May 19, 2005
Is A False Election Report Fraud?

A deliberately false election report?

King County's absentee-ballot supervisor has testified that she collaborated with her boss when she filled out a report that falsely showed all ballots were accounted for in the November election.

Nicole Way said in a deposition Friday that she and assistant elections superintendent Garth Fell agreed to the misleading report because officials didn't know how many absentee ballots were returned by voters.
. . .
The regulations require counties to reconcile the number of absentee ballots returned by voters with the number of ballots accepted or rejected.  Way's report showed perfect reconciliation because it simply added the number accepted and rejected to calculate ballots returned.

I don't know whether this meets the legal definition of election fraud, but it meets the ordinary definition.  The report was fraudulent.

None of this will come as any surprise to those who have followed Stefan Sharkansky's fine investigations here.  But this admission, which confirms one of his findings, should trigger outrage even in the "mainstream" media.  (And it should trigger some activity on the part of the Seattle PI, which was completely beaten by the Times on this story.)

Cross posted at Jim Miller on Politics.

(Those not in this area may need to know that the deposition was filed in the continuing lawsuit over last November's gubernatorial election.

If anyone has a copy of this deposition they can send me, I would love to study it for a possible follow up post.)

Posted by Jim Miller at May 19, 2005 05:42 AM | Email This
Comments
1. The socialist hacks who run Pravda-Izvestia (the PI) wouldn't recognize a real story if it jumped up and kicked them in the a**. Hail to SP, king of the new, people's media!

Posted by: Saltherring on May 19, 2005 05:54 AM
2. I think that "election fraud" in a legal sense would require intent to illegally alter vote totals in favor of a specific candidate.

Posted by: ScottM on May 19, 2005 06:06 AM
3. I think its definately fraud...the question is whether or not it is election fraud.

I would argue it is because, by not showing the real numbers (and the potential problems it contained), she essentially covered problems that could have potentially resulted in a Rossi win. The last thing you want in a close election (if you're on the winning side) is to find something that could potentially change the results even a fraction.

By preparing a false report, she deceived in order to preserve the current state of the election, where the correct report may have lead to an investigation that would have resulted, potentially, in a different result.

However, I assume the Dem's will argue that if the correct report wouldn't have led to a different result in the election, then she couldn't have committed fraud, because her actions didn't change anything.

Posted by: VaCSProf on May 19, 2005 06:24 AM
4. ScottM,

Per my last post, what if she intentially wanted to preserve the status quo, which favored a specific candidate?

Posted by: VaCSProf on May 19, 2005 06:26 AM
5. Would a county certification of a statewide race count as a "certificate of election" under RCW 29A.84.711?

RCW 29A.84.711
Documents regarding nomination, election, candidacy--Frauds and falsehoods.
Every person who:

(1) Knowingly and falsely issues a certificate of nomination or election; or

(2) Knowingly provides false information on a certificate which must be filed with an elections officer under chapter 29A.20 RCW, is guilty of a class C felony punishable under RCW 9A.20.021.

[RCW 9A.20.021 sets the punishment for a Class C felony at "confinement in a state correctional institution for five years, or by a fine in an amount fixed by the court of ten thousand dollars, or by both such confinement and fine."]

Posted by: ScottM on May 19, 2005 06:33 AM
6. Maybe it wouldn't matter:

RCW 29A.84.720
Officers -- Violations generally.
Every person charged with the performance of any duty under the provisions of any law of this state relating to elections, including primaries, or the provisions of any charter or ordinance of any city or town of this state relating to elections who willfully neglects or refuses to perform such duty, or who, in the performance of such duty, or in his or her official capacity, knowingly or fraudulently violates any of the provisions of law relating to such duty, is guilty of a class C felony punishable under RCW 9A.20.021 and shall forfeit his or her office.

Posted by: ScottM on May 19, 2005 06:35 AM
7. I'm guessing they just fudged the results to save themselves work or to cover their a$$. Even so, I would consider it fraud.

Posted by: Jonah on May 19, 2005 06:42 AM
8. I thought it was Republicans that commit election fraud, but I could be wrong about it.

I assume all this is going into the elction lawsuit ... boy are the moonbats going to go nuts when the Washigton election is redone. Not going to be pretty.

Posted by: bill on May 19, 2005 07:04 AM
9. The law doesn't talk about why, it talks about what. The what that happened pretty squarely violates RCW 29A.84.720

Posted by: Dogbert on May 19, 2005 07:07 AM
10. It's pretty cut and dry. They knowingly did this deed, and they need to be punished for it.

Posted by: Big M on May 19, 2005 07:19 AM
11. As Berendt said today- it's an outrage!! It took votes away from Gregoire.

Posted by: swatter on May 19, 2005 07:19 AM
12. Could be, but it depends on what your definition of 'is' is

Posted by: JDH on May 19, 2005 07:21 AM
13. In government, this passes for 'okay'.
No wonder everything's so messed up.

Posted by: M on May 19, 2005 07:24 AM
14. She collaborated with her boss? wow. I am not surprised at all.
I don't count on even this triggering outrage in the MSM. They are just as deceitful as the KC election worker.

Posted by: cc on May 19, 2005 07:25 AM
15. Republicans commit election fraud??

All the big vote fraud scandals happen in heavily Dem areas. Dem groups in Ohio (NAACP, ACORN, etc.) brought in hundreds if not thousands of phoney registrations in their attempt to defraud the state and win unfairly.

Wisconsin experienced thousands of fake registrations in heavily Dem areas.

King County is heavily dem and looked what happened here. Ballot-box stuffing.

No, it is Democrats who commit the big fraud. That's why they're so opposed to making fraud harder to commit.

Posted by: M on May 19, 2005 07:28 AM
16.
But this admission, which confirms one of his findings, should trigger outrage even in the "mainstream" media.
Nah. They'll just say, "close enough for government work." Or, "she did as good a job as was possible under the circumstances." Or, "no election is perfect, but this one is as perfect as they come." Or some other such self-serving platitude that preserves the status quo. See how easy it is?


Posted by: jay bird on May 19, 2005 07:30 AM
17. The question that looms large in my mind is; Was Sam Reed complicit in this as well or just a buffoon? Regardless, he shares at least part of the responsibility for us being where we are today.

Posted by: JDH on May 19, 2005 07:35 AM
18. Reed can plead ignorance. Its a great day, to survive on your job by pleading stupidity and ignorance. Its standard play in their playbook. If that doesn't work, blame it all on chris vance or tom delay

Posted by: righton on May 19, 2005 07:41 AM
19. Assistant elections superintendent Carlos Webb said yesterday that he had instructed the staff to count
those unverified ballots, but he declined to explain why.

Why? Time to plead the Fifth Admendment. We already know why: Fraud!

Question: How many Assistant Elections Superintendents does it take to screw up an election in King County?

Answer: All of them!

Posted by: otto on May 19, 2005 07:56 AM
20. Don't know how many votes were cast. No problem just make up a number.

That's falsifying elections certifications as per RCW 29A.84.711(1). And meets the the legal definition of fraud.

Doing it with the complicity and knowledge of your superior. That's conspiracy.

What we have is legal testimony under oath to conspiracy to commit election fraud.

Nelson and the PI might yawn it away. But it looks like some cooking goose to me.

Posted by: JCM on May 19, 2005 07:57 AM
21. I've changed my mind. I'm not sure that state law ever actually defines "election fraud," but it does outlaw certain fraudulent actions, and the false report falls clearly into that category.

1. WAC 434-240-270 requires elections officials to maintain an absentee ballot audit trail including, among other things, "A reconciliation that all absentee ballots counted plus all absentee ballots rejected is equal to the total number of absentee ballots received."

2. King County has admitted deliberately falsifying a report in order to make it look as if they had obeyed that regulation, when in fact they had not.

3. And, as I pointed out above:


RCW 29A.84.720
Officers -- Violations generally.
Every person charged with the performance of any duty under the provisions of any law of this state relating to elections, including primaries, or the provisions of any charter or ordinance of any city or town of this state relating to elections who willfully neglects or refuses to perform such duty, or who, in the performance of such duty, or in his or her official capacity, knowingly or fraudulently violates any of the provisions of law relating to such duty, is guilty of a class C felony punishable under RCW 9A.20.021 and shall forfeit his or her office.
[Emphasis added.]

I suppose now it all turns on the question of how Judge Bridges defines "fraud." Will he limit it to include only acts demonstrably intended to give the election to Gregoire, or will he include deliberate falsification of reports which very well might have thrown the election to Gregoire?

Posted by: ScottM on May 19, 2005 08:04 AM
22. What the hell is it going to take to get the
FBI involved? Does Berendt have to start crying
after he snaps from the pressure and confess all?
I cannot believe this crap is happening in America. The goddamn people better wake up!

Posted by: mark on May 19, 2005 08:10 AM
23. Thanks to all those who came up with the legal information.

And, on another point: I am going to send some polite emails to journalists today, suggesting that this might be a story that deserves a little more coverage. (And, if you do the same, I suggest you recall the proverb about flies, vinegar, and honey, before you click "Send".)

Posted by: Jim Miller on May 19, 2005 08:12 AM
24. Was anyone else struck by this comment at the end of the article? “More than 700 other provisional ballots were counted at polling places before voters' eligibility was verified — a violation of county and state policies.”

“A violation of county and state POLICIES?” This defies all logic. How can this not be a blatant violation of law, not just policy? The standard for provisionals has always been the presumption of being invalid, in contrast to poll votes that are presumed to valid, has it not? This has always seemed to me to be a form of ballot stuffing. Any pool of questionable votes in a heavily partisan county is bound to skew toward the partisan in question, probably by a higher percentage than would be true for the county as a whole, since provisionals tend to be motivated by last minute pressures in a campaign.

Not too many non-lefties are going to mourn the passing of the Times/PI. The real question will be “will anyone notice?” There’s a Pulitzer going to waste here, and, if by some miracle there is one awarded, it’ll be for the category of ‘bloggers’. Where are the “Truth In Media”, “People for the American Way” types? AWOL. Just like with Clinton’s various escapades/scandals. Integrity is non-partisan, and as a group these organizations are simply partisan hacks.

Jeeze, this election would make a good book/movie. Anyone know if Ann Rule is busy these days? This would be right up her “true crime” alley.

Posted by: scott158 on May 19, 2005 08:15 AM
25. What? Almost 25 posts and no yawning or headless trolls yet?

Posted by: SheriJo on May 19, 2005 08:16 AM
26. classic!

We don't like the outcome of a close election so we scream FRAUD! CHEAT!

Our system, with millions of voters and thousands of workers and volunteers, is just not equipped to handle the closest of elections down to the very last vote.

Now you all want to send those election workers to jail with felonies?

I wonder if any of you would take the job? with that low of pay (if any) and the threat of going to jail if you nmake a mistake?

You complain about the quality of election worker and then set up such a high barrier for anyone willing to consider joining in to help make things better.

And I'm the unreasonable one?

Posted by: who'dathunk! on May 19, 2005 08:19 AM
27. speaking of partisan hacks...

Well 'who,' how is your hibernation going?

Posted by: scott158 on May 19, 2005 08:25 AM
28. "And I'm the unreasonable one?"

That would be a 'yes.'

alaric

Posted by: alaric on May 19, 2005 08:29 AM
29. Agonizingly slow as it is, it's fun watching this crap roll uphill.

Like a Mafia investigation, the "little fish" are smelling job loss or jail time, and rolling over on the bigger fish. The process is working.

It's clear there are no Woodward or Bernsteins in the MSM, they are in the BLOG world. Great job folks!

Posted by: Mark on May 19, 2005 08:29 AM
30. Fraud?

No Way?

Whafumo?

Posted by: Amused by liberals on May 19, 2005 08:31 AM
31. who'dathunk spewed:
Our system, with millions of voters and thousands of workers and volunteers, is just not equipped to handle the closest of elections down to the very last vote.

Sure it is... you just keep on recounting until you can sneek in enough votes for you horse to edge out the win and then certify the election.

Desperation is ugly. Who'daonesinkingnow?

Posted by: Editor on May 19, 2005 08:31 AM
32. Who'dathunk you moron. This isnt a case of mistake this is a case of willfully falsifying a report. Your head cant be that far up your butt that you dont understand plain english.

Posted by: lesterman on May 19, 2005 08:32 AM
33. Who'd: So now you believe that elections officials should be able to deliberately file false reports and suffer no consequences?

You are a troll.

Posted by: ScottM on May 19, 2005 08:33 AM
34. SheriJo:
The yawners and headless trolls are usually awake at the crack of noon. Tough to get the bong lit, scan the headlines, and stop shaking before then. Stay tuned.

Posted by: Mark on May 19, 2005 08:33 AM
35. point of clarification, lesterman...
It's a mistake if a liberal puke or minion makes it. It's a crime if a conservative is ACCUSED of it.

I think that's what who'd means.

Posted by: Danny on May 19, 2005 08:38 AM
36. I don't know about you, but the companies I have work for in my career would severely discipline up to and including termination anyone who made such serious and deliberate "mistakes" (violations) of law including the "boss" who knowingly allowed, condoned, approved or suggested it. But I guess I have only worked for ethical companies.

Posted by: Shannon on May 19, 2005 08:38 AM
37. Who'da says,
"and then set up such a high barrier"

Making sure the number of ballots equals the number of voters = high barrier.

You're pathetic.

Posted by: jimg on May 19, 2005 08:39 AM
38. Another crack in the dam. It only takes a few to start singing and naming names.

It's been a while since we've seen Berendt have a good cry. Something tells me we're in store for a good one.

Posted by: Mr. Grabbit on May 19, 2005 08:42 AM
39. Bravo Jim Miller, mark, ScottM, JCM, righton, otto, jay bird, JDH, M, Big M, and all the rest of the countless responders with sharp minds, clear facts and love of the truth and fair elections.
The Democrats would have walked away with this election if not for Stefan Sharkansky and the SP contributors and all of you here.

And if you are reading this:
Chris Vance - can you step up to this challenge? I know your working hard on this case.
Dino Rossi - If you make a strong stand, you will never stand along. Thanks.

Posted by: Son of Liberty on May 19, 2005 08:43 AM
40. Danny,

You are so far off. There is absolutely no requirement to wait until a conservative is accused. All you need is the possibility of them actually do it.

Newsweek the perfect example. The story isn't wrong because it is possible that it happened. OK no evidence no one saying it did happen, Newsweek says that the story is wrong, but it is still Bush's fault because it could have happened.

Posted by: Fred on May 19, 2005 08:49 AM
41. who'da,

I certainly would not consider Dean Logan and his staff low paid. Nor do I think the concept of the number of ballots cast matching that of the number of people who voted to be an unreasonable one...from what planet did you come?

Posted by: maggie on May 19, 2005 09:06 AM
42. "but it is still Bush's fault because it could have happened." - Almost. More like: "There are so many allegations that some of them just have to be true." And they (MSM) don't care which. It isn't the soundness of the proof, it's the loudness of the noise.

Posted by: Dogbert on May 19, 2005 09:10 AM
43. While it seems purdy clear to any semi-intellegent person that the law was broken, serveral times by several persons, y'all gotta remember that "mental state" plays a very big part in the criminal justice system in this great socialist state of Washington. One must prove anothers "intent" to sucessfully prosecute another. Brings to mind recent murder convictions that our Supremes have tossed out cuz the actor did not "intend to kill the victim" So imagine a senario something like this:

Scumbag lawyer: Was it your intent to intentionally throw this election by submitting incorrect reports?

KC elections worker: Oh gosh, no sir, honest, I was tryin real hard to do the best job for the people that I could.

Scumbag lawyer: Clearly your honor, it's obvious that my client did not intend to cause any harm..

Judge: Agreed, case dismissed

One needs to show that an actor acted with Knowledge, negligence or recklessness. While the first two appear to apply here & may be sufficient in a criminal prosecution, will it be enuff in the civil case starting on the 23rd? I would think so since the burden of proof is less in a civil case....but were are talking about our Suprems now aren't we?? And that is where is case will ultimately be decided.

Posted by: Blueknight on May 19, 2005 09:13 AM
44. A couple things to note;

Rossi was on the KVI this morning saying many of the uncounted ballots were in precincts he carried. The fact ballots were from known Republican precincts would indicate some funny business was going on.

Rossi also said there were a number of ballots opened and re-sealed. A clear violation of law. Who did it and why?

Rossi also said a number of democrat party operatives who were appointed as election observers took ballots home with them the eve of the election. Why?

The Seattle Times story also quotes Carlos Web as follows: Assistant elections superintendent Carlos Webb said yesterday that he had instructed the staff to count those unverified ballots, but he declined to explain why.
I believe the "declined to explain" part is where he takes the 5th.

Last but not least, I love this statement by Way blaming that darned computer... From the Seattle Times story;
Way testified elections officials couldn't keep track of ballots returned because the new computer system "didn't seem to track things on the scale that we would need it [to]."

That's the venerable old "the dog ate my homework" defense. Nice try sweetheart, but we're not buying it.

Posted by: Scott C on May 19, 2005 09:14 AM
45. If that is not fraud by legal definition, then the legal definition was written in Washington State such that no Democrat could be charged with election fraud. It was rigged that way from the get-go.

Really, I don't think any of the new legislation passed this session and signed by the fraudulant government should be implemented and enforced. It wasn't signed into law by a legitimate governor.

Posted by: DeadManVoting (aka Iguana) on May 19, 2005 09:19 AM
46. Fred - Oh so true. When ideology is all that matters, truth and facts have little weight against the windmill of "possibility".

Posted by: Mike J on May 19, 2005 09:21 AM
47. Fred...just trying to give a little quarter here and there.

Posted by: Danny on May 19, 2005 09:23 AM
48. As observors at the machine recount, we saw cartons of ballots, fresh from the printer, just waiting for mischief. My son-in-law and a friend saw a supervisor opening ballots, looking inside, and taping them back up. They questioned why she was doing this. It was a perfect case of "then she made up a lie, and made it up quick". Another election staffer grinch. We tried to report these incidents, but nobody "on our side" wanted to hear our story. Same thing was true at the hand count.

Posted by: lksimstrailgrammy on May 19, 2005 09:25 AM
49. ...and the hits just keep on coming!

Posted by: Andy on May 19, 2005 09:26 AM
50. JDH--
Remember how Sam Reed repeatedly stated his job was only to add up and report what the County's submitted to him. I guess we'll eventually find out if that was Sam's only job...especially when problems with these KingCo reconciliations were brought to his attention. Interesting how the Election Contest trial AFTERMATH will play out, isn't it?

I'm still very, very glad the Feds have NOT come in and investigated yet. It truly would have shifted the focus from Fraud and negligence and illegal votes to Bush trying to steal another election. I know a lot of you wished they were in here but trust me on this one....it would have created a red herring and a huge mess. There is plenty of time after the Election Contest...plus the trial, discovery and depositions will provide a strong basis for the Feds to proceed from.

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on May 19, 2005 09:29 AM
51. Danny - it is pretty sad when "It's a crime if a conservative is ACCUSED of it." is being generous, isn't it?

Posted by: Fred on May 19, 2005 09:31 AM
52. If Garth Fell's deposition lines up with the confession by Nicole Way (assume we will see that soon), then we have confirming testimony under oath admitting to a conspiracy. If any reasonable standard of common sense and logic applies, then just the words from RCW 29A.84.711, 29A.84.720, and WAC 434-240-270 that ScottM listed should be more than enough for the AG and / or the King County Prosecutor to get involved and launch an official probe.

If Nicole and Garth are put on the legal rack and reminded of the rather severe penalties for violation of the above RCWs and WAC, I doubt they will volunteer to take the rap for all of KCE by themselves; i.e.: My guess is they will try and cop a plea and tell all; and that what we are seeing with this Times piece by Keith Ervin is the beginning of the final breakdown of the 'model election' fascade claim by the Gov-4-Now.

This is getting interesting. Stay tuned.

SIDEBAR: Remember that Judge Bridges relented and said he would allow TVW to cover the trial.

Methow Ken

Posted by: Methow Ken on May 19, 2005 09:33 AM
53. Scott C: The opened and resealed ballots were explained in the Logan deposition (starting on p. 41). If the poll worker failed to note the precinct on the outer envelope, the envelopes were opened, the precinct noted, and the ballot taped shut.

Which, of course, defeats the whole purpose of verifying the ballots before opening the envelope.

And although I can't find the reference, I remember reading in one of the depositions that it's standard procedure for the poll site inspector (in King County, they're all Democrats) to pick up the supplies for his poll site (including ballots) one or two days in advance.

Posted by: ScottM on May 19, 2005 09:34 AM
54. Clarification:

I did not mean to imply that ALL lawyers are "scumbags"...my apologies if I offended anyone!

Posted by: Blueknight on May 19, 2005 09:34 AM
55. Mr. Cynical is absolutely right! The feds will be a PR bonanza for the dems, the MSM will obediently follow their lead, and the facts of the case will go from page 7 to the inside back page of section D. The reps trying to steal the election will be front page above the fold every day.

Posted by: Fred on May 19, 2005 09:36 AM
56. "Assistant elections superintendent Carlos Webb said yesterday that he had instructed the staff to count those unverified ballots, but he declined to explain why."

No doubt he was utterly convinced by the Democrat mantra, repeated to infinity, of "count ALL the ballots". That's what I heard Gregoire say during the recounts - she said ballots. No mention of validity. Would anyone believe that the Dems were hoping for any sort of advantage they could get?

Every time Rossi came out ahead, King County (which always counted late in the process) scrambled to furnish another pile of ballots from some murky location or other. Who was the guy who knew those locations?

Posted by: Insufficiently Sensitive on May 19, 2005 09:38 AM
57. Not fraud?

election_fraud
A noun
1 election_fraud: misrepresentation or alteration of the true results of an election


Linking to an intent?
Not a requirement, the false reporting (knowingly) and in conjunction with your supervisor, misrepresenting facts or officially certifying, knowing it couldnt be certified.
In concert with her supervisor?

duplicity
A noun
1 duplicity, double-dealing

acting in bad faith; deception by pretending to entertain one set of intentions while acting under the influence of another


You can twist, turn, spin this any way you want, but the results are the same.

I am just curious how many more 'officials' are going to audition for "King County Election Idol" competition and start singing?

I think some skeletons are about to take legs and start walking.

Scott

Posted by: Scott in Oly on May 19, 2005 09:52 AM
58. Photo of democrat counting system
http://recenter.tamu.edu/tgrande/vol11-3/1684.html

Posted by: righton on May 19, 2005 09:55 AM
59. Hey "Who'da" I forget, was it your party that said, "We want every vote to count". Remember that?

Posted by: Harley Guy on May 19, 2005 09:55 AM
60. Lksimsgrammy--your story bothers me. This whole criminal activity should have been stoppped as it was happening if authorities on both sides had taken heed. Now we have to go through the Enron style investigation and split hairs to forensically determine FRAUD. Perhaps after a few people go to jail it will help sharpen the line between right and wrong for those that are ethically challenged (ie. poor moral upbringing, lack of Biblical training, etc.)

In my profession, once a gaping hole in a process is identified, the problem is remedied, and preventive corrective actions are applied to preclude further occurrences. We all know the remedies for this indiscretion include reversing the election results and jailing the perpetrators of harm to all of the citizens of Washington. In the corrective action portion of the judge's decision, I hope that an ongoing training in ethics is instituted as well as a we-tip style of ombudsman program for reporting co-worker unlawful acts.

Posted by: Elvis is the King County on May 19, 2005 09:59 AM
61. You can try desperately to ignore it, but this is no longer a story about republicans merely claiming fraud; the story is that election officials are ever-so-sweetly singing it. In court. On the record.

Thanks Stephan, all your efforts are so appreciated for keeping us informed.

Posted by: California Dreamer on May 19, 2005 10:17 AM
62. Up until now they've been boasting "nobody can prove fraud" ---well we found it- and they've desperately been trying to hide it to the point that employees may be subject to felony prosecution.

This is the fraud that has been proven....how about all of the lies and fraud that are more difficult to prove? For every rat and cockroach you see, there are 6 others hiding in the walls.

To all of those like Locke who say this is not good for the state--- you are full of it-- this process is exactly what is needed.

Posted by: Andy on May 19, 2005 10:23 AM
63. Elvis is absolutely right. Some of us knew just how important this was back in November. And we were kicking and screaming while leadership within our own party was either in denial or being apathetic. And I am still shaking my head at Sam Reed's speed-certification.

The cost of this whole fiasco has been astronomical. The cost of the original campaign and the following legal battle has been around $4 million. And I am especially offended that the state (all of us) is required to repay the money the democrats fronted for the whole hand recount sham. Remember, if she lost the third count, they had to pick up the tab.

Of course, I think we all knew in our hearts that the outcome was pretty much predetermined as soon as they risked the money for the third count. All of the theatrics with the counting and observers was nothing more than a distraction and PR to make the process look transparent. The real theft took place behind closed doors.

Posted by: Mr. Grabbit on May 19, 2005 10:36 AM
64. I know how we can get rid of all the illegal immigrants.
Hire them to the KC elections department.
Fraud, Conviction, Deportation

Posted by: Michael on May 19, 2005 10:48 AM
65. If Kristine Gregoire had any sense of justice and integrity she would call a press conference today and announce that the recent revelations of fraud in King Co show this election was a total fraudulent mess and that she now agrees it is impossible to know who won, therefore, she is calling for it to be set aside and a new election to be held in November.

/still waiting for hell to freeze over... but I do hear the sound of screeching nails on blackboard as the queen is dragged kicking and screaming from the mansion...

Posted by: Tucker on May 19, 2005 11:04 AM
66. Mr. Grabbit . . . thank goodness those "closed doors" are slowly being opened. The house of cards is starting to fall. I don't believe I've seen much discussion on the phoney "put up the money for the hand count" scam, by the way. Of course they knew they would get all of the money back. They knew they had folks in high places who would gin up the needed votes in the henhouse while the fox was busy pretending to observe the count. Their biggest challenge was staying ahead of the spreadsheet. They couldn't find a spreadsheet guru who was fast enough so they knew how many ballots to find in the outhouses.

Posted by: lksimstrailgrammy on May 19, 2005 11:17 AM
67. If Kristine Gregoire had any sense of justice and integrity...

And if frogs had wings they could fly.

Posted by: otto on May 19, 2005 11:24 AM
68. Blueknight,

You wrote Lawyer Scumbag.

As a scumbag, I am offended.

:)

Posted by: Ken on May 19, 2005 11:33 AM
69. Tucker--you are right if Kristine had any integrity she would bow out; however, she is part of a party that doesn't know right from wrong and doesn't take responsibility for wrongful activities. Remember it was Clinton who was impeached, had sex with an admin (sexual harassment by normal corporate standards) and through it all did not take personal responsibility to do what was right. In contrast, remember Richard Nixon who respected the office and country, in the face of possible impeachment hearings, stepped down--a real man with integrity. Nixon and Gregoire both faced moral issues connected with actions taken by distanced people on their behalf--Nixon bowed out gracefully and Gregoire is kicking and clinging to her position with all of her personal ego in charge.

Just like Clinton, I expect Gregoire will turn to the media to portray herself as the victim instead of the perpetrator. I would not be suprised to see more clips of Christine the victim over the coming days. You know the spin, why should SHE leave an office that she deserves for all of the hard work she has done--rags to riches, Cinderella of Olympia. Be on the lookout for the feigned acts of disappointment and distancing from those accused of Fraud.

Bring on the truth! Hail the dismantling of the trainwreck in Olympia.

Posted by: Elvis is the King County on May 19, 2005 11:42 AM
70. Okay, you brainiacs here. Let's put aside the definition of fraud for a second and address a different question. If the computer records were messed up, what was KC supposed to do? Were they to not certify the election results and disenfranchise thousands of voters? Were they to knowingly use incorrect computer records? I see it as a Catch-22 situation. They were stuck and came up with the best solution at the time. There intent was to solve the problem with the poor computer records, which I have stated in previous posts. Why doesn't anyone address the fact that the computer system was poor in KC? Why doesn't anyone address the fact that several counties had computerized systems that weren't certified? Why won't any address the fact that we can not verify Snohomish County information because the electronic voting machines did not provide an audit trail?

This election mess can be blaimed largely on our over reliance on computer technology. It was computer technology that was the mess-up in Gray's County. It appears that alot of the problems in KC can also be attributed to their computer technology. Why wasn't the system checked properly before the election so that the election could be run right? This is both parties fault, not just the Democrats.

Word to the Republican party. Insist on independent testing and validation of all election computer systems and a requirement for open source or independent, certified review of voting software. It is time we get rid of these proprietary systems that are closed door and open the system up so that all can see. Open election electronic systems with independent verification and fail-proof, tamper resistant audit trails are the only way to ensure properly run elections.

Posted by: tc on May 19, 2005 12:14 PM
71. TC from one of the brainiacs - pray tell who was responsible for the computer system and the data it contains?

Posted by: Fred on May 19, 2005 12:31 PM
72. Here is a good question, What other parts of the election errors found so far did Nicole Way and Garth Fell have a part in? It is entirely possible there are errors they may be responsible for in other areas. Add those errors up and the level of fraud increases. Also, was Fell's boss the common denominator in any other errors, maybe Fell will now roll over on his boss?

Posted by: Mark Beyer on May 19, 2005 12:33 PM
73. TC
First, once Fell and Way found it was getting out of hand they should have stopped everything and established a clear series of steps to increase the accuracy. Instead they stood aside and let the collision happen.

Second, if they didn't have the authority or cajones to make that call they should have sent the request up the chain to someone who would make the call. Who knows, maybe someone did which we may soon find out.

Third, if the software was the problem, the fail safe option is to hand count the results. They had better have really good and well documented reasons for taking that option though.

Since they took none of those preventive steps it appears they made their decisions under some sort of influence, laziness, or intent. One of those reasons gets them fired, two of the reasons gets them jail time. Unless, they roll over on who told them to do it.

Posted by: Mark Beyer on May 19, 2005 12:43 PM
74. Whodathunk...

"classic!

We don't like the outcome of a close election so we scream FRAUD! CHEAT!

Our system, with millions of voters and thousands of workers and volunteers, is just not equipped to handle the closest of elections down to the very last vote.

Now you all want to send those election workers to jail with felonies?

I wonder if any of you would take the job? with that low of pay (if any) and the threat of going to jail if you nmake a mistake?

You complain about the quality of election worker and then set up such a high barrier for anyone willing to consider joining in to help make things better.

And I'm the unreasonable one? "


First of all, it is the Democrat that always scream about fraud and cheating with NO PROOF.


The old tired excuse of how difficult it is to accurately count is nonsense! That is just an excuse for the FRAUD we have seen perpetrated on the people of this state.

Finally, yes, you are the unresonable one.

Posted by: pbj on May 19, 2005 12:46 PM
75. So, how many people are in the Fraud lineup so far?
1 Nicole Way
2 Garth Fell
3 Carlos Webb (?)
4 Dean Logan

Anybody else?

Posted by: Mark Beyer on May 19, 2005 12:55 PM
76. tc - you state that the problem is caused by over reliance on computer systems. Yet, you still appear to advocate "open" computer systems. So, should we trust the computers or not? Banks seem to use computers quite accurately without making public their software and data. Have you ever considered the problem just might be clueless users of the computer systems?

Posted by: Mike J on May 19, 2005 01:03 PM
77. At the risk of betraying my ignorance, have I missed something here? Isn't there a distinction between punishing an individual for bad conduct and undoing an election? Didn't the judge say that regardless of what happened, you still have to prove that whatever it was that happened actaully changed the outcome of the election?

Appreciate any clarification

Posted by: Northern Coho on May 19, 2005 01:13 PM
78. TC,
The "right" thing to do wasn't add another "wrong" thing to the pile by falsifying a report. Remember your Mother's admonition, "Two wrongs do not make a right."
Instead, people of integrity would have stopped where they were and informed their superiors. If their superiors had said, "Just fake it," they then should have gotten legal representation, gone to policing authorities to blow the whistle, and then gone public, stopping the whole process in its tracks because meeting a deadline to certify is only important if the results can be trusted.
That's what I expect people of integrity to do. I do not want them to make excuses about a computer system or cover up in any way. Knowingly creating false reports can not be defended whether its bad computers, bad people, or bad anything.

Posted by: Larry T on May 19, 2005 01:19 PM
79. Mark Beyer--
My guess is that pencil-neck geek Bill Huennekens will also find his way on to your list.

Let's speculate---
Will any of these folks disclose any undue pressure they received from Sims or any other Democratic Party operative????
Like a plea-bargain arrangement.

I can't imagine any of these people taking a rap for Sims or anyone else, can you???
Time will tell....but eventually we will have a much clearer picture.

Sim's wagon's are un-circling!!

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on May 19, 2005 01:30 PM
80. Hey throw a few hundred Rossi absentees in the trash and fix the incoming ballot totals and bingo, The Gregfraud is the first governor with an asterisk! But hey I know nuthink and Paul Burkhalter wants me to believe that Helga would have MORE votes under his new math!! Win, lose or draw in court at least the Dummocracts have lost in the court of public opinion. Hey when is that fake federal prosecutor going to put down his law books? SP Digging the tunnels around the MSM and finding what they try and bury!

Posted by: Col. Hogan on May 19, 2005 01:47 PM
81. I think it is a given that "that woman" will pull a Hillary Clinton by acting appalled (like when Monica told about the cigars) by the actions in King County. She will say she had no idea what they were doing, she is so disappointed in them as individuals, but she still won. She WILL distance herself. Even Berendt might distance himself from the incumbent comrade. After all, Comrade Sims dug his heels in pretty hard for Logan. It would take a lot of back peddling to get around that one. A lot of people will fall on the sword for the elite. Bottom line, though. "That woman" and her party minions managed to do a lot of damage to our state. For them, that is a noble victory.

Posted by: lksimstrailgrammy on May 19, 2005 01:56 PM
82. Lksimstrailgrammy--Oh you bring up a great point and that is this could be a bigger windfall than R's were hoping for. Had the election been thwarted in November, we'd have (just) Rossi. But you mentioned that now we can gain Sims' office as part of the collateral damage. This is definitely worth the investment in time! Was this by R strategy, dumb Sims luck, or extreme providence?

I think that I'm going to set up a BBQ on the Capitol lawn for Independence Day...trainwreck should be cleared by then.

Posted by: Elvis is the King County on May 19, 2005 02:17 PM
83. "Was this by R strategy, dumb Sims luck, or extreme providence?"

Berents said last November : "This has Karl Roves' fingerprints all over it."

BWWWWAAAAHHHHAAAAAA!!!!!

Posted by: Dogbert on May 19, 2005 02:42 PM
84. Wow. This has really gotten out of hand. Not one of you has read the poor girl's deposition, Keith Ervin from the Times included, and look how you swarm. You take a few quotes leaked to the media, probably out of context, and this is how you respond. It is easy to scream words like fraud and ethics and integrity from the sidelines. Especially when you are so frustrated. How easy it is to look in on a situation out of hand after the fact and pass judgement. How can you imply she has no integrity when you don't even know her? Wait to pass judgement until you are sure you have ALL the information, because I promise you that, at this point, none of us do.

Posted by: JudyJane on May 19, 2005 03:28 PM
85. JJ
It is not Ms Way we judge harshly, it is KCE. Unfortunately, she seems to have taken an action which is a perfect example of KCE problems. She violated the law. Now, did she do her job, no. Did she live up to a higher code, no. Did she know the consequences, you betcha. By her own admissions she did this. Like I said earlier, of the three manners in which she should be judged one gets her fired. The other two get her jail time.

Posted by: Mark Beyer on May 19, 2005 04:02 PM
86. Mark, that only applies outside of the Animal Farm hierarchy. "Fired" and "Jailed" aren't words that apply to any aspect of government.

Posted by: Al on May 19, 2005 04:11 PM
87. Actually Al
I have seen both in Government, the military, unions, and the police. Of these, the unions are the most difficult to get people fired or jailed. All others vary in difficulty with the tenure the person has and the level of scrutiny and public dismay brought to bear. I have seen cheats, felons, and shysters caught and convicted. Often it takes time and as things slowly break down the culprit falls apart. Myself, I have been falsely accussed so many times by those same shysters and each time I came out of the fire a better person, stronger in my belief the scales of fate and justice will balance out. There may not be justice this month or this year but out of this mess there will be justice. The next general election or the next governors election, it doesn't matter which. Maybe even for the next four elections, the power of the voters conviction will permanently alter the face of Washington elections. It did in Florida to the dismay of the Democrats. It did in New York where republican gained significantly in all but the most staunchly Democrat areas after 9-11. My hope is it happens soon and the culprits get jail time and media embarassment(?). The public humilitation of having their candidate pulled kicking and screaming fromthe governors mansion would be a fitting end to the mismanagement of both our state government and the election mismanagement of the last 20 years.

Posted by: Mark Beyer on May 19, 2005 04:22 PM
88. Mark--I agree, we are experiencing the red tide washing across the state.

Posted by: Elvis is the King County on May 19, 2005 05:16 PM
89. Paul Berrendt is on KVI right now. The guy sounds liek an idiot. He can't remember he was right beside Ron Sims when Ron said the election had an error rate a bank would envy. He lays problems for the fraud on the Diebold machine's software. They had the machines for over a year including using in other elections yet never had a problem until now. The software they requested wasn't up to the state requirements. Duh, having dealt with machine and software acquisitions before, I can honestly say they should not have accepted it until it worked right. Even though Ms Way said they used falsified numbers Berendt says they didn't. Who would you believe, the one who altered the paperwork or the one who heard they altered the paperwork?

Posted by: Mark Beyer on May 19, 2005 05:28 PM
90. Jim,

It can't be fraud. According to King 5 News:

On Thursday morning, however, Elections spokeswoman Bobbie Egan said that ballot reports have always been created that way and that there was no falsification.

Egan said that any discrepancy between the numbers shown on the report and the actual number of absentee ballots was an oversight, not an intentional effort to mislead.

What a relief: They've always done it this way.

Posted by: Micajah on May 19, 2005 06:15 PM
91. Micajah
Saw your post on your home blog. Absolutely correct. Fraud always is still fraud.

Posted by: Mark Beyer on May 19, 2005 06:27 PM
92. Damage control by Bobbi Egan. Dave Ross said the same thing on the radio about 5:55PM tonight. Fraud has been exposed - yes it did influence the outcome, contrary to Egan and Ross's claim. They just don't want to admit it even if it is staring them in the face. Berendt, as I said before is the siamese twin of Bagdad Bob. End of story.

Posted by: KS on May 19, 2005 09:05 PM
93. Maybe a famous quote from our recent past would help. (finger pointing defiantly & waving on TV screen) "...I did NOT have certification relations with that form...er...that woman...!" And we are surprised?

Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on May 19, 2005 09:32 PM
94. Boy!....The implications in this revelation from Ms. Way - about the inaccuracy of absentee ballot counts - and the lack of any ability to collect and track data on absentee ballots - should make the people of this state finally open their eyes and seriously question the Democrat legislature's rapid passage of the All Mail Voting system! We all wondered WHY they would present this bill at this time - in the midst of so many problems with absentee ballots in the November election!

This bizarre action by the Democrats in the legislature - combined with Ms. Way's confession - leaves no doubt in my mind - that the absentee ballot fraud was a party effort! The system was designed to leave no audit trail....and the Democrats in Olympia tried to make use of that system - mandatory - throughout the state!

And - These revelations should bring an abrupt halt to any and all Absentee voting until the systems can be cleaned up and made to collect the proper data! Actually - the entire system should be replaced!
The KC Council used more than 1.2 Million dollars of our taxpayer money for a *quick fix* to this system in 2003! This was after other absentee mishaps and after the Felon was hired to create their software programs!

My God!

(Nice to see you back Micajah!)

Posted by: Deborah on May 19, 2005 09:41 PM
95. Why can't these actors just fess-up and take their lumps? I'd respect them much more for having the integrity to step up. Don't we teach our kids that lesson?

This is a major FUBAR and the actors are laughing & scattering like kids tossing a stink bomb in school. This is for keeps. This isn't mock court on TV. I'm sick of the kid gloves.

I hope we see some serious hammers fall & jail time. What will it take? Time for courtesy is long past. Crack some heads with legal batons. Let's see some elected officials wet their orange jumpsuits at sentencing time. The nation is watching us closely. We blow it here, and the other voting systems will surely rot from within.

Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on May 19, 2005 09:49 PM
96. If Logan & Sims are the managers they're supposed to be they should have known these details within weeks of the election. If so they have been witholding fraudulent information. FIRE BOTH OF THEM.
On the other hand if they didn't know all of the details FIRE BOTH OF THEM anyway because they should have known!
My bet is they were part of the coverup.
Call The First Witness>

Posted by: Keith on May 19, 2005 11:19 PM
97. lksimstrailgrammy,

"that woman"....great post to day dream about. But I am sure sims and logan will land on their feed working for a bank some place. "gentleman please, please gentleman".

On a personal note I hope all went well with your father. God Bless

Posted by: 4pawz on May 19, 2005 11:41 PM
98. Found this on http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com:

Fraud is defined to be "an intentional perversion of truth" or a "false misrepresentation of a matter of fact" which induces another person to "part with some valuable thing belonging to him or to surrender a legal right".

Of course this is not necessarily the standard that the judge will apply here, and it still leaves several questions open: Were the acts at issue merely attempts to provide a required report from inadequate data (which I don't think is fraud according to the above), or were they attempts to steal the election? If they were fraud, does it matter whether the fraud was a broad conspiracy on the part of the candidate/party or a fraudulent act by one person? Does the judge have to guess whether the fraudulent act likely changed the result?

Posted by: Bruce on May 20, 2005 12:36 PM
99. You Republican whack jobs need to accept that the right woman won. You are refighting the battle of Gettysburg.

Posted by: khalid rahim on May 24, 2005 07:54 PM
Post a comment
Name:


Email Address:


URL:


Comments:


Remember info?