May 23, 2005
It's in the P-I

The Seattle Post-Intelligencer reports "Setback for GOP in governor election trial":

Republicans suffered a major blow today to their late-developing strategy to claim fraud in the 2004 governor's race when a judge said that claim cannot stand as a key to their legal challenge of Democrat Christine Gregoire's 129-vote victory.
I suspect reporter Greg Roberts is engaged in wishful thinking. I was watching that part of the trial and my recollection more closely matches David Postman's report of 2:26pm
Judge Bridges has put off deciding whether Republicans' fraud charges can move forward in the trial. But he may be on his way to another decision that splits the difference between Republicans and Democrats — something he's done before.

Bridges agreed with Democrats that fraud has not been an official part of the Republicans' claim. But he stopped short of excluding the evidence.

A legal expert e-mails:
I'm still digesting today's arguments, however, I think that Roberts overstated Bridge's comments. It is worth paying very close attention to the presentation of [the Sec. of State's lawyer] Tom Ahearne ... I think Tom is probably closer to how the judge actually thinks than any other attorney present.

So the judge may conclude that election fraud - as a legal term of art - is not part of the GOP case (and based on Bridge's comments, I think that is likely), but that the election irregularities that form the substantive basis of the fraud allegation may be introduced as evidence to support an invalidation of the election.

Judge Bridge is trying to make sure that the hearing goes forward without getting bogged down by premature procedural determinations (hence his "quicksand" comments). I suspect he will read the depositions very carefully tonight.
I've asked Greg Roberts to send me Bridges' exact words upon which the report is based, in case the rest of us have missed something.

UPDATE: Greg Roberts responds:

The key phrase, to me, was "The court does not believe that there is a fraud causation element in this case." Then he said, "for whatever that's worth. I'm not saying the evidence is not admissible."

Before saying that,he said that "Fraud has never been alleged in this case," and that fraud has to be specifically pled in very circumscribed ways.

The important thing, as I understand it (which is based in part on conversations with lawyers or activists on all 3 sides), is that if you go with fraud and make it stick, you can overturn the election under the Foulkes v. Hays standard, which does not require showing that illegal votes made the difference in the election -- only that there were more illegal votes than the margin. Without the fraud allegation or causation, you're stuck with the Hill v. Howell standard, which requires showing that illegal votes made the difference.

The evidence bit, as I understand it, means that the GOP can try to bring in the evidence about what might be called the Nicole Way votes, despite his ruling on causation.

I've tried to clarify this in a revised version of the story, which should be posted soon.

I'll leave it to the legal experts to weigh in on the interpretation

Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at May 23, 2005 05:22 PM | Email This
Comments
1. Did I see Greg Roberts sitting three rows back, on the Democrat lawyer side? No, couldn't be, he would find an impartial aisle seat, wouldn't he?

Posted by: Splatter on May 23, 2005 05:32 PM
2. Unfortunarely, this is typical for the Seattle MSM. I thought things went fairly well today with a great first punch by Mr. Foreman. We will prevail!

Posted by: Don in Yakima on May 23, 2005 05:34 PM
3. Respondant: "We object to this evidence, you honor, on the grounds that it is evidence of fraud and therefore must be excluded from a Election Contest trial."

Hold your nose.

Posted by: StephenR from Houston on May 23, 2005 05:35 PM
4. Looks to me like the Democratic machine politick, including their media engine (PI and Times), is in panic. Thus, the jumping to conclusions and wishful thinking.

It will be fun to watch the media spin of this trial, since they have also been complicit in the elections fraud that occured in King County, robbing the entire state of its democracy.

Posted by: DeadManVoting (aka Iguana) on May 23, 2005 05:37 PM
5. It was my understanding that the Republicans were to submit a written legal brief to Judge Bridges by 5pm today
on the fraud allegation, so that he could review it.
I thought I heard Judge Bridges state that he was not ruling at this time to exclude evidence,
but he did state that "fraud" required a higher burden of proof, and that he agreed that "election fraud"
had not been a part of this case until today.

Well, if it ain't fraud, what is it?
Does deception sound any better?

Posted by: otto on May 23, 2005 05:53 PM
6. Here's what HA said about it:

Did Rossi suffer a “major blow"? (4:18 PM)
Hmm. Gregory Roberts of The Seattle P-I is reporting that the Republicans suffered a major setback today when the Judge ruled that they could not claim fraud. I think Gregory may have jumped the gun;

Hmm. Looks like you agree with Goldy on this and now I hear you two are appearing on radio together.

Sounds like love fest to me.

What are you going to announce next, that you are going to have a column in the Stranger?

Posted by: Erik on May 23, 2005 05:53 PM
7. Hey folks,

This is a high stakes game! No weak-knees allowed. Let the game come to you. The PU is always premature in their assessments...probably premature in other efforts as well.

Posted by: Danny on May 23, 2005 05:54 PM
8. Let me see if I can get into the Progressive, Liberal, Democrat lawyer mind..... (repeatedly smacking my skull with a hammer)...Duh..Durrr..Ok, I'm there.

Evidence is not evidence without indisputable evidence of fraud. But evidence is inadmissible without proof of fraud. Therefor a lack proof in our secret ballot system means no fraud was committed. Evidence is not valid if fraud is not proven and fraud can't be proven if evidence is not admissible. I think see now (wiping blood from my ears).

Didn't I see this on an episode of Star Trek? I never lie...

Posted by: Splatter on May 23, 2005 06:01 PM
9. Yep, it's the Democrat's MC Escher defense:

They hope everyone in court will get so confused that they'll just sit down on the couch and take another bong hit and enjoy the convolutions.

Posted by: Jeff B. on May 23, 2005 06:33 PM
10. Goldy would be the perfect person to have a column in The Stranger.

After all....who is "stranger" than Goldy??

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on May 23, 2005 06:35 PM
11. The P-I, like the Times, is pursuing strategy instead of tactics. Both of them in the last two days have erupted in prematurely triumphant crowing for the Democrat side. Both of their paeans have great gaping holes in them, apparent to those who examine the details of their claims. The papers, followed by the rest of the MSM, are doing the best they can to distort public opinion away from a sober analysis of the facts, and have no shame in using the news pages (in addition to their editorials) to do so.

Posted by: Insufficiently Sensitive on May 23, 2005 06:40 PM
12. I was listening to this part of the trial as well. What I took from it was the same as Stefan and Otto's earlier post. The R's need to file a brief by today, and any evidence they have on the subject of fraud will, to this point, still be considered as part of the overall effort to overturn the election. Doesn't seem like they lost anything to me.

Posted by: ChuckyJ on May 23, 2005 06:51 PM
13. If anyone still considers the PI to be an 'objective' news source, please come see me and I'll sell you the Evergreen Bridge (a real deal, sweetheart, just for you...)

Posted by: Michele on May 23, 2005 06:57 PM
14. Let me understand this legal farce. If I deny everything until the day of the trial and then confess, it can't be used in court because it is a surprise to my lawyer and that just isn't fair. Besides the truth just screws the whole system up. The Democrats are already complaining about how much Rossi has cost the taxpayer by not just going with the flow and think how much better things would be if we just did't look behind the curtain. I'll bet the judge is really upset with the lawyers for not doing their job and keeping the evidence of fraud out of his courtroom. After all their getting paid big the bucks to keep him from having to confront the ugly truth.

Posted by: Glenn on May 23, 2005 07:40 PM
15. Let me understand this legal farce. If I deny everything until the day of the trial and then confess, it can't be used in court because it is a surprise to my lawyer and that just isn't fair. Besides the truth just screws the whole system up. The Democrats are already complaining about how much Rossi has cost the taxpayer by not just going with the flow and think how much better things would be if we just did't look behind the curtain. I'll bet the judge is really upset with the lawyers for not doing their job and keeping the evidence of fraud out of his courtroom. After all their getting paid big the bucks to keep him from having to confront the ugly truth.

Posted by: Glenn on May 23, 2005 07:40 PM
16. I posted this to the wrong thread (below).. sorry..


Freeper, bigfootbob, posted a real REPORT from Rebecca Cook [that AP woman]. The PI chopped and cropped until they matched Dem talking points. She is a reporter, unlike Greg (Facts/Smacks) Roberts.


Trial Opens with GOP Accusing Democrats of Stealing Election
By REBECCA COOK, Associated Press Writer
May 23, 2005

Posted by: Splatter on May 23, 2005 07:56 PM
17. Republican Mayor West suffered a major blow...though he didn't see it as suffering, per se.

Posted by: The_Gent on May 23, 2005 08:04 PM
18. I sent an e-mail to Gregory Roberts.
His AutoReply responded that Roberts is out of the office until June 6th and my e-mail will be waiting for him when he returns.
How convenient!
So Roberts can't multi-task enough to read his e-mails and respond while in Wenatchee??
That says it all.

Make an outrageous statement & headline...
then run for cover.
Perhaps one of our friends over in Wenatchee can corner Roberts and find out if he is psychic or simply day-dreaming>

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on May 23, 2005 08:14 PM
19. The GOP web site posted an article on the court case. www.gopteamleader.com
click on news and/or blogs
informative comments needed welcome.

Posted by: chardonnay on May 23, 2005 08:15 PM
20. I agree with most of what has already been stated....I am however concerned about the slippery slope of the whole fraud thing...just present the facts, let the judge determine that the number of ineligible votes cast is much greater than the margin of victory and that fact puts the outcome in question...Election tossed, end of story. Calling people liars and cheats make it harder for the judge to buy in to our side....even if it is true.

Posted by: Roger on May 23, 2005 08:54 PM
21. The Republicans made a convincing argument that they could not make the claim of Fraud at pre-trial due to the fact the depositions from Logan, Reed, Huennekens, Way and Fell were taken after the pre-trial discovery! It was in these depositions - that the evidence of fraud was confirmed!

The Republicans now must put together a firm case for fraud to present to the Judge. He doesn't sound like he's going to be a pushover for either party. But the Judge cannot become so rigid in *housekeeping* issues that he disallows something as important as evidence of fraud in our election process!
This is the time Judge Bridges needs to look inside himself and remember the *spirit* of these laws as he interprets, applies and administers them...

Posted by: Deborah on May 23, 2005 09:06 PM
22. My assessment of the matter concerning the new allegation of fraud is as follows;

RCW 4.36.240
Harmless error disregarded.

The court shall, in every stage of an action, disregard any error or defect in pleadings or proceedings which shall not affect the substantial rights of the adverse party, and no judgment shall be reversed or affected by reason of such error or defect

. [Code 1881 § 113; 1877 p 24 § 113; 1854 p 144 § 71; RRS § 307.]

NOTES:

Rules of court: Cf. RAP 2.4(a), 18.22.

The petitioners became aware of error, wrongful act, or neglect that raised to the level of fraud thru the depositions, at the same time as the respondents. The original pleading is not incorrect as is the level of intent.

Posted by: RG on May 23, 2005 09:53 PM
23. With Rossi's lawyer I think the Dem's can relax,

Been there done that.

Posted by: Gary Schoessler on May 23, 2005 09:55 PM
24. "I was never able to discern his personal politics," said Sanford Brown, who filed an election challenge against Wenatchee Mayor Gary Schoessler in 1999. Bridges agreed that Schoessler hadn't met the legal residency requirements, and overturned the election. The Supreme Court unanimously upheld his ruling.

Are you one and the same Gary Schoessler? I'm not surprised you feel that way.

Posted by: cc on May 23, 2005 10:03 PM
25. Yes I'm the same. So much I could tell but I would surely be sued. I just set and watch with amazement. I do feel for these people as no matter what it's bad for everyone.

Posted by: Gary Schoessler on May 23, 2005 10:13 PM
26. are you watching/listening to the trial Gary?

Posted by: cc on May 23, 2005 10:18 PM
27. So far

Posted by: Gary Schoessler on May 23, 2005 10:20 PM
28. And I respectfully disagree with you. No matter what the outcome, this was the right thing to do under these circumstances.

Posted by: cc on May 23, 2005 10:21 PM
29. I like and voted for Dino, And I think it's wrong what happend in king county, I just think he needs to find another lead for his case.

Posted by: Gary on May 23, 2005 10:28 PM
30. That may be true. But... we don't know everything that is going on behind closed doors. Let's hope we don't anyway!
I can't get the trial here so I rely on you fine folks to keep me up to date.
As you said above you've been there, done that.
Maybe after the trial you can "tell" all!

Posted by: cc on May 23, 2005 10:40 PM
31. I will post my trial outcome on the last day and see how close it comes when Bridges gives his 3 days later. Just for fun. This website is great I just found it today. I wonder if Russ Spidel is on the dem's side of the case, that would be scary.

Posted by: Gary on May 23, 2005 10:50 PM
32. good deal Gary! I will look forward to that!
This is the best blog out there. I'm a really big fan!

Posted by: cc on May 23, 2005 10:55 PM
33. I was blown away to think that the fraud charges may not be allowed. It is like if I go out in the morning and see the side of my car is smashed in. I did not see what happened, all I know is my car is wrecked. I do not know if someone accidentally hit it or if it was a deliberate act of vandalism. I go to court and say someone wrecked my car, but not until depositions are taken and an investigation is complete can I determine weather it was an accident or it was vandalism.

Why is this different? Law...BAH!

Posted by: Hanna on May 23, 2005 11:27 PM
34. Nothing said today means much of anything certain, but the Democrats are scared as hell
and they are spinning this every way they can.

Watch for liberal insanity itself to ring out in earnest * * *

That's all it is . . . so far.

Posted by: Amused by liberals on May 24, 2005 12:42 AM
35. Erik
You mean Goldy is now going conservative and agreeing with us. No way!

Gary
Nice to meet you. Your insight may be very pertinent to this case having practical knowledge of the judge and election law. I might not agree on everything you say but thats life.

Posted by: Mark Beyer on May 24, 2005 01:22 AM
36. I think that all of the ST and PI headlines have already been written, then they just have to add the text in later as a story develops. I can't wait for the one that reads:

"GOP Wins Court Case on Sympathy Vote From Bridges"
Judge bridges felt sorry for the GOP and Rossi since all court decisions seemed to be going against them. In a strong showing of unjustified compassion, Judge Bridges awarded the GOP...

Posted by: Sopater on May 24, 2005 07:34 AM
37. FYI KREM.com has the trial live online starting at 9:00 am

Posted by: Gary on May 24, 2005 08:35 AM
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