KING 5 has the names of the voters whose absentee ballots King County failed to count last November. The ballot envelopes were released by King County this afternoon in response to my records request.
All 30 of the voters I identified the other day as "matching with reasonable certainty" are on the list.
All but 3 of the other names appeared on my list as "possibles".
UPDATE: In addition to Wendy, Todd and Lance Corporal Kenneth Stansbury of Bellevue, who I mentioned on Monday, there were other families with more than one disenfranchised voter:
Gina and Jeffrey Crites of Renton
Diki and Kathy Chharing of Kent
Paul and Shirley Stewart of Covington
I found a few of the disenfranchised voters in the state Public Disclosure Commission database of campaign contributors --
4 had donated to Republican candidates
2 had donated to the Realtors PAC, which donated mostly to Republicans (and exclusively to Dino Rossi in the governor's race)
3 had donated to either a Democrat candidate, or the Democrat party
1 had donated to a Democrat-leaning PAC (WA Machinists' Council)
1 had donated to a bipartisan PAC, WA Hospital PAC, which donated to both Rossi and Gregoire.
Among the other interesting names on the list -- Maude Ferry of Mercer Island. Mrs. Ferry is the wife of Richard Ferry, co-founder and retired CEO of Korn/Ferry, Intl. The Ferrys are major-league philanthropists and major-league Republican donors (look them up here)
The Seattle Times has the story this morning: "Voters irked their ballots didn't count". [The print edition and the first online version inadvertently flipped the descriptions of Todd and Ken Stansbury, but the latest online version corrected the error].
The P-I doesn't report the story at all. You know that if King County had a Republican executive and there were uncounted ballots from, say, a mostly black neighborhood in central Seattle, there would be no end to investigative reports, protests from the NAACP, charges of "ghosts of Mississippi", etc. (and they would be right to demand a thorough investigation). On the other hand, when a Democrat administration disenfranchises a bunch of mostly white Republicans from the suburbs, and then unlawfully covers up the details until after the main controversy subsides, the newspapers bury the news in the middle of the local section, write it off as a "mistake", or ignore it altogether.
Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at June 16, 2005 08:02 PM | Email ThisYeah, right.
Posted by: BananaLand(aka Iguana) on June 16, 2005 08:51 PMThis is just sickening. If my name were on the list, I'd be furious (actually, I furious for those on the list, but I would be EXTRA furious).
Posted by: Ken on June 16, 2005 09:16 PMTiberio, Colleen F. Woodinville
Huh. No, "Suits, Brian" in there. Gee, think there's another pile of unopened ballots someplace?
Ron Sims and his crew of election fixers belong in prison.
Posted by: steve_dog on June 16, 2005 10:34 PMEven a busted clock is correct twice a day. Steffi's record is so bad, you have to conclude he's doing it on purpose. Kinda the same logic he projects onto the KingCo election board.
Posted by: Unkl Witz on June 16, 2005 10:46 PMI hope that the guy who posted on another thread here at SP and who has filed to put a Gregoire recall on the ballot is successful in his hearing. If not, I hope that someone can step up and do it next year.
At this point, I'm close to being ready for a call of the citizens of the state who are sickened by the actions of the Democrat machine in this state to plan a day to walk straight into the Senate and House chambers in Olympia with coolers full of food and sit down for a very, very long time.
Posted by: JRR on June 16, 2005 10:50 PMRemember a thrown away ballot has nothing to with fraud and everything to do with culture.
Remember a thrown away ballot has nothing to with fraud and everything to do with culture.
As my son grew older, he continued this "good home training" and began to really research issues and candidates. Now he takes his little boy (9) and stepson (13 - from a former communist country) to visit their legislators in Olympia so that they will understand and participate in our "democratic process". I am so proud of him; it breaks my heart that these fraudulent land / power grabbers took away something so precious from him.
I just ignore the idiot trolls. Obviously they do not love this country as much as our family does, and they are not critical thinkers. They need to visit the former Soviet Union and see the downtrodden faces, the vacant eyes . . . the result of years of listening to a government "that knows what is best for you". Meanwhile, I value the encouragement of Michele and 4pawz and scores of others who visit here. They understand the true meaning of freedom and its source.
Posted by: lksimstrailgrammy on June 16, 2005 11:34 PMYou said “…Sounds to me like someone got their hands on a republican fundraising list...”
Recall several noteworthy events from early October, 2004, about a month prior to the election: (1) the break-in and theft at Washington State Republican headquarters in Bellevue where three computers containing the state GOP’s most sensitive information were stolen. (2) the Republican Party offices in Spokane were vandalized and burglarized.
Not making any allegations or accusations, but if it walks like a duck and it talks like a duck…
You are just too, too much; two tons of fun. A literal poster child for the delusional logic your side indulges in that made them think an election contest was a good idea.
First you think you can tell if someone is legally in the country by looking at how "foreign sounding" their surname is (even Snorky had to cough that one back up). And now you think you can tell how someone voted by the same criteria, another stunning proposition.
Here's a little advice Deb: It was a close election, but your side lost. Not by much, but in the end, they lost.
Now you can either suck it up, go home and get to work on the revote (Nov 08), or you can continue to stand here in the public square with tears in your eyes, stamping your feet, and making more breathtakingly ignorant statements like the one above.
Frankly, we prefer the later. We find them enormously entertaining.
Posted by: Unkl Witz on June 17, 2005 06:41 AMIf it were not for Stephen and people like you Deborah, the sleuths at King 5 would never have looked for this list. Stay on the case and give the rats what they fear most.... Public discussion of their actions.
I know a person on the list. He lives on the eastside and is a GOP.I'm going to call him today to tell him the dem machine would not count his vote. How sad that it took the stonewalling Logan gang to take so long to come forward. The troll knows that it never would have happened without people like Deborah demanding it.
Keep up the good work folks.
Posted by: Brad on June 17, 2005 07:23 AMRemember the mantras -- "Vote early and vote often" and "Count every (one of our side's) ballot"
It is not who votes but who counts the votes that counts.
Posted by: Bill on June 17, 2005 07:25 AMAnimal Farm here in KC.
Posted by: righton on June 17, 2005 07:30 AMWould someone please explain to me the reason for the difference in your perspectives then and now?
Posted by: Northern Coho on June 17, 2005 07:35 AMHow come we don't hear a similarly anguished public comment from him about these?? Oh, that's right--it's not so bad because an elected Democrat official's name is not among the list. So Dean sleeps better about this one....
Posted by: Michele on June 17, 2005 07:41 AMSure, I'll answer you. When the recounts were going on, many people here wanted a reCOUNT, not a reCANVASS. We wanted King County to count the SAME BALLOTS over again, and not add any 'new' ballots without a clear chain of custody into the process.
Now that this whole thing has gone to Hell in a bucket, why not keep searching and adding ballots? If we keep finding them for the next four years, can we keep adding them to the count? Maybe Rossi will be back in the lead in the near future. It'll only point back to how ridiculous this whole thing was.
It's not OUR fault that this whole process is so f$(*#$&ed up, Coho, it's King County's fault.
Will you answer my questions, Northern Coho? There's only two possibilities of what happened - Rossi was cheated and the Governor's Mansion was stolen from him, or Gregoire actually received the most legally-cast ballots. If Gregoire received the most votes, why didn't she receive the most in the first count and the first recount? If that were the case, Rossi would have paid for the manual recount, and after Gregoire won that count the people of the state wouldn't have had to pay for it. And if Rossi lost three counts there never would have been an election contest. Ergo, King County's sloppy ballot procedures cost Gregoire the first two counts, thereby costing the citizens of this state millions of dollars in the manual recount and election contest. Where's the outrage from the left that King County cost us millions of dollars? Couldn't we use that money for education or roads or something? Where's the outrage??????
Posted by: Larry on June 17, 2005 07:47 AMThe last election was nothing new
Posted by: Bill on June 17, 2005 07:51 AMDean Logan not only doesn't sweat this one, he sleeps very well because his mission was accomplished. They got a lousy 'Rat into the Governor's chair. This re-canvass was done from an outcome-oriented point of view. As long as Fraudoire came out ahead, the job of the KC political hacks was done. The fact that is was, at best, sloppy and incompetent, or, at worst, fraudlent, is only a minor concern.
I guess the nice word for it is “culture”. Almost sounds like the doings of an innocent and benign organization as they drain my bank account.
Again - I must emphatically emphasize that the statement that it is "King County's sloppy ballot procedures" is somewhat mistaken -- they were sloppy - but only accidently on purpose -- unless of course you mean that they were too sloppy to come up with the necessary margin in the first place
But the last minute surge for Rossi caught them by surprise and put them into panic mode -- they thot Queen chrissy was a shoo-in what with all their get out the vote drive and last minute registration by the moveon types and other democRAT operatives in their pathetic push to try to beat Bush -- what a stink
Just keep in mind their biggest attempts at throwing the election were:
1) The very late - and only after being prodded by the Fed's - mailing out of the absentee votes to the military - and these votes were hand taken to some 3rd party remailing place in Snoho County - further stalling -- what total crap - there is a post office at 4th and Lander - duh - duh - duh -- and one out by the airport (Sea-Tac)(Riverton Heights I believe) that is that open until midnight 7 days a week --
2) The 'enhancement' of around 50,000 ballots by a demo'rat majority tribunal -- remember the wee pen mark anywhere near a bubble - voila meant for Fraudoire - the write in for "Cristine Rossi" -- was obviously for Fraudoire -- the unmarked for gov ballots that voted across the board for demo's - obviously another for Fraudoire -- wonder how many of those enhanced ballots were out of the pool of 'voterless' ballots
Do we have an accounting of these 'enhanced' ballots? Have they been kept separate?? Do we know what precints they came from? - how many from the downtown County office -- CRAP - ALL CRAP
WE need to keep the pressure on for reregistration
One of the biggest mistakes made in this country is the pervasive idea that it doesn't really matter who wins and that one is as good as the other - NO DAMN WAY --
Posted by: Bill on June 17, 2005 08:33 AM(1) the initial count is a machine count. A very inaccurate count, because of the different ways voters choose to fill in their ballots. The machine can read only what it is programmed to read -- that is, a perfectly cast vote. Pencil mark inside the oval, etc. So a lot of votes that aren't perfect don't get counted in an initial count. Overvotes and undervotes, according to the machine. State law, however, says that we count every vote if we can ascertain the voter's intent, regardless of the voter's lack of perfecton in casting the ballot. So the first recount, also a machine recount, includes an element of ballot enhancement when election officials can ascertain the intent of the voter (circled the candidates' names, for example, instead of filling in the oval). All mandated by state law, whether we like that system or not. We go to a second recount, by hand, because it is perceived to be the most accurate of the methods of counting ballots, and because it includes the decision-making authority of politically-accountable canvassing boards, instead of leaving the determination of voter intent solely to election employees. That was the reason Dino Rossi sponsored the legislation that provides for the hand recount while he was in the Senate, despite his later hypocritical protestation that a hand recount is less accurate. Situational ethics.
(2)King County screwed up. If you don't think that Democrats are mad, you're dead wrong. I know of no one who would not have preferred to have CG win all of the counts and avoid this contest. That being said, many counties messed up, too. You all want to focus on King County, because you want to believe that someone stole this election from Dino Rossi, but you can't get around the fact that exactly the same errors were made in many other counties controlled by Republicans.
So there is outrage, Larry, and it would be visible if it weren't dwarfed by the outrage felt about the GOP's cynical use of the election contest process to undermine the confidence of the electorate in the government. You all talk about two courts, the courthouse and public opinion. It became apparent back in February when the judge dismissed out-of-hand the GOP's perverted reading of the election contest standard that you were only playing to the court of public opinion and were doing so with unsubstantiated allegations and outright lies. Purely to enhance the political standing of the GOP in this state. At any cost to the people. I would actually feel sorry for the GOP base, even you, Larry, who believed the garbage they were fed by their lying masters, if they weren't so dumb as to continue to believe it. I for one will spend the rest of my life distrusting republicans and working as hard as I can to keep them from office. What they proved in this contest is that they don't give a darn about the people of this state and have no use for truth.
You want to know where the outrage is, Larry? There it is.
Posted by: Northern Coho on June 17, 2005 09:05 AMOh, wait, I forgot, you had that chance and couldn't prove jack!
If you think the evidence was there to be presented, then maybe you should recommend that the GOP sue its lawyers for presenting no evidence of fraud -- or at least refrain from paying them.
Posted by: Northern Coho on June 17, 2005 09:23 AMNo, I think you can only really say that CG received the most "counted" votes. We have no idea who had the msot legal votes. 1600+ illegal votes with unknown results casts seroius doubt on either candidate's claim for victory.
CG won the election becuase a falsified certification said she won. The court did not overturn her certification because the law did not allow for anything other than a vote by vote challenge which was too high a burden.
I can see why CG supporters would be outraged. Their candidate looks horrible in polls right now, and Rossi supporters are outraged becuase they see an election stolen by mismanagement at least and possibly outright fraud.
What gets me is how CG supporters are all angry at Rossi supporters rather than the people responsible for creating the mess we have today. If the situation were exactly reveresed, CG supporters would have felt the election was unfairly decided. You can't be so dense as to not at least comprehend that when someone wins two counts and then looses the third only AFTER HUNDREDS OF LOST BALLOTS ARE FOUND IN A DEMOCRATIC STRONGHOLD, then you have no claim to rationality or objectivity.
Justice was not done in this election, and no one knows who won. The problems were created by King County when they messed up the counts, and exacerbated when they covered up just how inaccurate thier reconciliations were. Had they been up front about it, the election may not have been certified. Maybe it would have been a pain to clean things up, but had they been upfront and cleaned things up, there would be a lot less ammunition for the critics today.
Unfortunately, you are in the unenviable positon of having to defend the indefensible by defending King County and blaming everything on Rossi supporters who keep finding cause with King County's mis-handling of the election. You have to defend King County otherwise you would have to admit that CG's election may NOT be legitimate. CG is losing the public opinion battle because the public KNOWS KCE screwed up and the Democrats are busy trying to justify the situation.
Your beef should land squarly on KCE, not Rossi. Rossi did what any person would do who felt robbed. KCE created the situation that has angered both sides, but only one side seems to see that.
Posted by: Eyago on June 17, 2005 09:33 AM"You can't prove it..."
No, wait, that's their old motto, isn't it?
Posted by: South County on June 17, 2005 09:50 AMOh, wait, I forgot, you had that chance and couldn't prove jack!
If you think the evidence was there to be presented, then maybe you should recommend that the GOP sue its lawyers for presenting no evidence of fraud -- or at least refrain from paying them.
I wonder. What if you returned home one day to find your electronics, jewelery and other valuables missing form your home. You then contact your insurance angent to report that they had been stolen. But instead of taking your word on it, they ask you to prove they had been stolen. To prove it, you have to actually FIND where your stuff ended up AND connect it to the people who stole it, AND demonstrate that those people were the ones who entered your house to take it.
You present a fine level of plausible deniability, but is sounds very juvenile because you are left with "Yes there are ballots that don't belong to veters, but since you don't have actual evidence of someone putting in ballots that do not belong to a voter into the ballot box, then it didn't really happen."
No, we don't have video evidence of a person stuffing the ballot box, but then, you may not have video evidence of the guys helping themselves to your valuables. In the second case, the fact that your stuff is missing is usually sufficient evidence for theft. In the first case, the fact that extra ballots are in the ballot box seems to you to be NOT evidence for a crime.
Again, you are in the unenviable position of having to defend the indefensible because any admission that something WAS wrong casts doubt on your candidate, and thus you again prove your inobjectivity. Unaccounted for ballots show up in your candidate's stronghold, and you think it is perfectly acceptable. Don't be blaming us for this problem. KCE created the problem, why don't you call for their heads? Maybe it's because you LIKE the idea of botched elections as long as your candidates come out on top?
Posted by: Eyago on June 17, 2005 09:54 AMI don't think most people here said that the 96 ballots shouldn't be counted ever, for any reason. Instead, a number of people expressed the very limited and qualified statement to the effect that *the 96 ballots shouldn't be officially counted and added to the official election totals.*
This does not mean we wouldn't want the ballots looked at for other reasons, like say, indications of election tampering, or possible criminal activity. This doesn't mean no one wanted, say, journalists, to tally the ballots and let the public know what effect they *could* have had on the race. These very limited statements of what we did not want the ballots used for does not mean we can't now be very curious about whose ballots they were, and how they voted.
Posted by: California Dreamer on June 17, 2005 09:59 AMHey righties....your boy Timmy and his clan just bought the big one! Another right wing republican crook gets his just reward. It's going to be ANOTHER great weekend!
Posted by: Lush Flimbaugh on June 17, 2005 10:08 AMhttp://www.heraldnet.com/stories/05/06/17/100loc_treasurer001.cfm
See it isn't that hard to do.
Posted by: JDB on June 17, 2005 10:13 AMLushFlim, I vote for Republicans now because the Democrat party has gone insane and drove me out, along with countless others, leaving behind strange ranting people like you.
Posted by: Bostonian on June 17, 2005 10:14 AMSo they're lining their pockets as well and as quickly as possible.
Crooks.
Posted by: Bostonian on June 17, 2005 10:23 AMThat is why this is a bigger problem than Rossi and CG. And you stand by it, fool...
Posted by: Real Men on June 17, 2005 10:23 AMAs you all gloat about a democratic candidate for governor in a far left leaning state that can only get by with 129 votes, hey guess what? She lost, you lost and in '08 there will finally be a "right-minded" governor. Let's see...we've had Dixie Lee, Booth, Lowry, Locke, Greghore....where will the insanity end?
Posted by: all_righty_then on June 17, 2005 10:24 AMDid the Republican lawyers blow it? IMO, yes. Does that change the fact that over 50,000 ballots were illegally enhanced; that the absentees votes were more than 800 than ballots received; that King County elections officials submitted documents to the canvassing board, knowing that they were "inaccurate"; that well over 1000 ballots were cast by illegal voters?
Posted by: Robert-in-Tacoma on June 17, 2005 10:28 AMDon't settle for that.
Posted by: Bostonian on June 17, 2005 10:30 AM"State fines Democratic Party $187,500
OLYMPIA — The state Public Disclosure Commission is fining the state Democratic Party $187,500 for not adequately reporting donations and debts during the 2004 campaign.
Commission Chairman Michael Connelly criticized the party for failing, once again, to comply with state laws on campaign finance reporting.
‘‘Political parties need to be a leader in state politics and you are not setting a good example,'' Connelly said at the Thursday commission meeting, according to minutes. ‘‘This is a serious offense and this is a serious penalty.''
Two years ago, the state settled for a $250,000 fine on the party for another campaign finance violation. The commission suspended $100,000 of that fine on the condition the party didn't break any more disclosure rules through 2008.
The $187,500 fine that the Democrats agreed to Thursday includes that $100,000, plus $85,000 in new fines and $2,500 to pay for the commission's investigation."
Now THAT'S a big one. It's going to another GREAT election.
Comments? Questions? Didn't think so.
"This is a case of sinister election fraud." Dale Foreman
"There is no evidence of fraud."
Judge Bridges
It's indefensible only to you.
Posted by: Northern Coho on June 17, 2005 10:37 AMGot to love ya man, sharp as a razor..
Posted by: Real Men on June 17, 2005 10:40 AMhttp://www.heraldnet.com/stories/05/06/17/100loc_treasurer001.cfm
See it isn't that hard to do.
I think you made the wrong link. I think this is the one you meant to post:
http://www.komotv.com/stories/37357.htm
You see, there is a big difference between one person and an entire political party.
And another note., It is much easier to detect and prosecute illegal activity when you force everyone to actually account for everything it does. I'm sure if the Washington state democrats had 800 or so unaccounted for "donations" to the party rahter than votes for Gregoire, they would have been fined for those too. Unfortuantely, in elections, the burden of proof is beyond provable. If KCE documented correctly every transaction, either the fraud would not have existed or it would have been provable. Instead, they get off because they made a total mess of things and no one can tell any more when bungling stops and fraud starts, and guys like you seem to find it quite acceptable that it remain that way.
Posted by: Eyago on June 17, 2005 10:42 AMI've not read such a mamsy-pamsy doubletalk explanation of outrage in my entire life. You write about outrage (not very convincingly, mind you) - but aren't you the only one?
Who are the Democratic leaders of our state? Gregoire, Murray, Cantwell, Sims, McDermott - please provide me links to their statements that duly chastise King County Elections Commission for wasting millions of dollars and undermining our confidence in elections.
If you express outrage, Northern Coho, that's great! But realize - you're one of the only ones. That's why your party is going the way of the Dodo in the rest of the country, and why Washington is now a battleground state.
Posted by: Larry on June 17, 2005 10:49 AMYou might not have noticed, but the minnow posted the story on the Dems when it occured. Strange he hasn't posted this one.
And you are right, there is a difference between a party poor reporting and a private citizen using the trust of the public to make himself wealthy.
Posted by: JDB on June 17, 2005 10:53 AM"There is no evidence of fraud."
Judge Bridges
It's indefensible only to you.
non sequiter
Nice attempt at misdirection, but I was talking about your defense of the failures of KCE, not the ruling of Judge Bridges. The issue was not whether fruad existed but whether, under the law as it stands that sufficient proof was given to meet the burden. There is a big difference.
The issue at hand however, is your diatribe on who had grounds to be upset, and this all hinges on KCE's failures. In that light Judge Bridges soundly chansitsed them, so you are disingenuous in your reply by quoting an irrelevant statement and ignoreing the relevant one by Judge Bridges.
KCE's election handling is still indefensible, and you are still fail to be objective, and in this case rational since you choose fallacy over fact.
You don't hold office by winning "moral victories". It remains to be seen if this becomes a trend, or is a high-water mark for Republicans in WA state. As much as I'd like to think it is the former, it could very well be the latter. That's why you have to fight for what is rightfully yours when you get cheated, because, generally speaking, once 'Rats get in, they are hard to dig out.
The problem in WA state is that you now have a system where incompetence and fraud are countenanced and given legal cover by the judicial system. The practical implication is that when a close election happens to come along, the result is pre-ordained, the 'Rat "wins", because the 'Rats control the corrupt election machinery.
This abrogates the fundamental principle of elective representative government because it requires, in effect, the candidate of the "out" party to attain a supermajority of votes to win election, and overcome the built-in edge that fraud gives one candidate over another. It's the old "if it ain't close they can't cheat" paradigm. As much as we'd find that emotionally satisfying, there is a real, grave danger to accepting this as doctrine, because it goes against the founding principles of elected government.
Posted by: Interested Observer on June 17, 2005 10:58 AMNow, I haven’t figured out how this ballot then gets by the “enhancement team” with the sharpie pens and white out. Since there were absolutely no consequences to altering 50,000 in the last election, I assume it will be business as usual next time around.
Perhaps a troll could help. Oh, thats right, they don't care.
No doubt your fact that a hand recount is inaccurate is the reason Dino Rossi sponsored the legislation calling for hand recounts.
The discrepancy you point out proves only that King County's accounting got screwed up. No matter how much you want it to, it proves nothing else.
Illegal voters voted. True, and they shouldn't have. Your beef is with them (although I could make a reasonable case that they probably broke for Rossi and Bennett anyway). The rule in this state, set before the election and to which all three candidates were subject, is you don't throw out an election because illegal votes exceeded the margin. You only throw out the election if illegal votes changed the outcome. The GOP had the means to prove that, if it could be proven, but chose not even to attempt that. You can draw your own conclusion from that failure.
The actual testimony about certification was that Way didn't know the number was inacccurate until the 96 ballots were discovered more than three months later. Other counties found uncounted ballots throughout the election count and recount process. That doesn't mean their conduct was nefarious.
Using the Republican method of proportional deduction (completely discredited, I realize), the 96 votes at issue in this thread would have closed the margin between Gregoire and Rossi back to 129. Gregoire won.
Posted by: Northern Coho on June 17, 2005 11:05 AMIf the situations and candidates were reversed, can you truely say that we wouldn't still be listening to the howls of outrage and 'stolen election' from the Democrats? That the Dems would NOT have taken the election to court? We get rivers of bitterness and bile pouring out from the Dems (as they help themselves to our wallets at the same time), even when they got the outcome they wanted out of this whole mess!
"...outrage felt about the GOP's cynical use of the election contest process to undermine the confidence of the electorate..."
Give me a break!
Posted by: Disgruntled IT guy on June 17, 2005 11:10 AMThe WA gov was elected by FRAUD - pure and simple FRAUD
Posted by: Bill on June 17, 2005 11:22 AM
You can count me in
By the way...let's assume ALL of these votes went to Rossi. Do the math. He still loooooooses. So what's the point? You righties are too stupid to know when you've been bested!
Posted by: Lush Flimbaugh on June 17, 2005 12:03 PMIf somebody "unstuffed" the ballot box with these 96 ballots in order to benefit Gregoire, he or she did it in a comically complicated and ineffectual way, don't you think? Only 96 ballots, hidden in various places -- no evidence so far that they were for Rossi.....
I doubt that anyone would've tried to "steal" an election by hiding away 96 unknown ballots (at least a good portion of which seem to be from Dem-leaning voters, as shown by Stefan's update above). Even if you thought you were taking ballots solely from precincts that were going 67% for Rossi 33% for Gregoire, that would still only yield a 32-ballot expected advantage for Gregoire -- and maybe less, or none at all!
So let's just count them up -- following a public records request or whatever. (In the alternative, the voters themselves can probably be polled. There aren't that many of them.)
That will provide some interesting information about 1) whether this was likely some criminal conspiracy and 2) whether it affected the outcome.
(Oh, that's right -- we already know the answer to no. 2. It didn't.)
But as a citizen (and a Democrat) I do seriously want to know whether these 96 ballots were part of some criminal ballot unstuffing. I believe it's unlikely, but I think it's critically important that we get all information that we can on it. Hopefully the information will prove my suspicion right. If I'm wrong, the perpetrator(s) committed a disgusting act, and should be punished severely.
Posted by: Bluebeard on June 17, 2005 12:23 PMPoor reporting? That's how you pass that off? I think there are some former Enron and Worldcom officials in Federal prison that did some "poor reporting" as well.
Seattle Times, March 3, 2005: "Two years ago, in the largest campaign-disclosure fine imposed against a political party in Washington, the Democrats were assessed $150,000 for failing to properly disclose about $7 million worth of campaign donations and expenditures during the 2000 election."
Hmmmmm. Once is a reporting error. Twice is corruption.
Dude, switch back to sensimilla, load "American Beauty" in the MP3 player, and don't hurt yourself trying to think anymore.
Posted by: On the Far Right Side of the State on June 17, 2005 12:55 PMIf anything of a questionable nature is discovered in the future, Mr. Logan would bring it to our attention immediately.
RIGHT TROLLS?
So, who says Ron Sims is not a bigotted rascist?
Looks that way to me!
Posted by: BananaLand (aka Iguana) on June 17, 2005 01:02 PMSomething I point out to my liberal friends - do you think we know of ALL the ballots that were found, and not found?
They 'found' ballots, what, nine or ten different times during the recount process? Leave alone the fact that there was no substantial chain of custody for these. If they 'found' ballots ten times, do you think these were the ONLY ten times, and we know of ALL of them?
And the flip-side - now we know of 96 ballots they didn't count. Do you think these are ALL of them? Especially considering KCECs obfuscation along the way?
Part of the problem is what we DO know - the other half pertains to what we still DON'T know. And thanks to Stefan, we know quite a bit more than we would have from KCEC and Seattle media.
We need to keep searching for more - because there's probably more out there. Whether it's criminal stuffing or unstuffing is moot at this point. What don't we know, still, and who's not telling us?
Posted by: Larry on June 17, 2005 01:06 PMMs Way simply lied by omission. She said she didn't KNOW that there were more ballots credited than the number received (minus rejected), until presented with evidence to the contrary, which is true. But she also didn't KNOW that there were NOT more ballots credited than the number received (minus rejected) because she KNEW that she did not KNOW how many were received. She was coached by her lawyers to answer with nothing other than this meaningless truth in order to avoid purjury, and to hope that she wasn't asked a direct question that required her to either lie directly or admit that she lied when she stated on the form that the number of ballots credited plus the number rejected equaled the amount received.
You may defend her if you wish, but it merely exposes you as having the same lack of integrity (and willingness to lie to get your way) as she and Heunekens have. That's because I assume you are smart enough to know what we are saying, but you continue to to twist and spin the facts. That makes you, in my opinion, a worthless liar.
Posted by: srogers on June 17, 2005 01:22 PMReference to your post that said this "Your son is a great American because he was raised by great Americans. God Bless all of you."
You must also believe that Paris Hilton is a great American too. A person is not great because they have great parents, they are great because of their own actions.
"But what if all the left handed people had their votes counted on Thursday, and all the right handed people had their votes couned on Monday and if the people who lived in West Seattle were told to stand on their right foot while voting and the people who lived in Kirkland were told to stand on their left foot while voting, well THEN Rossi would win."
How pathetic.
I repeat. The HAND PICKED REPUBLICAN JUDGE IN THE MOST REPUBLICAN COUNTY IN WASHINGTON, WITH THE HELP OF A REPUBLICAN SEC OF STATE AND A REPUBLICAN AG went through your so-called case, line-by-line and said YOU LOOOOOSE!
Get over it. Or get out. I hear that Alabama is a good place for feeble minded people who want the church to tell them how to think. Why not try there?
Posted by: Lush Flimbaugh on June 17, 2005 02:14 PMYou should know that ballots weren't "found" 9 or 10 times. Mis-estimating the number of absentee ballots to count and then figuring out the correct number is not "finding" ballots. Having improperly rejected ballots counted is not "finding" them -- they were never lost. Etc.
As to the possibility that there are additional ballots that weren't counted, sure one can always speculate. Maybe the fact that so many of the 96 found ballots are non-Seattle is due to the fact that there are 400 uncounted Seattle ballots out there somewhere that haven't been found -- and which would only have increased Gregoire's margin.
You can't prove to me that my speculation is less valid than yours. It's all speculation. The key is that none of it constitutes evidence that there was fraud in any part of this election -- just like the good judge said.
Posted by: Bluebeard on June 17, 2005 02:18 PMMis-estimating....improperly rejecting...
Glad to see you think that KCEC screwed up as well! Hope you help us clean house.
Posted by: Larry on June 17, 2005 02:58 PMGreat--the very people who were willing to lie to the public with the ballot report are looking into this.
I'm so comforted.
Posted by: Michele on June 17, 2005 03:06 PMTC "Chip" Small was actually the first judge assigned, and he recused himself as there were possiblities that dolts such as yourself would say exactly what you're implying.
"IN THE MOST REPUBLICAN COUNTY IN WASHINGTON ...."
Wrong.
Chelan County is a red county, for sure, but Lewis County is considered by many to be the most conservative county in the state.
And that has absolutely nothing to do with the case. By your reasoning (and I use that word generously), only conservative judges preside in conservative counties, and liberal judges in liberal counties.
"WITH THE HELP OF A REPUBLICAN SEC OF STATE ..."
Wrong.
Sam Reed actually hindered the Republican case.
"AND A REPUBLICAN AG ..."
Wrong.
Rob McKenna had nothing to do with the election content.
And regarding your Olympia comment? chortle. The police state is just fine when it's hauling off Rethuglikkkans, right? Truthfully, I'd rather we ALL meet in Olympia and have some personal, um, conversations.
Posted by: jimg on June 17, 2005 03:30 PMOr you could leave! I hear that Canada is a good place for moral relativists who don't like the fact that Republicans are kicking serious booty all over the country.
Have fun up north, you Canuck!!
Posted by: Larry on June 17, 2005 04:43 PMWe can debate what the definition of IS, IS until the next general election without changing even one person's mind concerning the election contest.
I take comfort in the fact that 75% of the people of Washington support a re-vote, and even after the trial had ended 58% believe Rossi won the election, while only 38% maintain that CG did.
You're right, fraud was not proven in Chelan, but it most definately was proven in the court of public opinion.
Don't forget that perception IS everything. The corrupt democrats may have won the court case, but in the process of doing so, may have sewn the seeds that will lead to them losing control of Washington State. The next general election should be interesting.
Directions: Circle one, and only one answer, for each question. Answer all questions. Do not circle both T and F. You must circle the letter completely. Graders will make no effort to divine "test-taker intent."
1: I am outraged by the news of incompetence displayed on the job and on the stand by King County Elections. T/F
2: I am outraged by the testimony given of a report being "completed" by filling in a number other than what the report purports to tally. T/F
3: I am outraged by news of ballots leaving the legally established chain of custody. T/F
4: I am outraged by the election challenge, and all of those pesky FOIA requests by Sharkansky, without which none of these things would have seen the light of day, let alone a drop of ink in the media. T/F
Bonus question: Which of these 4 questions is irreconcilable with the other 3?
I have a habit of posting as I ponder. It drives the trolls nuts! There are some things that the liberals simply cannot stand...Pondering is one of them and wondering is another! The most frightening words a liberal can hear are:
"Hmmm...I wonder?"
This is because it constitutes freedom of thought. There is no deviating from the script in the liberal Democrats world! No one is allowed to venture beyond the PeeCee barricade!
It must send them into convulsions when I post something that inspires others to consider possibilities!
Posted by: Deborah on June 17, 2005 08:09 PMDon't sell yourself short, you are exactly the same caliber as Stefan.
Brad:
I'm sorry, apparently you were not paying attention, the GOP admitted in answer to the Secretary of State's interrogatories that hey had no proof of improper enhasment of ballots, and dropped that claim from their law suit.
Oops..., Kind of embarrasing to be you.
Posted by: jdb on June 18, 2005 01:09 AMThe claim of illegal ballot enhancement was not a claim made in the lawsuit. There were no "interrogatories" because there was no claim or evidence presented. And there certainly was no admission by anyone that there was no proof because without any claim or evidence presented there can be no interrogatories.
Any more urban legends you want dispelled?
Oh and by the way you spelled "enhancement" and "that" wrong.
Next time try a little harder, you won't look like such a fool.
I stand by my opposition to King County election workers illegally enhancing ballots. It was done troll and it is a violation of the law. The fact that the PI and Times do not object to it does not make it legal.
Northern Coho at June 17, 2005 09:05 AM who wrote:
"... but you can't get around the fact that exactly the same errors were made in many other counties controlled by Republicans"
Please elaborate as to numbers and kinds of mistakes in other counties other than King.
I have the impression that mistakes in other counties were miniscule compared to King. I also know that mistakes in other counties were investigated and corrected or reported.
Now that latter point is the most important. To put it into perspective suppose Nicole Way or Garth Fell had made it public during the election that the ballot reconciliation process was broke, that there was no way to reconcile voter registrations with ballots hence there was no way to certify King County returns.
What do you think would have happened if those King County election officials had come forward and told the truth during the final count certification?
Do you know what the law statutes are that govern reconciliation? I suggest you review them before responding (and I sincerely do hope you respond). Please take your time and remember to think of the truth coming out during the election and not during the contest.
Thanks in advance for your comments.