How are the local newspapers editorializing on yesterday's election contest decision? Are they concerned about the fact that election officials in King County and elsewhere violated the laws on ballot accounting; disenfranchised more voters than the margin of victory, and that the number of surplus ballots over identified voters is many times the margin of victory? Are they concerned that officials illegally certified the election with inadequate information and falsified reports; troubled that election officials covered up these errors and/or crimes for months after the election should have ended by spreading disinformation and sandbagging public records and discovery requests? Are they concerned to learn that there are essentially no consequences to election officials for such misconduct? are they skeptical that Ron Sims pledge to clean up King County Elections office is as credible as his earlier claim that it had an accuracy rate that any bank would envy? Does it bother them that illegal voting is both easy and irreversible? that the bar for citizens to procure judicial relief from election official misconduct and/or vote fraud is all but impossible? that activist groups will take Judge Bridges ruling as a green light that in vote cheating, "anything goes"?
I'm sure somebody in the mainstream media is concerned about at least some of the above. But you wouldn't know it by reading Nicole Brodeur, Joni Balter or the Seattle Post-Intelligencer editorial page.
Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at June 07, 2005 10:11 AM | Email ThisIt is long past time for the sleeping giant to wake up. And, I do not think that we do ourselves any favors by name calling or suggesting we behave in the same way that the illegal voters did.
I for one, am getting tired of being at a every stoplight behind a car full of bumper stickers that represent every leftist ideology out there. It is time for those of us that hold moral convictions and our fiscally conservative to voice our opinions respectfully, yet loudly. Or, are we too fearful?
If you don't stand for something you WILL be subject to whatever those who are willing to stand, dole out. So either stand on your own two feet or open up your mouths and be spoon fed whatever Gregoire, Sims and the like are ready to dish up.
Posted by: Robyn on June 7, 2005 10:23 AMJust like their friend Jimmy Carter who travels the world to whitewash the elections of Banana Republics, the Seattle Media are quick to excuse any problems in the election here last Novemeber, and / or admit that without changes, our system (or lack thereof) would be just a susceptible to another close election.
We live in the Banana Sound.
Posted by: Jeff B. on June 7, 2005 10:24 AMBrodeur said:
The real enemy is the state's election system, specifically the King County elections division, where Bridges found "a lack of communication, lack of taking responsibility for action, a lower level of accountability and a difficulty documenting procedures."
Balter said:
Bridges had nothing nice to say about King County election offices. He heard enough testimony about election mistakes to give him headaches.
And the P-I editorial said:
Voters also have an opportunity to demand changes in slipshod election procedures brought to light by the examination of Gregoire's narrow victory over Republican Dino Rossi.
How do you measure concern?
Done-O Rossi "can now walk around the state for (almost) four years with an arrow in his back", but what does that offer for the fools who voted for the sore loser?
Completely LOST on your self-centered thinking is that these very same errors happen in every single election held at city, state, and national levels. Why even your 3rd grade hall monitor ballots were at times mishandled.
There is simply no reason for closer scrutiny of some elections and not others. Can you imagine the firestorm that rains down if this happens in Cleveland and Jesse Jackson shows up to observe that it must be racism if these things are happening in a black-majority precinct? Just because there is no "White History Month" doesn't mean it is any more fair to manipulate the vote (as only you fools are attempting to do) in a white precinct when you wouldn't dare do same in a black one. (or in ANY one precinct, and not another)
Your dumb solution of having a second election is completely assinine when you consider that it is entirely IMPOSSIBLE to recreate the voter mindset SUCH AS IT WAS in early November, 2004... when the law says we hold the election for the position of Governor.
How come you jokers have only selective respect for the laws that you helped to create?
You want to cite all of these election-related laws as something that matters, and then you can't show any regard for the most simple laws, also related to elections, and such that any 4th grader who knows how to tell time could figure out.
Then there is the issue of your desire to blame all of the voters who voted for the right candidate, for the fact that you voted for the wrong one. If you have an issue with the dept. of elections then raise your issue with them, and don't make adversaries out of the people who pay the freight in your state. Got it? Good!
Once and for all:
Done-O Rossi is exactly that...
When you see the moron on the street, with an arrow in his back, just offer to twist it a few times and then yank it out and put him out of his self-created political misery.
Posted by: KingCountyIsTheOnlyOneThatMatters on June 7, 2005 10:40 AMI also just finished listening to Paul Berendt say that maybe the King County Auditor should be an elected position. Sounds like even the Democrats realize they need some distance from the current county executive.
Posted by: Bellevue Dad on June 7, 2005 10:41 AMThe United States Attorney's Office for the Western District of Washington can be contacted via the following:
Email: PublicComment.USA-WAW@usdoj.gov
MAIN
Seattle Office
U.S. Attorney's Office
700 Stewart Street
Suite 5220
Seattle, WA 98101-1271
Tel: (206) 553-7970
Fax: (206) 553-0882
ISDN: (206) 264-2765
Website: http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/waw/
Get McKay of his duff!
Posted by: starboardhelm on June 7, 2005 10:41 AMhttp://www.nonewgastax.com/download.html --- Download copy of I-912 petition
King county is the only bla,bla,bla.
Posted by: Brad on June 7, 2005 11:00 AMhehe, "Every valid signature counts."
I couldn't resist. That is what yesterday's ruling did to me, made me wonder if every valid signature really does count.
Posted by: Robyn on June 7, 2005 11:01 AMYour true email address says it all....such arrogance!! And such idiocy!
We'll come up from Clark Co. for that BBQ...just let us all know.
Posted by: Susu on June 7, 2005 11:05 AM1. having to identify each invalid vote and voter.
2. certifications of counties performed outside the bounds of election laws can stand. (KCE certified without reconciliation).
3. documents with known errors submitting to certification boards with the errors undisclosed are not grounds for invalidating elections.
Had Rossi said, "These questions are no longer about me and this election. We took our best shot at invalidating the election. But there are precidents in Judge Bridges rulings that we must not leave unchallenged. The Judge ruled today that illegal votes have the same validity as legal ones. That poor performance by election officials counts as well as exemplary performance (perhaps more so).
We feel the WSSC needs the opportunity to pass judgement over these rulings. After the WSSC acts, Washingtonians will know how we should conduct elections in the future."
Perhaps the WSJ Editorial board will have something more pithy.
P.S. And what's this bit that Rossi took no questions at the press conference. If ever there was an opportunity to set forth the common sense of the situation....
Posted by KingCountyIsTheOnlyOneThatMatters at June 7, 2005 10:40 AM
Mr. KingCountyIsTheOnlyOneThatMatters,
Your name says it all..... I hope you do not have children, or plan on pro-creating....It is attitudes like yours that keep my blood boiling. I hope you enjoy YOUR County, because I will do all that I can in MY county to upset your spoiled apple cart......
I will continue to Cut the hell outta trees so when you visit their are none to enjoy.....At least they grow back, have you ever seen a forest planted in concrete? They dont grow well in your forever polluted County.
Enjoy your County Goverment, cause it will cost you plenty, unless of course you are not a Taxpayer.
King County Stole the legitimate votes in this election and you know it, and you seem very proud of the fact.....You need to grow up.
To all others reading this blog.....I apologize, but I couldn't hold it in any longer, and I feel better for the rant!!!
Posted by: Chris on June 7, 2005 11:09 AMIt's up to the voters. Dump or get off the pot. Forget the media. Remind your "elected's" that you are out there and watching. Why America never gets a 99% voting turnout still baffles me, but is one reason why this 'merde' is allowed to continue.
Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on June 7, 2005 11:16 AMThere will be an efficiency blip at KC/Oly. They will manage to verify every signiture on the petitions, eliminating any that are not EXACTLY per code, they will be able to get any illegal sigs through felon lists and illegal residents. They will even be able to determine the intent of some signitures. Any way possible to eliminate just enough to prevent us from voting on it.
Come next election they will have lost all this ability.
Posted by: fred on June 7, 2005 11:18 AMGOOD HOME TRAINING!
I have said before that there is a certain element in our society that has been brought up to admire anyone who has a brand new Cadillac Escalade parked in their driveway regardless of how it is that they came by it and this includes purchasing it with money they had embezzled. Furthermore their admiration would not be tempered by the knowledge that although it is known that this is how they came by the money, it could not be proven in a legal sense therefore they got to keep the money and spend it as they wish.
In these days of ‘situational ethics’ and ‘moral relativism’ people as twisted as the above are the only one’s who would consider to the former Attorney General’s minions stealing of an election as a ‘win’ and would subsequently have even a modicum of respect for her.
What has transpired here is a scandal and a disgrace and Gregoire and her fellow Democrat's are simply examples of how crass, classless and deplorable human behavior can sink yet still garner admiration from a sizable minority.
I have no doubt that you will continue your claims, just as you do here. By all means, continue to cry "Wolf!" Every time you do, another independent becomes a Democrat.
Posted by: Northern Coho on June 7, 2005 11:44 AMExactly the same situation here.
Posted by: Scott in Carnation on June 7, 2005 11:48 AMhttp://radioequalizer.blogspot.com/2005/06/cozy-media-politics-ties.html
Posted by: Larry on June 7, 2005 12:18 PMThe OJ jury pleaded that someone tell them how to find OJ not guilty? While the judge told Washington's media and public sector types that they are right, Gregoire is the governor.
Posted by: ARP on June 7, 2005 12:22 PMRossi said yesterday, "I continue to believe that mounting this election challenge and shining the lights on the various problems of our election system was the right thing to do," he said. Any logical person would have to agree with Rossi. I was reading the Columbian this morning (Vancouver’s newspaper) and couldn’t help but notice the stark contrast between Rossi’s statements and that of Democratic Party Chariman Paul Berendt.
“It's a shame Dino Rossi didn't graciously concede the election in December when all the votes were counted," state Democratic Party Chairman Paul Berendt said. "Instead, he put the people of Washington through this expensive and unnecessary legal battle. They have shown that they will say anything, they will spend anything and they will do anything to tear down Christine, and that needs to stop," he said.
A truly classy and appropriate response from Berendt at the end of the closest election contest in history. Does anyone in the Democratic party remember when Gregoire called Rossi’s 200+ victory a tie?
Terry McAulif, Howard Dean, Paul Berendt… and the Democrats wonder why their power continues to erode.
How will you feel when I and my fiancee (a recent immigrant to the U.S., and not yet a citizen) both vote 10 times each for David Irons in the upcoming election. Judge Bridges, the Democrats, and YOU think it's okay!! Illegal voters don't cast illegal votes - the votes are LEGAL!
Will you be disenfranchised and unconcerned about it? Your vote no longer counts, because I vote multiple times! Thanks!
Posted by: Larry on June 7, 2005 12:23 PMGod bless him, Dino took a shot at Gregoire when he 'hoped she would live up to her campaign promises' (which she has already broken) AND he informed them he 'ain't going nowhere', which I took to mean he'll be back for another contest and it won't be to leave the state by winning against Maria Cantwell.
You have our support Dino, and more importantly our respect. God bless you.
On another note, after reading that left wing blog, I can sure see they are busting with pride that their girl won. However, after reading their posts, their threats, their disgusting language, I have to wonder how proud SHE is to have them as her supporters. One can only hope that as the grow up out of student mentality and mature into adults, their ability to reason with also mature. If indeed they don't, their party has far more to fear than the Conservative movement.
Now that the truth has won out, wouldn't it be nice (since we will not get an appology and only spin from the above) to have an article detailing all the claims the above made which were proved to be utterly false? I'm sure someone in the mainstream media, or even the blog-o-sphere wants to hold them accountable for their dissembling?
Posted by: jdb on June 7, 2005 12:53 PMCan you say OJ?
And if not, and a judge says there's no proof that Jim West diddled ANYONE, are you going to accept THAT and apologize?
I thought not.
Posted by: Cheryl on June 7, 2005 12:58 PMThe charges were NOT proven false. There was simply not enough legal evidence to bring about a proper ruling.
There are many criminal cases where you cannot necessarily 'prove' a person's guilt in a court of law, but you know w/o a doubt that they are in fact 'guilty'. Proving something in court is different than knowing something outside of court.
We know there were illegal votes...we know that most of them were in areas leaning toward Gregoire (not all, but most)...and many missing votes come from Rossi leaning areas within King County.
Just because the judge did not accept the evidence offered doesn't mean that intelligent people can't see the obvious disaster that was this election.
Posted by: megs on June 7, 2005 01:15 PMHe is free now to play Bridges' decision for all it's worth, and spend the next four years wandering the state with an arrow in his back, like a soldier wounded in the fight for a balanced budget — and fewer poor kids getting basic health care.
Why trot out that canard now? It just makes her look vindictive.
Posted by: Sid on June 7, 2005 01:46 PMYour point is valid as to voting by individuals, but not as applied to Gregoire's election. There is no evidence to suggest that any person voted 10 times in that election. There is some evidence to suggest that a very few people voted twice. It should be determined who they are and the cases of those individuals should be investigated for possible prosecution. But you don't throw out an election because a very few people broke the law, unless those very few votes tipped the election. The Republicans could not prove that that had happened, although they had every opportunity to do so.
Posted by: Northern Coho on June 7, 2005 01:53 PMSo you agree that people who vote multiple times are breaking the law. How does it make you feel that your party stated, and the judge ruled, that these VOTES are legal?
Whether it's multiple votes, or non-citizens, or felons, or dead people, it doesn't matter. My question is - YOUR party argued in court that these votes cast by illegal voters are actually LEGAL votes! Whether or not it affected thisS election is a different question.
Does that embarrass you, knowing that your party traded in long-term electoral security for a short-term gain for Gregoire??
Ruling that illegally-cast ballots are legal votes hurts ALL of us, even you. I'm happy that my party fought against that, albeit in a losing effort.
First of all, congrats on the mail order bride.
Second, the judge did not say that illegal votes are legal. He in fact deducted them from the gross total used to set the qualifying level for initiatives. What he said is that without a showing that they voted for one canidate or another (heck, the GOP couldn't even show they actually voted for Gov), he was not going to guess at how they voted, which is what the GOP was asking him to do.
This is exactly what the law says. And, if you think of it, it makes a great deal of sense. If you want to overturn an election, you have to prove that the outcome was effected by illegal votes.
Cheryl:
The fact that the accusations (correct word) were not accepted by the judge does prove that here was no evidence to back up those accusations. Anyone can make accusations. I have it on good authority that reverse vampires, along with the RAND corporation, were using laser beams to blank out pro-Gregoire votes. I doubt that accusation would be upheld in court, but you are right, it just might be true. However, if I'm an attorney and don't want my ass handed to me by a judge, I don't say that I will prove it to be true when I have no evidence that it is.
There is a similarity between this case and OJ. I have not seen a case more poorly presented since OJ until Dale Forman stood up. The difference, the OJ prosecution has no excuse because they had evidence. Dale Forman had a loser, so he made what he could of it. Shame it came back and bit him in the end (I said from the start, Judges don't like grandstanding for political gain in their courts).
I don't know if Jim West diddled a minor. If a judge rules he didn't, so be it. I have nothing to appoligise for in this situation (I don't think I'm mentioned the Hon. West once in a post, but since you brought it up, why is it that the most fervently anti-gay right wingers always turn out to have a thing for little boys?)
Megs:
Actually, we only know that the Rossi campaign looked only in pro-Gregoire areas. We know that he Dems, looking in only pro-Rossi areas were able to even that up pretty well. We have no idea, except for the four that the Dems deposed and gather evidence on, who any of them voted for. With the $3 million or so that the GOP wasted in this election challenge, you think they would have gather some evidence, no?
And the judge did accept the GOP evidence. He in fact bent over backwards accepting everything that the GOP wanted to put in front of him. However, as anyone who reviews that evidence or listens to Judge Bridges' oppinion knows, all that evidence did not show a single instance of fraud or vote stuffing.
Posted by: JDB on June 7, 2005 02:58 PMYour party got laughed out of court, but perhaps you can do better. Please enlighten me. Show me one case of a person "getting away with it" that changed the outcome of this election. Just one, that is all I ask. Dale Foreman Couldn't. Korrel couldn't. Rossi Couldn't. The minnow couldn't. John Carlson couldn't. But, just maybe, your great mind can.
This is one of the problems I have with rightest, they love making inflamatory accusations, they just never have any proof to back them up.
Posted by: JDB on June 7, 2005 04:12 PMThe difference there of course is that this time, we had a fair and impartial person in charge of the election. Both of the above figures should have NEVER been allowed to oversee an election.
Posted by: proteus on June 7, 2005 05:02 PMYou have your head buried so far it is totally lost. The MSM went back to Florida and counted the votes after the court findings and Bush won in Florida according to the Miami Herald, the NY Times, the Washington Post and the WSJ. Katherine Harris was right and did her job according to the laws of the state. The only parts of the state to have screwed up votes were the democratic strongholds.
The same holds true in Ohio and Bush won that election by over 100,000 votes. The only places that had voter problems were the black democratic strongholds in the Cleveland area and they processed fewer people than the surrounding white democratic strongholds. The state secretary of state handled the elections strictly according to the laws.
Conversely in Washington state you have a judge who came right out in court and told you that the King County Board of Elections screwed up and messed up the election. The only problem with his finding was that he did not bother to investigate what the result of the screwup was. He said that the legislature should decide that or the State Supreme Court should. He basically threw up his hands and said it was so screwed he couldn't figure out what was right. That does not speak well of your electorate out there at all. Maybe you should take the time to figure out what the actual results of the election should have been now that you have the time and the latest "found" votes. Until the next time they find some more votes just in case they have not "found" enough to win for the dems again.
Posted by: dick on June 7, 2005 05:33 PMThat is an entirely appropriate standard. It has nothing to do with "getting away with something." To allow unsubstantiated allegations to undo an election has a greater risk of allowing someone to "get away with something." To paraphrase you, "not proven guilty" doesn't always mean that it happened but can't be proven. It often means it didn't happen. So if you can't prove or don't go to the effort of proving that the illegal votes or misconduct changed the outcome of the election, get over the loss and move on.
Posted by: Northern Coho on June 7, 2005 05:57 PMCome on, Stefan. The MSM is appropriately concerned with Rossi's failure to deliver any credible evidence either of fraud or that Gregoire did not win the election. The accurate subtext of those articles is that the only fraud on display was the Rossi case! Bridges' opinion makes that devastatingly clear. You all had nothing, but that didn't stop you. You had no qualms about making outrageous claims without supporting evidence of any kind, never mind the damage you might do to our society.
Really? Didn't we learn in the past six months that there were 1800 or so voterless ballots in King County?
This is what makes the ruling so frustrating for me (NB: I'm a New Yorker, and would have voted for Bennett if I lived in Washington). We know, and King County pretty much admitted, that somebody had to have committed voter fraud -- how else would there be 1800 more ballots than voters? Yet because it can't be determined who put those ballots through the machine, the ballots have to be counted as legal.
To make a reductio ad absurdam, what if King County had botched things up so badly that there were a few hundred thousand voterless ballots and a turnout of over 100%? At some point you have to get to a point where the screw-up outweighs the margin of victory, and from what I've read, Judge Bridges even punted on determining where that line falls.
Posted by: Ted Schuerzinger on June 7, 2005 08:24 PM"First of all, congrats on the mail order bride."
Thanks for the congratulations!! My bride is the woman for whom I've always been waiting. She's not a mail-order bride, though, and I don't know why you would say something like that. Not that there's anything wrong with it, mind you, but it's not my thing.
If you'd like to go on a double-date sometime, and bring along your beautiful wife/girlfriend/whatever, I'd be happy to regale you with tales of our love. Meeting in Krakow, Poland; touring Europe, visiting Prague, Rome, Florence; learning each other's languages (English is her fourth language; Polish is my third). I couldn't be happier, and she feels the same way!
Put your real email in the comments and we can all go out to dinner sometime! It'll be fun!
Posted by: Larry on June 7, 2005 08:50 PMLike provisionals being counted without verification.
Like ballots being found and lost and found and lost during the "recount" process.
Like numbers being made up to fake a reconciliation report that is REQUIRED BY LAW.
Maybe "you" didn't learn any of those things, but "we" did.
"Ghetto culture?" what is that supposed to mean?
More to the point, what nefarious mean did Christine Gregoire use to win this election? There was some incompetent work in King County, but do you think that was the direction and control of Govenor Gregoire? Direct your anger at Ron Sims, Sam Reed or any of the County Auditors that had problems in this election. (As an aside, the great leason from this trial is that the errors were pretty evenly spread around, the GOP just looked in King County because that helped its case).
I can't ask you to respect Govenor Gregoire. I have no respect for GWB. But I can ask you to respect the office, and respect that she is not responsible for the problems that you complain about. I can also ask you to hold those who (IMHO) mislead you in the election contest. Be as critical of the right as you are of the left.
Larry,
As I've said before, the email address works, it is my junk mail account, I recomend one to everyone (since I started having one, I've cut my junk mail on my real account in over half. Anytime you need to give a email in a public location that can be trolled, or to a web site that will probably sell it off, use it). I do check it every few days, and have responded to the three or so direct posts I've recieved from my posts here. I am actually much nicer in person than I am here.
I made the mail-order bride reference just because it seemed strange the way you brought up your fiance. Your story sounds very nice, though. Shame there isn't a calmer place on this board where you could post it. Isn't Florence nice? Madrid and Florence were my favorite cities on the continent.
They are simply waiting to interview the next Tent City residents and a host of homeless citizens for the in-depth political angles on "what it all REALLY means to us."
Penetrating journalism. Heart-wrenching investigations. Hmmm...I wonder who is "going under cover" for the scoop? (Oh--better bring your 'scooper' too!)
Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on June 8, 2005 11:00 AMLet's have some fun, and turn that statement on it's ear...
Getting people to accept yet another jump in taxes? How ya goin to talk them into that? Won't they want to know what the results will be?
See that's the catch. We demand better results than endless "studies," half-finished projects that run at MULTIPLES of their original budgets, and massive kickbacks into the general fund so the politicians have more "mad money" to play with.
We demand that government fund essential services first, instead of always holding them hostage in deference to stupid pork-barrel garbage.
When the "Governor"'s website has a quote like "I just finished signing 516 bills passed by the Legislature, a new record" and SHE THINKS THAT IS A GOOD THING, something to BRAG about, that tells me that our government has lost sight of its purpose.
Posted by: RookieRick on June 8, 2005 08:21 PMLet's talk about results. We know since Eyeman and company have turn back every funding for road improvements that our roads have gotten worse and worse. Boy, talk about results.
Posted by: JDB on June 9, 2005 11:05 AMIt might be convenient for you to portray it as a case where somehow Tim Eyman "and company" turned back every funding source our poor pitiful revenue-deprived state could possibly milk. But let's remember who "and company" refers to: a majority of the voters in Washington. That would be the same majority that was NOT convinced that their money was being well-spent, and will not be convinced until the state starts prioritizing and funding CORE GOVERNMENT FUNCTIONS instead of trying to set "records" for the most bills signed in their pursuit of ever increasing "revenue" to finish no actual projects. THAT MAJORITY was crafted not by any initiative writer. THAT MAJORITY was crafted by none other than "our" legislators through their pompous attitude toward us as nothing more than a bunch of money trees that they can just continually pluck for dollars to throw after the wasted dollars they already have.
You want to talk results? Our state government lies to us, and defies us, and we kick their butts for it. Pretty simple, really.
Posted by: RookieRick on June 9, 2005 04:17 PM