Kentridge High School will not allow full club rights to the “Truth Bible Club,” a group that asks kids to adhere to Christian conduct, though non-Christians are welcome. (More here.)
As second-class citizens (due to religious belief), they are permitted to scrounge around for an empty classroom to meet in if they are so inclined, but they are not allowed to be acknowledged in the yearbook, supported by the student body, use school supplies or advertise or announce their meetings, unlike other Kentridge Clubs. A suit was filed by the Alliance Defense Fund, and is now before the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.
Another Kentridge student group, the Gay-Straight Alliance, is an affiliated club, with full benefits.
Recall the recent controversy over HB 1515, a solution in search of a problem, created to imply that civil rights were being denied to some Washington residents. Consider this: one of these two clubs is allowed top-tier status, and the other one isn’t. One of these clubs is having to fight in court to be allowed freedom of association, and the other one never did. Does anyone believe the group that’s oppressed and in need of civil rights legislation is the one that didn’t need to go the Circuit Court to be treated equally?
Oppression of religious clubs seems to be a frequent issue in Washington schools...
In September 2002, the American Center for Law and Justice filed suit when Tausha Prince, a 10th-grader at Spanaway Lake High School, wanted to launch “World Changers,” a student-led Bible club. School officials and the Bethel (which means in Hebrew house of God) school district refused equal status for the club because it was "religious:" they cited the first amendment to the Bill of Rights as the basis to deny freedom and equality.
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit reversed a former district court decision, ruling that the Bethel District had violated Prince's constitutional rights: freedom of expression and assembly. The court determined that the school district violated the Equal Access Act of 1984 and the free speech clause of the First Amendment when it oppressed the Bible club’s access to the same benefits given to all the other student groups.
The Supreme Court wouldn't hear the Bethel district's squalmous appeal, saying "the 9th Circuit Court simply and correctly applied well-settled constitutional law." One really wonders why Bethel SD fought so hard, all the way to the highest court in the land, to deny freedom of assembly and expression. Are things going so swimmingly well in Spanaway that a religious club poses some sort of a risk to the kids? How much did all these attorneys cost the districts anyway?
The ACLU has utilized the above case to achieve its goals, applying the Equal Access Act as it sees fit. They liked the law. From WND:
Shortly after Prince v. Jacoby was decided, the ACLU sent an information letter to school officials in Washington State explaining the case "makes it clear that student clubs promoting tolerance for gay students are entitled to the same resources as other clubs."Because of the case, the Gay-Straight Alliance club in Kentridge High School has ASB affiliation, and full benefits. Now, however, with the Truth Bible Club v. Kent School District case, the ACLU changed their tune. The ACLU and the ADL (Anti-Defamation League) have filed amicus briefs opposing the Kentridge Bible club. They go so far as to say that Prince should probably be "overruled en banc."
No group will be allowed use of school district facilities which excludes or otherwise discriminates against attendance on the basis of race, sex, creed, national origin, or disability.Although any student can attend, the club asks attendees to commit to Christian conduct, which the ACLU is calling discrimination.
Similarly, the ADL, which has no stake in this case whatsoever, says that students are directly harmed by any group that discriminates on the basis of religion. (Substitute ideology for religion, and hear how that sounds.) Again, it is not an exclusive group, though its leadership is Christian in the same way that a Democrat club's leadership is Democrat: Rabbi Daniel Lapin of Toward Tradition opposes the ADL's involvement, which again attacks a positive Christian group for speculative reasons.
Should schools be secular institutions? Of course! Yet the stark contrast between what's permissible in schools today, and what isn't, screams that secular neutrality, in principle, is an active advance of atheism, in practice.
I don’t want to see a state-run church or a church-run state, but democracy will survive a few kids meeting in a Christian discussion group. We don't have enough money in the state budget for education, we're told, but "at least they're not reading the Bible!"
It's noteworthy, isn't it, how many similar cases have come from Western Washington schools?
Spanaway in 2002, and now Kent (started in 2003), and back in 1993, Lindbergh High School in Renton lost their federal case (Renton School District 403 v. Garnett) after they barred students from forming a religion club and meeting for prayer and Bible study. They must have too much money and time on their hands to waste it trying to reverse former court rulings about free speech.
Back to normal (hope that word is PC enough) we tolerate anyone one who thinks like us. Everyone else - off to sensitivity training (US), reeducation camps (China), Ghulags (USSR).
Posted by: Fred on April 27, 2005 12:05 PMOn a side note you forgot to mention the ROTC kids that planned on taking over Spanaway Lake and bombing it last fall.
Posted by: Danice on April 27, 2005 12:39 PMRespectfully, but no. Alternative views to the lib mantra is considered to be heresy, and no counter measure is too extreme. What's the point of going to all the trouble of a legal and solitary franchise of pc indoctrination if you're gonna allow any hairbrained light of truth to shine on the dark corners you've been trying to hide?
Once again, the ACLU is wrong and doing what it can to promote a Godless society. What do you suppose would happen if I had a son or daughter who wanted to start a "Friends of Islam Club" at their high school? It would be applauded by mnay, and opposed by practically nobody.
Posted by: Gary on April 27, 2005 02:14 PMThere's no need to "imply" anything. The civil rights of LGBT people are denied quite often in this state, and there is NO protection for them thanks to the lock-step Republican opposition.
The members of the Gay-Straight Alliance could LEGALLY be fired from an after-school job or denied auto insurance.
On the other hand, the members of this Bible group are protected under state law, such as RCW 49.60.030 and 1997 c 271 s 2, part of which reads as follows:
(1) The right to be free from discrimination because of race, CREED, color, national origin, sex, or the presence of any sensory, mental, or physical disability or the use of a trained dog guide or service animal by a disabled person is recognized as and declared to be a civil right. This right shall include, but not be limited to:
(a) The right to obtain and hold employment without discrimination;
(b) The right to the full enjoyment of any of the accommodations, advantages, facilities, or privileges of any place of public resort, accommodation, assemblage, or amusement;
(c) The right to engage in real estate transactions without discrimination, including discrimination against families with children;
(d) The right to engage in credit transactions without discrimination;
(e) The right to engage in insurance transactions or transactions with health maintenance organizations without discrimination...
(My emphasis on "creed" of course)
Posted by: Mickymse on April 27, 2005 04:35 PMGary The ACLU will protect you too, from Islam, Judaism, Budhism, Taoism, or any number of isms, being taught in our schools.
"All discrimination must be outlawed"
Posted by: Frank on April 27, 2005 05:08 PM
From the sounds of it, the club basically stated that you have to be a Christian to join.
Very un-Christian. Shame on them.
The person from the school stated this to be the only problem.
Carlson went on and on like a fool trying to get the guy to say something that he could nail him on. It was painful to listen to.
Posted by: auburnconservative on April 27, 2005 05:25 PMAny art major would know this, unless they were high for an entire year of art school.
Believe, don't believe, that's a choice everyone makes for themselves, but this book burning attitude about anything to do with Christianity has gone way overboard.
Since Washington schools are totally devoid of any learning anyway, we should ban ANY view that might facilitate learning, unless of course it is towards a liberal or deviant bias of ignoring facts, data, fundamental math, science and religion.
Posted by: Andy on April 27, 2005 05:56 PMMaybe the voters in the Kent school district approve of this sort of nonsense, but the state should withhold from the district the money spent on futile and frivolous lawsuits. Let the citizens (and everyone else who votes) in Kent who keep voting that schoolboard back into power pay the lawsuit price. Or vote in a board who might just represent the district! The rest of us shouldn't have to bear the burden of their lefty insanity.
Posted by: iconoclast on April 27, 2005 07:06 PMHey, I like porn. Porn is legal why not have a porn club. 18+ of course (to keep it legal). I won't make you go just put up flyers all over the damn place!
Stop being brainwashed at church and get some culture.
"The minority, the ruling class at present, has the schools and press, usually the Church as well, under its thumb. This enables it to organize and sway the emotions of the masses, and make its tool of them."
Albert Einstein
HOW ELSE COULD BUSH HAVE BEEN ELECTED? TWICE EVEN?
To quote Morgan Freeman in the movie The Big Bounce, "God is an imaginary friend for grownups."
Posted by: L0N on April 28, 2005 12:15 AMExactly how culturally literate is a person who cannot understand or recognize a quote or story that comes from the Bible?
Prohibit Shakespeare while your at it. From a purely academic viewpoint, portions of the Bible should be required in english lit courses.
Posted by: Andy on April 28, 2005 08:35 AMThat being said, this case, as auburnconservative has noted, is much ado about nothing. No one is preventing these kids from expressing their religion, but if they want to use school facilities and money, they can't exclude others from their club. Yes, religious groups have equal access, but they can't force people to sign an oath. If these kids really were interested in being good Christians, they would read their Bibles and drop the exclusion.
And, as anyone who listen to Carlson heard, their are religious clubs at the school. Perhaps someone should sit the children down and remind them of the old hymn "They will know we are Christians from our love." Shame the right has forgotten that part of Christianity.
Posted by: JDB on April 28, 2005 09:52 AMYou say "I am happy with my beliefs and really shouldn't have to have yours exposed to me or my children. Or paid for by my taxes.(i.e. school supplies / school funding)"
Why should kids be exposed to gay rights stuff? It is against many people's beliefs. Why should their tax dollars be used to have this pushed in front of their kids when they are completely against it?
There is nothing wrong with KIDS starting any kind of religous club. The government cannot (arguably) start one. The government has the obligation to allow people free speech. If kids want to start a club the government cannot censor it. The government is not endorsing a religion by allowing citizens to use their free speech rights.
Posted by: Fred on April 28, 2005 10:02 AMIf liberals have their way, there will be no inalienable rights, only rights granted by men, which can be easily bestowed by legislative enactment and just as easily removed by the courts. Liberals want to invent new lines of division and classes of people upon which to establish new rights and thus undermine the natural framework of humankind, in the vain hope that egalitarianism is the answer to their quest for utopia. Divide and conquer.
There is no rational constitutional prohibition against having a religious club in a public school. There is however the invention of separation by those who wish it so, to force their will on others, in their insistence on egalitarianism.
A bible study club at a public school in no way forces anything on anyone, except those who wish to exercise bigotry against bible study.
If it were a Koran study group I would imagine they would have no objection because they can argue for us to “understand” insane Muslim mass murderers so we can "reason" them out of killing us. If one truly wishes to live in a secular society—move to France where the local mullahs rule the communities. Soon France will be a predominantly Muslim nation.
A) No one is compelling anyone to do something against thier free will - there is no "forcing". The group is NON Compulsary.
and this is not specifically aimed at JDB but
B) separation of church and state does not mean exclusion of religious thought from the public square.
Posted by: Whidbey Teacher on April 28, 2005 11:07 AMIt is not compulsary, but it is exclusionary. If you are using my tax dollars, you should not be either. If you wish to be a publicly funded group, you have to keep your door open to everyone. The public square is open to everyone. If you want to exclude people, then leave the square.
That is what this issue turns on. Again, it is my understanding that there are religious groups at the school that are sanctioned, they just don't exclude fellow students who want to be memebers.
If you want a religious group of only like believers, than hold it in your church. Why do you need the State's sanction?
Posted by: JDB on April 28, 2005 02:28 PM* In California students are taught Moslem prayers and required to memorize passages from the Koran as part of "social studies". No complaint from NorCal or Socal ACLU. Imagine if the study of Christianity required memorization of Bible passages and prayers?
* In NYC for the 2nd or 3rd year in a row, Moslem students and Jewish students may display symbols of their religion for Ramadan / Hanukkah respectively, but any Christmas display is forbidden. The NY CLU has no problem with this at all.
Other examples exist. Textbooks in states from Arizona to Maine have been found to contain blatant Islamic propaganda, some have been removed but with no help from ACLU at all.
The ACLU does not oppose the teaching of Islam in public schools. One can speculate why.
ACLU = Anti Christian Litigation Unit
Posted by: Not A Dhimmi on April 28, 2005 05:14 PMThanks for the humorous comments, and the lesson in what happens to liberals who cozy up to the bong in substitution for the book.
A bible study club at a public school in no way forces anything on anyone, except those who are bigoted against bible study.
If you don't like the club, don't use it -- you can barely read anyway so whats your problem?
Say I am interested in Chess club because I want to know more about chess, all I know is knights were the guys on horses. Now say I am not allowed to attend meetings until I signed a document stating the Kasparov Gambit was the only way to open a game. I don't know if that is true and might complain if I worked myself in a twist over it. Say then instead that I could attend meetings and hear why they thought Kasparov Gambit was so wonderful. I could make up my mind informed. Knowing that they require acknowlegment of the KG to be a voting member of the club, I could choose to buy into the tenets of thier ideology and signing the form is no big deal. If not I could form my own club where the Fischer Defense is touted best. Which senario is it?
Posted by: Whidbey Teacher on April 28, 2005 10:51 PMA bible study club at a public school in no way forces anything on anyone, except those (morons) who wish to exercise bigotry against bible study.
A Chess club that requires members to engage in playing chess is not a fascist club. No one is beating down your door to join your elementary school club for moron's, but if they were, no one would care -- so grow up and leave them alone!! At least -- unlike you -- they are studying tolerance of idiots like you.
GR, go bore (amuse) someone else with your insipid meaningless nonsense.
It seems that the school has a requirement that all clubs are non exclusionary...so the gay club can't force you to swear that you are gay in order to vote. Same for all clubs so same for this Bible club.
But pressing your question. Say you did swear allegiance to the Kasparov Gambit and did vote for next years officers. During the summer, one of the club members sees you committing the sin of playing the Fischer Defense and reports you to the club. The club throws you out. You say...no, no, no, it was only a momentary loss of faith and I repent. The club say no and still throws you out. You go to the ruling authority for school clubs and say, Make them let me in. The school says how did I get invovled in judging the sin of the Fischer Defense. If I were the school I would build a plan that keeps me out of judging sin.
As for those of you who are attacking the ACLU, I assume you are equally upset at them for defending that commie lib Rush Limbaugh in Florida.
If you want to have an exclusionary club, have it at your church. If you want to have a club at school, you need to allow everyone an equal chance to be an equal member. Is that really that hard to understand? (all right, for some one like amused, apparently it is hard to understand that the sky is blue, but I think that 90% of the people here can understand this arguement).
Posted by: JDB on April 29, 2005 09:38 AMYou are quite correct. Jesus would probably call you a dumb a$$, and tell you to grow up and leave harmless bible study clubs alone.
Posted by: Amused by liberals on April 29, 2005 09:42 AMNice try stupid, but arguement is spelled argument.
The club can be at the school. The club as currently formed cannot be sanctioned by the school. The club is suing the school to force the school to sanction their club.
Nice try, but your grammar is still terrible, and you still have no arguement.
Posted by: JDB on April 29, 2005 01:48 PMAttempt – for a moment – if you are capable of it – to focus on the simple issue at hand. A simple condition of entry is neither an act of conscription, nor an unreasonable requirement of participation. It does however make a shallow pretext under which someone might argue as you do.
No one was being forced to participate in the bible study club.
Your trivial attempt to distort the truth is pathetic. Apt comparisons abound including Muslim American clubs that study the Koran, but you will play hell removing them, because of the invocation of freedom of religion. The authentic interest you pursue in preventing bible study clubs in schools is motivated by prejudice born of liberal egalitarian stupidity. Approving the prohibition of activities you dislike in the professed interest of "fairness" and "justice," when neither is imperiled, is simple intolerance of the activity. Bible study in schools hurts no one, except the sensibilities of bigots against Christianity.
JDB,
Your comprehension is improving, keep it up.
But pressing your question. Say you did swear allegiance to the Kasparov Gambit and did vote for next years officers. During the summer, one of the club members sees you committing the sin of playing the Fischer Defense and reports you to the club. The club throws you out. You say...no, no, no, it was only a momentary loss of faith and I repent. The club say no and still throws you out. You go to the ruling authority for school clubs and say, Make them let me in. The school says how did I get invovled in judging the sin of the Fischer Defense. If I were the school I would build a plan that keeps me out of judging sin.
GR - I think that you are equating actions, commission of a sin, with a profession of belief- a different animal altogether. It is not that the Fischer Defense is verboten per se, rather an acknowlegement of Kasparov as the ideal striven for.
Posted by: Whidbey Teacher on April 30, 2005 05:21 PMThe only problem that matters is the fact that school authorities (and the liberal segment of society) have a great deal against Bible study groups, and they will use whatever pretext they can invent to eliminate them.
You are hung up on the spectre of rules that are not what you think they are -- and thus do not matter.
Thanks for your comments.
Posted by: Amused by liberals on April 30, 2005 11:30 PMThe only problem that matters is the fact that christians (and the conservative segment of society) have a great deal against liberals, and they will use whatever pretext they can invent to eliminate them.
You are hung up on the spectre of rules that are not what YOU think they are -- and thus do not matter. (ie the bible)
Why not just admit you are bitter towards Christians? Christianity is something that people increasingly do not understand in this country, and not un-like the rest of our country's history, people don't like/hate what they don't understand. Why are we surprised about this?
Christians: why are you upset about being persecuted? The Bible says that the word of the gospel is foolishness to the unbeliever and Christians should take joy in their persecution.
This is not to say that turning the other cheek means being a doormat, but why are you surprised and engaging in bitterness and name-calling with people who hate you because they don't understand your beliefs and don't know your Savior?
Christ called the church to have an impact on the world through love, but also called it to set itself apart from the world.
BE DIFFERENT!
Posted by: Former Kentridge Student on May 12, 2005 12:06 PMThe gay-straight alliance has no relevance to this as the determination of what makes someone gay is not a personal choice (like religion), but the multiple behaviorial gene expression that determines that aspect of sexual orientation. All of the studies determining homosexuality derivation were completed with an alpha level of significance of
Posted by: Mike on November 18, 2005 09:43 AM