May 24, 2005
Does David Postman Actually Believe This?

That was the question that kept popping into my mind as I read through this piece in the Seattle Times.  Much in the article is unobjectionable, but I kept running into odd chunks like this first paragraph:

There likely would be no trial opening today on the November governor's election if the legal fight and political fortunes of Christine Gregoire and Dino Rossi didn't fit into the larger interests of the national political parties.

The election was extraordinarily close, and there were, as nearly everyone admits, serious problems in the King County elections office.  There would have been a lawsuit even if the national parties had completely ignored the dispute.

And the second paragraph is equally strange:

The trial — and its all but certain appeal — will either confirm that Gregoire was legitimately elected or that errors, fraud and illegal votes robbed Rossi of his rightful relocation to the Governor's Mansion.

Given the enormous mess in King County, the trial will not do either.  What we already know is that, thanks to blunders in King County (and elsewhere), it may never be possible to know who was legitimately elected.  That is — as Postman would know if he had ever listened to Dino Rossi — the official position of the Rossi campaign.  Which is why Rossi did not ask for Gregoire to be thrown out, but for a new election to be held.  Does Postman not know that?

And then in the fourth paragraph, Postman returns to his national party thesis:

In a nation with a near-deadlocked electorate and little interest in compromise or concession, Democrats and Republicans have turned the once-rare postelection legal fight into a standard piece of political campaigns.

Court fights over elections have increased, at least according to law professor Richard Hasen.   But have they become "standard"?  Not according to the numbers Postman gives; there were, says Hasen, 61 court fights over elections in 1996 and 250 in 2002.  Does Postman realize how many elections we have in this country each year?

In the ninth paragraph, Postman describes Democratic feelings, accurately, as far as I can tell.

National Democrats want to exorcise demons left by the too-quick-to-quit Gore and show they can brawl with the best of Republicans.  That's been the tone of fund-raising pitches, which gave state Democrats the second recount they needed to make Gregoire governor.

But he does not seem to understand just how bizarre those feelings are.  Gore quit only when, after a 7-2 vote by the Supreme Court, he and his allies on the Florida Supreme Court ran out of plausible options.  And his strategy of seeking recounts only in selected Florida counties inevitably created the belief, at least among Republicans, that he was trying to steal the election.   And for those who may been confused by the often made claim that Gore wanted to count every vote, let me note, as I have before, that his lawyers explicitly rejected a recount for the entire state of Florida.

Finally, the article has two strange omissions.  First, Postman never says who began the court fight in the 2000 election.  In case he has forgotten, the man who began that fight, with all its nasty consequences, was Al Gore, who is a Democrat.  The court fight wasn't an accident, it was something Gore and his party chose.  And they made that fight in a way that could never lead to an outcome that Republicans would accept.  (I thought, and said at the time, that Gore would have been justified in asking for a recount of the entire state of Florida.   Instead he chose instead to concentrate on a few heavily Democratic counties, all with recent histories of vote fraud.)

Second, Postman does not seem to realize that many Republicans would start this discussion not in 2000, but in 1993, when the "Motor Voter" Act was passed.  Let me remind him of the nickname many Republicans gave it then: the "Motor Cheater" Act.  Republicans believed that the law would make vote fraud easier and that the fraud would usually benefit Democrats.   There has been enough evidence since then so that we can not dismiss or ignore those concerns.   I believe, along with many other Republicans, that vote fraud is becoming more common and that it nearly always benefits Democrats (often against other Democrats).  Does Postman realize how common this belief is among Republicans?  Nothing in the article suggests that he does.

(It occurs to me that Postman may not be the only Democratic journalist who does not understand Republican thinking on the issue of vote fraud, so I have prepared this brief remedial reading list for them:

The journalists need not agree with the views in those books, of course, but they should at least understand that many Republicans believe that vote fraud by Democrats is a serious and growing problem.  And, if they look at my site, they will find, from time to time, evidence supporting that belief.)

Posted by Jim Miller at May 24, 2005 09:14 AM | Email This
Comments
1. Judge Bridges just DENIED! the democrats motion to stop the Republican's fraud charges from moving forward. I'm still listening to the rest.

Posted by: Orange Robyn on May 24, 2005 09:25 AM
2. Well put, Jim!

Posted by: starboardhelm on May 24, 2005 09:31 AM
3. This is not a presentation to the PI or Times editorial board. Nor is it a love sharing mutual back patting session before the King County Council.

Oh no Lucy there will be no free passes issued here. We are actually going to talk about what has been going on in this State in a court of law.
Letting Democrat election workers print blank ballots, illegally enhancing ballots Move-ON types like you casting multiple votes.

While the outcome is in question one thing is not. The truth will finally be told. I’ll continue to watch closely on just how the PI and Times will spin all of this. Will Jean Enerson and Dennis Bounds be outraged at their fellow Dems?
Will Ken Schram finally admit there was something to this all along?
The reporters in this town are just shameful. They heard at a King County Council meeting that all is in order and everything is fine. They took their marching orders like good little comrades and did what they were told.

Trust, the one thing these news phonies always talk about in the commercials about themselves. What a joke. They will never have any credibility with me.

Posted by: Brad on May 24, 2005 09:55 AM
4. Word to the wise.... When "someone" erases my comment and you reply to it and refer angrily to "Lucy" and there is no comment by anyone called Lucy, you just look flat-out crazy. You really need to wait awhile to reply because my comments are frequently modified or erased altogether. I guess that's the "blogmaster's" interpretation of the 1st amendment.

Posted by: headless lucy on May 24, 2005 10:03 AM
5. I hope people realize what a Rossi win in court will mean. It will only prompt the 'Rats to cheat more flagrantly in future elections--enough to overcome the proportional deduction. Because, if most every fraudulent vote is for the 'Rat candidate, but only half of such votes are assumed to be for the 'Rat candidate, election fraud will still pay.

Posted by: Far Star on May 24, 2005 10:21 AM
6. "You really need to wait awhile to reply because my comments are frequently modified or erased altogether."

Or, you could actually post something that doesn't need to be modified or erased. Ever think of that?

And your first amendment rights do not apply to this website. Don't like how it's run, you pay the bills and do it somewhere else yourself.

Posted by: jimg on May 24, 2005 10:39 AM
7. This Postman guy is full of bovine solid waste. We had a contested gubernatorial election in Maryland in 1994 (where the margin was 6,000 votes). That was not some microcosm of a great struggle between the large national parties. It was simply one candidate suspecting fraud and contesting the election according to the rules. From my observations, Dino Rossi is doing the same thing in a reasonable manner. Elections with larger margins have been rerun.

Keep up the good work!

Posted by: Ron on May 24, 2005 10:48 AM
8. When the polls closed CG was 7,000 votes ahead. When the votes were finally totalled she supposedly had lost by a small margin. These "mystery votes" or last minute "surge", if you will, all came from precincts where those Black box voting machines were used that leave no paper trail. This happenned in Ohio and Florida as well. Reason leads me to believe that Rep. fraud was involved in these wins. The thing that infuriates Reps. in WA is that they did the same sort of fraud as the other states and still lost.This thing about the voting machines is verified in a statistical study which I will not reference right now so that someone will challenge my facts and them I can dramatically point you to my unimpeachable statistical source.

It's true. Statistically speaking, there's no way those machines are'nt rigged, and what's more, Stefan knows it and doesn't care.

Posted by: headless lucy on May 24, 2005 10:51 AM
9. Jim--
Great analysis of the article. I just finished Fund's book. Very scary about election fraud nationwide. Like finally watching how your restaurant food is REALLY handled. One always suspected it, but not on THAT scale.

I repeat one of Fund's interesting points: To vote, Mexican voters in THEIR country need a photo i.d. complete with mag strip, fingerprint, hologram, signature and other tamper-proof features. ...and WE landed on the moon?! We need to fix this voting mess NOW & for good! Parties aside, sloppy controls are sloppy controls--period.

Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on May 24, 2005 10:56 AM
10. Jim,

There are millions like Postman walking around everywhere. I appreciate what you are saying, but democrats have provided themselves the luxury of never having to observe facts or make sense about anything. It really is just that simple.

If liberals like Postman used the same discernment and judgment in their routine daily activities as they do about politics, none of them would live through a single day. The fun part for conservatives is that liberals make such obviously damned stupid remarks and decisions. The unfortunate part is we have to live with them, because we can't kill them.

Posted by: Amused by liberal morons on May 24, 2005 10:59 AM
11. This article was typical small-minded Seattle thinking. These people are doing pretty much Mexican politicians always do - trying to blame all their problems on some big bogeyman in Washington.

Democrats, Postman included, would like to have us believe that this challenge is all about some bigger cultural fight between right wing and left wing. They wont accept that it is a fight about having clean elections, because they are the one's that made the election dirty.

This also explains why King County has lurched so far to the left. People are so naive, they believe the bogeyman theory, and so in defiance, or perhaps in knee jerk reflex, they try to do the opposite of what they think the bogeyman wants.

Pathetic.

Posted by: DeadManVoting (aka Iguana) on May 24, 2005 12:22 PM
12. Amused: You'd like to but it's not just Reps. who exercise their 2nd amendment rights. Believe me, I know where you're coming from. Maybe it will be from those stiff, chilled hands you've spoken of. But we couldn't really do that, could we?

Posted by: headless lucy on May 24, 2005 12:30 PM
13. And one more thing. It's always: "We believe in free speech, but not here and not for you." A former employer thought it was OK to infringe on my free speech. Then they got the papers from the Federal gov. Then my employers said that they could not find the paperwork that proved they punished me for exercising my right to free speech. Then the Fed. gov. said: That's OK, we already have copies of the papers. Then I got a fat settlement check in the mail to drop the lawsuit. The message is this: Just because you pay for a space does not mean you have the right to tell me what I can and can't say. You can ban ALL comments if you want to , but you have no right to ban only comments that you don't like. I realize freedom of speech is an alien concept to you Reps., but I assure you that at least one corporation in this fine land of ours now Knows it exists in fact as well asin theory.

Posted by: headless lucy on May 24, 2005 12:44 PM
14. Lucy, time to go back to your padded room and take your thorazine

Posted by: righton on May 24, 2005 12:50 PM
15. HL,

Under that reasoning then, any newspaper must print unedited any letter to the editor that I send or stop publishing all letters to the editor.

PW

Posted by: PW on May 24, 2005 12:54 PM
16. thank you for this bit of sanity. You are helping to rid us of the problem just by posting this piece.

Posted by: Michele on May 24, 2005 12:58 PM
17. writeoff: I know nothing of padded rooms and thorazine. I've read Bertrand Russell, though.

Posted by: headless lucy on May 24, 2005 01:06 PM
18. Lucy, you'd better let those dissent-crushing, jackbooted thugs at Democratic Underground know that they cannot delete posts.

Of course, you'll have to let the rest of us know what portion of the law says that the operator of a privately-controlled website must allow all comments to be displayed. The "delete comment" function of Movable Type is there for a reason; it's called editorial control, and it's something that all bloggers exercise to one degree or another. You're not headless, it only appears to be so because it's lodged in your colon.

Posted by: timekeeper on May 24, 2005 01:45 PM
19. "Just because you pay for a space does not mean you have the right to tell me what I can and can't say. You can ban ALL comments if you want to , but you have no right to ban only comments that you don't like."

That is so patently wrong, there's no sense in even continuing this topic. And bringing up a point about employment law?

Lucy, if you can't grasp this simple concept, how do you expect anybody to take you seriously on more complex issues?

Really.

(tkeeper - lol)

Posted by: jimg on May 24, 2005 02:12 PM
20. Headless lucy, the commie-socialist thingy. You should go back to DU where you are owned.

Posted by: Howard on May 24, 2005 02:32 PM
21. Lucy just told me all I want to know---Quick Draw McGraw with the federal law suit. ("America is good to me, no?")

And conservatives are bullies & extortionists? Your "former employer?" Freedom of speech is great as you deposit a settlement ("threat check"). Did you nobly donate it to a charity? ("It's the principle, not the money.") How many settlements did you collect at each of your employers?

Victim status + bully (government suit) stick = classic liberal. The world does not play nice. Waaaahhh---Pay me!!!

Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on May 26, 2005 05:38 AM
Post a comment
Name:


Email Address:


URL:


Comments:


Remember info?