February 22, 2005
The Wrong Split
Gotta love that joker, State Sen. Bob Morton (R-7). He's yanking Western Washington's chain again with that old perennial goofball measure asking the President, U.S. House and U.S. Senate to declare a 51st State in Eastern Washington.
Senate Joint Memorial 8009 would draw a north-south line from the top to bottom of Washington, following the borders of Okanogan, Chelan, Kittitas, Yakima, and Klickitat counties - dividing Washington into two states.
Morton told AP:
People who think alike should be united.
Actually, Senator, people who don't think alike should be united. In the end, it's healthier that way. There's plenty of ideological and political diversity within Western Washington, outside of Seattle.
What we might really want to consider is some sort of measure mandating that Seattle form its own combined city-county government, as in the city of San Francisco. Put a fence around the asylum, so to speak. Call it the City and County of Seattle. Nice ring, huh?
Then King County can be administered by staff and elected officials whom - to a far greater degree than presently - are competent, honest and responsive to their constituents.
UPDATE: What's in a name, anyway? HB 2074 seeks to help effectuate a new county within King County, excluding Seattle. Called Cascade County. (Hat tip: Birdie). Re-branding is smart. Forget Cedar County. Of course, it's not going anywhere in the current legislature. I wonder about a ballot initiative, though. Could be an interesting summer and fall in these parts!
Posted by Matt Rosenberg at February 22, 2005
09:10 AM | Email This
1. Eastern Washington a separate state???
My bags are packed, when does the train leave?
I definitely think the City and County of Seattle idea is a good one. Seattle is almost like a girl in a boy's bathroom...it's so different from much of the state.
And I definitely dislike the West WA - East WA idea...That would suck...for I live in Western Washington.
3. HB2074 splits Seattle off into its own county.
4. Perhaps we could "outsource" the job of building a wall around Seattle to some company in Isreal that may already have experience at that since they have penned in Palestine.
*throws confetti in the air*
It's a start...
My above comment was in reply to Birdie's.
Nothing new with this idea. Since the 60's Eastern Washington has been trying to form a new state with North Idaho and Western Montana called "Columbia."
The reason has always been relatively the same... people in Eastern Washington feel as if King County runs the state and they get no representation or money for projects outside Western Washington.
I voted for Sen. Morton (because I actually live in his district!), and have been receiving election contest updates from him.
I think he is perhaps not as serious about this as I would like him and others to be. It would be an almost impossible task, but a commendable one.
However, you are also correct when you say that it is healthy for opposing views to be heard. That is one reason KC (or just Seattle) is so unhealthy. Liberals to do want conservatives to be able to voice their opinions.
Evidently, there are many closet Republicans in my area, because if you looked at the bumper stickers, political signs, and read the letters to the editor in the local papers, you would think that this was La La Land of the Liberals, even though it is East of Eden (I mean Seattle).
9. I think the border should be the I-5 & I-405. Seem thats where all the libs live and work....
10. I sense another Snake Plisskin movie coming on...."Escape from Seattle". Just put the wall up already!
11. This won't fly, of course. Liberals want to spend other people's money. Take any major project that Seattle has an interest in,and you'll find a scheme to saddle someone else with the cost.
12. Heck you can't even make a new county (ie Cedar County and Freedom County were all stopped by state government) in this state without an act of God! Split the state in two, only if Seattle is one half! The idealogies are red everywhere else!
Well Matt, It's attitudes like yours that cause this idea (new state) to live on. Senator Bob represents the district in which I reside, and I know more than one person who wishes that, not only he would be more serious about it, but that you rainysiders would take it more seriously. We don't usually get any recognition from you guys, unless you have some 'tater to cook. My county (Ferry) is about to go under due to the CAO, and all we hear about is how awful it is in east King county. I think maybe the eco-commies hold sway over here because rainysiders think that it would be good for them to have a free park in which to hunt, snowmobile and hike.
Is there any chance that us dry-siders could get some support from you folks? We really want help you also, but don't have the numbers to even get recognized.
Respectfully, Pete R.
14. This is wonderful. Everybody ends up happy ... and those that aren't have a short way to move. LOVE it...
15. If this really happened the western part of what is now Washington will become the state of Seattle.
Northern California wanted to split from Southern California, and of course that's never gonna happen either.
This is ridiculous. It's just as ridiculous as Americans moving to Canada.
Seattle will get its due when the voters have their say and run dead weight like Sims out of office.
Seattle should be fenced off and called its own County/State, like San Francisco. That would solve everyone's tribulations and make everyone happy- well, with the exception some of the more radical-types who think Seattle should dictate over the entire Stateís very diverse population located in assorted geographically varied industriesÖ someone living in a penthouse suite on Capitol Hill of course knows whatís best for the NE-WA farmer.
Fence in the asylum. Thatís even better than the Cedar County solution. What a nifty solution. Sign me up for the initiative when it rolls into action.
Folks, we're having a meeting on Saturday to discuss the new county effort.
This will not be a fast nor an easy effort, but it is necessary if the people are to have a voice in how their county governs them. This effort will require two separate but equally important actions: 1) gathering signatures and passing a statewide initiative to create rules to create a county (this to overcome the Cedar County court ruling) and 2) gathering signatures of 1/2 of the registered voters in the new county area. This will not replace the efforts currently being undertaken by Rep. Toby Nixon, but will rather be a parallel effort in case his bill is defeated or buried.
The purpose of this meeting will be to organize this effort, select an initial slate of leaders for this group, assign actions for creating and registering the committee, starting a press campaign, etc.
The tentative area we are discussing for this county is all areas outside of Seattle, but this will be one of the first decisions this group will need to make.
We'll try to keep the meeting productive and moving at a fast pace and we'll be looking for people to take on some of these tasks. It is an open meeting per the Library rules, so anyone can attend, but space is limited and we are not advertising the meeting for that reason, but instead relying on word of mouth.
When: Saturday, February 26th, 2-5 pm
Where: Maple Valley Library
21844 SE 248th Street * Maple Valley 98038 * 425-432-4620
If you have questions, please give John or Diane a call at 425-433-1614 or email us at firstname.lastname@example.org
It's not a popular position, but be careful what you wish for. The environmental fanaticism of the Democrats offsets the construction/building steamroller of the Republicans. If you want even more clogged roads and lifestyle decay, hand King County to the builders who are methodically taking over the Republican Party. Who do you think got Chris Vance elected to run the party?
If you don't think it can get worse, try it. King County taxpayers are already on the hook for billions in unfunded road and infrastructure costs that unrestrained Republican growth has caused. You want to turn it into tens of billions?
We're safest when the 2 parties, nearly equal in their corruption and unresponsiveness to the people (I do think Democrats hold the title right now), are stalemating each other. That should be the goal - to keep either of them from implementing their ultimate goals. For example, we need Rossi to counter the insanity of the left in the legislature, but I'd fear total Republican control of government no less than the total control by Democrats.
Jeff B: "This is ridiculous. It's just as ridiculous as Americans moving to Canada."
Most Americans (felons?) can legally move to Canada if they have the desire and the resources to do so, and if the Canadian government agrees. It is not a simple process, but that is a personal decision. I would not bar the door if an American wants to leave for whatever reason.
Dividing Washington may well be ridiculous, depending on the rationale, but so is taxation without representation. Are the needs and concerns of eastern Washingtonians equally represented in Olympia? I would say that is at least debatable. Eastern Washingtonians who have the means could move elsewhere. However, what about those without the means to move? They have the power to voice their opinions by voting, but if elections continue to resemble the "model" 2004 gubernatorial election, what do we do then?
21. The problem is, the current majority refuses to build roads. They are stuck on the transit projects that are going nowhere despite millions spent on salaries.
We need new homes desperately; they cannot build them fast enough. It is the eco terrorists and dept of ecology (gregoires baby) that prevents any level headed discussions because they bought the democrats their seats. Global warming scare tactics, tainted enviro reports and KC liberal like Sims and DOW who think they are GODS or RULERS. We are sick of it.
A new county is the best idea by far, well, next to dethroning home trained Ron Sims.
The fascinating question is, would Seattle be pleased to exist as its own county/state if given the opportunity? Methinks perhaps, because their hubris makes them think that they can exist without the balance of the state. I'd love to call their bluff on that one.
What? REPUBLICANS are calling for the split yet somehow DKPcowboy turns this into a DEMOCRATIC bluff???
The Republicans are masters of taking limited data and twisting it towards a different conclusion. This whole "revote" talk is just that...after losing the election, they use PR to try and twist the facts to form a different reality.
Give me a break. Rossi Lost. The REPUBLICANS want the state split. Geez Louise....you guys sure spin the stuff....it's hard to believe ANYTHING posted here--limited, subjective facts used to change reality...actally, that's very scary
Pay attention, Franklin. I did not posit that the dems were calling for the split. I simply asked a question...would Seattle support a split? My GUESS is that they would. IF THEY WOULD, then call 'em on it. The Reds would hold the door open for them and invite them to leave.
In reality, though, Seattlites are probably to CS to do it.
What makes any Democrat-Socialist think that it has to do with the preliminary results of the Governor election ? Personally, the idea is not feasible.
The idea that would make much more sense is HB 2074 that would confine King County to the boundaries of Seattle - much more satifying for all. Less area to implode - I would be in the new county area, which is fine by me as would Bellevue, Kirkland, Renton, Issaquah, Kent, Auburn and Federal Way which is enough economic base to sustain this new county. The existing King County would be easier to manage, but there wouldn't be much unincorporated King County - oh well ! The effect that this would have on the new, communistic CAO would be interesting to see. That thing still needs to be nipped in the bud, before it spreads like a bad virus...
I was paying attention. You tried to divert this republican effort to a "what if" democratic effort.
I've looked at many postings here and everytime someone does this against the current thinking here...they are accused of doing exactly what you did.
Face it...the republicans want a second state for good reasons...they are out of synch with the majority of state voters. That's fine. As Adam Kline (DEMOCRAT from Seattle said), go for it since it would make the eastern folks suddently find out they have to pay for everything themselves instead of sucking from the money hose from Seattle (that CS place in your world)...
27. Sharky's little jest, "putting a fence around the asylum", can be regarded as inflammatory, and dismissed as bar stool humor, but it's the unstable mind that comes up with such fictions. Seattle may be troubled, but it's irrational to suggest Seattle's conservatives are innocent. Asylums are filled with people who blame others for their problems. Bou-yah!
I could go for Seperating Settle from the Rest of King County, with that also including that Metro's Sales Tax, as well as Atlantic, Central, and Ryerson Bases(all in Seattl) go to a reborn Seattle Transit.
As for splitting the state, we should be bringing it closer together, instead of tearing it apart. The popular Amtrak Cascades Service that works well in Western Washington should be extended east on both the Stevens Pass Line and the Stampede Pass Line.
Also, contrary to Eastern Wahington opinions, they are not subsidizing us, but we are subsidizing them. Adams County gets about $5 back for each $1 collected in Gas Taxes. In the case of King County we only get back 84 cents on each $1 of Gas Tax collected here. Imagine if I-90 in Eastern Washington was maintained only through gas tax collected in Eastern Washington?
Franklin, you really need to stop whistling past the graveyard. Let's call it what it is. The majority of the state (read: Seattle) tells the rest of the state to go screw.
In practice, Seattle should properly be to Washington, as Austin is to Texas...that little place where we keep all our liberals so that they can swap ignorance and feel self-important.
This isn't a blue state, it's a blue city. If blue is the way to go, then put up. 'Cause Lord knows blue won't shut up.
Later folks. I'm heading over to Eastern Washington to engage in that most rare of activities within the confines of the great County of Seattle...capitalism. I'll be sure to send some confiscated "we-know-better-than-you" tax dollars back to Olympia.
31. How about we make mansion-caretaker Gregoire the Governor of Seattle and Governor Rossi, Governor of the rest of the state that elected him?
This is the problem with the right wing here. They are in the minority and moan and cry about being in the minority. Somehow, they conclude that since many of the majority live in the most populated region in the state, it's wrong.
Truth be told, all these arguments lessen the viability of the right to compete successfuly. Crybaby tactics don't win elections....in the past or in the future....
Plenty of red in this country...why cry here when you can go party with Delay's cheating tactics in Texas? You say to people moving to Canada "good riddance." Well, the same applies here....if you don't like the majority, move to where you are in tune with the feelings...and "good riddance".
PS...i know this is off topic...but can anyone on the right defend Delay in his criminal activity to keep power in the Republican hands? (HINT: assume DeLay was a democrat and did the same thing...think how'd you call for his neck!)
33. If people in E. Washington want to form their own state, more power to them. They can live free from things like taxes, roads, and professional sports.
34. Freedom from professional sports sounds pretty good to me.
Franklin - Delay is wrong and the Republicans generally do not practice defending the indefensible like you leftist Democrats do.
I don't see anyone wanting to defend him, which isn't a bad thing. He should pay for his wrongdoings like anyone else.
I also think though that the biased MSM is out to get Delay, since his politics are contrary to the MSM's. So believe what you want to believe about it.
Re: Crybabies - You are the pot calling the kettle black. You Democrat-Socialists will whine whenever you don't get your way or there is a threat to lose power, then you'll distort the truth to get sympathy. Gov. Luda-Chris cries about talk show radios out to get her - so give us a break ! Adam Kline comes across like a devout socialist/Marxist who would prefer seeing people have no power of initiative. That's strong language, but how do you differentiate his attitude from that of a Communist leader ?
36. Is there professional sports in Seattle?? not that I've noticed in recent history.... Oh, you mean the overpaid bunch of non-athletes that we pitch in our tax dollars to help support??? If Seattle wants to subsidize the M's, Hawks, and Sonics, let them have at it... I'll pay a little more for the 1-2 games I go to each year-- or better yet watch winning teams on tv...
"It's not a popular position, but be careful what you wish for. The environmental fanaticism of the Democrats offsets the construction/building steamroller of the Republicans."
One again the lack of foresight of the part of libís Eco-nuts and NIMBI anti-growth ranks shines through.
Short of legislating birth control, growth will not be stopped ). The GMA is a failure in that it forces high destiny (apartment) living as the only affordable option for many, and forces the cost of housing higher and higher. You only need look at real estate prices to understand these are out of reach for many. Affordable housing has gone the way of the Edsel under GMA and demo leadership. If the dem's would quick blowing money creating more government jobs overseeing unnecessary regulation, there would be money for improved and additional roads.
Where would you suggest your neighbors kids live when they grow up, on the streets of Seattle with their address listed as King County Elections?
38. Maybe the Ron Sims and Democrats will realize that after their rediculous tax hiking and land stealing with the CAO that it is time for change in this state, and we are not going to get it with CG. She has people standing at the door with their hands out and she is talking the talk, but I doubt she can walk the walk with no new taxes. My Property Taxes were up a whopping 10 % this year in their no new taxes mantra! BS Split up King County is my wish!
39. I am a refugee from Western Washington, and specifically those hyper-looney/liberal counties of Grays Harbor and King. Now that I live in wonderfully conservative Eastern Wa., I can only laugh at you unfortunates who still reside in the physically beautiful, but morally corrupt left-most part of our state.
40. As I've been saying in my blog, Seattle already behaves like a city-state. It may as well not only seceed from Martin Luther King County, but also from the entire country.
MASSTRANSITFAN Imagine if I-90 in Eastern Washington was maintained only through gas tax collected in Eastern Washington?
I can imagine that, if you are talking about the new great state of Eastern Washington.
42. No, I'd prefer we keep the conservatives here, because I probably won't be moving for something like that.
This was in an email sent to me day before yesterday. Please pay close attention to your beloved Kline's statement about us hillbilly east siders. Glad he's yours and not ours.
Hearing set for splitting Washington into two states
A hearing on a bill that would split the state of Washington into two states will be held in Olympia on Feb. 22.
Sen. Adam Kline, D-Seattle, is co-sponsoring Senate Joint Memorial 8009, which would ask the U.S. government to establish Eastern and Western Washington as separate states.
Kline said a "disproportionate amount" of tax revenue generated in the western part of the state goes to the eastern part.
"Why should the western half continue to subsidize the east? We could use that money right here for job creation, education and health care," Kline said in a statement.
The state would be split using the crest of the Cascade Mountains and the western borders of Okanogan, Chelan, Kittitas, Yakima and Klickitat counties.
The hearing is set for 10 a.m. in Senate Hearing Room 2 in the John A. Cherberg Building in Olympia.
As for splitting King County, lets go for a Trifecta.
First, Split King into urban King County and rural Cedars County. (King County can be everything inside the Urban Growth management boundary.)
Then split King County into "Seattle City and County" and an "urban" King County. Or call it Eastlake, and auction off the rights to "King County" to pay for Sound Transit choo-choo to nowhere.
I'll grant, there might need to be some fudging of borders to make the boundaries more of a regualr polygon, and not some gerrymandered metastasized ameboid.
There might need to be some fudging of borders to make the boundaries more of a a regualr polygon, and not some gerrymandered metastesized ameboa.
The primary reason I would back this idea isn't to put Seattlites on their own resurvation, so much as end a situation where one county contains a third of the state's vote.
I think the Trifecta will be great, have Urban King County be it's own, minus Shoreline, and make that Lake Washington County, and then rural King County be Cedar or Cascade County, and Shoreline be amalgamated into the City and County of Seattle. Philadelphia and San Francisco are examples of City-Counties. In the case of Philadelphia, they have a City Council made up of 12 Gerrymandered-Partisan Wards, and 7 more seats using a form of Semi-Proportional Representation called Limited Voting. A Seattle City Counicl with 16 or 17 members, 10 elected by Districts(Nonpartisan), and 7 elected by Choice Voting is the way to go if that happens.
I was opposed to the shrinking of the King County Council back to 9 members. I was for increasing it, but as a trade-off use Proportional Representation to represent Political Minorities(Seattle Republicans, Rural and Suburban Democrats.)
46. Imagine if Eastern Washington was one state, right now. I do not think Vance would be contesting the election in Chelan County.
47. Folks, we're having a meeting on Saturday to discuss the new county effort.
You are off topic. We are discussing how to make a new state here. If successful, there will be no use to make a new county.
Adams County gets about $5 back for each $1 collected in Gas Taxes. In the case of King County we only get back 84 cents on each $1 of Gas Tax collected here
Yes, I am tired of subsidizing the east side as well. Building mile after mile of million dollar road projects to towns of 1000 is an expensive proposition. Not to mention the unbelieveable billions spent on farm subsidies and subsidized phone service and about every utility out there. (yes, much of that is federal)
48. "Why should the western half continue to subsidize the east? We could use that money right here for job creation, education and health care," Kline said in a statement.
I'm sorry we are such a burden on the western half. I think you all should kick us out of your state so that we are no longer such a burden. After all, you outnumber us. Let's have a vote. But I remember reading somewhere that this has to be approved by the Feds. Like that is going to happen. Maybe Idaho can just annex us temporarily.
I have several thoughts on this.
I am reminded of the break up of Yugoslavia. It might have survived, if the Slovenes would have stuck with the federation. But when they withdrew, the Croats didn't want to go be left in the remainder at the mercy of the Serbs, so the Croats left, too.
As a Western Washington resident outside of Puget Sound from a Republican-leaning area(Clark County), I wouldn't want to go it alone at the mercy of the Seattle left.
It wouldn't be too hard to move the proposed state line a little to the west and add Clark County (along with Skamania) to the new state. We already have a branch of WSU here (I think the only one in the west) and we have a greater connection to the east than anywhere else in the west--one hardly needs to get much above sea level in most places along the Columbia River to drive to the Tri-cities.
Since we don't watch Seattle TV here, we would have just as much media connection to Spokane, Yakima, or the Tri-cities.
No one City would dominate the new state if Vancouver is added. Spokane, Vancouver, Yakima, and the Tri-cities would all have a lot of clout.
I like the idea of walling off Seattle too. However, the solution is to be the first state to go to a parliamentary system. Since the Democrats dominate Seattle with 75% of the vote and the central areas of Tacoma, Everett, Vancouver, Spokane, plus Olympia and little else, they would be at a disadvantage in controlling a legislature that the executive was responsible to. Republicans have been shut out of the Governor's office for more than 20 years. Yet we controlled (or were tied) in at least one house of the legislature for 14 of those 20 years. Since their votes are much more concentrated than ours, we would do better in legislative districts.
We just need to look to the north in British Columbia where a center-right government has an overwhelming majority in the BC legislature (even though they run under the banner of the Liberal Party--but it means something different outside of the US).
Maybe we should elect a Premier instead of a Governor.
KS: thanks for your willingness to say delay is wrong.
Unfortuantely, there are too many folks who defend him--folks in great power positions.
Too bad all the folks (REPUBLICANS) who agreed with you have been pushed from the ethics committee as a result of delay-pressure via Frist. The committee is left with republcians who publicly defended Delay. Great message from delay/frist: "mess with me and even if you're right (as you, KS, assert), you'll get screwed"
If it was'nt for those "million dollar roads" you wouldn't have food or toilet paper. Do you and others shop Walmart? Guess where their trucks come from? Not Bellingham.
I have a feeling it's been awhile since SOME of you folks have visited the east side. Take a drive over and admire our wonderful road systems.
We on the east side have been shafted for years, taxation without representation and we're tired of it. I and others would like to see the state split. We'd rather be poor and be free from the left-winged oily Olympia government. You'd still have to live in that miserable environment, we would not.
Erik, your comment on farm subsidies, Guess who is the largest recipient in the state? How about the DNR with a total of $9,191,338.18 from 1995-2003.
Better yet, Ducks Unlimited ranks 10th in the nation with $20,391,397.00.
52. The State Gas Tax mainly goes to State Highways, and just about every road connecting small communities is a State Highway, and some of them are in need of repairs. I also know about the Monroe St. Bridge in Spokane, what it went through as it waited for it's time to get fixed as Spokane was fixing up the bridges across the river. First they banned commercial vehicles, then it was Spokane Transit Authority Buses and Spokane Fire Department Buses. Also, the SR904 Interchange at Four Lakes is a killer, and some parts of SR904 are one lane each way. What did the state do with some of the money as part of the Nickel Package, they bought a railroad. The Palouse River and Coulee City RR is the largest of the small grain carriers in the Palouse, and if that 300 mile system went broke, the number of grain trucks on the highways in the Palouse would have required even more investment, especially more than the $8 million it cost the state to buy the railraod.
I have been following the outrage up in Victoria for years, and they have a refferendum on the May 2005 Ballot to reform the way they elect Members of Legislative Assembly. The Single Member District Plurality will be history in BC Provincial elections, if passed, replaced by Choice Voting in Single Member District. Also, they have something that the rest of Canada already envies and we take for granted, called a fixed election date.
I got a few pictures I took of the BC Provincial Capitol in Victoria when I was up there in November on my Webshots page. Looks kind of intimidating, like our Legislative Building in Olympia,
It is easy for Westies, even westie republicans, to discount this idea. For you would be stuck with the same liberals that you have.
We on the eastside don't think it is so absurd and quite frankly it would make for a great lesson in State competition.
Could we almost set up a Gault's Gulch right next to a liberal haven? Imagine the contrast!
With technology like it is today good producing republican types could simply move and leave the west side to whiners that do not know how to produce anything. Heck, we might even get Boeing to come the rest of the way over the mountains and set up shop in Moses Lake!
Sounds good to me.