Skor Grimm points out Rep. Ed Murray's laughable statement about the gas tax
"If the gas tax is overturned, major bridges will not be repaired. You will not see congestion relief on (Interstate) 405. The Alaskan Way viaduct will be closed or will fall down."Yeah, whatever Ed. Maybe if Rep. Murray and the House Transportation Committe actually put together a sensible plan for transportation spending, the voters would be more willing to tax themselves than they are today.
In the meantime, it appears that the state government is already trying to sell bonds committed to the gas tax as early as July 1. What a bunch of sleazy jerks. Once bonds are sold that are contractually bound to the tax revenues, it will be nearly impossible to overturn the tax, an effective end-run around the credibile initiative that is underway to overturn the tax.
The No New Gas Tax campaign is going to court for a restraining order to suspend bond sales until it's determined whether the initiative qualifies for the ballot.
Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at June 20, 2005 04:23 PM | Email ThisBut shouldn't we be worried about real corruption, such as this:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apwashington_story.asp?category=1152&slug=Passenger%20Screening
"WASHINGTON -- The federal agency in charge of aviation security collected extensive personal information about airline passengers even though Congress forbade it and officials said they wouldn't do it, according to documents obtained Monday by The Associated Press."
Now this is a real government conspiracy against the people.
Posted by: JDB on June 20, 2005 05:19 PMIn this state, we elect our representatives, and we expect them to work for us - the citizens of Washington. Our state constitution allows for us - the citizens - to express our will to those elected representatives by the initiative process, if we feel strongly about an issue.
If enough citizens sign the petitions to get Initiative 912 on the ballot, and enough citizens vote for Initiative 912 in November, then the will of the majority of Washington citizens will have been enacted into law by a constitutionally guaranteed process.
What part of that do you have a problem with?
Posted by: KB on June 20, 2005 05:37 PMI'll be out collecting signatures thank You! If anyone in the Kent or Renton area need more initiatives, or need to sign this contact me - we have 18 days left!
Posted by: GS on June 20, 2005 06:01 PMGee, this is fun! It's like free association, except that nothing you say bears any relation to what came before.
Posted by: ScottM on June 20, 2005 06:11 PMThe viaduct needs to be replaced with a tunnel so that it doesn't fall in the next earthquake? Who volunteers to be in the tunnel during a earthquake?
Or even better yet in the tunnel in a Tsunami
Posted by: sgmmac on June 20, 2005 07:26 PMFunny how they are a model of quick action and efficiency when it comes to "locking in" a tax hike when they see the will of the people coming to smack it down.. And yet what we get for that tax hike is something along the lines of initial pre-funding of the feasibility study study. Sort of like they were fiscal conservatives when it came to the pricetag of a "revote." Huh.. Actually I guess it's NOT that funny. It's pathetic.
It would probably save the whales too.
Perhaps, JCM, but it would appear that we cannot stop a plague of lemmings. Hmmmm...what's the 'collective noun' for a plague of blood-sucking insects...hmmm...what rhymes with bureaucrat?
Posted by: scott158 on June 20, 2005 07:59 PMOf course, the fact that it ended up costing about $15 bil, took over 15 years, and leaks like a sieve should be ignored. Lets just start throwing money at it without really knowing what we're going to *do* with it.
As others have said, if the Viaduct is so dangerous that almost any tremor could knock it down, then perhaps we need to shut it down, now. Close it, and I bet the politicians will work out *real* fast what to do. Nothing cuts through the red tape like several thousand ticked off commuters.
Once that plan is in place, then come to the citizens with a gas tax.
Posted by: Eirik on June 20, 2005 08:02 PMKudos to the team filing the restraining order. I would really like it if you would post the judge's name-
If I haven't said so before - there is already a LARGE amount of campaign money and resources available for anyone wanting to run against a certain incumbent liberal judge here in Thurston county superior court.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apwashington_story.asp?category=1152&slug=Passenger%20Screening
"WASHINGTON -- The federal agency in charge of aviation security collected extensive personal information about airline passengers even though Congress forbade it and officials said they wouldn't do it, according to documents obtained Monday by The Associated Press."
But you are not concerned that the WA state Government is collecting personal information on people buying OTC cold medicine? Oh thats right, they are all Democrats that signed that bill in to law.
JDB= Just Dont Believe me
The next efficient action by the state will be to reschedule the Narrows Bridge Toll Plan to make it effective as soon as the booths are complete. Frequent bridge users know they are about done now. These funds will probably be used to stabilize the viaduct.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Gordon on June 20, 2005 09:03 PMI read in the local paper just yesterday that if you drive about 12,000 miles a year and gets 17 miles per gallon it'll cost you 41 cents a week, that's about $22 per year. Drive your car over a pot hole and you might find your repair bill to be around $200 - $300 or more.
What I would like to see happen if you all get your way is that the state just stop repairing and building any roads, bridge or tunnels. Let the damn things go to hell until it's take $200 billion to fix them and see what you guys say then.
God forbid that it never happens, but if that Alaskan Way viaduct collapsed from an earthquake every one that signed that initiative should hang their heads in shame.
I’m sure you would find some way to blame someone, anyone else but yourself.
If anyone is interested and haven't read it on the Web site, you can pick up blank signatures at Kinkos for 34 cents each. There are spaces for 20 signatures on each. Also, if you have the capability of printing 11 X 17 sheets, you can print your own.
Posted by: Gil on June 20, 2005 09:27 PMI am sure no-one wants to see the viaduct pancake! However; there is a limit to the amount of tax dollars that people should pay their government without accountability for where those tax dollars are being spent. Where is the 28 cents that we are already paying being spent at? Who has it? Furthermore, I object to spending 100 million for animal bridges.... I also object to a felon elected Governor who says she will NOT support any gas tax without accountability and then on the last day she threatens all of the legislators with calling them back if they don't pass it!
Posted by: sgmmac on June 20, 2005 09:28 PMI happen to agree wholeheartedly with him. If it's so damn dangerous, shut it down, NOW.
Posted by: cc on June 20, 2005 09:36 PMIf not, I think that this time around Olympia may see a side of voters wrath at the ballot box the likes of which they have never seen before. D-Day may look tame in comparison.
If they dislike the inititive process so much they may wish for a miracle in the next election, because they are going to need it.
The normal every day voter may not be real sharp but they are not idiots either.
Posted by: bigbird on June 20, 2005 10:14 PMFew object to prioritizing projects and drawing what we in the business world call a ZBB line.
Few object to tolls.
Few object to Seattle/KC raising their half of the money before sticking the rest us with the bill- but somehow a Seattle crisis is more of an emergency for Longview tax payers than it is for King County- go figure.
Few object to performance audits on the DOT
Few object to projects with competitive bidding.
Few object to projects without huge union scams attached to them like bloated apprentice quotas.
MANY OBJECT TO SCREWING THE ENTIRE STATE WITH THIS AND EVERY OTHER SPENDING EMERGENCY COMING FROM THE LEGISLATURE THIS YEAR.
Posted by: Andy on June 20, 2005 10:24 PMI suspect, and I have a little knowledge on the subject, that the retrofitting we did over the last four years since the Nisqually quake made it good for any normal quake we might expect.
What the retrofit cannot do, nor can a new viaduct, is adequately protect against a quake greater than 8.0. In fact the current viaduct is probably safer than a tunnel in an 8.0.
Any solution that does not build new arteries will not solve any of Seattle's traffic problems. Of course that would mean tearing down buildings and Seattleites would not like it. So it is not a solution anyone is planning for.
That said, I am of the opinion we should all just tell Seattle to scr@w themselves. If they want our money, then they will need to come up with real solutions to their traffic problems.
Chicken Little rants about the viaduct falling down are hyperbole. An 8.0 will cause such massive damage all over the Seattle downtown area that a collapsed viaduct will be a minor news item that day.
Posted by: Deadwood on June 20, 2005 10:26 PMI guess this is a start. I once sent a 5 page document to David Irons on State GOvernment reform ideas. I lost the paper a long time ago. But I had around 75 ideas on Government reform that would work and improve the efficiency of State spending and funding. I spent a weekend after the 2000 election thinking about the subject. If we all took one government agency and look into how they spend their money we could maybe find 10 to 50% in cost cutting steps. I think the DOV could cut expenses by 50% by modest changes in the regulations. SD spends 1/10 what we spend for a flat road work job. If they can do the job at 1/10 our current costs. Maybe we should hire them to do our road work for us. Then we would see a lot of value for the money. Our Gas tax is mortgaged so we never see any improvement in the roads because they have already spent the next Decade of funding to pay for the loans for all the great roads they built in the last decade all 10 miles of it.
The only answer is getting people who understand the process but not afraid to rock the boat. Show the people the waste and how to fix it. ALso if excess money comes into the budget every dime should be spent on highways to fix the roads or on Police and Firefighters. Not more social programs. Until we can fix our infrastructure what good is a new social program. Could it be that they just want to increase taxes so they dont have to spend current budget money on roads. Think of all the extra money comming into the coffers over 2 Billion dollars more than the last two budget. How many planned road projects could that fund without raising any taxes.
just my 2 cents worth.
This is government at it's absolute worst.
Ed Murphy SUCKS!!!!
For sgmmac:
First get over the last election. The subject is the Gas Tax. Also you might feel different about those animal bridges if you happened to hit a deer at 60 miles an hour.
As with most taxes they go for things that we all take for granted. Often we don’t see them but they are needed and much of it is maintenance.
It’s like my house that I bought brand new 30 years ago. Since then I’ve put on a new roof, painted it a couple of times and replaced every kitchen appliance. It’s called maintenance.
For Michele,
I’m no engineer but I would hope that with the tests that have been done they feel confident that it will stand. But you must also believe that when/if they build a new one it will be much stronger as are all new buildings being built today.
As I said if the folks that want to defeat this tax succeed I honestly would love to see all maintenance STOP. I know it won’t happen but something has to stop this nonsense. Why do we have a representative government if we are not going to let them do their work.
There is a plan close to 200 project or more, go here: http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/planning/wtp/
The biggest complaint we all have is that the bulk of the money in the gas tax is going to projects that aren't even projects yet. Give us real projects with complete plans and true costs for the rebuilds of 520 and 99 and then see what we think.
Your statement about stopping maintenance is pretty laughable - so how are they spending all of the gas tax revenue they get already? I think most of us agree that some major changes need to happen at WSDOT before we give them a blank check to spend even more money even more inefficiently.
In your earlier post, you mentioned that a car getting 17mpg would only cost $22 with the gas tax increase. Where did you get those numbers? I just figured out that amounts to $67/year not $22. I hope you didn't get those numbers from someone down in Olympia, but I guess it would make sense.
Posted by: Bubbasaurus on June 20, 2005 11:21 PMGreat point using your home maintenance as a example. So to elaborate on that if I may. I live in an old brick house. Before the quake I had a few settling cracks and the chimney was a little out of square. BUT after the quake...the chimney was ready to fall into the roof, and the cracks are more produced and have exposed an underlying flaw in the framing of the house its-self.
So, given that,do I a) prop up the chimney, spakle and paint the cracks hoping that I wont live in the house when another quake rolls through, or b) call the contractor for repair estiamtes.
Posted by: DamnageD on June 20, 2005 11:32 PMIf the I-hate-Gregoire-anti-tax passes, then maybe since we haven't apeased the gods of taxation, another quake will strike...knock down that piece of shit viaduct (and sink the 520) then we'll REALLY know how much it was needed!
I'd love to listen to E Wa-ners whine and cry when their access to the Ports are reduced or destroyed.
Folks, the clock is ticking...and it has for years now. We have to do something, and it's going to cost money. Deal with it!
Posted by: DamnageD on June 20, 2005 11:45 PMAnd maybe folks don't recall that our "leaders" don't really give a rats ass what we think about things. I seem to recall the GP making a very profound statement that we DIDN'T want a new stadium...just to watch it get built anyway.
Suckers!
Posted by: DamnageD on June 20, 2005 11:55 PMAs for hitting a deer going 60mph..... That's a risk all over America. Not just here and we don't need to spend 100 million on animal bridges so that they can cross the road to mate and increase the gene pool, or whatever other stupid reason the enviro-nazi's seem to think these animals need bridges for.
We don't need billions in maintenance of roads. We don't need millions spent on insane artwork that no-one but a freak understands on roads either. Only Seattle would spend hundreds of thousands of dollars putting artwork at a sewer facility. This state is tax and spend crazy and Seattle is really out there with all of their insane ideas. Every week there is a new plan coming out of Seattle that costs millions....
Enough of it!
Listen Dimwit, if this is such a transportation emergency, did you ever consider a major reprioritization of government eliminating all non-essential programs?? How about doing things like:
1) Eliminating prevailing wage on these projects.
2) All State employees take a 10% cut in salaries and benefits.
3) Freeze all state travel starting with Gregoire's real fine European vacation.
4) Eliminate the 1 or 2% to the Arts bullsh*t.
5) Repeal the Growth Management Act so rural counties can develop a tax base.
6) Statewide spending freeze.
All you LEFTIST PINHEADS know is TAXTAXTAX as a first resort. Screw you DD. Then you try to guilt and scare people into supporting this massive tax increase.
BAD TRY===NO FU**** SALE HERE PINHEAD!!
If you'd get OFF YOUR F@#$ING HIGH HORSE for a moment you'd see that I AGREE WITH YOU. I'm capable of understanding your points when valid and NOT being a complete shithead about it.
Get over your self or go have a drink.
Jezus!
I couldn't agree with you MORE about the overall damage that will be inflicted upon the greater metro area when (NOT IF) the big one hits. The least of our worries would be that POS viaduct or pontoon POS 520 were destroyed.
As far as the underfunded FD/PD...again I concur. I vote for EVERY SINGLE LEVY that I can...we NEED those services. And the friggen car thiefs, I hope Satan uses them as cushions for his bony arse in hell!
I do have a pretty good idea the damage we'll sustain. And I didn't pretend to have a solution. I'm trying to make a few simple points here. One being that the energy being spent on repealing the gas tax could really be used (in my opinion)in a more constructive measure. Pressuring the politicians to be accountable for what they are spending. Or enacting some drastic measures...like CYN-IRR has laid out ( yes, arse hole, i agree with you, even if your being a dick).
You've got good points David, don't think that just because I dont agree with ONE petition taht i'm incapable of seeing a bigger picture. I'm allowed to disagree, it dosent make me the enemy, retarded or a pinko commie. I just dont agree with THIS method.
(Side rant: What's really needed is some type of control on the dumbasses who live next to these things and create legal problems. It all comes down to responsibility! Don't buy a house next to an airport/road/stadium without realising that might expand some day dumbass! I especially love people who get a discount on property because of an easement and then try to sue when it's used! Our whole society has a serious responsibility problem.)
As for the several people who ask if the viaduct is really falling apart as a Seattle resident I will relay a few observations (I drive nearly daily on the viaduct and park in the area frequently) about this piece of crap architectural wonder.
1) The road isn't flat anymore. If you are stuck in trafic you can see the dips from it bending/flexing. If you are driving it's kind of like a speedboat going over gentle swells. Fun in a sort of perverse way actually.
2) You can see raw steel rebar in multiple locations on the structure.
3) The so called 'retrofit' the DOT did that someone foolishly thought might make it 'stronger' consists of strapping a couple of steel beams onto the side of the thing (a sort of 'splint')
4) A coworker had a chunk of concrete land on her car about a year ago.
5) Goddamn the things' just UGLY too, what were they thinking in the first place.
Man I'm with ya on your side rant! 100%
Posted by: DamnageD on June 21, 2005 12:59 AM1. Seattle isn't the only port around.
2. Ever heard of the Columbia River?
Hmmm. I wonder if the possibility that enraging a democratic (small "d" -- not the party) populace with its heavy-handedness (G_DDAMN YOU PEASANTS, IT'S AN EMERGENCY! LIKE THE OTHER 80-90 THAT WE DECLARED IN THE MOST RECENT SESSION), and resulting in a citizen initiative being placed on the ballot, could be construed as being constructive and 'pressuring' the politicians to be more accountable with what they are spending.
Regardless of how one feels about the initiative, or how one intends to vote if/when it makes it to the ballot, my opinion is that it serves as a well-deserved smack-upside-the-head for Christine I and the Legislature.
Posted by: FlyingTigress on June 21, 2005 04:56 AMA tunnel that everyone thinks is such as great idea "must be built on bed rock" and I've not heard one word from are so called experts if there is any they can attach to. Now granted, we can dig real deep to find it at a cost of ????.
One only has to look at the I-5 convention center mess and ask yourself. Who in their right mind would build something like this over a major freeway that takes 4 lines down to 2 and IF it came down during a earthquake. It would bring this whole area to a full blow stop.
So should we trust these people who built this mess.
PS... yes I'm a Engineer.
Posted by: LeeS on June 21, 2005 06:54 AMI have a limited understanding of the whole bond process, can anyone help? I think that like home loans, they have different rates based on some rating system. Considering the dismal failure of sound transit, a floundering monorail project, no effective auditing or accountability oversight, not to mention our national embarrassment of a state election, I wonder how many additional tax dollars will be spent on higher bond rates?? We certainly will not qualify for the good student or safe driver discounts.
Posted by: dl on June 21, 2005 07:44 AMA tunnel must be built in bedrock? Everyone knows that downtown Seattle is built on tidal mudflats. Didn't the new stadiums have extra large budgets for stabilizing them, because earthquakes cause all that old mud to jiggle?
Typical of Seattle to think that just because they want it, they can buy it, even if it is essentially physically impossible.
Posted by: dl on June 21, 2005 07:51 AMJeffro says " Why do we have a representative government if they are not going to let represent the will of the people."
The History began some 12,000 years ago. Humans existed as members of small bands o nomadic hunter/gatherers. They lived on deer in the Northern Mountains in the summer and would migrate to the Southern beaches and live on fish and lobster in winter.
The 2 most important events in all of history were the invention of beer and the wheel. The wheel was invented to get man to the beer. These were the foundations of modern civilization and together were the catalyst for the splitting of humanity into 2 distinct sub-cultures, namely the Liberals and Conservatives.
Once beer was discovered it required a great amount of grain and that was the beginning of agriculture. Neither the glass bottle nor aluminum can were invented yet, so while our early human ancestors were sitting around waiting for them to be invented, they just stayed close to the
brewery. That's how villages were formed.
Some men spent their days tracking and killing animals to B-B-Q at night while they were drinking beer. This was the beginning of what is known as "the Conservative movement." Other men who were weaker and less skilled t hunting learned to live off of the conservatives by showing up for he nightly B-B-Q's and doing the dishes, sewing, fetching things and
hair dressing. These were the people who began the Liberal movement.
Some of these Liberal men eventually evolved into women. The rest became known as "girleymen". Some noteworthy liberal achievements include the domestication of cats, the invention of group therapy, group hugs and the concept of entitlement programs that dictate how to evenly divide amongst all people, the meat and beer that Conservatives worked so hard to provide.
Over the years Conservatives came to be symbolized by the largest, most powerful land animal on earth, the elephant. Liberals are symbolized by the jackass.
Modern Liberals like imported beer, but most prefer white wine or imported bottled water. They eat raw fish but like their beef well done. Sushi, tofu, and French food are standard liberal fare. Another interesting evolutionary side note: most of their women have higher testosterone levels than their men.
Most social workers, personal injury attorneys, journalists, dreamers in Hollywood and group therapists are liberals. Liberals also invented the designated hitter rule because it wasn't "fair" to
make the pitcher bat.
Their biggest contribution was to make the education system less stressful by requiring a student only be as smart as the dumbest class member.
Conservatives on the other hand drink domestic beer. They eat red meat and still provide for their women. Conservatives are big game hunters, rodeo cowboys, lumberjacks, construction workers, firemen, medical doctors, police officers, corporate executives, soldiers, athletes and generally anyone who works productively outside government.
Conservatives who own companies hire other Conservatives who want to work for a living.
Liberals produce little or nothing. They like to "govern" the producers and decide what to do with their production. Liberals believe Europeans are more enlightened than Americans. That is why most of the Liberals remained in Europe when Conservatives were coming to America. They
crept in after the Wild West was tamed and created a business of trying to get MORE for nothing.
Now this is a real government conspiracy against the people.
I'm suspicious that when all the facts are known, there is much less to this story tham now appears.
Posted by: South County on June 21, 2005 09:24 AMI'd love to listen to E Wa-ners whine and cry when their access to the Ports are reduced or destroyed.
Folks, the clock is ticking...and it has for years now. We have to do something, and it's going to cost money. Deal with it!
...a sacrifice to the tax gods...I like that phrase.
For those of you who believe that if you pay for it, you'll get it...I have something on e-bay I'd like to sell you.
No, on second thought...even con men have standards...only politicians do not. Why would any sane person support any transportation program cooked up by King County?
9 ½ cents is a lot
for those who don’t have it
by
Mark Hulst, Chairman
GoWashington
With the July 8 deadline fast approaching, thousands of everyday, hard working men and women are hustling to get 225,000 valid signatures in the first step toward repealing the recently passed 9 ½ cent-per-gallon gas tax. I am proud to be a member of this committed group and believe it is time for all of us to fight this unfair and inappropriate tax.
I am appalled the Democrats rushed this tax through without first insuring the Department of Transportation was properly spending the 5 cent-per-gallon tax passed in 2003 – just two years ago. The Legislature passed a bill last session allocating $4 million to fund performance audits of the Department of Transportation, so why couldn’t the Democrats wait until the audits were completed? Good management dictates that you know what you are spending and where before you seek additional funding.
As has been said before by myself and countless others, “what we need is real accountability in state government for where our tax dollars go.” There isn’t one person in this state who doesn’t understand the need to improve our highways and roads. What we don’t understand is why we can’t have better management and accountability in how these projects are handled.
Also, how does a 9 ½ cent a gallon tax to pay for rebuilding the Alaska Way Viaduct and the 520 floating bridge help the hop ranchers in Moxee, or the orchardists in Yakima, or the wheat farmers near Spokane? It doesn’t! The only people who are going to really benefit from this gas tax are those in Seattle. Little, if any, benefit will be seen by taxpayers in rural counties or small town communities throughout eastern Washington or other parts of the state.
Granted the Democrats did earmark one cent of the 9 ½ cent gas tax for local governments to improve roads in their immediate areas. But what this means is that roughly one-third of Washington’s population will be paying a tax on which they will receive only a pittance in benefits. When does the time come when the rest of the state stops paying for the troubles of Seattle?
In addition, local taxes will have to be raised – in addition to the 9 ½ cent gas tax – for communities to qualify for this funding. If a community votes no to additional taxes, they lose funding for their local road projects, but still have to pay the gas tax. Backers of the new gas tax, call this an incentive. In the old days, we called it blackmail.
The fact is the 5 cent gas tax and this latest 9 ½ cent gas taxes are extremely regressive; hitting the poorest of the poor hardest. These additional taxes will cost the poorest families approximately $150 per year; money desperately needed for food and other family needs. The Democrat’s rush to pass this tax invalidates their claims of protecting the “little guy”.
Now is the time for all of us to stand up and say “No” to the tax and spend Seattle liberals who believe our taxes are for their improvements. Now is the time for all Republicans to stand up and protect Washington’s taxpayers. Now is the time to tell Olympia that we have found our voice and that voice says, “No more wasteful spending!”
I urge everyone to sign the petition to repeal the gas tax. If you have already signed, then make sure your family members and your neighbors have signed this most important petition. Together we can make a positive difference for all of Washington State.
Mark Hulst is the former chairman of the Skagit County Republican Party and chairman of GoWashington. GoWashington is a political action committee dedicated to electing Republican to the Washington State Senate, House of Representatives, and County Councils/Commissions. It is headquartered in Olympia, Washington.
Posted by: David Adams on June 21, 2005 09:33 AMLaughed my a$$ off. Well done.
Posted by: Jeffro on June 21, 2005 09:44 AMNo New Gas Tax
218 Main St. #412
Kirkland, Wa 98033
I'm sedning them a check today, and I urge everyone to provide some financial support for this worthy cause.
Posted by: L. H. smith on June 21, 2005 09:59 AMWhy can't you liberals get it through your thick heads what we are saying about taxes? If the States puts a package together showing actual needs, costs and logical economic plans to archive them then we will listen and act accordingly to support it. I am sure most of us would even be willing to pay more in taxes if the facts bore out. We are tired of the massive waste of money by the leaders who direct public money to their own personal leberal agendas regardless of what the public mandates. You people better listen and you better wake-up because there is a huge groundswell of voter anger about to run over the top of you.
Posted by: 4pawz on June 21, 2005 10:01 AM...dogs and cats living together...mass hysteria!"
It’s called an ELECTION…and you cast a VOTE if they don’t do what you think they should do.
Just remember you only get ONE vote and so do I.
Come on you can't be serious...
You said: "when WE want to build something and need money from the bank. We've personally been through that process--you have to tell the bank WHAT your plans are, who's building it, how much it costs, cost breakdowns, what materials you're using, have insurance and permits already in place, etc. "
Many are long term projects and you just don't do the detail planning/design/material specs/permits until you know what it is your going to build, be it a house, tunnel, road or whatever. It's simply a waste of time and money.
Then you end with: " why are THEY exempt from any accountability on building projects? "
They are absolutely being accountable and responsible. They are not going to go through the expense and effort of designing a road, tunnel or viaduct when they don’t know what it is they going to build (now that would be irresponsible).
I take it from your post that you build a house and I’m sure you didn’t design a high rise and a house when you went to the bank for a building loan.
Oops, they already declared an emergency, didn't they?
Posted by: swatter on June 21, 2005 10:30 AMHow is it fair that a vast majority of the 9.5 cents goes to King County projects that we will never use? Why not tolls and local levies?
I seem to remember America got started under similar circumstances (taxation without representation). Is this not tyranny?
Posted by: On the Far Right Side of the State on June 21, 2005 10:45 AMIf you don't like it, why don't you merge with Idaho? Or form your own state?
Posted by: swatter on June 21, 2005 10:56 AM1) How much is going to direct costs such as staffing to process petitions, advertising, mailers etc. vs.
2) Consultants
With time so short (July 8th is 17 days away), it's easy to get caught up in the euphoria of repealing this onerous gas tax and not take a few moments to clearly document for people who is getting paid, how much and for what.
Know what I mean?
What the hell have you been smoking. Our politicians have a history of ignoring the wishes of the PEOPLE that they represent AND work for. Our fine Gov said one thing "no new taxes" and strapped a butload of taxes onto our backs, with the support of the legislature. How does that represent us? How can we change that by voting when our elections are completely unreliable?
As for building anything in this state - have you ever had anything built? Shed or 200,000 sq. ft. business park, I've been involved in both and Michelle is RIGHT and you are SO WRONG. Stop speaking out of your a$$.
Also, don't lecture me on one person, one vote - it's your fu¢king party that was voting multiple times and stuffing provisional ballots in with the rest...
Posted by: Jeffro on June 21, 2005 11:44 AMThank you for your great response. It is truly amassing to see how the Conservative man has progressed over the Liberal man (sic) these passed 12,000 years.
Jimmie-howya-doin:
Thank you for your comments, I laughed until my stomach hurt. The sad part is the Liberals will now emailing for the next few weeks for the suggested class schedule.
Jeffro:
Thank you for your great response. It is truly amassing to see how the Conservative man has progressed over the Liberal man (sic) these passed 12,000 years.
Jimmie-howya-doin:
Thank you for your comments, I laughed until my stomach hurt. The sad part is the Liberals will now emailing for the next few weeks for the suggested class schedule
Well thanks so much for raising the level of discourse.
I can’t figure out if it’s your age, IQ or intelligence that your displaying but in any case it’s a minus 1.
Good job Jeffo. I’m sure if you have kids they must be very proud. It was cute the way you used the “ ¢ “ in the F word.
BTW, a teacher once told me that people that swear do it because they don’t have anything to say.
You’ve made her case.
Typical liberal tactic, attack someones IQ. Ooooh, you liberals are so smart and so are your teachers. Intellgent people never use profanity blah, blah blah.
Again, I'm curious- have you built any structure in this state? The private sector has to secure financing and to secure financing, the assorted lenders have to be assured that you are actually going to build something from start to finish.
I guess government doesn't have to do that since they have an endless supply of tax money to draw from.
Posted by: Jeffro on June 21, 2005 01:55 PMHints from the audience? Here are mine off the cuff:
101--"Voter Integrity and The Deceased--Making Sense of Putrefaction."
102--"Absentee Voting Studies--The Invisible Man and Etherial Vapours"
103--"Fingers & Toes--Counting Votes in the 21st Century--a King County Perspective"
104--"Crime & Punishment--(Abridged Version)--How to Retain Your Job (& Salary & Bene's) and Dignity Despite Right Wing Attacks."
105--"Ballot Stuffing--That Silly Myth Pervades." (Guest Speaker-Chicago Voting Precinct Captain, Stuffalo Boxxo.) I'm ready to roll--have my pocket protector filled.
How about the elective class
101--"Effective Felon voting" class could be available for four consecutive years with credit earned for "on site training in Monroe" or another accredited four year prison of your choice (or not your choice). This is currently one of the number one fields of employment in King County after graduation.
An interesting fact that I gleaned from the state's web pages indicate that there are more than 104,000 Washington State Employees--a numbert that has almost doubled the number since 1989 and makes Washington State the single largest employer by far. The ratio of state employees to state residents since 1989 has also increased. Now considering that during that same period most businesses became a bit leaner with the implementation of electronic office automation and outsourcing this increase doesn't make sense. If Olympia trimmed its roles by a mere 10% it would save taxpayers in excess of $520 Million dollars annually (conservatively figured without perks and benefits). So why do we need a tax increase when we can right-size the workforce to achieve the necessary working capital?
For those of us who migrated from the Golden State, we remember the awesome effects of Proposition 13 limiting the taxes people pay and forcing state and local government to tighten appropriately. Since Prop 13 and subsequent cost cutting that state had years of overflowing coffers (except the brief tenure of a wacko governor who was ousted by recall). The more Christine and friends push for incrementally ever-increasing tax burdens, I'm afraid that our next move must be to enact such drastic stops to force responsibility.
Posted by: Elvis is the King County on June 21, 2005 10:08 PMClass dismissed--another screw-off (oops--teacher contract) "teacher training day" that I got paid for--Me & 4pawz spent it at Starbucks working on the next year's 'curriculum.'
Actually--Elvis raised a good point--I remember hearing on radio about the ratio of edu. admin to teachers in WA being very high relative to other states. Anyone? This--I think--is the first ripe area for an audit.
Thank you guys for being so smart and so funny. Elvis, thanks for the interesting statistics. Keep singing . . . I like your music!
Posted by: lksimstrailgrammy on June 21, 2005 11:39 PM110 - Emergency Clause Writing
111 - Gun Control for non NRA members
Posted by: GS on June 22, 2005 12:00 AMbless him and the 238 other people he carries on his shoulders while working--illegal immigrants, freeloaders, Tent City-zens, King County election workers (with promotions), K. County code enforcement officers (watch out!) and a host of other useful idiots; 415 am? bless him again; I'm usually dreaming of sugarplums at that time; or sometimes waking up in a cold sweat (ok--honestly, a wet bed!) re-living the election with that damn recurring dream of being "too late" to vote and the election is called for Her Grace by 1 vote! (insert 'Dean Scream' audio soundtrack here) as the Aussies say, "good day!"
Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on June 22, 2005 12:03 AM