This morning's Seattle Times editorial -- "A nasty turn in election challenge" -- criticizes Martin Ringhofer for challenging hundreds of voter registrations of people with foreign-sounding names, under the theory that some of them might not be citizens. Ringhofer's scheme to investigate people for non-citizen voting solely on the basis of a non-Anglo-Saxon name is just plain stupid.
But the Times editorial makes one howling error that undermines their outrage.
State election officials are not aware of a single documented instance where a non-citizen voted in the governor's race.This is simply not true. As I've written before, I learned of two documented cases of non-citizens who voted in November directly from King County election records nearly a month ago. Since then I've personally discussed these cases with several state and county election officials.
On Mar. 8, I discovered in King County election records two cases of non-citizens who were credited with voting in King County in November. Later that day I sent an e-mail about this to Assistant Secretary of State Steve Excell. I know he read my e-mail because he sent me a personal reply on Mar. 9. Later that week I spoke with King County Superintendent of Elections Bill Huennekens and he personally gave me some additional documentation on these cases. On Mar. 29 I discussed these cases in a phone call with Dan Satterberg, chief-of-staff to the King County Prosecutor and a member of the county canvassing board. Oddly, the elections office hadn't brought these cases to his attention, so I faxed him the documents. On Mar. 31 I publicly asked Dean Logan a question about these cases at Julia Patterson's town hall meeting, specifically wondering why he didn't forward this information to the canvassing board as required by law. Sam Reed was also on the panel, so he knows about this too.
Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at April 05, 2005 09:06 AM | Email ThisJust another glaring example of the lack of credibility which pervades what passes for MSM in the Pacific Northwest.
Thanks, Stefan, for bringing crap like this to the light of day.
Posted by: SnoCo Voter on April 5, 2005 09:21 AMStay focused, state elections people! Can you say "Proof of citizenship required at registration????"
Posted by: Michele on April 5, 2005 09:23 AMBut due to the efforts of Sound Politics and some other sources, we do learn of such malfeasances as Stefan describes. However, there's still a threshold amount of public discussion that must occur BEFORE the Times grudgingly describes in its hallowed pages some fraction of the subject of that discussion. Expect them to quit denying the 'non-citizen voters' in a day or two, after this topic has circulated among us super-cognoscenti.
Posted by: Insufficiently Sensitive on April 5, 2005 09:37 AMBut don't go looking around, remember, it's time to move on.
Posted by: Brad on April 5, 2005 10:10 AMI suppose that responsibility lies with the people (so long as they conduct their investigations in a very PC manner) and not the media.
Just like the responsibililty to challenge eligible voter registrations lies with the electorate and not elections workers.
Posted by: Colin on April 5, 2005 11:02 AMPudster
Posted by: Puddybud on April 5, 2005 11:13 AMI guess I'm wondering if this is old news being brought up again to try and change the subject from any new findings.
Posted by: Ken on April 5, 2005 11:27 AMYou might as well write a check to Ward Churchill while your at it.
Posted by: Andy_ on April 5, 2005 11:33 AM(1) The Times, many elected officials are despirately trying to maintain the Status Quo and leave the impression that everything is just fine and people should have faith in their elected officials as legitimate governing authorities. If the election is overturned there will be some real public quesitons about "legitimate government authoritiy" that these folks don't want the public asking.
(2) In regards to cleaning up the election rolls, the Secretary of State (Sam Rino Reed), King County (Dean Logan), and a host of other Counties have said this is what citizens should do, just don't ask for any public documents that will allow you to efficiently do that. Now that vigilanteeism is starting to happen and people are taking ownership of trying to do what County and State Government refuse to do, the media is upset with WHOM? With the the activists. Why? Well because it is now clear that corrupt politicians and those MSM interests aligned with them, don't want fair elections based on legitimate voters. They would rather have illegitmately elected officials that they know and love so the status quo can continue.
If County and State officials don't start acting pretty soon they will have a much bigger vigilantee problem than they can imagine.
Posted by: Bob on April 5, 2005 11:34 AMWhat do you mean by define?
This may help:
a·ware (ə-wâr')
adj.
Having knowledge or cognizance: aware of the difference between the two versions; became aware of faint sound.
Archaic. Vigilant; watchful.
[Middle English, variant of iwar, from Old English gewær.]
State election officials are not aware of a single documented instance where a non-citizen voted in the governor's race because election officials have no way of knowing if a voter is a citizen or not, and further, they don't want to know.
Or perhaps a better example might be: Are you "aware" that your reference to Tom Delay and your allegations have no bearing at all to the topic at hand. For that matter, are you also "aware" that it appears once again that your only purpose in posting is to try and deflect discussion away from the rather glaring errors of the MSM.
I suspect headless, that the only thing you are truly "aware" of is yourself.
Posted by: Jay on April 5, 2005 12:51 PMI have the loophole they're using.
Stephan, you know two specific cases of non-citizen voting.
That is not _exactly_ "A case of a non-citizen voting _for_ _Governor_".
This is the same insane logic that says "We don't care if there were 4 million illegal votes cast, you can't prove for WHOM they were cast -> nyah nyah."
Posted by: Al on April 5, 2005 01:15 PMNo fair bringing up Tom Delay. He's a senator from Texas and has nothing to do with counting votes in King County. Is this site named "The Hypocricy of Washington Republicans"?
No, it's "Sound Politics" which we all know means 'bashing and defaming liberals' and ignoring the logical fallicies and inconsistencies of their positions.
I mean, where else are you going to see the party of "States Rights" and local rule begging for the Feds to come in an take charge.
Where else are you going to find the party of "all taxes are evil" the least intrusive government is best say we should spare no expense to ensure not a single FELON nor foreigner is allowed to vote.
GET WITH THE PROGRAM LUCY!
Posted by: Unkl Witz on April 5, 2005 01:46 PMIf it weren't taken by Ron Sims, I'd nickname you '99.98'. Nice try, but you're way off.
Are you disputing the fact that state officials knew, and the Times was incorrect - or are you just spewing anger?
Posted by: Larry on April 5, 2005 01:52 PMBut I must have missed the news about Tom Delay, can you give a link or something to anything that even hints of him being convicted of anything mentioned above?
Why are you trying to rationalize the poor handling of elections here in WA with, what you perceive, as hypocrisy of some non-WA politicians? One has nothing to do with the other no matter how poorly they may have acted it does not change the apparent corruption in this past WA election. Rationalizing bad behavior with someone else's bad behavior is a rather desperate argument.
Posted by: Fred on April 5, 2005 02:00 PMI was merely trying to get Lucy back on topic here. Why take up valuable comment space on this forum with discussions of vermin like Tom Delay. I can certainly understand why your side is reluctant to get into that topic.
Posted by: Unkl Witz on April 5, 2005 02:10 PMSounds like you have missed a lot. Delay has a number of both legal and political problems to deal with regarding some fundraising he was associated with and some trips he took that were paid for by folks who should not have done so.
But you are absolutely right, as always. That scandal has nothing whatsoever to do with our own little comedy of errors here on the shores of Puget Sound.
As always, it's good to hear from you.
Posted by: Unkl Witz on April 5, 2005 02:22 PMCould it be that with the Dems running State and King County Gov't that they would in effect be investigating themselves?
What? Sam Reed is a Republican? Yeah, right.
Posted by: smoke on April 5, 2005 02:27 PM"And I have no idea if they knew or didn't know."
Well, glad to see that you're adding value, as always! If only you were so forthcoming on all the other topics of which you profess knowledge and know only the typical party line.
Oh well, I guess it's better to have you around for humor than not have you around at all!
Regards
Posted by: Larry on April 5, 2005 02:29 PMI miss you on Got Soccer. Someone's using your name and it's just not the same.
ciao
Posted by: KyGuy on April 5, 2005 02:46 PMBut then again, neither is Cantwell. She stole her election just like Frauddie
Posted by: Brad on April 5, 2005 02:57 PMI'm not sure why you say that there is no sympathy for a poor child (typical tear jerk example) compared to Teri S. The comparison is that Teri's parents would have cared for her, which you are against, but you want the state (read taxpayer) to care for every child. Not quite the same.
Libs always make out that reps want war, want to let everyone starve on the streets and let a few powerful friends (excluding lawyers, they are dems) take all the money. Your stereo type is such nonesense!
Posted by: Fred on April 5, 2005 03:01 PMYou make an excellent point: the presumption of innocence in our criminal legal system. Could you post that just a little louder so your good friends here on Sound Politics understand. Maybe then they will let up a little on poor ol' Dean Logan.
Posted by: Unkl Witz on April 5, 2005 03:14 PMMy apologies to you and the entire United States Senate. I misspoke when I referred to Tom Delay as a "Senator from Texas." I deeply regret the sordid implication that this man was ever a part of that august body.
Posted by: Unkl Witz on April 5, 2005 03:20 PMAbout the DeLay allegations - they're totally false and fabricated by a democrat prosecutor, just like the charges against Bork and Thomas were. Remember what Rush says about the democrats: It's not the facts of the situation, it's the seriousness of the charges!
Of course, when it is reversed, when the republicans are charging that there were serious problems with the election, and when they produce proof, then the democrats just yawn and blow it off, calling them sore losers.
Posted by: Jonathan Gardner on April 5, 2005 03:21 PMMy OPINION is that there is more than sufficient evidence to say that the election is in doubt. I come to that opinion from the evidence shown here and the complete void coming back from the officials or the MSM to refute anything factually. There has been no attempt to expain the discrepencies. Just that "this is accuracy a bank would be proud of" statements, which you know is totally false - banks get to the penny.
I would like this resolved so that this state can have confidence in the most basic values and rights of this nation and state and that is that elections are fair. I take fair to meaning that the ballots are counted correctly and that the people responsible for the election ensure that only people allowed to vote actually vote.
Posted by: Fred on April 5, 2005 03:30 PMbtw how much money are you making off this site..
Posted by: anon on April 5, 2005 04:03 PMps... If you had any gonads, you wouldnt be calling yourself anon....
Posted by: Chris on April 5, 2005 04:12 PMIf you weren't anonymous and left a real email address, you'd probably know that Mr. Ringhofer trolled this site for emails and spammed many of us. Regardless of whether he's right, he's a spamming troll. Are you sure you're not him?
Posted by: Larry on April 5, 2005 04:59 PMIn his favor - I have to admit - at least He's doing SOMETHING! Heck - I have a non-anglo last name and wouldn't have a problem with verifying my citizenship! Martin Ringhofer is a *legal* alien with US citizenship. He has reason to be upset with those who come to this country and don't take the steps required for citizenship - yet take advantage of our lax laws and election system!
Do you really believe that only 1 or 2 non-citizens voted in our state election in November?
I would bet there were hundreds - if not thousands!
I would say - rather than insult the man - give him some suggestions for methods that would be more *PeeCee* in exposing non-citizen voters!
Posted by: Deborah on April 5, 2005 08:39 PMIn his favor - I have to admit - at least He's doing SOMETHING! Heck - I have a non-anglo last name and wouldn't have a problem with verifying my citizenship! Martin Ringhofer is a *legal* alien with US citizenship. He has reason to be upset with those who come to this country and don't take the steps required for citizenship - yet take advantage of our lax laws and election system!
Do you really believe that only 1 or 2 non-citizens voted in our state election in November?
I would bet there were hundreds - if not thousands!
I would say - rather than insult the man - give him some suggestions for methods that would be more *PeeCee* in exposing non-citizen voters!
Posted by: Deborah on April 5, 2005 08:40 PMGlad you're back on the "foreign sounding names" case. I knew it was near and dear to your heart.
Also love your analogy comparing yourselves to "rats in a maze".
Excellent double post Deb, right up to your usual standards.
Posted by: Unkl Witz on April 5, 2005 08:58 PMNow lets get down to business here folks. Why did the Seattle Times LIE? Cause Headless Lucy, Nelson, Unkl Witz and others (BTW, where dem skool goils?) would lose their their face and backbone once their beloved paper start acting like the Mikwaukee newspaper and admit their mistakes in investigating this fiasco. The Slimes and Puke-Indigestioner will NEVER get their respect back after this election is overturned. I know the editorial trolls are reading this. How else would they make mention of Stefan's good stuff along with the WSDCC?
We're close people. As it gets toward the trial date, the other side will get nastier. Watch and see. They will start losing their cool.
NUFF SAID!!!!
Pudster
Posted by: Puddybud on April 5, 2005 09:43 PMSeems like that has already happened.
Maybe they never had Good Home Training
in Leftist Troll Class (or do they call it a cell?).
It is "beyond" offensive to find out that elected and appointed governmental officials are not following the laws -- i.e. elections officials not undertaking the process to remove convicts and felons from exercising voting rights; allowing the dead to vote; not requiring proof of citizenship when soliciting voter registrations through the DOL.
Americans ASSUME the laws are being followed. It is disrespectful and disgraceful to allow non-citizens the same rights and privileges as U.S. Citizens. It is a Class C Felony to register when not qualified, and a Class C Felony every time an illegal voter, votes. Each offense means 5 yeas jail time, and $10,000 fine.
There are laws to preserve those rights and privileges but they are rendered worthless thanks to the Secretary of State, the Attorney General, the Prosecuting Attornies who will not prosecute, and the County Auditors who are charged to enforce the laws: not protect those who violate them.
The challenge of DOL registrants on the basis the may be non-citizens amounts to housekeeping the county auditors are required to do in their official capacity. The effort amounts to holding election officials responsible for their duties set out under the law. The effort demonstrates a US citizen’s willingness to do more then those who we have elected to ensure the integrity of our election system.
I never thought I would be called “an IDIOT,” and a racist on the public airways, the printed media, and the internet, for doing what I consider a privilege, to defend provisions of our Constitution, and the laws protecting all – including the non-citizens.
Having put forth the effort to become a citizen, there is nothing more offensive to me then to learn that others are given the same rights I have worked hard for and they have done nothing except to get a driver's license. Shameful. They are diminishing the right and privilege of all legal voters, and violate the “equal protection under the law” provisions guaranteed to all U.S. Citizens. Few understand how “naturalized” US Citizens feel about this, and no-one deserves to be called “AN IDIOT,” “a RACIST,” or call anyone names for exercising rights guaranteed by the US and Washington State Constitution.
There are also other problems inherent in people living and working here illegally in America. For example: they work and may be paying taxes and they do not file tax returns because they will be "found out" and may be deported. Simple solution. Become a citizen of the United States and be an honest contributor to this country. Anyone is allowed to hold dual citizenship. Not a problem. It's only a problem because they choose not to become legal citizens. One very offensive act involves individuals and businesses hiring non-citizens and paying them subservient wages, and no benefits. This is illegal and degrades human dignity and respect ALL human beings deserve, regardless of citizenship status. To illustrate, the former Chief of Police in New York City, who was nominated to replace Tom Ridge as the head of the Homeland Security Administration, lied about having employed an illegal non-citizen, which ended up embarrassing the US President and caused him to withdraw from consideration.
Our elected and appointed representatives should have been enforcing the laws all along; something every citizen assumes they are doing. To find out they haven't been doing it is shocking, to say the least. Time to clean up the system, to make it as good as it can be. To "find" uncounted absentee ballots so long after the election has been certified is reprehensible and points to lax election procedures and incompetent training. Those people voted according to the law and their votes are not counted. Their voice has been taken away. For non-citizens to be voting, for convicts to be voting, for the dead to be voting, for people to be voting who are not registered, dilutes the votes of legal voters.
America is a wonderful country.
We have freedoms and rights and privileges that other nations do not extend to their people. We have those rights and privileges because we have rules that govern our actions and keep things working in a fair and honest fashion, supposedly. When people fail to do their jobs completely and accurately, when problems such as this past election have brought to light occur: the system is broke.
The only course of action to take at this point is to identify all of the problems and institute corrections. Election reform is long past due.
RINGHOFER is obviously not indigenous to the United States, and I would welcome anyone giving me a call to question if I am a U.S. Citizen. In fact, it would make me feel proud to answer that I am a U.S. Citizen, and given the ridiculous election we have just witnesses, and participated in, anyone actually doing something to try to keep it from iever happening again would renew my confidence in our election system.
Thank goodness we live in a country where we have the right to elect people to power and are not held hostage by those to assume it, no matter what.
Thank goodness we live in a country where we have the power to enact new laws to fix old injustices.
Let's get all the illegal voters legal so they to can join in legal voters' efforts to make this nation the best it can be.
Posted by: martinringhofer on April 6, 2005 01:04 AMThat you would be called names is an unfortunate consequence of the present state of discourse. That some of them would come from "my side of the fence" is especially disappointing.
I was surprised to hear some of the commentary about you, but without offering you the opportunity to speak your peace.
Did the slimes interview you for the piece they wrote (or pull old comments to bolster their case)?
Thanks for your comments.
Participants at this website should note and applaud the attitude you display in these comments.
The struggle in this election is between those who will use any means to destroy America and those of us who insist on protecting it. You sound like one of those who wishes to protect it. For that I thank you, and hope you know that I am with you. This is a revolution, and you are on the right side of it. In order to become a citizen, you were required to know more about American history than most liberals will ever know. You understand what this is all about.
Don't listen to those who attack you. The left is on it's way out of power, one way or another. They are abusive, but only to those who won't hit back, violent but only when they can avoid any risk to themselves, and they are devious but only when they have nothing to lose. They are cowards who will not win because many of their own people are more and more sickened by the lengths they will go to in order to prove the depravity and bankruptcy of their ideas.
Hang in there and once again, thank you.
Posted by: Amused by liberals on April 6, 2005 11:06 AM