In this Seattle Times column, Kate Riley argues that this state's community colleges "are, in many ways, the workhorses of higher education". Her argument didn't interest me much, because I favor radical reform in higher education, but her metaphor did. If some institutions are "workhorses", then others — which she does not name — must be "show horses", institutions that look pretty but are not pulling their share of the weight.
Riley does not name any show horses, and I would not expect her, or anyone else at the Seattle Times, to do so. As understand it, the newspaper believes that any criticism of higher education in the state, however justified, would lessen public support for the institutions. So the newspaper avoids holding them to account, if possible.
But there must be some show horses in our public educational system. Any bureaucracy as large as those that run the schools in this state will accumulate show horses over time. And, though the Seattle Times may not be interested in finding those show horses, the taxpayers should be*. So, let's see if we can, together, identify some show horses in our educational system. And let's make this search broad. I don't see any reason to limit the search to institutions of higher education. If you know of a school, a department, or a practice that is a show horse, share that knowledge with us.
Those familiar Washington's colleges and universities will immediately suspect that Evergreen State is a show horse. I share that suspicion, but must admit that I do not know enough about the college to be certain that it should be put out to pasture. So I will leave Evergreen State to others who are better informed. (For what it is worth, the college seems pleased by Gregoire's budget. I am sure they got an increase because Gregoire thinks Evergreen State is a workhorse, not because their faculty voted, at a guess, 90 percent for John Kerry in the last election.)
But I can identify a show horse practice. Teachers in Washington state, like teachers in most other states, can get higher pay by taking courses, usually from ed schools. There is no evidence that these courses make them better teachers. I once asked my mother, who taught elementary school and then special education for years, whether any of the courses she had taken had made her a better teacher. She thought about it, said no, and then brightened a bit and said that she had enjoyed some of them. Which is not a sufficient reason, in my opinion, for the taxpayers to pay teachers to take those courses. Nearly every teacher I have spoken to has the same opinion as my mother about the usefulness of the courses. I have never seen a formal study that showed that these courses improved the effectiveness of the teachers who (usually) suffer through them.
So there's my show horse, just to get things started. Now it's your turn.
Cross posted at Jim Miller on Politics.
*(Note that this is true whether you favor lower expenditures for education, the same expenditures, or higher expenditures. Putting a show horse out to pasture releases resources that can be returned to the taxpayers — or used by work horses, or both.)
Posted by Jim Miller at April 04, 2005
08:50 AM | Email This
Why? Yes, we know, you believe that they are all a bunch of commie-hippies. But do you have a single fact to back up what you even admit is an unfounded attack. The Evergreen State College is consistantly ranked as one of the best liberal arts instituions in the country. Name another college in the Pacific Northwest that has as good of a reputation.
I, like most of you, suspect that to be a conservative blogger, you simply have to base your oppinions on unverifiable anecdotes. It also helps to have no knowledge of the subject that you criticise and no facts, that way you have less of a chance of being constructive. I have talked to several people, and they all agree with this.
Posted by: JDB on April 4, 2005 09:16 AMThe second week is school break.
When are the kids taught? When these kids get in high school it has one of the greatest dropout rates, even when you just consider Washington state.
Not much for a "show" horse example, but maybe we can call it a "prancer".
Posted by: swatter on April 4, 2005 09:34 AMCH needs to take the next step to a clean house:
Why should taxpayers pay for any "education" at all?
I think you named the "Showhorse." It's the K-12 system. Ii's very expensive, much effort spent on image creating, and little result.
That's why the Community College is the "workhorse," finishing what the K-12 system should have done. How else do you explain over 1/2 the CC feshmen having to take remedial classes?
Mark
Posted by: Mark on April 4, 2005 10:11 AMI agree, Jim, with your assessment of the Evergreen State College. When I offered my daughter a college education I had two requirements: It had to be in a field she could earn a living at and it was good for any in-state public institution except Evergreen.
Posted by: Saltherring on April 4, 2005 10:12 AMthanks for the clarification, JDB.
Posted by: Richard Easbey on April 4, 2005 10:12 AMIt's amazing how many people really believe this mindless propaganda.
The purpose of college is not to prepare students for a job.
The purpose is to collect your money and promise you a piece of paper. Period. No job guarantee. No career guarantee. No money back. If you're successful, you might get your face on the alumni newsletter but otherwise, "don't call us, we'll call you."
Or to put it another way, why did Bill Gates drop out of a well known "four-year institution" which should have equipt him for a professional career? Or does Saltherring know something that Bill Gates missed? (Or Steve Jobs or Michael Dell or....)
Posted by: DannyHSDad on April 4, 2005 10:25 AMWhich side of the argument do you want? You are criticizing people for NOT producing a fact to support a hypothesis that you say these people say is unfounded. You can't have it both ways (at least with one fact to back you up).
This is like me calling you a fool for not producing one fact that the world is flat, which you agree that it isn't.
Posted by: Fred on April 4, 2005 10:25 AMUnfortunately, UW is overcrowded with too many students who have been ushered there by their parents, and too few students who truly want to learn. Of course, that makes it nice for those of us who take (took) the initiative to seek out the profs for face-to-face time. I, for one, am happy with the current state of UW and the current state of community colleges.
Posted by: bmvaughn on April 4, 2005 10:28 AMUnfortunately, UW is overcrowded with too many students who have been ushered there by their parents, and too few students who truly want to learn. Of course, that makes it nice for those of us who take (took) the initiative to seek out the profs for face-to-face time. I, for one, am happy with the current state of UW and the current state of community colleges.
Posted by: bmvaughn on April 4, 2005 10:28 AMI went to Spokane Community College and found that the overwhelming number of students were there because they didn't know what to do after high school. Most didn't plan on attending a university.
When I got to Western Washington University, I found the Business and Economics school challenging, but curious. They wanted to prepare you for the "real world," but classes in business were closed on Fridays.
Posted by: Ken on April 4, 2005 11:23 AMSomeone once told me that going to college simply to get a job is the wrong idea.
The rationale for college is that a person with a college education will be able to perform the tasks assigned in any related profession better than a person who has not completed college.
Whether this is (still) true is debatable. I like the concept, but I think too many high school students are being pushed toward college, where another alternative might be better for them.
Someone else told me that too many college professors "have been educated beyond their intelligence." That one I believe.
College also helped me think critically. But if the student isn't made of stronger stuff, they will be tossed about by the Ward Churchills of the academy.
Posted by: dkpcowboy on April 4, 2005 12:12 PMThey call it Early Start or something.
Is this a creative way to teach high school while dipping into another pot of money at the state level?
Posted by: swatter on April 4, 2005 12:35 PMHmmm. I find it puzzling that you suggest the Times doesn't criticize education institutions. You apparently missed our numerous editorials lambasting the UW Medical School's Medicare and Medicaid fraud and calling for the med school dean to resign -- not to mention the previously disastrous state of the athletic department. Also, we've been very critical of the Seattle School Board and, in fact,have run an editorial urging better candidates to step forward for this year's election.
Best, kate
I thought I covered those examples with my "if possible" qualification. Some disasters are too big for the Seattle Times to ignore, even if the editors there want to.
Despite our continuing disagreement, I would like to thank Ms. Riley for her thoughtful reply. (And let me suggest that all of you read her fine column on the Kennewick man in today's paper.)
Posted by: Jim Miller on April 4, 2005 12:59 PMAll things considered, they could have covered things a little better in places, and there are a few leftover Marxist hippie types around teaching "How to be good Proletariat when the Revolution Comes 101" type stuff, but I only ran into one of those types in the English department in the time I was there, and for the most part the only politics you'll get exposed to there in most degree programs are in the flyers for the various far leftist groups on the bulletin boards or in the fishwrap they pass off as their school paper. All in all, I don't know that I'd want to hang out there for too long, and I was glad to be rid of the place when I finished up my AA, but it's not a bad option for those people who need it.
Posted by: Vexorg on April 4, 2005 12:59 PMWell I am and I certainly don't have much to show for my degrees (Computer Science MA & BS, Math BA, and Engineering Physics AS) other than 4 sheets of paper. They are used as a filter to get into big companies (and not so big companies) but really, my skills were honed independent of my degrees (everything I needed for my first full-time job I self-taught during highschool -- mainly because I was bored with my classes).
Considering that FDA had to un-certify several drugs recently, I don't trust any gov'nt certification be it drugs, medical doctors, lawyers, driver's license, marriage license or anything else certifiable (or highschool diploma for that matter). Even NASA can't get it right (I give you Challenger and Columbia for starters).
On the other hand, I loved Wired's La Vida Robot story of how the motivated high schoolers beat the pants off MIT students! So much for college degrees... (Yes they were public school students, but they didn't use public school money nor public school study time and they didn't even do their test run at their school -- since they didn't have a pool.)
Posted by: DannyHSDad on April 4, 2005 01:03 PMSeveral years ago, I turned down an opportunity to expedite a scholarship degree program at Evergreen because I knew they were nationally renowned for low standards based on their liberal approach to education. It would have required me to attend fewer credit hours of classes to obtain the same degree that I acheived at an institution with a far better reputation.
Like most of the colleges and universities in America, Evergreen is inclined to dispense the type of bu**$hit leftist propaganda that is common today. Evergreen is a shameless liberal/communist propaganda machine, and they are worse now than they were then.
Posted by: Amused by liberals on April 4, 2005 01:25 PMI find it particularly amusing that JDB says, "The Evergreen State College is consistantly ranked as one of the best liberal arts instituions [sic] in the country." and then says, "I, like most of you, suspect that to be a conservative blogger, you simply have to base your oppinions [sic] on unverifiable anecdotes. Name another college in the Pacific Northwest that has as good of a reputation."
JDB,
U.W., WWSU, Seattle University, Gonzaga, and on and on. Academically, Evergreen is at the very bottom of the list. As a "liberal" institution, who knows, and who cares? People should'nt be forced to cope with liberal indoctrination, but academic excellence.
Then JDB says, "It also helps to have no knowledge of the subject that you criticise and no facts, that way you have less of a chance of being constructive. I have talked to several people, and they all agree with this."
JDB, I'm sure that we can all recognize that you have no knowledge of the subject that you criticise and that your information comes from several people who agree with you.
Good job, JDB. Keep it up.
What a joke. According to US News and World Report's rankings, there are 217 liberal arts colleges in the US.
Does Evergreen show up in the top 110? No.
Does Evergreen show up in the Tier 3 list? No.
So, where's Evergreen? Tier 4, the bottom 50 or so.
Posted by: Lynxx Pherrett on April 4, 2005 02:58 PMI myself never went to a 2 year school--I managed to handle the challenges and pressures of a 4 year school just fine for a BA and an MA-- but I can see how 2 year schools are not really dumping or re-training grounds for the incompetent, but rather an alternative track into higher education for those who choose to use them as such.
Posted by: pseudotsuga on April 4, 2005 04:33 PM
One of America's Best Value Colleges
"America's Best Value Colleges" Random House/Princeton Review, March 30, 2004
Evergreen is included in this book of 77 colleges with outstanding academics, low-to-moderate tuition and fees, and generous financial aid packages. "We identified more than 30 factors by which we rated the colleges in three categories: academics, tuition, and tuition GPA: the sticker price minus average amount students receive in gift aid scholarships and grants. The 77 schools we chose for this book may not be the least costly colleges in America, but they are all great education deals. We highly recommend them to students and parents seeking the best academic bang for their buck."
A Program to Look For
"America's Best Colleges 2004," U.S. News & World Report, 2003
For first-year experiences, offering freshmen seminars and other programs that bring together small groups of students with faculty or staff on a regular basis.
For learning communities, where students typically take two or more linked courses together and get to know each other and their professors.
Most for Your Money: A Hot School of 2004
"Newsweek," Sept. 1, 2003
"With states increasingly focusing resources on small liberal-arts colleges in their systems, Evergreen has become a contender for those who might head off to pricey private schools. It has a small school's size, curriculum and educational chops."
A Top 100 Outstanding (But Underappreciated) College
"Harvard Schmarvard: Getting Beyond the Ivy League to the College That Is Best for You," Jay Mathews, 2003
"In keeping with the individualistic traditions of the Pacific Northwest, the 4,000 undergraduates are required to create their own course of study on this lovely campus."
Hipness Grade: A+
"The Hipster Handbook," Robert Lanham, 2002
Evergreen "is the kind of school where you earn high marks just for being a Hipster. Calvin Johnson is an alumnus of Evergreen. He is also the founder of K Records, whose slogan is 'Exploding the teenage underground into passionate revolt against the corporate ogre since 1982.' Bruce Pavitt, who founded SubPop records and coined the term 'grunge,' also went to Evergreen."
One of the 40 Best College Towns
"Outside," Sept. 2003
"Students are free to design their own academic pathways, and innovative courses like snow ecology combine a mix of ecology, technical mountaineering, and wilderness first-response training."
A College That Changes Lives
"Colleges That Change Lives: 40 Schools You Should Know About Even If You're A Straight-A Student," Loren Pope, 1996, 2000
"The Evergreen State College offers the most unusual undergraduate experience in the Northwest, or in any public institution anywhere. Taxpayers everywhere should demand colleges like this one that changes their children's lives. For a public institution it is more than unusual, it is unique, because values are as important as learning and public service is strongly encouraged."
Posted by: JDB on April 4, 2005 10:41 PMThe idea that students can create their own degree program is one of the biggest problems of that university. Evergreen is the only university I know where you really could major in underwater basket weaving! Just take a few art courses, a few oceanography courses and you're set!
Posted by: Greg J. on April 5, 2005 01:21 AM