauding the accuracy KCE.
Go peddle your moonbat froth somewhere else.
Posted by: JCM on July 10, 2005 07:07 PMJim--(a.k.a.) 'Fly-on-my-shoulder:' flick--you're gone;
giving this guy time is like arguing about Plato's writings with a Tent City resident in Seattle;
Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on July 10, 2005 07:22 PMPosted by Jim at July 10, 2005 03:21 PM "
No Jim......no we can't......and we aren't.
And if *we* cannot all be dense in this topic.....where does that place *your* position?
He said to let you know that he isn't mad at you for downloading all that kiddie porn, and that you can have your old room back (you know, the one above the garage)........
Posted by: alphabet soup on July 10, 2005 08:23 PM1) There's going to have to be a much larger and more horrific terrorist attack, and probably in the US. Then and only then will we truly see some of the more misguided left joining the right and the really hard core liberal moonbats just moving to Canada to hide or quietly staying home and staying quiet.
2) We're going to have to attack a very important Muslim location in much the same way as we did Hiroshima or Nagasaki. Maybe not with a nuclear bomb, but with overwhelming force. There will be many outraged, but in the long run, it will save many more lives than it kills. The terrorists and the governments who support them will back down and cooperate if they know that their continued actions will lead directly to hundreds of thousands of dead Muslims.
One things for sure, it's going to take more, not less vigilance and action to stop terror.
Posted by: Jeff B. on July 10, 2005 08:35 PMAnd considering your exhorbitant use of insults and diatribe, I seriously doubt that you are a Christian. Whatever happened to "seasoning one's conversation with grace?" I guess that part wasn't in your translation. If you claim to abide in Christ, at least try to act like it. Your behavior so far has not reflected the nature of Christ, and in fact leads me to suspect that you are in fact not of the faith at all.
You have claimed to be a few things (conservative, Christian, patriot, etc.) but the things you have said lead us to doubt your genuineness. And you still have not given us the name of your "good authority."
We aren't buying what you're pushing. Come back when you're ready to drop the pretense and engage in intelligent discourse, because right now, we'd have better luck with polishing a turd than than with carrying on meaningful dialogue with you when all you have done so far is hurl insults.
Posted by: ERNurse on July 10, 2005 09:28 PMKeep in mind that islam is not a religion typically picked by anyone exercising freedom of choice - it is and ALWAYS has been a violently imposed, impressed and subsequently ENFORCED belief system - IT IS IN TOTAL AND COMPLETE OPPOSITION TO THE social and financial progress made by the Western world -- LED BY THE US -- over the last 200-250 years >> to this extant -- the number one target of the islamofascists is the tearing down of the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution -- documents and a social belief system that has served as models for all of the forward moving countries over two centuries --
A factoid to keep in mind -- today I have read on the BBC site that well over 3000 moslems resident at this time in Britain were trained to some extent at Osama's terrorist training camp(s) in Afghanistan -- a majority of these people were SECOND AND THIRD generation British Moslems -- think - think - think -- lets - see -- 19 hijackers for 911 -- they figger 4 or so in London -- looks like they have a LOT OF DEPTH
Also read about another shoe bomber - Saajid Badat - apparently chickened out and went home but kept his rigged shoe -- ended up getting caught in Britain and is currently in jail for 13 years -- shoulda been executed -- hey how many of you out there ever heard of this guy ??? - had a nice solid Arabic name -- not the anglo Richard Reid name we had stuffed in our face for a couple years -- no racial profiling 'round here --.
If the moslems get on with fast forwarding their religion into the 20th-21st centuries - they may save a few 100 thousand of themselves
As far as I am concerned the Israelis should be given the green light to take out Iran's nuclear plant(s)-- ASAP
Posted by: Bill on July 10, 2005 09:39 PMAnd the most ignorant swine at that.
Posted by: Jim on July 10, 2005 10:20 PMWe couldn't find any liberals, but we do have not-a-liberal, liberal Jim.
Wanna trade?
Posted by: alphabet soup on July 10, 2005 10:21 PMAnd if you are a Christian, I'm Bella Abzug.
Perhaps you should trot out your particular style of debate over at horsesass.org- I think they will be more likely to share your views and not call you on your nonexistent "good authority." They practice that kind of MSM journalism too.
Welcome to ignored-ville. Population: YOU. Buh-Bye.
Posted by: ERNurse on July 10, 2005 10:35 PMBella Abzug wasn't beaten by an ugly stick; she fell out of an ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.
No, no... even worse: she wandered into and was forever lost in the Woods of Ugly.
Posted by: ERNurse on July 10, 2005 10:47 PMTake 9-11 >> they hit the towers - a big symbol of western dominance of the world's financial comings and goings and what happens? - ya hear a whole lot of breast beating soapbox standing and blustery treats and a couple years later -- back to lockstep democrat voting - Schumer, the Hildabeast and Kerry -- hey if I was an Islamo fascist - I would hit NY again -- paid off -- next most likely target is LA -- San FranFreako is mostly a symbol of the negative aspects of US vs the positive and therefore is best left alone -- despite the Seattle area's bending over backward to appease and accommodate the Islamo's >> Seattle is probably second choice on the West Coast with possible equal standing from Portland -- Vancouver, BC of course is a SAFE CITY for them and provides a staging area for incursions into the states --
If I was them - I would make hits in all 4 major US west coast cities about 10 minutes apart -- really get all the analyst's and info babes panties knotted up >>>> on the other hand - I believe that the time would be right to zap a major icon of the US history -- like Mt. Rushmore - Williamsburg, VA, Gettysburg battlefield - Philadelphia - libery bell-- etc etc -- Old Ironsides - lotso choices - especially while all the energy is focused on the transport systems.
Posted by: Bill on July 10, 2005 10:54 PMNot that it's your fault, but you've got xeonophobic not even half-witted troglodytes plotting terrorist targets and actually encouraging attacks on the city your wife and son live in.
Meanwhile their intellectual equals in here not only fail to recognize the obscenity of hoping for more carnage to serve a halfbaked agenda, they go one better and figuratively high-five the neurotic waybacks for positively anti-social behavior--anything afterall is better than the 'liberal' dissent critical thinking sometimes necessitates.
I'm sure it's all my fault for pointing out poverty does in fact contribute to political instability in the Mideast and elsewhere, as does greed.
Just what was his argument?
Oh, my half a wit was so bamboozled at be called a troglodyte that I forgot he hasn't made one yet.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal...
Jim lives on the Animal Farm.
Posted by: JCM on July 11, 2005 06:58 AMOnce more, and for the record, despite the rabid pronunciations by not-a-liberal, liberal Jim, there is NO credible evidence that any of this is true (even the pathetic, "woe is me" self-victimization part).
Quite to the contrary, this is the sort of "I hate myself and life in general" crapolla that is typically attributed to the more extreme left wing.
not-a-liberal, liberal Jim, you're either an idiot, a misguided dolt, or just a moron (isn't it nice of me to allow you a choice? ;'}
Please feeeeeel free to come back and elucidate us again anytime!
You'll know us - we're the one's not wearing the tinfoil hats!
Posted by: alphabet soup on July 11, 2005 09:35 AMBTW, the 9/11 bunch came from well off families and were well educate. How does that fit in. I'm sure it is my fault for pointing out the fact that this woe is me, and it is the US's fault attitude does not line up with the facts on the murderers that attacked us.
Posted by: fred on July 11, 2005 10:34 AMTypical liberal emptiness. Absolutely certain he knows better about everything than anyone;
proves through his slur-filled comments that he has absolutely no idea why.
Jim is a lost little person who expresses hate for others to cover up his anxiety and self loathing.
Possessing no cohesive values or viewpoints, he needs to seek out people he knows do, and
presume to diminish them through invective. He is not particularly stupid, just very lazy.
The real certainty here is that Jim's insistent sustained intensity towards SP'ers blows his cover, and
acknowledges his recognition of their intellectual superiority over him.
Having nothing to offer but vitriol, he only reduces himself by proving to everyone that he has
nothing to offer but garbage.
Such profound insecurity is pathetic, but amusing.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,162176,00.html
Posted by: starboardhelm on July 11, 2005 05:11 PM