March 18, 2005
Kennedy Warns Yelm Cult Of U.S. Fascists
Delivering a speech to Ramtha cult devotees in Yelm, Washington last week, Bush-bashing enviro Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. said the current administration veers dangerously close to fascism. The Olympian reported:
"The White House press corps has become stenographers for this administration," the environmental lawyer said. And the White House administration itself borders on fascism, he said. "Oppression is a continuum and we need to recognize that continuum if we're going to protect our democracy," Kennedy said. "Germany was a democracy that elected Hitler. Italy elected Mussolini."
Ah well. As Knute Berger notes in the current Seattle Weekly (scroll to bottom), this is the same guy who told a Seattle audience in January that, "Eighty percent of Republicans are just Democrats that don't know what's going on."
Posted by Matt Rosenberg at March 18, 2005
11:34 AM | Email This
Isn't it strange how the leftists continue to believe that the fascists and Nazis weren't also leftists?
As for the quip about Republicans who don't know what's going on, I suppose the quipper meant that 80% of Republicans are ignorant, otherwise they would be Democrats. That's a typically egotistic, if not narcissistic leftist opinion.
Try this quip -- "independents" are Democrats who are ashamed to admit it.
2. RFK, Jr.....many homes,no...mansions and "compounds", that cost hundreds of thousands to heat and cool. Gulfstream [G-5 private jet], yachts, watercraft, SUVs, limos...........Ok....Now He's going to tell us how to use less energy!! [hehe] "All animals are equal, but GD Democrats who's daddy made illegal money running booze is just a little more equal than others! Animal Farm]
3. North Korea: 'Human scum' Bolton is 'worst' UN envoy [Democrats and North Korea again in agreement. Fidel also agrees!!]
4. Kennedy, as wrong as he is, has a good point about the press and this administration.
When was the last time one of the MSM asked a tough question of this administration and insisted on a tough answer?
More and more, it seems that the "best" reporters are the ones that get the latest White House press release back to the office first.
PR passes for genuine news much more often than I like.
5. Who'd have ever thought that John jr. would go down in history as the smartest Kennedy of this generation -- if only for knowing how to keep his mouth shut -- (even if he couldn't fly a plane)? But, it looks like the rest of them are determined to hand him that honor.
6. Right -- and Fraudoire was elected gov of WA in a model election - give me a break crap head
7. You're absolutely right barchester. Why did all the good ones have to die? If aliens came down from outspace today they'd wonder how the Kennedy's could have ever been "Camelot." Oh well, at least we still have the Governator.
Robert Kennedy, you should study your history before you open your mouth and insert your foot so far down your throat that it comes out the other end.
Hitler was never elected by the German people. He managed to gain power through manipulation of the political process and through intimidation.
He is nothing more than a limo lib who loves wind power, as long as it does not spoil his view from Hyannisport. If it does, than don't build it there, build it somewhere else. He is such a hypocritical self serving moron that it makes me ashamed to admit that we are both Irish.
80% of all Republicans are just Demos who don't know what is going on???? What a presumptuous jerk he is.
Robert -- just go away...We are tired of anything that any one in your family has to say. You and your buffunic uncle need to just fade away into the history of the failed policies of a tired idiology.
I noticed no one addressed Kennedy's observations about the Bush administration. Instead, I read comments irrelevant to the issue - including those from the author of the original post.
Same old same old.
"When was the last time one of the MSM asked a tough question of this administration and insisted on a tough answer?"
Funny, that's exactly what I think of Seattle/Washington State MSM and both the Gregoire and Sims Administrations!!
Why are people noting the similarities between fascicm and the Bush regime? Because the desires of corporate contributors are legislated into existence even when they conflict with the interests of the citizenry whom the government is supposed to be representing, but doesn't. The most flagrant recent example is the way our soldiers in Iraq, who are fighting for this country, are treated in the recently passed Republican Bankruptcy Bill. When the government and business interests merge and act in a way that is deleterious to the citizens but beneficial to the corporations, why then you have a government that's behaving like a fascist government. Just like the Bush administration. If they don't like being called fascists , they should stop behaving like fascists. But I don't think that's going to happen.
By the way, Tom Delay is toast. Couldn't happen to a more deserving man.
Reporting by press release is nothing new, and nothing limited to White House reporters. They'd be doing the same for a President Kerry. To get all upset now in that one particular context sounds a bit hypocritical and whiny.
(But it does help divert the discussion from the inane stupidity uttered by Prince Robbie, doesn't it?)
The reason we don't dignify Kennedy's comments about the Bush Administration is that they are ludicrous and show a complete lack of historical perspective and understanding.
So the Bush Administration are Nazis, or like the Nazis? Hmmm...clarify for me...so is this 1933, or 1937? The concentration camps are....where? People are being herded onto train cars...when?
I visited both Auschwitz and Birkenau last April on a trip to Krakow, Poland. I would be happy to email some of the photos I took to you - especially the room full of woman's hair harvested from the gassed bodies to be used in the German Textile industry.
From that day forward I've never compared anyone nor any group of people to Hitler and the National Socialist Party of Germany. They were an evil unlike any other.
Care to comment?
If you want to call the Bush Administration fascists, fine. You're wrong, but that's your right.
Comparing them to Hitler, though? That's beyond the pale. Please see my comment above.
15. Headless Lucy, Nazis: National SOCIALISTS.Get it? SOCIALISTS!! Today the socialists like to call themselves "Progressive Democrats". Lucy, Do you get it now??
16. "Ramtha" is just a scam of J.Z. Knight. Anyone who deliberately appears before her devotees should be committed to a mental institute for the terminally stupid and gullible. Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. should be locked up for his own protection.
17. Hiding your head in the sand and trying to deflect the issue to irrelevancies is not going to help you in 2006. Who this administration really represents is becoming more obvious as every day unfolds.
2006 won't matter to Tom Delay, though, because he's going to be indighted for being a crook.He'll be long gone. Good thing he's got a reliable trade to fall back on.
18. You beat me to it Mike,
Solely, by virtue of his connection to the Ramtha School of Enlightenment his comments have to be dismissed. Leftist? Whatever. He's lost it and shouldn't be taken seriously.
That's "indicted," dear.
Thanks, Bostonian. You're right. Delay is going to be indicted for being a crook, not, "indighted."
Another thing. Why does Tom Delay think he "is" the federal government? Where does it say that in the constitution? That sounds to me like a fascist statement.
21. Headless Lucy, I understand you post from a public school email address. Does spelling count?
22. I know little about Kennedy except that he leans left and is a pro-enviromentalist. There is of course nothing wrong with this. It is unfortunate though that Mr. Kennedy has sought an audience with this strange group of folks.
23. If anyone heard Julia Patterson on Carlson Thursday, you heard her talk about the "larger issue" of the "devisive/negative speech" on talk radio. I just have one question for Councilwoman Patterson. Where doesn Kennedy describing the Bush Administration "dangerously close to fascism",(or facism if you're a WA democrat) and comparing the election of Bush to the election of Hitler fall into the mix?
You keep avoiding the questions I raise. Are you suffering from existential angst? Your perseveration on the spelling issue is reminding me of the often twit-like behaviour of Dick Cavett interviewing Malcolm Muggeridge.
And I'm not going to back away from that position even one scintilla!
The MSM did nothing but hammer Bush and go easy or favorable on Kerry this last election cycle.
The Columbia school of journalism did a study that comfirmed it, that there was 3x the negative coverage of Bush vs. Kerry.
The CBS document fiasco show the lengths they'll go to.
And what of Jeff Gannon, who was outed (as being gay) and smeared because he asked a so-called "friendly" question at a press conference (so much for the tolerant & diverse left).
Do a lexius-nexus search and you'll see the ratio.
Where have you been hiding the past year?
Think you're blowing smoke.
26. We are a representative republic NOT a socilest democracy as the dem's would like to make it.
27. Headless Lucy sure seems to have a one track fixation with Tom Delay and a bit unhinged & frothing at the mouth...is she (or he) in need of counseling?
I thought we had a represetative republic style of government too. Then I came out here and learned of the iniative process.
Best thing the Republicans can do about the Gannon/Guckert fiasco is to ignore it and pretend it never happened.
29. And we should care what ANY Kennedy says because...?
What about HL's allegation that the Republican Bankruptcy Bill unfairly damages our soldiers and is therefore fascist because it sides with corporate interests over the citizens interests. This is the crux of the argument that the Bush administration is fascist. So, whatcha got to say for yourselves? Don't you support our troops?
I don't think that you guys understand that corporate "private property" claims do not supercede the public interest. This administration always sides with corporate interests over the people. That's what fascism is! You could look it up!
Uh, "s-choir": you've got the exact same IP address as "headless lucy" - 18.104.22.168.
One identity per poster, please.
32. So what? What makes you think we're the same person. But, really, how many times have I heard conservatives crowing about how they support our troops and anyone who says anything against the war is a traitor and is not supporting our troops,AND, the question still lies on the table , unanswered. How can you support this administration when they have done something that clearly damages our soldiers with the recent Bankruptcy Bill? Answer the question. If you won't I can only assume that you agree with the bill and you don't support our troops.
33. How can you say that the recent Bankruptcy Bill affects the troops? Where is your proof? Is it just your thoughts. There are a lot of bad information that goes out. Yes troops are not paid a lot. THink of it volunteers putting their life on the line for you and you complain about a Bankruptcy bill that affects those who do not honor their debts. Personally I am close to bankruptcy at times. My wife did not work for over 6 monthes last year. I barely make it pay check to paycheck. And there is a good chance I will get laid off in the next year due to Democratic Business regulations. IT is a struggle. Yet I do not consider Bankruptcy as an option I want to use. I owe the money I must pay it back. Personal Responsibility is the name of the game. Yes it should be harder to file for bankruptcy. Yes there are cases where it is an option. But too many people spend beyond their means and can not make it. Then just before filing for bankruptcy they max out the credit cards and make the material disappear so they can steal yes steal from the business that sold them the product. The business does not get paid so he either lays off people. Charge more for the product to those who do pay them. Or takes it out of his profits that maybe a loss instead of a profit. The reason you are against the bancruptcy bill is because you as a democrat do not want take responsibiity for your actions. Can you not understand your word and integrity is the only thing that differentiates between good and evil. People use the system. Whether this is a good bill or not sure If I have to file for bancruptcy which I plan never to do I will have to jump through a few more hoops. A person has to take responsibility for their actions. Just like the election. IT is human error causing all the problems. OK Who is responsible? What corrections have you taken? When you do spin, lie or falsify records. Where is the personal responsibility? Let me tell you I made a lot of mistakes when I was in the Navy and everytime I came clean. Yes I had to pay the piper but at least I did not try to cover up what I did. Nor did I point fingers at someone else. I discussed the problem informed everyone who needed to know and forced the issue to their attention. I made the mistake and had to take the punishment. Those who were hidding the problem lost there job. I kept my job and gained respect for my integrity. Can you claim the same about King County?
Facist are of the right and conservative. Facisim is the sin of the right just as communism is the sin of the left. National Socialist are no more Socialist than Christian Democrats are Democrats. Franco, Mussolini and Hitler were not out to build the great workers paradise. They all wanted to bring their people back to a greater, purer time of nobility. They all glorified the military, family and order. And they all hunted down actual socialists/communist and killed them. This is why people like Henry Ford and Charles Lindberg love Hitler.
But if that is the basis of your arguement, Stalin must have been a Republican, Since it was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
It is probably would be good for everyone if we lost the facist/Hitler rhetoric for the right, just as if we lost the communist/Stalin rhetoric for the left in this country. But I'm not going to hold my breath, nor am I going to be terribly upset the next time someone calls me a commie/fag/hippie.
I am currious, though, if RFK had talked to any other religious group, would they be referred to as a cult on this site? Personally, I think JZ is a scam, but I think the same of Pat Robinson and Jerry Falwell...., I have problems with any person who lives well on religion. I will note that JZ's predictions are as good as Pat's or any other right wing Christian (ever read The Late Great Planet Earth? Great hoot that, we should all have been dead over ten years ago).
Just a few comments.
Can you imagine RFK and Susan Estridge on the same talk show? Those voices!
HL, do you propose that we pay our military men and women the same as you in the Seattle School District? Or are you more deserving?
36. I'm glad Headless Lucy posts from a public school, further reinforcing my choice to homeschool my children.
The signature, Headless Lucy, led us all to believe that she was a she, but I'm thinking she is a he or isn't quite sure her/himself which he/she is.
WHy dont you read the history books. Do you know what the initials NAZI stand for "National Socialist German Workers' Party" So why do you claim that the right are nazi's. It is another socialist group that wanted to control everyone around them. PLease keep to the facts. I am a conservative that believes in smaller government and personal reponsibility. I am not a racist but because I believe that you are responsible for your own condition I am considered a racist.
I seek answers and investigate issues. Yes I am opinionated but I am tired of being treated as though I am an idiot. I do my best because I am human I do make mistakes. But Never do I close my ears to ideas that make sense. But I also will not listen to outright lies. If you have proof show it and not some left wing website where you can say things without evidence. Give me a few days and I will research and come back with my view. But I do not stand for being called a Nazi by anyone. That is an insult. You may be proud of hating america. Because the communist party of the 30's and 40's was just that. Cause hate and discontent. To divide this country from common cause. Until we started giving supplies to Stalin they where causing lots of problems. Just as the Chinese Communists today stealing technology and sending it home so did the Russian Communists in the 50's, 60's, and 70's. Most inventions comes from the innovations developed by US. The russians took our technology and did some improvements but look at the cost to the people. Here you have freedom. You have choices. Communist countries you dont have that unless born to the correct family or have the correct attitude. Individual achievement was not allowed. IT was group achievment. WHere human nature took place. Laziness is a human nature. Do the minimium because I can not change what I am. If you live by that motto of course you will be ignorant and know nothing. SOcialism is a failed experiment that is being used today in the US. Goverment can not fix all human ills. Government is not GOD. So why is it your GOD?
Jane Fonda: Kerry Suffered From 'Wimp' Image
In more bad news for Sen. John Kerry, "Hanoi" Jane Fonda is once again stepping into the media spotlight, promoting her new book, "My Life So Far," and explaining that Kerry lost the election because he came across as "a wimp" and a "girlie man." Now, Jane assures us that John "Fing" Kerry is every bit as tough as the POWs who she "visited" in Viet Nam. "They didn't look so tough!", said the famous Ms. Fonda!! "They were kind of skinny, and they didn't dress well!" noted Jane.
BDL States that "Facist are of the right and conservative. Facisim is the sin of the right just as communism is the sin of the left. National Socialist are no more Socialist than Christian Democrats are Democrats"
What a load. The Nazi's were to the right on traditional racial and ethnic purity issues, but to the left on everything else. They were after all socialists. Hitler and Stalin both embraced Centralized planning and made it a core principle underpinning each of their economies. Though each adopted their own particular flavor.
Fascism's sin is the practice of raw unchecked racism, Socialism's sin in the complete subjugation of it populace. Both are totalitarian by nature and neither reflects the views of either the Democrats or Republican parties today in America.
I can't remember when a mainstream Republican leader branded a Democrat politician or policy as anything worse than LIBERAL. When if the truth were told, Liberal was too soft word, Socialist fit better. However, more and more I hear Democrats accusing Republicans of being Nazi's.
Sounds like the desparate cry from a party soon to be lost in the sands of time.
Ever heard of the Whig's...........
40. JDB, "From Each.......To Each". Marx, and Hillary. Both "understand" how to "redistribute" other's wealth for the good of the state.
Did you read my post? I did not call you a Nazi, in fact I did not refer to you at all. My conclusion was that this sort of language should be excised from our debates on both sides, although I am not holding my breath.
I have not called you a racist either. Why do you even bring this up?
Why do you say I hate America? Just because we disagree, that doesn't mean either one of us hates our country. The United States has its flaws, And goodness knows I have troubles with the powers that be, but that hardly means I hate my country. Nor do I assume that you hate this country. It would be a shame if you do.
Thank you for the observation that Government is not God. Can you point to one person in the history of humanity has said it is? Government is formed through a compact of the people who give up certain rights to allow for a greater good. I would suggest that you read Locke, Hume and Rouseau (forgive my French, I might have spelt Rouseau wrong), then you would better understand the basis of our form of liberal democracy. You would also understand that it is foolish to refer to anything in the US as socialistic.
Your view of history is interesting. I'm guessing you have been reading old John Birch literature? You might want to broaden your reading list in general. I would be happy to give you several sources if you wish.
Thank you for your response. I am impressed that I inspired so much from you. However, I would highly suggest that you actually read my post next time before responding.
Headless - Why did this administration get voted back in if the majority of the people feel it does not represent them? I for one am glad of the new bancrupcy bill, though I missed the part of the bill that is against our troops. What part of it is that?
David A - what an interesting concept: personal responsibility! I thought that died in the 60s!
s-choir/HL: "I don't think that you guys understand that corporate "private property" claims do not supercede the public interest." Where did you get this from? A corporation is an entity that has rights. The property or assets of a corporation are not up for grabs by the public whim. You do not seem to understand that individuals humans own corporations, whether it is union investments, personal 401Ks, or direct investment. This property cannot be confiscated just because someone feels they can do something better with it than the owners.
"... Government is not God. Can you point to one person in the history of humanity has said it is?"
The Caesar's weren't far away, nor were a whole pile of pre-1800's governments. If I could translate any of the Arabic languages, I suspect I could provide you with contemporary quotes as well from both the Shia & the Wahabis. Comments about Al Sadr in particular.
One reason 'under God' is distinctly different than 'by God'.
44. Gee--how nice to find out that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. knows my mind better than I do.
The backruptcy law revisions made it tougher to declare insolvency only for those who either fraudulently use the system or who have the means but try to hide behind loopholes.
I thought people like you wanted those with means to be responsible and not take advantage of loopholes. No one who is truly in need is denied backruptcy protection. Read up on what the bill means before you spout the party rhetoric.
The FBI estimates that roughly ten percent of bankruptcy filings have some amount of fraud in them, usually outright lying and concealment about the amount of assets and income that a debtor has to pay his creditors. To attack this problem, the bill creates new safeguards to make it easier to sniff out fraud.
Last year there were 1.5 million consumer bankruptcies in America. In about 150,000 of those cases bankrupts were just lying about their assets. A debtor who fails to disclose his boat, Porsche, Corvette, and Ford Excursion, and values his home at $120,000 less than he paid for it — to mention one case investigated by the Department of Justice — is not a “family in distress” as most of us think of the phrase.
Labeling people racists, Fascists, Nazis or Communists when they are clearly not either is just proof of an inability to present a cogent argument. Anyone making wild smears of that sort should be immediately ignored, for they are either nuts, stupid, or demagoguing.
And why people believe that the wild fabric of ideologies held by people can be shoehorned into a one dimensional illustration (left to right) is completely beyond me.
47. Dems are suffering from a major power outage. Everyone to them looks like facists, that is if they even know what it means. If they did know what it meant, I doubt they would be so eager to talk about it.
RFK, jr., s-choir and headless all seem to follow common misuse of the word 'fascist' by leftists. They get it exactly backwards.
Look it up, s-choir!
1. often Fascism
a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
b. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.
Says nothing whatever about backing corporate interests over citizens. In fact corporate interests fall under stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression, etc. Fascism is essentially the same as socialism (look it up!) except that instead of collective ownership of productive capacity, producers and citizens are allowed to own property but the central authority stringently controls what the 'owners' can and cannot do with it. That's precisely the oppression Kennedy advocates.
Ironic, isn't it?
Another Kennedy gone bad ! Judging by the content of his speech he would have fit in at Evergreen State College also. The loonies of the Yelm cult were listening, so I am wondering why this event received this kind of coverage. It's like having PETA on any radio talk show - boring !
Fascists can be of the left or the right, so thats one piece of propaganda that is false - the brown shirts spread it themselves. Headless Lucy likes this kind of fascist claptrap from the left - therefore HL is a hypocrite ! Yes, this Kennedy sounds like a fascist...
KS: Hate to tell you this, you would probably fit in at Evergreen too. Much more diverse than you think.
However, I actually agree with your second paragraph. And I ment to say that Larry got it right too.
Nazi, Facist, Communist, Socialist are all overheated rhetoric in this country.
Headless Lucy, s-choir. Have you ever read Ann Coulter's book "Treason". If you had you would have found that support for every Nazi, Fascist, Communist, and Socialist regime America has been in conflict with in the last century came from the Democratic party. How can you reconcile yourselves to supporting the creators of the KKK, the supporters of slavery, or the suppressors of civil rights. Have you ever read Rev. Wayne Perryman's book "Unfounded Loyalty". If you feel reparations are due descendants of slaves in this country? Then I am sure you agree with it. Here is a link to his article.
I'm sure you support prosecution of corporate criminals right, this litmus test indicates your leaning towards republican. As a teacher, tell your union you don't support them telling you you have no choice but to donate money to a Republican, wrong, you are forced to donate money to something you don't believe in as long as you are a Republican. I'm sure you don't support Racism. Of course that means you definitely have Republican thoughts, shame shame. Don't you get it, you've been lied to and you swallowed it hook line and sinker. You have been made pawns and scapegoats. Is the Republican party perfect? No, not by a long shot. Still, they enact into law the things the Democrats profess but fought against when it was really important. Not budget problems, the R's took on the really deep and binding issues of national and international ethics and morality problems. If the D's had been anywhere near as successful we would probably have a world without war right now, especially if they had put aside partisanship as the R's attempted in their major, ground breaking legislative attempts.
If you want to know why the R's on this site are so disillusioned and sometimes so vehemently opposed to the D's here, it's cause you perpetuate the lie. Few of you use real facts. You propagate the lie from site to site. On this site I heard of the 100,000 dead in Iraq. The funny thing is it’s foreign invaders killing over 70,000 of the Iraqis so far, and the US is trying to stop the invaders from continuing the bombings and assassinations which are the leading cause of the deaths. No matter how you stack the facts. We are the good guys. You really should get the facts before you blather on and on. There are few D's on this site who actually do use facts in their arguments. Neither of you do. Because of that you have become a laughing stock on this site. Teachers? you need to learn before you can teach. Prove me wrong. Prove to me with clear facts I am wrong by showing me that Ann Coulter and Wayne Perryman lied. Prove to me that the Iraq war and the reasons behind it was a lie. Prove to me that your union doesn’t force you to donate by refusing to pay that part of your dues and demanding the refund the WEA is supposed to return to the teachers from the 1998 court ruling.
There is so much more I can stipulate, each capable of rocking your belief to its core if you actually made the attempt yet you will sit there like mindless couch potatoes and do nothing, take the lie, and breed dissent. Those D’s who have a brain and are trying to make things better by working inside their part, who can postulate on fact and truth. More power to you. Until a better party comes along for me to join, better as in better for personal freedom and the stability of our country, until then I am a conservative and a Republican.
Unkl Witz, Nelson, and JDB. We rarely agree but thanks for at least giving me facts and opinions of intelligence. The more I dig the more convinced I am of which side I am and should be on. More power to you in bettering your party. I feel your pain in that you have Headless Lucy and s-choir as your allies. Then again I have a couple raucous mouths on mine don’t I.
After being complemented, I hate to disagree, but it is what I do well.
First of all, please read some criticisms of Coulter. She is about as credible as Ward Churchill. They both write at the same level.
That being said, Roosevelt never supported Hitler. The Country on the whole was isolationist, and those who supported Hitler in this country, Henry Ford, Charles Lindberg, were Republicans.
Nixon open up to China, set up the Apollo Soyuz meeting. I'm sure there are other examples.
Coulter is everything that their is wrong with politics today. All attack and no care for the facts. Pure BS, in the tradition of Harry Frankfurt's "On BS." A good read. (The main differnece between lieing and BS, if you lie, you at least think you know the truth, if its BS, you don't care what the truth is).
Again, there are plenty of solid criticisms on the web of Coulter's works, and a detail of the bitter person that she is. There are also some wonderfully bitchy and funny ones too. Plus a few that are just foaming at their mouths..., Coulter does that to people. Of course, that is what she wants.
I can't imagine that I could get you to read some liberal sources, but if you want less insane republican/right wing sources, I suggest Oppinion Journal (The Wall Street Journals online free opinion service) or Nationl Review Online (NRO). Want to be a little risque for the right, try Andrew Sullivan. I have problems with all of these, and many of their contribs, but they at least make an effort to be serious.
53. By golly you stick to your guns Lucy. That's what I’ve come to appreciate in liberals, wholehearted obdurate adherence to utter stupidity.
54. And that is what we expect of conservatives, insults and no facts.
56. you are the epitomy of the pot calling the kettle black, JDB. Conservatives tell the facts more often than you want to believe - your ilk just doesn't like the facts that don't fit the leftist agenda, which often distorts facts and is a victim of idol worship. The insults ? Their way to kick leftists in the ars, hit them with the real facts and straighten out their misconceptions. Also watching out for the people that they potentially could infect with their liberalism propaganda.
57. With respect CandrewB, to be quiet, ignore things in the hope they'll go away is precisely what the Dems hope we'll do and expect of Republicans.
They're used to us being nice & rolling over rather than fighting back.
It's about time we got some backbone & respond back.
Make them answer questions, prove assertions and back things up. Expose some of the things they say or do that they've gotten a pass on for a long time.
They're not used to having to do this or facing opposition, new experience for them..whereas Conservatives have been having to do this for years.
Then that means you have read neither of their books. Shame, you should have done your homework. The support for the Nazi's came from the isolationists insistance on doing nothing and activism from the communist/socialist parties. These parties worked together as Germany and Russia initially had joined forces at the start of the war. And the Russian and German spys, traitors, and political agents used either worked for or belonged to the democratic party. Ann Coulter's work and writing style may be sensationalized but her basic investigative research is brilliant. Although, I must agree, you are correct in that she deliberately pushes hot buttons with her facts. Want a real eye opener in recent history. Who have all the recent spys and traitors within the last 20 years worked for? China, and what party did they donate to or belong to, the Democrats. Ouch, blinding light in this corner. You must have seen it in the MSM. California democrat Congressman caught in an affair with a chinese spy/double agent, chinese spys gaining military secrets from Boeing at the Clinton white house request, a nuclear research center called Sandia Labs losing secret information ultimately leading to a chinese scientist who only got off the charge of espionage due to a technicality created by the Reno investigation. Guess who it turned out paid his legal bills. A chinese front company who donated heavily to the Clinton administration.
You want to discuss Nixon as well, he made an initial attempt along the lines of how Reagan later successfully outmaneuvered the USSR. Nixon realized (from his memoirs) that China had two things we needed; commerce which could lead to capitalism undermining communism (which has happened to some extent), and diverting the chinese attention while we dealt with the USSR our greater enemy. He was successful and correct on both accounts. Nixon also had the vision to attempt peace with the USSR through the exploration of space.
Thanks for this witty reparte. I love discussing facts and truths. As long as we don't call each other names I appreciate you three inspiring me to elevate my level of reasoning. Yes, I am still investigating the exact wording of some issues Unkl spoke of. But hey, I don't know everything. chuckle
Which party was so fond of calling the opposition Nazi's and Bush akin to Hitler (and numerous other references in that vein)...Democrats & 527's of the Moveon.org!
Insults & no facts... sounds like some of the grief my 11 year old 6th grader had to endure. He was called a Nazi, shoved up against the wall (So.."you're a Republican!" the kid snarled to him) and was told Bush had 5 DUI's and was awol fron the National Guard, and that Republicans think Sponge Bob is gay, War was for oil and so on..etc...plus he was disenfranchised in the school mock election to boot (too bad he couldn't vote in KC). My second grade daughter was called a "loser" by a third grader. Makes you wonder about these kids & their parents and where they get their information.
Our car was vandalized twice, yard signs stolen and we live a short distance from the state capital in Olympia. My son still gets grief at school from the so-called tolerant & diverse Liberal Democrats. We also have to endure Berendt and Gregoire going to our church (catholic) while they support "choice".
When I've sent e-mails to the state democratic party disagreeing with some of their statements, I've gotten nasty, pithy ..insulting replies (but they never put forth a rebuttal that specifically adresses any of my points..in other words, insults but no facts!
Check out Victor Davis HAnson's article on National Review Online.."Little Eichmann's and Digital Brownshirts" which gives fuller detail to all this Bush/Hitler.... America/Nazi Germany nonsense by the Left these days & how truly dangerous this careless rhetoric can be.
Not only am I conservative, but I'm also of German heritage & resent all this "Nazi" business to no end. I once met a actual Holocaust survivor years ago & all this name calling & casual use of Nazi Germany is a insult to what he (and all survivors, and those who perished) went through.
It disgusts me the Democrats have no shame in decending to this level. Then they lecture the rest of us about "diversity" & "tolerance" and wonder why they are losing votes.
I'll Take Left-Wing-Paranoia Potpourri for 100, Alex:
"Was 9/11 'blowback' for American misdeeds abroad? Obviously, shouted Noam Chomsky, Susan Sontag, and many like-minded others. The U.S. war in Afghanistan? An imperialist adventure, most declared. Such responses have led (Michael) Walzer,coeditor of the socialist journal Dissent [to question the Left and its] 'barely concealed glee that the imperial state had finally gotten what it deserved.'
"The Left long ago 'lost its bearings ... from the Vietnam years forward, from the time of "Amerika," Viet Cong flags, and breathless trips to North Vietnam ... That's why many leftists had such difficulty responding emotionally to the attacks of September 11 or joining in the expressions of solidarity that followed' - and why they backed ineffective proposals such as turning the problem over to the United Nations.
"Clinging to a 'ragtag Marxism.' many of Walzer's ideological confreres are blind to the immense power of religion. "Whenever writers on the lift say that the "root cause" of terror is global inequality or human poverty, the assertion is in fact a denial that religious motives really count.' Minimizing the importance of Islamic radicalism, many have simply assumed that 'any group that attacks the imperial power must be a representative of the oppressed, and its agenda must be the agenda of the Left.'
"Opting for the 'moral purism of blaming America first,' many leftists cannot bring themselves to criticize the 'oppressed' elsewhere. Yet
even the oppressed are morally obliged 'not to murder innocent people, not to make terrorism their politics.'" - Wilson Quarterly, Summer 2002
Most national-security Democrats (Biden, Bayh, Edwards, Richardson, Hillary Clinton) believe that the Party’s problems on the issue go deeper than marketing. They agree that the Party should be more open to the idea of military action, and even preëmption; and although they did not agree about the timing of the Iraq war and the manner in which Bush launched it, they believe that the stated rationale—Saddam’s brutality and his flouting of United Nations resolutions—was ideologically and morally sound. They say that the absence of weapons of mass destruction was more a failure of intelligence than a matter of outright deception by the Administration; and although they do not share the neoconservatives’ enthusiastic belief in the transformative power of military force, they accept the possibility that the invasion of Iraq might lead to the establishment of democratic institutions there.
In addition, national-security Democrats try to distance themselves from the Party’s post-Vietnam ambivalence about the projection of American power. In other words, they are men and women who want to reach back to an age of Democratic resoluteness, embodied by Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry Truman, and John F. Kennedy. Their mission may have been complicated earlier this year by Howard Dean’s victory in the race for the chairmanship of the Democratic National Committee, although Dean, the most stridently antiwar of the major candidates in 2004, has promised to suppress the urge to comment on foreign policy.
Biden could find little to say about Dean, other than this: “No goddam chairman’s ever made a difference in the history of the Democratic Party.” His colleague Joseph Lieberman, who is perhaps the most conservative member of the Democratic caucus, said, “Dean was wrong on the war and what he was talking about was bad for the country. We’ll see what he does as chairman. If he devotes his energies to building a party at the base, as he talked about doing, good for him. If he continues to be a prominent spokesman on defense policy, I would regret it.” ... (Lieberman) is unapologetic about his defense of Bush’s Iraq policy, saying, “Bottom line, I think Bush has it right.” When I asked if he was becoming a neoconservative, Lieberman smiled and said, “No, but some of my best friends are neocons.”
For a Democrat who wants to cultivate an image of toughness on national security, the challenge is to adopt positions that, in some cases, are closer to those of Paul Wolfowitz than to those of Edward Kennedy while remaining loyal to the Party. This has become more difficult with the news from the Middle East over the past two months, which raises the possibility that the Bush Administration’s core argument—that the antidote to Islamic-fundamentalist terrorism is democracy—might turn out to be something more than utopian theory.
It is far too early to claim that the Middle East is moving irreversibly toward tranquillity and freedom. Fifteen hundred American soldiers have been killed, and thousands more have been wounded; the insurgency within Iraq—the assassinations, the car bombings, the hostage-taking—has continued unabated. But, at the same time, something appears to have been shaken loose. The Iraqi election in late January; the election in the Palestinian territories and the rekindling of the Israeli-Palestinian peace process; the protests of the Lebanese against their Syrian occupiers; and the move by the Egyptian President, Hosni Mubarak, toward more direct elections have given the Bush Administration—and the neoconservatives who contribute much of its expansive ideology—its first good news in quite a while. Some of these events cannot plausibly be attributed to Bush. “This is a very lucky President,” Biden said. “Why did Arafat die on his watch? I mean, give me a break.”
Biden and other Democrats agreed, though, that their party should not appear stingy when the news favors Bush. “The Democrats need to stand with the President when he’s right,” Bill Richardson told me. “His emphasis on being more pro-democracy in the Middle East seems to have galvanized some movement. The Democrats need to establish their credentials on national security, and we get hurt by reflexive negativism.” ...
Biden says he is reminded of the Party’s difficult relationship with Ronald Reagan. “Everybody knew ‘Reagan is dangerous,’ remember? He talked about freedom, so what do we do? We say it’s a bad speech, dangerous speech.” Biden was referring to a 1982 speech delivered by Reagan to the British Parliament, in which he spoke of the power of democracy. Today, the Democrats are “making the same mistakes again,” Biden said.
From "THE UNBRANDING" by JEFFREY GOLDBERG: "Can the Democrats make themselves look tough?" The New Yorker, 21 March 2005
In one of Lenny Bruce's classic routines an agitated Lyndon Johnson—freshly seated in the White House, and in the privacy of the Oval Office—is sweatin', swearin', and cussin' as he tries to say "Ni-Ni-Ni … Ni-groh" but instead keeps returning to a more familiar and vulgar word. Now, at the urging of the UC Berkeley cognitive linguist George Lakoff, liberal America's guru of the moment, progressive Democrats are practicing to get their own reluctant mouths around some magical new vocabulary, in the hope of surviving and eventually overcoming the age of Bush. ...
Much more than an offering of serious political strategy, (Lakoff's book) is a feel-good self-help book for a stratum of despairing liberals who just can't believe how their commonsense message has been misunderstood by the eternally deceived masses. Liberal values are American values, they say, but somehow Americans just keep getting tricked ...into thinking and voting against their own interests.
So what's an earnest, honest liberal to do when nobody wants to hear the truth? Why not turn to personal therapy disguised as politics, psychobabble as electoral strategy? Lakoff, revealingly, provides nary a word on reshaping the Democratic Party itself, blunting the influence of corporate cash, eliminating the stranglehold on the party and its candidates by discredited but omni-powerful consultants, reversing its estrangement from the white working class, finding some decent candidates, or just about anything else that might require actual strategic thinking ... (T)he Democratic liberal and activist crust does indeed seem ever more in denial about the depth of its defeat, about its detachment from what it claims as its "traditional base," and about its apparent willingness to pursue little more than a self-referential, self-indulgent political aesthetic. It's much easier nowadays to fancy yourself a member of a persecuted minority, bravely shielding the flickering flame of enlightenment from the increasing Christo-Republican darkness, than it is to figure out how you're actually going to win an election or, God forbid, organize a union. ...
(T)he liberal left (is) the new incarnation of the John Birch Society, the black-clad beneficiaries of studio residuals and university tenure -- often banking family salaries deep into six figures (or much, much more), their offspring booked into $20,000-a-year prep schools -- (posing) as the last-standing defenders of enlightenment and democracy. At one liberal party last year ... where Aaron Sorking and Rob Reiner clinked glasses with Laurie and Larry David, the Chanel-clad hostess (a very wealthy industrialist) mounted her staircase and, speaking to the all-Democratic crowd, vowed to dedicate her energies to fighting George W. Bush. To thunderous applause she announced, "We are tired of being disenfranchised!"
In the weeks following the election, as these same liberals were convincing themselves that another dark conspiracy had rigged the vote, the after-dinner chatter sometimes veered toward fleeing to Canada (from Jesusland). Few are the Democratic activists who simply accept the unavoidable fact that they lost, that George W. Bush fairly and, um, squarely beat the stuffing out of them. Instead liberal -- and especially progressive -- rhetoric is increasingly laced with paranoia. A month after the vote the country's flagship progressive publication, The Nation (where I am a contributing editor), compiled the post-election analyses and prescriptives of two dozen left-of-center notables, (some) had definitely gone round the bend(:)
* Kerry got beaten in Ohio partly by a nefarious plan ... How many (lost votes) is unknown ... e-fraud ... one more stolen election ... (N)o need for us to change. The blame is all external ...
* (T)he election results forced a choice between "two nightmares": either 60 million Americans "knowingly" ratified Bush's "right-wing ideology" or "we have just witnessed a second successive nonviolent coup d'etat -- a massive voter fraud ... (W)e're facing something worse than fraud: that other F-word, fascism. ... (S)ome fascist demagogue -- maybe like George W. Bush ... stoked into becoming brownshirts ...
(T)rendy MoveOn.org, the motor force of the so-called "Democratic wing of the Democratic Party," (to whom) the biggest problems liberals face are those damned voting machines and Fox News ... Groups like MoveOn are fundamentally echo chambers for Volvo Democrats whose lives aren't much affected by whether a Democrat of a Republican is in the White House, and who think it's a politiclly significant act to go with an audience of like-minded souls to view a flockumentary like Fahrenheit 9/11 or Outfoxed, to set their TiVo to Jon Stewart's the Daily Show, or to pass around lefty spam containing fiery warnings of creeping fascism. A far more challenging exercise after the election would have been for MoveOn to order its troops to meet with and listen to ten people who disagreed with them -- instead of taling, as usual, only to one another. -- "THINKING OF JACKASSES: The Grand Delusions of the Democratic Party," MARC COOPER (contributing editor, The Nation), The Atlantic Monthly, April 2005
(T)aken as a whole, (Air America) is already infected by the corrosive negativity, strutting egotism, and bizarre paranoia that marked much of what traversed the conservative airwaves in the late 1990s.
Angry liberals surely take pleasure in hearing a host call President Bush a "lazy sack of crap," or shrug at complaints about the network's absurd speculation that Bush knew about 9/11 in advance and permitted the attacks for his own political gain. Yet the notion that such nonsense is politically beneficial retains a subliminal credibility with true believers of every stripe.
Much of what Air America carries is anger-laced polemic that plays to the farthest-left element of the electorate. The early Limbaugh was a populist at once funny and capable of maneuvering outside the party line; but few liberal hosts display any enthusiasm for attracting people beyond the segment that is already passionately attuned to their brand of smug, hostile liberalism (with Randi Rhodes suggesting that the Fredo Option -- assassination -- would be a useful way to take care of George Bush.) -- "THE AIR AMERICA PLAN," JOSHUA GREEN, The Atlantic Monthly, April 2005
62. Dear Headless, I'm not avoiding your question about my "angst" or whatever you called it. I just didn't pay any attention to it. If you have a problem with people bringing up the fact that a public school teacher doesn't know how to spell "fascist", then give up on Dan Quayle and Bush Sr's verbal gaffs, and President Bush every time he says NUC ULAR instead of NUC LEAR. We all know it's NUC LEAR but you lefties can't help but constantly point it out. Yet another example of hypocrisy from the left, which I believe, is what I was talking about in the first place regarding Julia Patterson. You should be more worried about why Ted Kennedy thinks a newly elected African American Senator is Osama Bin Laden.
Don't worry about Headless and s-choir, their just school kids pulling this stuff as a prank.
64. As evidenced by their inability to spell 'indicted' properly....