Initiative 912, the No New Gas Tax initiative has cleared the hurdles and the petitions are now available for collecting signatures! The campaign has until July 8 to collect 225,000 valid signatures. Details on obtaining petitions, here
Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at June 07, 2005 04:43 PM | Email ThisCome on everyone, let's send Olympia a CLEAR message.
Also, click on the orange ribbon link at the bottom of this page to buy bumper stickers that say "read my lips, no new gas tax". a
The trolls only hope that we will move on. Move on we will, all the way to Olympia.
Posted by: Robyn on June 7, 2005 04:49 PMBut hey, if you fools want to spend more money fighting the gas tax than you would pay if it stays law, go for it. As a liberal, I don't like paying taxes any more than you righties. But then again, I don't like my tax money going to build a big profit for What A Dick Cheney and Halliburton in Iraq either but sometimes, you just have to pay your fair share.
Posted by: Scott on June 7, 2005 04:54 PMMike (who's still reeling from the 26% increase in his property valuation/one year in Pierce County that he received today)
Posted by: MikeF on June 7, 2005 04:57 PMAnd if you don't have a button-making machine and live in or near Spokane County, I'll have some of the buttons at the Spokane County GOP open house on the 10th and the convention on the 11th.
Posted by: ScottM on June 7, 2005 05:05 PMThat's like a pig saying he doesn't like s**t.
How else can you build your "diverse" and "sustainable" Utopia of the future where you zip around on monorails like George Jetson over "greenbelts" to your fiber-optically based "non-imperialistic" job without taxing us peons who will never have a viaduct, floating bridges or monorail?
And please, like you favorite organization is named, please "move on". Is all you trolls can do is to bash Bush and Cheney? It's SO played. Really.
Posted by: On the Far Right Side of the State on June 7, 2005 05:07 PMThe manager pulled it right off the computer and printed it. Simple really.
Posted by: no seattle gas tax on June 7, 2005 05:08 PMI can't wait to approach the Prius drivers.
Then, instead of demanding tax increases so that government can fulfill its basic functions, they can ask for tax increases to fund community service at UW, the Arts Commission, the Office of Minority and Women's Business Enterprises, and all the other things they want to do.
No one has any business claiming that a tax increase is necessary for road maintenance when the state has enough money to fund Mobile Home Relocation Assistance.
Now, Mobile Home Relocation Assistance may or may not be a good thing. But that is what the government and its partisans should be requesting a tax increase to fund, not road maintenance.
Until government funds its core functions first, Americans who value their liberties must oppose any tax increase, no matter how necessary the state says it is.
Posted by: ScottM on June 7, 2005 07:02 PMI have to make an exception with a total lunatic who signs as Scott just to point out why.
He said,"spend more money fighting the gas tax than you would pay if it stays law..."
Let's see, 5 billion dollars divided by 5 million people is 1 thousand dollars per person. I donated $25 for my wife and I and will spend maybe 1 day getting signatures. That means on average my return for $25 and 1 day will be $2000.
That's losing money? That's liberal math at work.
BTW, those Repbulicans that voted for it are lame ducks as I type this is strictly a Liberal Democrat and Liberal Republicrat tax but Republicans will make their liars pay.
Posted by: Ron A. on June 7, 2005 07:04 PMI am going to get 20 and hand them out to various acquaintances of mine over on Bainbridge Island. Surprise, there actually is a number of Rupublicans over on the Island.
Posted by: Janet on June 7, 2005 07:25 PMHappy hunting.
bwanafriend
Posted by: Bwanafriend on June 7, 2005 08:46 PMWatch and learn.
Posted by: Ron A. on June 7, 2005 08:47 PMAnd in an election that fall, voters overwhelmingly canceled the pay raise.
You too can be like Helm. Can't think of your congressman's name? Wondering why all those guys and gals running for governor sound so much alike?
Why not take lawmaking into your own hands?
For rest of article go to:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/politics/classroom/grassroots.html
I love it when you guys turn on each other.
Posted by: Northern Coho on June 7, 2005 09:40 PMHopefully we'll see how popular this massive Gas tax is to the citizens of this state!
Posted by: Gs on June 7, 2005 10:57 PMSpeed and organization are critical here!
Posted by: GS on June 7, 2005 11:10 PMI ask this because Fraudoire and the 'Rat minions have considerable political and emotional capital invested in this gasoline tax law. They aren't going to take lightly them uppity citizen-voters trying to overrule their lordship on taking more money from the peasants. Didn't the 'Rat-controlled WA legislature recently make voter referendums illegal, or some such thing?
Posted by: Interested Observer on June 8, 2005 07:01 AMFar right, how much are you paying for the Monorail?
Posted by: CandrewB on June 8, 2005 08:09 AMGeorge Patton said something to the effect that fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of mankind. In other words, if this initiative passes, they will, indeed immediatly go about the business of neutering it. And we have to immediately go about the business throwing other initiatives in their faces. No document, not even the constitution, will serve as a perpetual bulkhead.
There are two choices: perpetual war, or surrender.
Posted by: Dogbert on June 8, 2005 08:42 AMLike "un"Sound Transit, it does nothing to correct any transportation problems. The only thing it will accomplish is to raise revenues, hurt business, and begin a process of what is sure to be even more taxes, later.
IT IS NOT THE AMOUNT OF THE TAX! it is the disingenuous "transportation plan" that solves nothing.
For me this represents a fundemental lack of respect for the transportation issues that face this state as a whole.
To add insult to injury, the State then passes an "Audit" bill that ensures AGAINST accountibility, effectively shutting the auditor out of doing, what should be, his job.
If the viaduct falls down, so be it. If it is really that unsafe, then close it today. If it is really necessary to replace, then re-prioritize the Transportation expenditures and fund it.
Posted by: no Seattle gas tax on June 8, 2005 08:52 AMKeep the bridge and viaduct until they are no longer safe, then close them for good.
In the mean time, divert the $2,000,000,000 to make the rest of KING, Snohomish, Pierce, Cascadia, Mason and Thurston counties more transportation friendly. Move people and goods.
EXPAND THE ECONOMIC ZONE AROUND PUGET SOUND rather than continue to direct economic activity into a 1950's modle of Seattle eutopia.
Posted by: redirect the gas tax on June 8, 2005 08:58 AMOr is there an alternative, something outside the box of conventional thinking, maybe something that would slay the Hydra once and for all, instead of just hacking off heads and having two grow back to replace them? A good number of ideas along those lines have been noted in this blog on various threads. There are probably others. Maybe we should use those as our weapons of mobile warfare?
Posted by: Interested Observer on June 8, 2005 09:02 AMImagine if they would have gone to the voters with truthful representations of what they really planned for our State in the first 6 months in office. Of course they would have been defeated if they had told us the truth.
This initiative process is our way of getting back at the democrats who pull off the big lie every election in suburban districts. It’s funny how incensed they get when we actually try to hold them to the lies they told us.
I never fall for it, but it is amazing to me how often it works. Please people, vote for or against democrats like McAuliffe and O’Brien based on what they do, not what they say.
1. Do they have enough money now? (where is the 28 cents that is being collected now going), and
2. Do you really believe that after spending all of this money, that we will have any more capacity than we have now? Look at recent projects. We get bike lanes. We get HOV lanes. The Tacoma NArrows is a perfect example. Now, we have 2 general purpose lanes each way. After they are done, we will have 2 general purpose lanes each way. They have no intention of improving anything!
And let's not forget that while both state and local governments are crying poverty, they are getting enormous windfalls from property taxes, due to rising real estate prices. Liars. They are rolling in money, and they are so greedy that they have to make this grab on top of it all. Chutzpah!
Posted by: Dogbert on June 8, 2005 10:36 AMA similar thing happened in NJ back in the 1980s, with Flim Flam Jim Florio, who campaigned, like Fraudoire, on a theme that seemed to say, I won't raise taxes (unless I have to), and the sheeple bought it. Within a few weeks of being installed as dictat..., uh, Governor, he raised the state income tax because "he had to, it was an emergency", there was no alternative. Do you really think, given the speed with which this law was enacted, they seriously looked at alternatives, or was this thing all packaged up and ready to go once Fraudoire was crowned, I mean, inaugurated?
Posted by: Interested Observer on June 8, 2005 10:51 AM1. I didn't say anything about the eastside. I live in pugetopolis, and have been suffering from this dysfunctional transportation system for over 2 decades. This isn't a new "emergency", and has been horrendous for as long as I can remember. We have fed the pig before, and have effectively nothing to show for it.
2. Since there will never be any improverment of anything under this current regime in DOT, no mater how much money you through at them, that is a specious choice. How can you get less than zero bang for your buck?
3. The real choice is between staying in this whorehose, or moving to a state like Idaho, where the public servants generally do believe in serving the public. And taking my buisness with me.
Posted by: Dogbert on June 8, 2005 11:55 AMI say we make this current crew walk the plank in the next election and get a better class of swabs in there.
Posted by: starboardhelm on June 8, 2005 12:14 PMYou know, before moving here, I made two of the worst morning commutes in the US: through the Springfield mixing bowl on I-95 in the DC suburbs of Virginia and through the Renton S-curves on I-405.
I recently went back to Virginia. In the 10 years or so I have been gone, they must have spent billions on redoing the whole I-95/Beltway interchange. This was accomplished after they lowered the vehicle tabs costs liek WA did and without raising the gas tax.
Meanwhile, in the great Pacific Northwest, my gas tax has been raised several times in the last few years, and NOT ONE DAMN THING has been done to I-405 except environmental impact studies.
THAT is why I am against this latest gas tax. The people running this state don't have one frickin' clue as to what is going on. In fact, I suspect the neglect of the roads has been purposeful because of the whole Green/NIMBY movement in this state. Let them pay the piper now if the viaduct collapses or the bridge sinks. I hope they are all on it chanting "No justice, no peace" when it does.
Posted by: On the Far Right Side of the State on June 8, 2005 12:15 PM10-4, good buddy .. er .. aye aye!
Posted by: Dogbert on June 8, 2005 12:25 PMI guess that is what I was beating around the bushes, but didn't come out and say. So I'll say it: I believe that there is a fifth column inside of DOT who see their mission as eliminating the private automobile, and diverting as much money as possible to the environmental industry.
And the only way that problem will ever be solved is to disband the DOT, and start over again with people committed to serving the residents and taxpayers.
Posted by: Dogbert on June 8, 2005 12:32 PMAnd the only way that problem will ever be solved is to disband the DOT, and start over again with people committed to serving the residents and taxpayers.
I must agree with you. I have always wondered how different our transportation system would be if these were elected positions.
Posted by: Mr. Grabbit on June 8, 2005 01:01 PMNow you're talking! Of course, if you put good people in charge, that will slow down, but not stop the fifth column. The problems, I'm afraid are organic. A need for a cultural change is an understatement. As a minimum, they need to lay everybody off, and then require them to interview for their old positions. Moonbats need not apply. And for the next year, they are all on probation. All managers are replaced. That might break the back of the fifth column, but I doubt it.
Posted by: Dogbert on June 8, 2005 01:13 PMShe ran on a NoNewTax basis! Not NoNewGeneralTax as she now states.
That is why this initiative will pass hands down!
Posted by: GS on June 8, 2005 02:27 PMNow..you want MY vote on an initiative? Don't just moronically block any new taxes because you're too cheap to tolerate a lousy 8cents/gal. (You seem to have no problem with Bush, whose failed international policies have raised gas prices over $1/gal). You want REAL support on an initiative? THEN COME UP WITH A BETTER SOLUTION!
Thats right. Put up, or SHUT UP. Create an initiative showing WHAT roads you're going to fix, and HOW your going to pay for it. Let the people vote on that. Tired of excess waste in the budget? Show us where it is! Propose an alternative budget with the waste cut out. The GOP has NEVER done this.
Look at the national GOP. They control all branches of government..yet spending has skyrocketed. Waste abounds..in both military and civilian sectors. Senators like Ted Stevens(R) are the most wasteful assholes in the book. SHOW US YOUR SUPPOSED FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY.
Whats worse than tax and spend? Just spending...without paying for it.
An astute listener on the radio pointed out a fantastic analogy last week - if the government were to take this transportation plan to a bank to get funding in the form of a loan they would get laughed at and promptly rejected. This is because there is no real budget for any of the porposed "fixes". And more importantly there is not enough money to fund ANY of the major projects NOR is there any revenue source identified that funds the additional expenditures.
A fiscally responsible government will have the costs laid out BEFORE raising our taxes and identify the source of any additional revenue needed BEFORE passing legislation. This transportation plan is the government asking the people for a blank check. That's not a plan.
Posted by: Palouse on June 8, 2005 03:41 PMLet them pay for the roads and other basic state responsibilities first. Then we can talk about tax increases to fund this other stuff.
I realize this will be a huge change in the way people think about government spending, but that in itself says something horrifying about our political culture.
Posted by: ScottM on June 8, 2005 03:47 PMThat's why I said "one thin dime." If the state doesn't even have the money to fund its basic functions, then it certainly shouldn't be spending any money at all--not a penny--on anything else.
And I'm not necessarily opposed to funding all this other stuff (I am not a libertarian). I'm just saying that the basic functions have to come first. Then we can argue about funding the other stuff.
If you don't have the money to pay the rent, do you go out and buy a DVD player (even an inexpensive one), then go to your boss and ask for a raise so you can pay the rent?
If you're lucky, the boss will merely laugh at you instead of firing you.
I'm not opposed to DVD players. But you shouldn't go spending the rent money on one.
That's what the state is doing now. They're funding Mobile Home Relocation Assistance, and then asking for a raise to pay for road maintenance.
I say fire 'em, but until 2006, all we can do is laugh at 'em.
Posted by: ScottM on June 8, 2005 04:28 PMYou still don't get it. It is A solution. What solutions has the GOP come up with? Show us an alternative! Nobody denies that there is waste, and inefficiency in government, just as there is waste, mismanagement and inefficiency in most large corporations. Since you Republicans always blather about running government like a business..let use an analogy.
Its up to the voters (a.k.a shareholders) to either approve of the management and board of directors, or fire them.
Last time I checked, I've never heard of shareholders directly controling budgets, or projects.
Now lets look at this statement. I hear it alot on KVI
"As long as the state has one thin dime to spend on the Arts Commission, the Office of Minority and Women's Business Enterprises, and Mobile Home Relocation Assistance, they have no business asking for a tax increase to fund road maintenance."
Ah. So, you would like to reprioritize state funding. Apparently, the majority of representatives that YOU elected don't agree with you. You have two choices. Vote them out, or, write an initiative that eliminates those departments.
Brad...
How moronic. I certainly don't fear the voters. Its quite obvious that they voted en mass for a Democrat legislature, and at least half voted for a Democrat governer. If the initiative passes, its the will of the people. However...If you don't like the job your legislator is doing..fire them. Don't try to micromanage them. We need a gas tax now because the money previously allocated was eliminated by I-695.
Oh..and I'm quite the capitalist thank you...We have our own "revolution" planned against the current Dickensonian theocracy in Washington. If Bush were a CEO, he'd be fired for incompetence (then again,he's never run a succesful business, why should we expect different from him now?)
Posted by: Proteus on June 8, 2005 04:42 PMWait, since when does the government need to beg us for money for every single project? Taking the corporate analogy further. WE elected the management. We trust them to do their jobs. We do NOT get to micromanage them, because we don't understand the big picture. Every 2 years, we get to vote, to either keep them in office, or switch to new management. Obviously, the majority of voters in this state think they're doing a good job. If you don't like it, invest in another company (a.k.a move to Texas..a wonderful hellhole).
Posted by: Proteus on June 8, 2005 04:51 PMYou're a very silly person (and that's me being polite) if you think there's a theocracy, or anything like it, in this country.
Posted by: ScottM on June 8, 2005 04:54 PMYou know what? We in Eastern Washington didn't vote for a Democratic legislature. And all my democratically elected officials voted against the gas tax. But the apparatchiks from the west side crammed it through anyway. That is geographical dictatorship, my ignorant friend, and it is taxation without representation. We in Eastern Washington has no fair chance of having our voices heard.
You want a revolution, pencil neck? It's coming!
Posted by: On the Far Right Side of the State on June 8, 2005 05:20 PMAs a side bar to this issue, we must, in the future come to grips with the DOT structure. The commission is unelected and unaccountable. I would prefer an elected Trans. director, or even the Governor, who is elected. When the commission was formed it was to distance Trans. from politics. It's useful life is now over. I say we give the problem, forcefully, to the pols and force them to account for what they do with Trans and get it away from the commission. I hope another initiative won't be needed and the Legislators will focus on this.
If DOT could produce a -non political payback- plan to the people for consideration progress could be made.
When we shove the I-912 down the queen's throat and give the Dem legislators something to think about they will go back to the drawing board and produce a product we can buy. Hopefully!!
If and when we dispose of the Trans. Commission a culture change could take place in DOT. I hate to blame all of the DOT folks working the line when leadership sets the tone.
Posted by: bwanafriend on June 8, 2005 07:32 PM"It's SUPPOSED to be hard to overturn an election. Sorry, those are the rules, and we have to live by them; common sense be damned!"
"We decided that you made it to hard to raise taxes, so we're changing the rules."
Huh.
Posted by: RookieRick on June 8, 2005 07:55 PMI don't care to do it myself, but anecdotally, my experience is that the place is moonbat-infested. The culture didn't get that way overnight, and it isn't going to be reversed overnight.
The bad thing about a moonbat infestation is that even if only 1 in 5 or 1 in 10 are hardcores, that is their religion. It is their reason for existance. Literally a 5th column. They're Machiavelian, and will stop at nothing. Even with good leadership from the top (which is a very good place to start), they will constantly be pulling monkyshines from the inside, just like at the State Department.
It will take a little more than a change at the top (though that would be a good start).
Posted by: Dogbert on June 8, 2005 08:01 PMGrrrrrrrr! No no no no NO NO NONONONONONONONONO!
AAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!
Forgive me, but use of the word "literally" to mean "not literally" is one of my pet peeves.
Even the original fifth column was not literally a fifth column.
Posted by: ScottM on June 8, 2005 08:22 PMWe the People..A very scary phrase to this bunch in Olympia and the dem machine in King County. Proteus, next time, just have the “Governor” and all the lying Senators and Reps tell us the truth in the campaign and we will not need to micromanage them.
The PEOPLE are the check and balance of power of a renegade legislature. It was the LEGISLATURE that subverted the will of the people by throwing out the 2/3 majority rule for tax increases. It was the LEGISLATURE who subverted the will of the people by declaring DOZENS of pieces of legislation "EMERGENCIES" so they wouldn't have to face a referendum. It was the LEGISLATURE who after a convincing defeat by ballot measure to raise the gas tax went ahead and raised it anyway by 5 cents and then raised it AGAIN by another 9.5 cents to the highest in the nation. Then our former Attorney General goes BACK on her word about raising taxes and pushes the entire thing through. It's arrogance at its worst and it must stop.
It's not enough to just "vote for someone else" next time. This type of blatant disregard for the public will cannot go unchecked.
Posted by: Palouse on June 9, 2005 07:54 AMYes, but what do you do when they ignore the vox populi? My understanding is that in your state the dictat..., uh, legislators, have already ignored the one voter-approved initiative about the supermajority vote for tax increases. You can pass all the initiatives you want, but if those they are intended to bind simply ignore them, or pass legislation invalidating them, or find some corrupt or idiotic judge to rule them invalid, where do you go then? They've essentially voided the referendum process by abusing the "emergency" provision, making everything they pass in the way of spending measures an "emergency".
The hackneyed "vote for someone else" bromide is inoperative because if the same incompetent and corrupt officials that controlled the last election are the ones who will be in charge of future elections, how can you ever expect a fair shake? Voting becomes a useless exercise if those who count the votes are really the ones in control.
The honest people in WA state are rapidly running out of options. You're about to be faced with a tyranny not unlike that which drove our forefathers to do things like have "tea parties" and stand on bridges with firearms at the ready, and write documents that begin with words like "When in the course of human events..."
Posted by: Interested Observer on June 9, 2005 09:45 AMOur only outlet (short of the aforementioned revolt) is this initiative process. WHEN this passes by a 60+ percent margin, it will put the current legislature (including those RINO's who voted for this) and the former atty general on notice.
Posted by: Palouse on June 9, 2005 10:00 AMIt is up to the people generating these initiatives to run the cost/benefit analysis and decide if sending a message makes the effort worthwhile. But at point, if nothing concrete comes of it, my instinct tells me that people will tire of passing ineffective initiatives. In that case, those in power who ignore the initiatives count on apathy setting in. IOW, enough people accept it as the status quo, "the will of the people", and just lay down. But there may be alternatives (keep your powder dry, and don't let Fraudoire's gun-grabbers get you).
Posted by: Interested Observer on June 9, 2005 10:15 AMPassing this gas tax repeal will not repeal the 5 cents they passed already (without our vote), but it's something. And if they try it again, we'll organize again.
Posted by: Palouse on June 9, 2005 10:22 AMSo I wish all of you the best on these initiatives. I hope you are successful, and some of the tyrants actually change their ways. But I just can't help but think of Jefferson's words in our Declaration: "In every stage of these oppressions we have petitioned for redress in the most humble terms. Our repeated petitions have been answered only by repeated injury.", speaking of King George, of course. Hopefully, Queen Chris will be listening.
Posted by: Interested Observer on June 9, 2005 11:16 AMAgain, as an interested, outside observer, to me it seems the whole place is degenerating into a madhouse. How can one ever hope for a fair vote in such a chaotic system?
Posted by: Interested Observer on June 9, 2005 01:43 PM