The Republicans are now alleging that outright fraud occurred in King County in the November 2004 election. The Democrats can't defend Ron Sims' indefensible Elections office, so, as usual, they're making stuff up:
"It seems like the Republicans are scrambling for a new theory," Democratic spokeswoman Amanda Fuchs said.Actually, the theory that more ballots were counted than voters is Item #1 in the election contest petition filed on January 7th.
The reason that the Republicans can now raise the accusation to fraud is because they have more specific evidence. They've been walking through the King County Elections org chart, deposing just about everybody in a position of responsibility, and they're not finished yet.
Tomorrow should be an interesting day --
They've scheduled a deposition for non-specific King County Election officials to testify on some specific points, for example:
(1) the number of provisional ballots cast directly into Accu Vote machines without first being verified, the precincts in which they were cast, and the identities of the individuals casting those ballots.I wish I could be a fly on that wall.(2) the reconciliation and the number of discrepancies in the reconciliation of pollsite, provisional, and absentee ballots.
...
(6) the number of absentee ballots issued to voters, returned by voters, processed by PSI, accounted for by verifiers, openers, and tabulators.(7) the process of crediting absentee voters and any discrepancy between the number of individuals credited with voting by absentee and the number of absentee ballots tabulated.
Also, the transcript of Sam Reed's deposition has now been released. He made a number of statements that strongly supported the Republican case. I particularly enjoyed this exchange (p. 124-5):
Too bad King County has an inexplicable discrepancy of 875 between absentee ballots tabulated and absentee voters credited.
hat tip: Croker Sack for subpoena and Reed deposition transcript
Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at May 18, 2005 01:27 PM | Email ThisNow which MSM journalist was saying that this is all
about nothings and not even the Republicans were aledging Fraud.
- - - - -
Notes to self:
Never bank where Ron Sims banks as he runs elections where the accuracy is something a bank would be proud of
Reserve time to attend Going Away Lawn Party for pretend Governor Chris G.
Posted by: Bob on May 18, 2005 01:36 PMNow we have Logan, Huenneken and Reed. Is there a repository for any remaining depositions?
Posted by: Jim L on May 18, 2005 01:53 PMThe page cannot be found
The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.
Posted by: righton on May 18, 2005 02:10 PM
The page cannot be found"
That isn't an error righton, that's the central facet of KCElection's strategy: if you lose the records, you can't figure out who exactly to blame.
Posted by: Al on May 18, 2005 02:17 PMI hope the other side has something more than the screwed up vote counts. Like, maybe a witness that saw something.
Otherwise, this is going to be a long, long 4 years.
Posted by: DeadManVoting (aka Iguana) on May 18, 2005 02:29 PMnow, now--not polite to gloat; where is your 'home training'?
the "home" part was taken from YOUR money & given to the HOME-less; the 'train' part was land taken away from the Dinner Train group;
ergo, Sims speaks in prophecies, if you can decode them...good luck.
Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on May 18, 2005 02:33 PMAssuming the election is set aside (~June 4??)- there is still the appeal (date/duration?). (justice delayed, fraud prolonged)
When does this have to close in order to make the Nov election?
Posted by: Andy on May 18, 2005 03:08 PMA few sloppy vote totals by a few volunteers working elections is not going to get a legitimately elected sitting Governor thrown out of office, nor should it.
Even if you assumed this to be the case, The appeals process will take this well into 2006. With a time lag, when do you run an election, 2007? What is the point then?
You must remember, our Supreme Court is elected by the same majority that elected Christine Gregoire, Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell. They won't be fooled easily and they certainly have to be upset this folly has gotten this far.
Dino Rossi is going to be facing a very unfriendly court trying to explain his statistical anomolies.
Posted by: who'dthunk? on May 18, 2005 03:29 PMI hope Ron keeps the dinner train running long enough for the former attorney general to get to Woodinville and have some wine with her whine that is sure to come.
Posted by: SnoCo Voter on May 18, 2005 03:35 PMJudge Bridges spelled it out quite clearly for the Republicans in his latest rulings! FRAUD
He cited the Hill and Foulkes cases in wonderful detail - in an effort to show the Petitioners (Republicans) that they did NOT have to prove the number of illegal votes affected the election outcome...just that "the fraud, intimidation or a fundamental disregard of the law occured"...
What do you call it when one party (Democrats) allow sole custody of and allow an unknown number of blank ballots to be sent home unsecured with their fellow party members with no accounting upon their return? FRAUD
What do you call it when poll books have been altered with no explanation? FRAUD
What do you call it when unverified provisional ballots have been fed through accuvote machines by poll inspectors with insuffucient data in the pollbooks for future verification? FRAUD and Fundamental Disregard of the Law
What do you call it when County Elections officers certify election totals that they know have unresolved errors? Fundamental Disregard of the Law
I could go on and on....but.....why give the best stuff away?
Posted by: Deborah on May 18, 2005 04:02 PMI KNEW I should've voted twice to offset Gregoire's minions...
~J
Posted by: Jennifer on May 18, 2005 04:03 PMJDH hit the nail on the head: The only opinion important in this state is the people's opinion. With a rock-solid case in the court of opinions, Rossi has already won, and the GOP is going to sweep '06 and '08 right out from under your nose. Who'dathunk?
Posted by: Jonathan Gardner on May 18, 2005 04:05 PMKC Elections has said that a team was assigned to call people who received duplicate absentee ballots.
Did you ever receive such a call? If you did, did they give you any instructions on what to do with the extra ballot(s)?
I'm curious as to just how much of an effort they made to a), figure out the total number of duplicates, and b), get them back.
Posted by: ewaggin on May 18, 2005 04:23 PMThe black voters in the south in the 1960s were disenfranchised more or less legally by the laws of those states. Then the feds came in.
Posted by: Bostonian on May 18, 2005 04:23 PMWhy hasn't fraud been the argument since December? I realize we needed to gather evidence(since I did research for BIAW in December and January) to prove the fraud, but since the original research during the first recount, we have only found more evidence to back up the fraud argument. The people of Washington state are still angry about the Governor's election, especially after the session, but we need to have a consistent message Chris. Changing midstream is a terrible idea. In fact, it sounds a lot like the candidate who lost his bid for the presidency in November... Posted by: David on May 18, 2005 04:48 PM
Nope. Not one call from KC elections re the duplicate absentee ballot. My cell phone is my only phone, so phone records could easily prove it. :)
~J
Posted by: Jennifer on May 18, 2005 04:59 PMdon't let us down. the state is counting on you.
Posted by: Andy on May 18, 2005 05:05 PMWe need a revival of evangelistic on-fire Republicans to rally the grass-roots on the issues! The kind of moral correctness that has swept the Southern Part of the country (including California) is long over-due here. Right is right and wrong is never right (no matter how much spin is applied). No doubt there will be a lot of R flotsam to jettison to cleanse this state and put it in back on course.
Why is the US Attorney turning the other way?
Why is the RNC shunning Vance?
It's certainly not for lack of knowledge. They are getting inundated daily with "new information"
If this is such a "clear cut" case of a "stolen" election, why isn't everybody ganging up?
Posted by: who'dathunk? on May 18, 2005 05:20 PM
Are you up for debate or do you cower behind your little keyboard?
One thing I know for sure, While you're all out cring wolf, a real leader has emerged and thanks to her bold initiatives, we finally have a plan to solve gridlock in transportation, State Workers will finally be able to earn a living wage to conduct the people's work, Teachers are implementing an agressive new agenda to prepare our kids for the new world and the brain-drain has been stopped dead in it's tracks with a massive infusion of new college slots for our best and brightest, runaway gambling has been contained into restricted zones, an agressive campaign to stop smoking in Washington is underway, Boeing is having record sales, Last I heard, economic activity and the resulting tax revenues are up as well. Christine saved the military bases in Washington and sucessfully stated the case to actually increase our troop strength
Obviously, Christine is doing something right!
How can anyone even use the words "legitimate reporter" anymore?
Posted by: ScottM on May 18, 2005 05:57 PMWe should ignore 50,000 of our citizens because we don't like where they come from?
They are your future neighbors. What kind neighborhood do you want to live in? If you don't invest now, it will cost more later.
Posted by: who'dathunk? on May 18, 2005 05:59 PMAre you delusional? Between the additional cost of my Industrial Insurance Premiums, the cost of having to join the union, and the added increase in retirement costs, most of us are at a net loss in take home pay. I don't know where you get your information, but, you had better look for a better source. Also, there is no plan to ease the gridlock in transportation.
Posted by: Gil on May 18, 2005 06:00 PMWhy the hate? I am here discuss idea's and engage in friendly dialoge. If this is simply an attack zone for anybody not of a single-monotone mindset, that is sad.
Gregoire most certainly saved our bases. Just a mnonth ago, she was on the evening news preparing to meet with George Bush and state her case for keeping Washingtons bases. Well, I saw the list and it looks like she won.
Under Gary Locke, Boeing threatened and threatened to leave the State. Now Boeing is in a boom. It's the Governor who sets the tone for business at the state level.
education? WASL and the rising test scores. need I say more?
Gregoire just raised the most revenue we have ever seen to tackle transportation. There are 227 projects. Is that all of them? probably not but 227 is a fine start.
Posted by: who'dathunkl on May 18, 2005 06:07 PMper ms Gregoire: "we need to ensure that those who are here legally or otherwise...". Now about those "50,000 citizens" of yours. How many of those are here legally and how many "otherwise". I do believe the concern of the people writing on this blog is to obey the current laws and not to encourage more "otherwise" imigration. Posted by: Robert-in-Tacoma on May 18, 2005 06:14 PM
Neither the republicans or the democrats are interested in doing anything about immigration. If they were, it would have stopped a long, long time ago.
Demographers agree that the US is in serious need of imigration if we are to maintain our current standard of living. Ever hear of the Baby Boom? The process of how they arrive or did they fill out the right bubble on the computer form is irrelevant to the end result.
Do we welcome and help our new neighbors so we can build a better society? or do we shun our new neighbors and harden their spirit, motivation and self esteem?
What kind of next door neighbor do you want?
Are there any particlar "legitimate reporters" you have in mind?" There has been a lot of real damning info in the sloppy record keepings of King County and in the depositions. Our local media could have been digging for this info but it took an alternate news source (this blog) for it to become an issue. There are facts that indicate fraud that the local media should have been working on. As far as a hungry reporter goes, do you think a junior reporter trying to make a name for his/herself would jepordize a job if the editor said "don't bother with this"?
Just read the depositions for yourself if you don't believe this web site. Also, several months ago, both Logan and Read said they were not sure who won the election, as reported by the mainstream meada.
Please name one reporter in one story alleging fraud. They are being polite to report the spin of a Chris Vance "news" conference.
Posted by: who'dathunk! on May 18, 2005 06:30 PMI want a nexdoor neighbor who is here legally. If this state can jail a college student here on a legal visa that expired due to sloppy work by her attorney, why can't the same process be done to those who enter the country illegally and attempt to hide the fact? If we need to fix the imigration laws, fine fix them. But in the meantime, enforce what we have and don't encourage more illegal entries.
Posted by: Robert-in-Tacoma on May 18, 2005 06:32 PMseriously! I know a person registered in Snohomish County that lives in West Seattle and has for at least 10 years. I punched in the name and county on the voter database website.
What to do now? I know this person campaigned actively for Patty Murray in the past as well as Ron Simms.
Posted by: who'dathunk on May 18, 2005 06:34 PMPretty convincing evidence seing how that GWB has nothing to do with BRAC...
"Under Gary Locke, Boeing threatened and threatened to leave the State. Now Boeing is in a boom. It's the Governor who sets the tone for business at the state level."
It took the moving of the Boeing corporate office to Chicago to wake Locke up to the fact that he was doing nothing to encourage business development in this state, sounds like he was almost too late to me.
"education? WASL and the rising test scores. need I say more?"
And just what does Gregoire have to do with any of that? She has only been in office for what? Six months? Sounds like more of a GWB accomplishment to me.....
"She has
Gregoire just raised the most revenue we have ever seen to tackle transportation."
She had 28 cents a gallon, more than any other Governor in State history. I would have felt much better with the state squandering 28 cents instead of 37...
Posted by: Cliff on May 18, 2005 06:46 PMSorry I missed the fit you were throwing. Please don't be calling someone out "from behind their keyboard" while your fingers are flying away.
You're right, what I said was cute. It was also appropriate. Now go home. You make yourself look foolish holding up the liberal puke local media as some arbiter of truth.
Posted by: Danny on May 18, 2005 06:47 PMIt would be a fine thing to stand the local media up as evidence that since they did not report "fraud" then it must not have happened IF and ONLY IF the audience you are addressing invests any credibility in those sources. Unfortunately, most conservatives feel that the local media is strongly biased toward the left and toward democrats. It is the opinion of many that the local media would generally be soft of allegations that disfavor a Democratic politician. Therefore, the fact that there are no reports of "fraud" by the local media provides zero evidence to this audience that fraud did not exist. In Wisconsin, on the other hand, many similar issues occured as in Washington, and there WAS an accusation of fraud. My question to you would be, if it was fraud in Wisconsin, why don't the Seattle media call the spade a spade? Our opinion is that it's not because there was no fraud but that the local media is slanting the news to favor an ideology.
You will need a better "character reference" if you wish to convince readers of this blog that there was no fraud involved.
Posted by: Eyago on May 18, 2005 06:59 PMWho'da is just one of our regular trolls using another name....(There are so few Gregoire supporters - they have to recycle themselves...snicker...)
Who'da will try to bait you into a reply...(please be cautious of any questions posed by who'da - they are meant to distract and inflame - under the guise of *debate*).....IGNORE HIS/HER POSTS COMPLETELY AND THEY WILL GO AWAY!
Thank you.
p.s. The trolls will most certainly be out in force tonight and tomorrow now that the *Fraud* word has been unleashed! It scares the hell out of them and all they know to do is lash out! Watch the roads tonight as well - the trolls are dangerous when they've been drowning their sorrows....
Chris---
Don't get rabbit ears! People will criticize you no matter what you do...don't be defensive.
There is a time for silence and a time to speak.
Your press release was good---
Now shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!
I wish you would learn to type and learn to spell before you play with your dad's computer again.
Posted by: maggie on May 18, 2005 07:21 PMAre you aware that the governor of each state is the Commander in Chief of the National Guard of that state? You'd think that it would be important, therefore, for the (acting) governor to know (and care) about Washington Air/Army National Guard that was affected by the BRAC. I haven't heard Gregoire mention that the entire 141st Air Refueling Wing, WA Air National Guard (Fairchild) is MOVING out of state. For you non-military types, a wing is BIG! 500+ people - of course, it's in Spokane, so...
I guess she deserves credit for that too?
Posted by: KB on May 18, 2005 07:39 PMAmazing the Dem's are using Gary Lockes Theory "theory".....LOL
Has anyone heard if he was reprimanded from last weeks lil Comment?
Posted by: Chris on May 18, 2005 07:43 PMFraud is the word of the day. There is not substantiated evidence of fraud, where there was not back in January, to answer the charges of some of you lefty kool-aid drinkers.
Fraudoire and the Democrats are acting more insecure than usual. Whether the Supremes side for a new election or not, I'd say you have a good deal to be insecure about, such as the next election !
Posted by: KS on May 18, 2005 08:08 PMthat's it - whodat' change the argument and throw out a red herring and drink your socialist anarchy flavored kool-aid.
Fraud is the word of the day. There is NOW substantiated evidence of fraud, where there was not back in January, to answer the charges of some of you lefty kool-aid drinkers.
Fraudoire and the Democrats are acting more insecure than usual. Whether the Supremes side for a new election or not, I'd say you have a good deal to be insecure about, such as the next election !
Posted by: KS on May 18, 2005 08:09 PMWho would believe that Christine ("just call me Chris") saved anything?
No one with a brain.
When did the headless one change his moniker to "who'dathunk!"?
It's too obvious, but you can't think without a brain, and you sure need one.
Robert-in Tacoma: You seem reasonable. we seem to disagree but you prove that people can disagree and still be civil to one another.
Eyago: In WI, the US Attorney took the case and the local media also found problems. In WA, the US Attorney seems to not have any interest and based on a recent radio interview, seems he has trouble finding any basis for Federal investigation. That's enough proof to me.
maggie: Why the hate? are you married to timman? is he your brother? or both?
Scott M: I see your point, to a point, but I would counter with the fact that those are international personalities you cite. The Times, PI, KOMO, KING and KIRO have a responsibility to the community at large enhanced by the profit motive.
Tucker: Kool-aid comes in many flavors.
KS: let me assure you, I am an original, and worse for you? I'm in the majority so the fact others have appearently voiced my point of view here before? not suprising.
and finally, KS: We heard you the first time ( a joke! please! I have had the same delay problems so I understand) I did not throw out a red hering nor did I intentionally change the subject. Ask specifically and I will answer whatever question you throw at me. fair?
TO ALL: C'mon people! this forum is short lived if all we read here is, "Ya! what he said!"
We have serious divisions in the point of view department in this state and country. Deep down we all want the same things: safety, security, prosperity and happiness. Is there anything wrong with a little friendly discussion?
A friend of mine told me that there is no dialoge left in America any more, only a series of monolouges (sp?) One thing I remember when I was a little kid; the Adults would engage in lively, passionate and diverse discusssion. I see very little of that any more without somebody becoming offended. The good news? Things tend to cycle. We'll get back there once again.
Posted by: who'dathunk! on May 18, 2005 08:58 PM
Ba-bing--my thoughts exactly;
assimilation TO (our) land THAT YOU CHOSE TO COME TO is now a faded memory; try going elsewhere in the world & insisting on American culture being demonstrated to make YOU feel "at home!"
Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on May 18, 2005 09:38 PMhorsesass.org is more of your ilk - but we accept differing points of view over here - certainly more civily than horsesass.org. Can you refute that you don't look at things through a socialistic anarchistic lens ??
Posted by: KS on May 18, 2005 10:07 PMHow on earth could the Dems think they could hide everything? It seems at some point - they stopped trying to hide it! Someone should have told them that the "bullet-proof" thing didn't actually work for Clinton....
Ahhh! So much evidence to present!...I wonder how it's been packaged for presentation?
I hope it's televised!
Fraud! Fraud at last!
Posted by: Deborah on May 18, 2005 10:10 PM(we are ignoring the troll...)
Posted by: Deborah on May 18, 2005 10:12 PMI remember being a kid also (1950/60s) and people were either Democrats or Republicans but family values were the same among them and almost every family went to church or believed in God. Now in this world where you say we all want the same things I see the Republicans wanting church and family values guiding their lives while the Democrats are trying to take it from them. Everyone is debating politics but there is a lot more then that going down the drain in this legislature, our schools and neighborhoods. I really wish you where right when you say we all want the same things in life but it is not going that way. I wish you a sincere welcome to this web site and may God bless you and yours.
Before supporting their effort, you need to check out the sleeze they operate in. They are the mafia in disguise. Why are they insisting on a security clause slipped in after the fact in an election where a large majority of employees didn't get a chance to vote. Check out the disqualification status with Dept of Ecology for example and all the shaddy actions taken there. If they really cared about employees, they would have acted above board and made joining the union voluntary. The offer a pay raise and then take half of it away to fill their coffers, even if you don't join. If you refuse to pay, you face termination, even though it wasn't part of your employment agreement and you never got a chance to vote on it. Some support for the employees (NOT).
Posted by: tc on May 18, 2005 11:09 PM
(hint...hint)
Posted by: Deborah on May 18, 2005 11:21 PMImagine a high pitched gravely voice..."come children, there is candy!"....the cage door slamming behind you....and the diabolical laughter....
I think it was The Who who sang......"we won't get fooled again"
OK enuff......DON'T FEED THE TROLL
Posted by: Blueknight on May 19, 2005 12:01 AMI know it feels good to try to smack some sense into these liberal cult drones....God knows - we've been repressed for so long...
But if you've ever tried to reason with someone who's been programed by a cult - you will know it's an extremely frustrating process! They have a *script* running through their minds all day and all night..They do not deviate from that script!. They have been brainwashed.
It's going to take a lot more than the truth and facts - posted in a blog to reach them.
So smack away! But don't expect any progress!
Posted by: Deborah on May 19, 2005 12:15 AMProvisional ballots are those cast by voters whose names don't appear in poll books or who are voting outside their precincts. They aren't supposed to be counted until the voters' eligibility and signatures are verified.
Assistant elections superintendent Carlos Webb said yesterday that he had instructed the staff to count those unverified ballots, but he declined to explain why.
It seems to me that some posters here are rather quick to label and some even much too quick to call names and use derogatory terms. I find that reprehensible.
I don't know who Who'd is, but his discourse has been reasoned and polite. So what if he has an opinion that differes from your own. You say you respect other's opinions, but then you seem to shout down all opposition in the name of "bash the troll."
If someone is a Troll, ignore him. But if people are polite but disagree, cultivate them. Challenge them to defend their position but do it with respect. MAybe THEN you can claim this board welcomes alternatives. From what I have seen over the past few months this forum does NOT respect alternatives, and the balance is shifted so far in one direction that it sounds very much like an echo chamber for the right rather than a fair discussion of the relevant facts.
Posted by: Eyago on May 19, 2005 07:30 AMWAC 434-240-270 Maintenance of an audit trail on absentee ballots.
Each county auditor shall maintain an audit trail with respect to the processing of absentee ballots which shall include, but not be limited to, the following:
(1) A record of when each absentee ballot application was received, the date the ballot was mailed or issued, and the date the absentee ballot was received;
(2) The number of absentee ballots issued and returned, by legislative and congressional district, for each primary and general election;
(3) A record of the disposition of each request for an absentee ballot not honored;
(4) A record of the disposition of each returned absentee ballot not counted;
(5) A record of the time and place of each time the county canvassing board met to process absentee ballots;
(6) A documentation of the security procedures undertaken to protect the integrity of the ballots after receipt, including the seal numbers used to secure the ballots during all facets of the absentee ballot process;
(7) A reconciliation that all absentee ballots counted plus all absentee ballots rejected is equal to the total number of absentee ballots received.
RCW 29A.84.720
Officers -- Violations generally.
Every person charged with the performance of any duty under the provisions of any law of this state relating to elections, including primaries, or the provisions of any charter or ordinance of any city or town of this state relating to elections who willfully neglects or refuses to perform such duty, or who, in the performance of such duty, or in his or her official capacity, knowingly or fraudulently violates any of the provisions of law relating to such duty, is guilty of a class C felony punishable under RCW 9A.20.021 and shall forfeit his or her office.
[RCW 9A.20.021 sets the maximum punishment for a Class C felony a "confinement in a state correctional institution for five years, or by a fine in an amount fixed by the court of ten thousand dollars, or by both such confinement and fine."]
Posted by: ScottM on May 19, 2005 07:47 AMWho'd,
Yes, that bit of fact troubles me. I very much would like to know why the facts in Wisconsin constitute Fraud while the similar facts in Washington don't, but our Federal Prosecutor hasn't elaborated. I am reserving judgement until after the trial to see what facts do come up. However, there have been so many irregularities that heads need to roll for this regardless of whether fraud is proven.
And if the court case reveals blantant irregulariets that cast doubt on the outcome of the election, whether the election itself is thrown out will not take away from the fact that many will lose faith in the system and the people who have run it, and the party that was incharge and benefitted from it. The D's may have won the battle for the Governor's mansion with all their shennanigans, but it may have cost them in the long run.
Posted by: Eyago on May 19, 2005 07:53 AMI congratulate you on your high tolerance, it is to be commended. You ask (in essence) how to tell a dissenter from a Troll, but I truly believe you already know the difference.
If you substitute disrupter for troll (a deliberately derogatory term), does it make more sense? (Here's a hint: Watch for aggressive language or provocative posturing - they're usually a dead giveaway for trollish behavior)
No one here jumps on you for respectfully dissention, but they will immediately respond to foolishness.
As to the rest of your lecture, thanks , but no thanks. You do it your way, I'll do it mine....
Posted by: alphabet soup on May 19, 2005 08:02 AMI too am new to this forum. I think my first post was about a week ago, after reading for about a month.
I appreciate the approach you and Robert-in-Tacoma use on this message board as compared with others.
How anybody believes they can win in the court of public opinion by refusing to engage in reasonable discourse is beyond me.
Calling me a troll, stupid, brain dead, kool-aid drinker, refusing to engage me with an intellectual arguement, etc is not going to win my vote and I am in the majority opinion in Washington State.
Some on this board and in the public arena need to keep that in mind.
Posted by: who'dathunk! on May 19, 2005 08:10 AMBut we're just supposed to ignore this until a Legitimate Reporter or a government lawyer decides that it's OK for us to talk about it?
Some of us don't need other people--even Legitimate Reporters--to tell us what to think.
Posted by: ScottM on May 19, 2005 08:28 AMHow about we wait and see what the "facts" are that are submitted to the court in total, and then see how the appeals process sorts out the data and then decide?
You have a favorable Judge, in a favorable county with a $3,000,000 defense that employes the very best hand picked attorney the National GOP can muster. In other words, all of the variables are in your favor. All of them.
What will you do when the election is not overturned?
What will you do if by chance it is overturned and a new election is set in 2007 or so (after the appeals run their course) How many Democrats do you see throwing Christine Gregoire out of office with a year or so left on her term? One thing to keep in mind, by that time she will have been Governor for a long time and have a very compelling track record she will be judged on. What if the majority of Democrats like how she is handling her job as Governor? What if a few more think replacing a Governor with a year or so left would be counter productive to the State? How about those that are simpathetic to Mr. Rossi yet, would simply rather see him try again in 2008?
Posted by: who'dathunk! on May 19, 2005 08:38 AMThen she'd better get cracking as her approval rating right now is pretty dismal, and if the courts DO decide she did NOT win the election fairly, that will have a huge impact on her approval rating. She would need about a 65%-70% approval rating to withstand that kind of indictment.
Posted by: Eyago on May 19, 2005 09:03 AMYou see, Whoda, I actually adduced facts and made an argument based on them. You seem unable to comprehend that whole concept.
This is why people around here treat you disrespectfully, kid.
Posted by: ScottM on May 19, 2005 09:52 AMIf you really have a problem understanding why people on this blog are not as polite to you as you would like, maybe I can shed some light on it for you. Your arguments are of the usual mind-numbed variety we keep getting from the left. Our experience is that no matter how much evidence, even incontrovertible evidence, you are given, you will not relent in your opinions. That means you blatantly disregard the truth. So, in frustration, we end up name calling. This may very well be my last response to anything else you have to say. It is all too possible that this still makes no sense to you, and that's too bad, however, I will not waste any of my time attempting to convince you of your error. By the way, who said you were in the majority? If we are going to count dead people, maybe we have the majority. We just prefer to let our dead rest in peace, we don't wake them up every election cycle to vote. Posted by: REBEL on May 19, 2005 10:31 AM
If its true you are new to this blog why do you use the same name as other bloggers who have been here for months.
So, not only are you a troll. You are also a liar.
Posted by: Mark Beyer on May 19, 2005 12:49 PM"How about we wait and see what the "facts" are that are submitted to the court in total, and then see how the appeals process sorts out the data and then decide?"
Yer still missing it buddy. Care to inform all us simple minded folks who, in your opinion, qualifies as an "objective 3rd party?" The PI? The Times?...maybe C-BS? No...Ken Shram right? If you believe that any of these organizations/people are objective then
you're livin in a fantasy world.
As to your second comment about waiting until the "fact" come out at trial....there has already been AMPLE facts revealed in the sworn depositions that have been published that people in the KC Machine purposely reported/created false info on this election and broke the laws of this state....if you have truly been reading SP for a month or more you would know this. Or maybe you DO know this but chose to ignore it??
Posted by: Blueknight on May 19, 2005 02:56 PM