May 25, 2005
Ask a Justice

How might the State Supreme Court consider the inevitable appeal of Judge Bridges' ruling in the election contest? The best way to find out is to ask a (former) Supreme Court Justice. Mike Siegel had former Justice Phil Talmadge on his show yesterday and they had a very interesting discussion, which included this exchange (courtesy of KTTH):

Siegel: If you were still on that court .. what would be some the focus ... the central series of questions you would ask during that appeal?

Talmadge: I would be looking at the impact on the elections process. Both in particular in the sense of the number of votes that are flawed and how that might have affected the outcome and the questions about the outcome itself and whether the public could be satisfied that the elections process is a fair one that's handled appropriately. I think both issues are important and the latter is not one that's been given a lot of attention. One of the things we take for granted is the sanctity of the voting process. That when we go in and vote our vote counts. and that's not diluted by illegal activities or ballot stuffing or anything else. That's kind of a cherished thought in Washington State that our ballots mean something and that they're not played around with by election officials. If I were the judge I'd be concerned about that larger issue as well as that particular one about how many provisional ballots were voted how many felons voted and all those kinds of things.

Siegel: Given that then would you incorporate the larger policy question ... into your decision?

Talmadge: I would try to. Because I was always a big believer in kind of laying out what are called "black letter" rules of law. You can read the opinion and you have a clear understanding from what I was involved with and what I like to see the courts do. you have a clear understanding of what the rule of law is when you're done reading the opinion. You don't have any mysteries. it's not something that's hidden. there's no hidden balls. it's right there. this is the rule that you understand from reading this opinion. and in elections i think its particularly important. these case don't come up very often. when they do they're really important and it would be nice in this case to have a clear cut explicit black letter rule of law kind decision that tells people exactly what their vote means and exactly what it would mean to overturn an election if it was flawed and so that future situations can be governed by it.


Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at May 25, 2005 01:28 PM | Email This
Comments
1. Very Interesting! And wasn't Talmadge one of the state's supreme court most "liberal" judges? Correct me if I am mistaken.

Raylene

Posted by: Raylene on May 25, 2005 01:56 PM
2. "wasn't Talmadge one of the state's supreme court most "liberal" judges"

Yes, he was. Note that he didn't say anything about the merits of the case, he just said that he would rule clearly.

Posted by: Dogbert on May 25, 2005 01:59 PM
3. Hey, he understands rule of law. Bravo!

Posted by: Bostonian on May 25, 2005 02:00 PM
4. Sure, that's what Talmadge SAYS. But, in reality, the State Supreme court made a large number of very wishy washy decisions with very ambiguous "decisions." They invented the concept of "meretricious relationship" (means you are married when you aren't married) and every opportunity they had to define what it meant they made it even more ambiguous.

Actually, the had no business creating the concept, because that is for the legislature. It was a classic case of judicial activism.

So, with this crew on the court, I wouldn't expect a fair decision or an explanation for why they made it that follows logic.

Posted by: DeadManVoting (aka Iguana) on May 25, 2005 02:02 PM
5. Actually, it looks to me like Hamilton ought to be wearing the dress, and Durkan Dyken wearing the suite and tie.

But, is it always the case that there is gender ambiguity and confusion with WA state Dems?

Posted by: DeadManVoting (aka Iguana) on May 25, 2005 02:07 PM
6. I wouldn't trust Talmedge as far as i could throw him (and he's a big guy)

Posted by: righton on May 25, 2005 02:20 PM
7. Iguana, what's your point? We need dems to have a babe lawyer in order to criticize their facts? Ok, she's an average looking woman lawyer. Lambast her fealty to Gregoire and the policies, not her avg looks

Posted by: righton on May 25, 2005 02:23 PM
8. And better, yet, as soon as possible we need to rewrite the elections appeals statute. The bottom line is that while contesting an election should never be somethng that happens often, it should also be able to take in all aspects of a failed election to make a very deterministic result.

If our current statute was simply less tolerant of a close election where either fraud, or incompetence places the result in doubt, this would be a clear cut case.

And it's going to be somewhat rare that an election is ever this close.

If the Democrats prevail, we will have decided an election soley because King County did a poor job of handling and accounting for ballots, and not because of a mandate of votes cast by Washingtonian Citizens with their full voting rights intact.

That's a tragedy, because the closeness of the election clearly shows that at this time, the people of the state are divided. The allocation of political capital in this nation is by every intention a zero-sum game. This was the precise purpose of Madison's reasoning in Federalist #10, to balance the factions. http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa10.htm

It is never more important for us to know the will of the people through the result of an election than when it is close.

Posted by: Jeff B. on May 25, 2005 02:44 PM
9. Rule of Law? My read is that Talmadge would happily write new law...clearly.

...and whether the public could be satisfied that the elections process is a fair one that's handled appropriately.

That last is the job of the law writers, not a judge.

I guess we should be grateful he didn't cite election expectations in Russia or N. Korea as justifications for a decision.

Posted by: iconoclast on May 25, 2005 03:04 PM
10. People should not dismiss the Judges comments...."The Integrity of our election process is at stake here and to do anything but toss the election result because of all the flaws would forever undermine future elections"....is the R's best argument.

Posted by: Roger on May 25, 2005 03:57 PM
11. All Eyes will be upon the King County Elections dept in the midterm elections, where hopefully a few of the Tax Happy idiots in State Gov will be thrown out! Dean and Bill can get replaced when Sims get's his walking papers hopefully at that same time! That alone would clean up the King County elections department more that anything else.

Posted by: GS on May 25, 2005 04:14 PM
12. Talmadge would like to have Christine Gregoire's job, that's what. Who knows what he'll do about that in future.

Posted by: Michele on May 25, 2005 09:38 PM
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