February 18, 2005
Incompetent Elections Official Praises Less Incompetent Elections Officials

Los Angeles County Registrar of Voters Conny McCormack thinks King County "displayed amazing accuracy" in the 2004 election

McCormack said she was impressed with King County's inaccuracy rate of only 0.2 percent. "We've never hit 0.2 of a percent (in Los Angeles County). I think that is excellent," she added. Los Angeles County's error rate in its voter-crediting process for the 2004 election was about 1 percent of its 3.1 million votes.
Yikes. And we all thought that 0.2% was bad. As I discovered the other day, if SeaTac airport had an error rate of 0.2%, it would mean 2 airplane crashes a day. But if LAX had an error rate of 1%, it would mean a crash every 80 minutes!

Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at February 18, 2005 01:00 AM | Email This
Comments
1. It's all about what is acceptable. Apparently Democrats are more than willing to live with the error rate as long as it generates the outcomes they prefer.

Not on my tax dollar. I want clean elections. As a computer professional that would lose his job if hackers were able to breach a network at even a .01% per ecommerce transaction rate, I'm not impressed with LA County or King County.

Clean it up and do it right. Until heads roll and we've got a result that is accurate, I won't rest.

Posted by: Jeff B. on February 18, 2005 01:16 AM
2. That's the best you can do Stefan? The point of Modie's article is that accuracy is irrelevant. He clearly and concisely explains the difference between the precinct-level reconciliation, and the voter creditation processes.

You were awfully eager to quote Bob Bruce when he said the 2000 discrepancy was under 20, but now that he's clarified that we're talking about two different numbers, I don't see you mentioning him at all. And Sam Reed even says that the voter-credit variance is so irrelevant that most counties don't even bother calculating it.

Well, maybe you can get some one-on-one time with Dean Logan tomorrow, and he can better explain it to you.

Posted by: David Goldstein on February 18, 2005 02:36 AM
3. Ditto what Jeff B. said. I work for an airline and these numbers are nowhere near acceptable. Unfortunately it's not just King County or LA, the problem is rampant in elections all over the country. It needs to stop. Now. -Spin

Posted by: SpinDaddy on February 18, 2005 05:15 AM
4. David, look past the sound bite spin. The difference IS real and it IS significant. Please, by all means, put some numbers out there for thoughtful consideration of your perspective. Please explain to King County voters why, when every person is supposed to sign in before voting, there are a NET difference of over 1800 votes versus voters. Every vote SHOULD have a voter. What is so difficult to understand about that?

Posted by: zapporo on February 18, 2005 05:56 AM
5. Down here in California it is illegal to ask a voter for ID. We also are prohibited from asking for ID during registration. There is no address checking by any government agency and any private citizen who tries is sure to hounded as a racist by the Democrats and their pet newspaper, the L.A. Times.
We also are the home to a huge population of noncitizens. Several million people from every country in the world live in California. Most are not yet citizens and at least half are here illegally.
Combine this with the fact that Los Angeles County is larger than most States, having almost 10,000,000 residents and you get chaos. The State and County are dominated by a single party that is totally uninterested in any reform.
I am not surprised by the fact L.A. County has a 1% error rate. If we had any decent information, it would climb to heights only acchieved in Chicago.

Posted by: Ken Hahn on February 18, 2005 06:16 AM
6. In my opinion, the #1 reason to keep the Electoral College system in our Presidential election is to limit the influence of voter fraud in CA.
Can you imagine the number of illegal aliens voting in LA county alone?
With the liberal voter registration laws in CA I believe non citizens could account for a million or more votes. The Electoral College limits the effect these voters have on a national election to the electoral votes allocated to that state.

Posted by: Brad on February 18, 2005 06:17 AM
7. zapporo,

It’s not difficult to understand, and that isn’t his point. He simply doesn’t want to acknowledge the obvious. It’s a common tactic; wave off the big issues, ignore what he can, and attempt to reduce the argument down to incidentals. Conservatives and Rossi supporters want a fair outcome, and to have real reform to see that this doesn’t happen again. For David and others, it’s only about winning this time, and to insure having the same doors of obfuscation and incompetence open during the next cycle.

It’s a case of two completely separate sets of priorities, ethics, and morality. The office is about the only common denominator. There isn’t even a significant commonality in the use of the English language.

Posted by: scott158 on February 18, 2005 06:28 AM
8. Why is it that it is Democratic run counties that have all the sloppiness. The reports I see is more than just sloppiness. Sloppiness means more voter fraud is possible. Volunters looking for those who have not voted in 4 elections and voting for them. THat is true Democratic Party volunterism.
It comes down to not every vote should count. It is every Legal US Citizen vote should count. An honest run election is manditory. We should not be like other countries like Cuba. Fidel gets reelected every election. Any serious opposition party to his leadership will disappear. THat is the socialist way. Only there way is right and they will control it anyway they can. Atleast we dont have thugs in the street beating people who vote the wrong way. Remember to Democratic leadership it is not if you win legally it is win at any cost. Unions support that mentality. JUst like in Wisconsin during the last election. Election day the Republican get out the vote vans tires (All FOur of them) where slashed. It is not on the right to vote it is on there selected peoples right to vote.
Hillary putting a bill up to allow all felons to vote. Did not Pennsylvania have a group of college kids go into a local prison to provide voter registration. I wonder if they checked to see if the people filling out the absentee ballot request where felons or not.
There are a lot of questions about the voting system. It is important that we fight to fix it. I am all for Picture ID when you vote. IF you vote provisionally 2 or three ID's required verified by two people. Provisional ballots should replace absentee ballots if both are found submitted. A higher standard means less fraud. Absentee ballots are a good choice if you want to muddy the waters on the election results.

Posted by: David Anfinrud on February 18, 2005 06:36 AM
9. The bottom-line is as hard as he tried,
LOGAN could not reconcile votes and voters.
IMPOSSIBLE says Dean.
IRRELEVANT says his LA Socialist running mate.

Really??

Then how come Jefferson County was able to do it?
18,772 votes and 18,772 voters.
100%!!
And why do they reconcile every time??

Other Counties are very close.
Goldy misquoted Spokane COunty as being off thousands!! to build his case for justifying KingCo's sloppiness.
Then BAMMMMM!
Spokane County is off by only 77!

Bad try Goldy---No Sale!!

Posted by: Mr. Cyncial on February 18, 2005 06:45 AM
10. I'd like David Goldstein et al to explain to Washington State voters why 'accuracy is irrelevant', especially in a contest decided by 261 or 42 or 129 votes. That's an incredibly ignorant statement.

I saw a Bank of America commercial that mentioned check processing. It said that the goal wasn't to process 11 million checks. The goal is to process one check properly, and repeat the process 11 million times. What say you, Ron Sims?

Posted by: Lawrence on February 18, 2005 07:15 AM
11. And now...

Hillary is in support of a Congressional bill that lets all felons vote.


It's gone beyond the passive backroom tacit receipt of the benefit of these votes. Now through rhetoric and legislative action, they wish to codify these benefits. Guess the only thing left for them is to ban, on a national basis, the voting by people who hold certainl religious beliefs.

All in defense of the self perpetuating power structure they have built.

Posted by: Patches Pal on February 18, 2005 07:53 AM
12. David Goldstein, Just how many dead votes, felon votes, and illegal alien votes ARE acceptable to you? [Are you one of the New Yawkers who "double voted Democrat in NY as well as Florida in 2000? JCH

Posted by: JCH on February 18, 2005 07:56 AM
13. David,

I understand the distinction they're making. They're saying the count was wonderfully, magically accurate; it's merely their record-keeping process that's characterized by grotesque incompetence.

But they never do explain how the inaccuracy of the election records is irrelevant to possible inaccuracy of the count. They merely assert it, and it is an assertion which I think any reasonable and honest person would have to question.

Vance is right: If they cannot produce a reasonably accurate list of the people who voted, how can they possibly defend the accuracy of the count? I'd really be interested in hearing an "explanation" of that one, David.

Do you really not understand that the whole point of requring voters to sign either the poll book or the ballot envelope is to help ensure an accurate count?

But somehow, even though the number of signatures and the number of ballots show a gross discrepancy, anyone who questions the accuracy of the count is just being ridiculous?

Posted by: ScottM on February 18, 2005 08:00 AM
14. ok first of all, we arent California. We have rules in this state re: voting. The rules werent followed. Now they are making more rules with the "new reform package"-which are essentially the same rules-give or take a few. We require showing valid ID when voting!! We require an address to our home of residence!!!! Felons and dead people arent allowed to vote!!!
the homeless can vote for presidential election only!!!
Evidently California has other rules-i really dont care about-otherwise, I'd live in California.
I really dont care about the "accuracy rate". I have lost trust in the system due to the incompetency seen in King County-BECAUSE THEY DIDNT FOLLOW THE RULES!!! They live by their own set of invisible standards and guidelines and hold themselves above the law!!
Because the governor's race was so close-Rossi won the first 2 votes and all of a sudden Gregoire's in the house-due to King County's errors!!!
NO ONE is above the law-or at least shouldnt be!! Those in "power positions" must show morales and values-be examples to those they represent!!

Posted by: darcy on February 18, 2005 08:04 AM
15. And let's not forget that we know that at least 348 votes in that discrepancy were provisional ballots illegally put through the poll site machines.

But of course, the discrepancy has nothing to do with the accuracy of the count, nosirreebob!

Posted by: ScottM on February 18, 2005 08:13 AM
16. And in all the meshugas, I had actually forgotten that Logan himself has previously admitted that many ballots may have been put through the machines illegally without signatures being required.

Posted by: ScottM on February 18, 2005 08:25 AM
17. Ahhh, thank you, Ken. It seems that just when I get tired of fighting the liberal powers that be in this state, and the idiotic measures they pass, I'm reminded once again that it could be worse. I could live in Mexifornia.

Thanks for reminding me again, Ken! Now, if only the lawmakers here weren't so hell-bent on copying every bad idea your lawmakers churn out....

Posted by: Scott on February 18, 2005 08:27 AM
18. David Anfinrud said:
"Did not Pennsylvania have a group of college kids go into a local prison to provide voter registration."

What I wonder about is who mailed the registrations in? Did the kids or felons, or did the kids hand the forms over to someone? Who were the absentee ballots mailed to? The prisoners themselves or someone else?

I think I could live with felons voting (where legal), but I don't think that's what is really going on.

SporkLift Driver.

Posted by: SporkLift Driver on February 18, 2005 08:40 AM
19. want a laughable standard from LA county vote website:
http://www.lavote.net/voter/faqs.htm#top1.11

QUOTE===Applicants who do not have either can provide the last four digits of their Social Security number===UNQUOTE

LMAO-- AND WHAT "DOCUMENTS"?????


Is identification required to register? ...top

The Help America Vote Act (HAVA), enacted by Congress in October of 2002, states that individuals registering to vote for the first time in the state/jurisdiction, must provide either a valid California driver's license or state ID card number. Applicants who do not have either can provide the last four digits of their Social Security number. If the voter provides a driver’s license or state ID number when he/she registers to vote, and the number can be matched to a state record, then the voter will not be required to show ID when he/she votes.
Otherwise…

If an individual registers by mail, has not previously voted in an election for federal office, and votes in person, the voter must show photo ID or a document that indicates both the voter's name and residence address.
If an individual registers by mail, has not previously voted in an election for federal office, and votes by mail, the voter must submit a copy of a photo ID or a document with both the voter's name and residence address.

Posted by: goop on February 18, 2005 08:41 AM
20. Reed, Sims, Logan, and the person from California that was "urged" to speak out are telling us that we should trust them. They will let us know what is relevant and what is not. We should not try to think for ourselves.

Trust is earned, and they have not earned my trust. They have lost what little they had.
The more public relations press conferences these "election professionals" have, the less I am inclined to believe them. They seem too frantic in their desire to make us believers.

Posted by: JG on February 18, 2005 08:44 AM
21. Honestly I think it is a very sad state of affairs when our election officials as essentially telling us "You should feel lucky that it's only this bad". This is a classic examlpe of "Good enough for government work". Its too hard to do the job right, so they'll do it as right as they can up to the point of not being too inconvenienced.

Imagine the chaos that would exist in our society if other agencys worked this way:

Airports: already established, we'd have daily crashes at every major airport

Banks: Thought you budgeted enough to pay all your bills? Oops, sorry, the bank misplaced 1% of your paycheck.

Hospitals: They really wanted to give you the right medicine to save your life, but they were off by a bit, sorry, but hey, you can probably still vote.

There are many far more complex systems in our daily lives than elections, all of which perform at a much higher level of precision than our current elections sytems, so why is it so hard to get elections right?

Posted by: Jason on February 18, 2005 08:45 AM
22. This should about end the law suit. There is a difference between vote counting and voter reconciliation, the first has to do with the election the second with an accounting process.

And that idiot Vance, "(officials) are just trying to create as much confusion and smoke and mirrors and jargon and gobbledygook as possible." Which is exactly what Vance is doing in a statement that means nothing and is full of non-sense words. Who is he fooling?

Posted by: Doc on February 18, 2005 08:59 AM
23. My train of thought left the station before I had a chance to put it in my earlier post.
I keep hearing the statement from the Democrats "you are comparing apples to oranges" when talking about voters/ballots reconciliation.

Has Sims/Logan fully explained how they compare apples to apples, and/or oranges to oranges in their voters/ballots reconciliation process?

Is this where they say, "Oh well, close enough for government work."

Posted by: JG on February 18, 2005 09:01 AM
24. By seeing the posts of the likes of Doc - Long live the trolls! Must not be much going on in their world today.

Posted by: Orange Robyn on February 18, 2005 09:02 AM
25. Totally off topic here but.... Does anyone know if Hearing in Chelan is available on net anywhere???

Posted by: Chris on February 18, 2005 09:07 AM
26. Orange Robyn, there is a lot going on in the world today, esp. in Washington where it appears the lawsuit over the governor election is dead in the water.

Posted by: Doc on February 18, 2005 09:09 AM
27. Jason,
You assume that Simms, Logan and the machine want to get it right. I make no such assumption.

They did what was necessary to steal the election. Our MSM has given them the free pass then need. Were it not for this blog and others like it, this would have passed under the radar long ago.


Posted by: Brad on February 18, 2005 09:14 AM
28. Doc,

It's funny how some people think that saying something can make it so, like your comment about the lawsuit being dead in the water. What is that based on?

I could easily say something like, Doc is trolling moron who doesn't have a clue about what he is talking about. Does that make it so? Oh wait, I at least have your own posts to point to as evidence, what do you have?

Posted by: Jason on February 18, 2005 09:16 AM
29. Classic Goldstein Spin,

Stefan's point is simply that accuracy matters and Goldstein immediately spins it in with Modie's article to try and explain the errors into different Democrat tolerated and justified categoires.

Wake up David. It's about the accuracy. No one in this state with a shred of integrity has any trust in the accuracy of this outcome. And no one here with any common sense is willing to accept that this is just what happened, no one meant any harm, the three counts are over so let's just pack up and go home. Even if the election contest fails, this is all about reform that will assure that ACCURACY (there's that word again) matters in future elections.

What's particularly galling is that not only do hard core Dems want this over to keep Gregoire in office, but they are unwilling to pass meaningful reforms to assure better results in the future.

If you don't understand why that's offensive to the vast majority of Washingtonions with a shred of integrity, than you are worse than I thought.

Posted by: Jeff B. on February 18, 2005 09:20 AM
30. What do I have? Expert opinion that says the lawsuit is frivolous. What do you have? An over zealous blogger manufacturing election atrocities that truly help destroy this states faith in democracy.

Posted by: Doc on February 18, 2005 09:24 AM
31. Speaking of Hillary, does this LA elections person know Hillary?
I ask because Gregoire had been flying to DC while AG meeting with Bill and Hill? It just seems odd that Gregoire wins the hand count thru our sloppy KC elections department and then BAM all of a sudden here comes a LA elections official to defend KC.

Lets dig deeper into the coming and going of Gregoire as AG. More secret meetings and schedules not revealed.

Posted by: chardonnay on February 18, 2005 09:27 AM
32. Doc,

Have any evidence or links of the 'expert opinion'? And please don't write that you are the expert - we've read your posts.

Posted by: Larry on February 18, 2005 09:33 AM
33. Doc

Everyone's a damn expert.

There isn't any faith in this state's democracy because there isn't a fair democracy in this state.

This Blog did NOT create the loss of faith, we found this blog because our faith was lost by a bunch a crazed criminals who resort to fraud to steal elections.

When elections arn't fair, honest, and transparant the system creates distrust and a loss of faith.

WHAT THE HELL ARE THE DEMOCRATS TRYING TO HIDE AND COVERUP BY ALL OF THE WAGON DRILLS????

Why did the King County Elections Board REQUEST the LA County Auditor to have news conference?????

Have a Great corrupt Day!
Dana

Posted by: sgmmac on February 18, 2005 09:34 AM
34. "What do I have? Expert opinion that says the lawsuit is frivolous"

Sorry, dude, the world is full of self-proclaimed experts whose opinions are worth just what you paid for them.

In this case, Judge Bridges' opinion is the only one worth counting, and you just might have noticed he didn't follow the Democrats expert opinion that the case be thrown out of court.

Posted by: Insufficiently Sensitive on February 18, 2005 09:39 AM
35. Doc writes:

"What do I have? Expert opinion that says the lawsuit is frivolous."

The experts seem to disagree. Isn't this why the issue is in court, and a judge will make a ruling?

"What do you have? An over zealous blogger manufacturing election atrocities that truly help destroy this states faith in democracy."

No, my faith in our state's democracy was destroyed by the obvious mismangement of our election. But if you are happy with how things turned out, you should have no worries (kinda like Alfred E. Newman).

Posted by: Shaun on February 18, 2005 09:43 AM
36. This blog is the equivalent of yelling fire in a crowded theatre.

The process has been COMPLETELY transparent and this transparency is the only reason the data has been available to manufacture discrepancies.

You need a link to an expert? The post these comments are attached to should be enough.

Remember the Registrar position is non-partisan.

Posted by: Doc on February 18, 2005 09:48 AM
37. "The experts seem to disagree. Isn't this why the issue is in court, and a judge will make a ruling?"

No, the "experts" behind the lawsuit are only expert (not so expert since they lost) in winning elections, not on the election process.

It's time to heal, not divide.

Posted by: Doc on February 18, 2005 09:53 AM
38. Doc

You don't have an expert so just admit it. You are an expert troller though! You are on a conservative blog site trying to agitate and stir up trouble.

There is nothing transparant about finding "new" ballots 9 NINE times in King County.

Their registrar isn't non-partisian either.

Try presenting some facts or go find a left liberal elitist blog to post on, otherwise
expect to be attacked on your positions or lack thereof.

Posted by: sgmmac on February 18, 2005 09:53 AM
39. LOL Doc, you crack me up !!!!

What is transparent is the lack of KC owning up to it's "MISTAKES". Not the "Oops We Farted" kind of MISTAKES, I am talking about how can a Voter Vote if Voter didnt SIGN SOMETHING. I dont buy your Election VS Reconciliation Explanation. It seems to me, you need a VOTER before you COUNT his/her BALLOT.....DUH!!!!

Posted by: Chris on February 18, 2005 09:59 AM
40. There is a problem when one posts ever sort of rumor and conspiracy theory: one loses touch with reality.

Has Stefan done that? You be the judge.

Here's what republican SOS Sam Reed thinks of Stefan's basless rants:

Moderator: Anything, Sam, you want so say that you haven’t had a chance to address? Any urban myths?

Reed: Actually, there is, you are right. A frustration of mine as a person with considerable experience in the field of elections is that some of the rumors of errors, mistakes, illegalities, were absolutely incorrect, but because of the Internet, blogs and talk radio, they were circulated rapidly and extensively and helped contribute to the loss of confidence and trust in the system. I would hope in the future that the people who operate these blogs and the talk radio hosts will exercise the caution and ethics of the journalism profession, and that will help the citizery understand what really happened in the election process.

Posted by: Erik on February 18, 2005 10:01 AM
41. While we're at it, why don't we aspire to be like Havana ....

Posted by: DeadManVoting (aka Iguana) on February 18, 2005 10:02 AM
42. This precisely defines how pathetic David Goldstein is. David Goldstein is not capable of doing statistical analysis or any valid research whatsoever. He blindly uses what his Leftist number-crunchers manufacture.
Goldstein and his Leftist number-crunchers get busted big time BLINDLY using some #'s from Spokane County without validating the data. Goldstein, carla and torridjoe claim AHA, there are thousands of unreconciled votes in a Rossi County....Spokane. Then they claim they were somehow victimized by bad data when Spokane Co. actually shows they cannot reconcile only 77.
Goldstein is busted for his incompetence...but continues his twisted ways.

The only thing that would make Goldstein's whole pathetic effort even more funny is if it turned out his key number-crunchers were actually government employees blogging while at work!!!
How would folks feel about that I ask????

Posted by: Dude on February 18, 2005 10:02 AM
43. Stefan and the other Bloggers here at Sound Politics are NOT spreading rumors, lies or conspiracy theories! They are posting facts, numbers and statistics that they get from the county election officials, state websites and MSM sources!

What is HERE, is what the government officials DON'T want you to know. They have great trust in the their assumptions that the public is TOO STUPID to find out the truth!

Posted by: sgmmac on February 18, 2005 10:08 AM
44. A Voter is a person who Voted. When Washington counted the votes Gregoire won.

Republicans are trying to dismiss votes based on technicalities, something that should have been done BEFORE the vote.

Quit putting the cart before the horse.

And what Eric said.

Posted by: Doc on February 18, 2005 10:11 AM
45. Erik - I find it interesting that you go along with the accusation that all the issues with the election are just urban myths. You quote one not exactly dis-interested party and take that as fact, even when that person did not give one iota of information to show why the "urban myths" are incorrect, while disregarding all the numbers put out by the election people.

Additionally the comment of "republican SoS" just shows the lack of understanding that we are looking for truth, not party affiliation. That lack of understanding of that little fact does not bode well for the democrats that apparently are more interested in party affiliation before facts.

Posted by: Jonathan on February 18, 2005 10:18 AM
46. Doc says:
"A Voter is a person who Voted. When Washington counted the votes Gregoire won."

Since there are more votes than voters in KC, can you explain where they came from? If the voters only voted once, then who cast the extra votes? Do you have a crystal ball?

What about the confirmed dead "voters"? Can you explain their ability to ignore the natural laws and perform this otherwise impossible task?

Posted by: dragon on February 18, 2005 10:18 AM
47. How can you dismiss a DEAD voter before they vote? They are already dismissed, they are in a grave somewhere.

How can you dismiss someone who votes who is not legally registered?

How can you dismiss someone who votes absentee from Reno, Nevada and votes at the polls in King County too?

Don't worry! This problem will resolve itself in the courts and in the next election. I am going to work very hard to get these corrupt thugs out of office in 2006 and 2008!

Posted by: sgmmac on February 18, 2005 10:18 AM
48. The Bloggers at Sound Politics are posting statistics and we all know what type of people rely on statistics:

Liars and Damn Liars.

Posted by: Doc on February 18, 2005 10:18 AM
49. Doc - technically how do you know that someone got out of their grave to vote before the vote?

Posted by: Jonathan on February 18, 2005 10:20 AM
50. What are you relying on Doc? Party magic? Smoke & mirrors? or just a dumb blind belief that all Democrats are good? Did you like Jimmy Hoffa too? Was he a good guy taking care of the poor people or a merciless killer who was himself killed?

Posted by: sgmmac on February 18, 2005 10:22 AM
51. How do you know the dead voted for Gregoire? It's a wash.

We are talking less then one vote per precinct in KC!

How can the election board prevent grieving spouses from submitting absentee ballots? And is it really such a big deal?

Posted by: Doc on February 18, 2005 10:23 AM
52. Yes, Doc, it is a big deal. It's against the LAW!

Posted by: Lien on February 18, 2005 10:26 AM
53. I'm relying on one single fact: the number of votes cast and the amount received by each party.

What has happened since is smoke and mirrors.

Posted by: Doc on February 18, 2005 10:26 AM
54. Doc

There are 580 precincts in KC! She won by 129?
You tell me, is the margin of error greater than the margin of win?

Simple math!

No-one knows who won because of the fraud and errors......

Posted by: sgmmac on February 18, 2005 10:28 AM
55. Yikes. And we all thought that 0.2% was bad.

Exactly, Shark. If you dive into the elections world beyond King County, you will find that election accuracy here is pretty good compared to many other places. Does that mean it is good enough? No. Does it mean election reform is not necessary? No - it obviously is. But what it does mean is your shock and awe about King County alone, when put in this larger context, should be tempered by the greater realities of the system.

Posted by: Daniel K on February 18, 2005 10:28 AM
56. Other people that rely on statistics are scientists, insurance companies (OK curse the insurance companies, but can you honestly say that you have no insurance - life, higher auto than required by law, in which case you think they are providing a service that is worth the money) and people that try and make sense of data.

They are used as a baseline for discussion where one would expect some additional information to show why there is an error in the analysis. Name calling is not a rebuttal, other than, I guess, gosh you are right but we don't like that result so we will get personal and call you names. Very mature, not to mention convincing.

Posted by: Jonathan on February 18, 2005 10:29 AM
57. Doc says:
"How do you know the dead voted for Gregoire? It's a wash."

How do you know they didn't?

"We are talking less then one vote per precinct in KC!"

Are there more than 129 precincts in KC?

"How can the election board prevent grieving spouses from submitting absentee ballots?"


By checking the readily avalilable lists of people that die, (hint, they are called obituaries).


"And is it really such a big deal?"


By that logic, can we assume you are not concerned about whether your bank follows the laws governing balancing your accounts?

Posted by: dragon on February 18, 2005 10:29 AM
58. Here's what you do Lien: Find the old man featured in the Seattle Times article a few weeks past that had just lost his wife whose last wish was to vote for, and throw him in jail.

There's compassion for you.

Posted by: Doc on February 18, 2005 10:30 AM
59. This blog is the equivalent of yelling fire in a crowded theatre.


I was told by my local neighborhood anti-war activist that it's my responsibility to question my government...he wasn't lying, was he?

Posted by: South County on February 18, 2005 10:33 AM
60. Doc says:
"I'm relying on one single fact: the number of votes cast and the amount received by each party."

So, are you saying you are OK with the illegal votes being counted?

In that case, would you mind if I vote about , oh, say, 3000 times in teh next election? Can anybody do that? Are you OK with that?

Posted by: dragon on February 18, 2005 10:35 AM
61. Doc

The old man who voted for his wife filled out her ballot, forged her signature, and cast her illegal vote for Dino Rossi!

I voted Dino Rossi and her vote for Dino Rossi was still illegal and still morally wrong. He knew it and he accepted the consequences of that decision! The KC election officials should have caught the sighature discrapancy and tossed the ballot out! Unless of course, he had been voting for her for a long time and it's really his signature on her voter registration!

Correct procedures would have stopped this from happening!

Posted by: sgmmac on February 18, 2005 10:35 AM
62. "Here's what you do Lien: Find the old man featured in the Seattle Times article a few weeks past that had just lost his wife whose last wish was to vote for, and throw him in jail."

Or the last wish to be buried in a Rolls Royce, so rob a abnk to get the money and bury him in there. We shouldn't throw the person in jail because that wouldn't be compassionate. Give me a 1,000 breaks! Saying it is OK to illegally sway an election, the core of this democracy, is just fine.

Posted by: Jonathan on February 18, 2005 10:36 AM
63. Jason wrote, "It's funny how some people think that saying something can make it so"

Oh man Jason, you soooo don't want to go there!

Posted by: Daniel K on February 18, 2005 10:36 AM
64. Doc?

That is compassion. The same compassion that drives the taxpayers/LEGAL VOTERS to EXPECT an honest accounting of their ballots.

Do you expect less???? Obivious you do, as you condone the actions of KC and their pitiful excuses.

Carry on Stefan, you are doing a wonderful job of keeping the PUBLIC informed of what REALLY happens in this STATE.

Posted by: Chris on February 18, 2005 10:37 AM
65. I repeatedly read conservative journalist call anti-war demonstrators traitors that should be on trial for treason, they are wrong and my statement was a bit over the top.

Banks are not elections.
Airports are not elections.
Banks are not airports.
Anybody see a pattern?

Posted by: Doc on February 18, 2005 10:38 AM
66. chardonnay wrote, "I ask because Gregoire had been flying to DC while AG meeting with Bill and Hill"

And Rossi hasn't been hobnobbing with Republican leaders in D.C.?

Posted by: Daniel K on February 18, 2005 10:39 AM
67. Doc says:
"Banks are not elections.
Airports are not elections.
Banks are not airports.
Anybody see a pattern?"

But incompetence is still incompetence.

Posted by: dragon on February 18, 2005 10:40 AM
68. "Banks are not elections.
Airports are not elections.
Banks are not airports.
Anybody see a pattern?"

Thank God, I would have to store my money in a can in the back yard, and only travel by car or bus, with the ERROR RATE of the Last Election...

Good point DOC!!!!


Posted by: Chris on February 18, 2005 10:41 AM
69. "And Rossi hasn't been hobnobbing with Republican leaders in D.C.?

Point???? Rossi is a Citizen, not a public official, we dont pay his bills.....

Posted by: chris on February 18, 2005 10:44 AM
70. Doc - I don't think anyone actually mistook an airport for an election. The point is that the level of compentancy can be far higher than in this election, as these other enterprises demonstrate. You know it is that little thing about having some facts to point to. I'm not sure what can be considered more important than having ACCURATE and FAIR elections in this country.

Out of curiousity, do you feel that Bush was fairly elected in 2000? If you are "relying on one single fact: the number of votes cast and the amount received by each party." you must agree that Bush won in 2000.

Posted by: Jonathan on February 18, 2005 10:49 AM
71. We all know that election officials depend on certain documents to inform them of the dead, documents that are notoriously late in arriving, which is what happened in KC.

We also know election officials are not given the resources to check every voter and rely on citizen honesty. Perhaps this should be changed. Elections should certainly be reformed.

But to claim democracy is a farce because a few recently deceased citizens ballots slipped through is just indecent.

Posted by: Doc on February 18, 2005 10:50 AM
72. Where did it ever say that it was "recently" deceased people? Is that just something being added to justify it?

Posted by: Jonathan on February 18, 2005 10:53 AM
73. Yes, I believe Bush won both times on account he got more votes. This is the only fact we need Jonathan.

This blog should be about election reform. We can all agree that something needs to be done.

Posted by: Doc on February 18, 2005 10:54 AM
74. Recently was my assumption. Do you know otherwise?

Posted by: Doc on February 18, 2005 10:56 AM
75. Apparently people are also notoriously late to their own funerals as well. After all they do need to vote!

Posted by: Jonathan on February 18, 2005 10:57 AM
76. Doc says:
"We all know that election officials depend on certain documents to inform them of the dead, documents that are notoriously late in arriving, which is what happened in KC.

We also know election officials are not given the resources to check every voter and rely on citizen honesty. Perhaps this should be changed. Elections should certainly be reformed.

But to claim democracy is a farce because a few recently deceased citizens ballots slipped through is just indecent. "

I don't recall anybody saying the election is a farce because "a few recently deceased citizens ballots slipped through"

This is just a very small portion of the incompetence. The large picture is the cumulative effect of the incompetnce of the elections officials. BTW, If a citizen votes absentee, sends their ballot in, then passes on, their vote is deemed valid. Those that die many months before the absentee ballots are even sent out, and yet manage to vote that are part of the problem. Also, I see you have continued to conveniently ignore the fact that more votes were cast than "voters who voted".

Can't come up with a zinger for that one, can you.

Posted by: dragon on February 18, 2005 10:57 AM
77. Doc - No I don't, which is why I don't put in there. It changes the meaning and severity based on no evidence. That is the issue! Please keep to the facts!

Posted by: Jonathan on February 18, 2005 10:59 AM
78. Doc

It is indecent that that election officials won't tell the truth. They are trying hard to hide it. It is indecent that the left leaning news media doesn't report the truth. It is also indecent to blame citizens and bloggers for government officials errors and mistakes. They need to stand up, tell the truth and take RESPONSIBILITY for it. Dean Logan is blaming the mistakes on his staff...... That is NOT a leader, it is a weasel!

Posted by: sgmmac on February 18, 2005 10:59 AM
79. The difference between an airport and an election is when the former makes a mistake lives are lost. Nobody has died here.

Votes are not money, not yet.

This continual comparison is smoke and mirrors and does everybody a disservice.

Posted by: Doc on February 18, 2005 11:02 AM
80. Doc says:
"Votes are not money, not yet."

But the result of the votes does dictate who controls a very large sum of our money, coes it not?

Posted by: dragon on February 18, 2005 11:03 AM
81. Chris wrote "Rossi is a Citizen, not a public official, we dont pay his bills....."

Right, and ongoing WSP security for Rossi only recently discontinued didn't really cost us $35,000 (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2002182276_rossi17m.html)?

Posted by: Daniel K on February 18, 2005 11:05 AM
82. The election officials are not incompetent, the mistakes cited here can be attributed to the system. Nobody is hiding a thing.

The fact that there are more votes then voters who voted is an accounting problem. Certainly there are more voters then votes.
What is done in an election is count votes.

Posted by: Doc on February 18, 2005 11:09 AM
83. YOu better get ready to spend your money Doc! Your taxes are getting ready to take a dramatic jump into the sky so that you can pay for 160,000.00 worth of artwork at a sexoffenders home, several million dollars of artwork at a sewage plant, a dozen or sex changes and breast implants with your Medicaid dollars and of course hundreds of millions in embryo stem cell cloning, harvesting and reasearch.

The democratic mantra of "Count every vote" put us in this spend spend spend State of Washington!

Posted by: sgmmac on February 18, 2005 11:10 AM
84. Chris wrote "Rossi is a Citizen, not a public official, we dont pay his bills....."

Right, and ongoing WSP security for Rossi only recently discontinued didn't really cost us $35,000 (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2002182276_rossi17m.html)?

Posted by Daniel K at February 18, 2005 11:05 AM


Riiiighhhtttt. And Gregoire didn't really miss those deadlines and cost the taxpayers how many millions of dollars?

Ass you said in a previous post, DanielK:


"you soooo don't want to go there!"

Posted by: dragon on February 18, 2005 11:10 AM
85. Voting is the bedrock of this democracy and country. I don't know if you remember beyond the last election, but sometime before that some people wanted to be able to control their own destiny. They got up and said to King George, we want that right. As I recall, admittedly history is not my strong point, but people did die for that. Americans have died on several other occasions since then for exactly that. And you laugh it off as nothing to significant because your guy won! Incredulous!

Posted by: Jonathan on February 18, 2005 11:11 AM
86. I just heard of another dead voter in Snohomish County that voted, and I know it was ocunted previously.

Posted by: swatter on February 18, 2005 11:11 AM
87. Off topic here but "They need to stand up, tell the truth and take RESPONSIBILITY for it. Dean Logan is blaming the mistakes on his staff...... That is NOT a leader, it is a weasel!" Replace Dean Logan with George Bush and you have an apt description of the direction this country is heading. Has Bush yet admitted a mistake?

And just what is Logan hiding?
Do you really believe there was fraud?

Posted by: Doc on February 18, 2005 11:14 AM
88. "The election officials are not incompetent, the mistakes cited here can be attributed to the system. Nobody is hiding a thing!"

I love it! The people that run the system are blaming the system as if it is another entity! If they can not control the system they are in charge of operating GET THEM OUT!

Posted by: Jonathan on February 18, 2005 11:16 AM
89. sgmmac, I prefer to think of it as investing in my community. Certainly you aren't opposed to helping the community,

Posted by: Doc on February 18, 2005 11:18 AM
90. Jonothan don't you think you are over reacting a bit? There has been no attempt to prevent you from voting, so I see no reason to talk about dying for the cause just yet.

Plus you must grant me the system is non-partisan (remember Rossi had the lead twice).

Posted by: Doc on February 18, 2005 11:22 AM
91. Doc

YES, I personally believe there is fraud. Whether or not is was deliberate is another matter. Furthermore, whether or not those in charge knew it was happening or not is also another matter. When you are partisian, and in a leadership position and only care that your guy is winning and you keep finding new ballots, you are probably not seeing the truth. When you turn your head the other way and ignore complaints because your guy is ahead, it is complicitly allowing fraud.

Posted by: sgmmac on February 18, 2005 11:22 AM
92. Doc

In regards to President Bush, don't go there!
I'm a Republican, I voted for him, I am a retired Army SGM who served in two combat zones......... and was upset that I didn't get to go to Iraq because I was retiring......

Do I need to say more?

Posted by: sgmmac on February 18, 2005 11:24 AM
93. Another reason I'm glad I don't live in L.A. anymore.

And don't look for L.A, to improve their error rate anytime soon. It would hurt the democrats

Posted by: Michele S on February 18, 2005 11:25 AM
94. How is it fraud if it is unintentional?

I'd like you to say more about your unwillingness to invest in your community...

Posted by: Doc on February 18, 2005 11:28 AM
95. Doc sez:

"Banks are not elections.
Airports are not elections.
Banks are not airports.
Anybody see a pattern?"

Yes, Doc, I do see a pattern - 'rats are not to be trusted with the really important stuff!

Posted by: Not Erik on February 18, 2005 11:29 AM
96. Doc

I think it's called waste, fraud and abuse. If a poor demented soul thinks he needs to become a woman, let him pay for it. I don't want to pay for it.

Our government officials have been getting away with spending our money, corrupting our political and election systems for far too long.

If you want dead illegal alien felons voting, stand up and say so. If you want people to vote in two states or two counties, stand up a say so. If you want me to register my pet bird to vote by mail, receive an absentee ballot that I fill out for him, stand up say so!

Every breathing American citizen living in Washington State deserves ONE votej in Washington State.

Posted by: sgmmac on February 18, 2005 11:34 AM
97. Christine Gregoire has a realllllly long history of rubbing noses (and other things) with politicians since Booth Gardner, her mentor.

But I need to ask myself,and you, why does she keep magazines laying all around her office with Rudy Guliani on the cover? That just doesn't make sense, oh wait, he is a truly great leader.

Is this what she aspires to be? To bad it won't be here in Washington, lol, if this is her goal, why is she in hiding? LOL, LOL

ya, great leaders run and hide, duck and cover. what a fake.....I mean FRAUDOIRE.

Posted by: chardonnay on February 18, 2005 11:35 AM
98. Doc - I will grant you that you are missing my point, I don't know if purposely. Your posts seem to try and diminish the importance and sanctity of the vote. Things that are far more complicated - accurately tracking billions of dollars to the penny every day, 1,000s of successful aircraft operations every day - can be done. You basically said that it is OK for the election to be inaccurate as no one's life is on the line for it, as in an unsuccessful aircraft landing. My point is people have died for having self determination and you saying that it isn't important to have a "self determination system" as accurate as any of these other systems is a complete lack of history, what this country stands for, and lack of knowledge of what this country has compared to the rest of the world. So many of us take what we have here for granted due to our ignorance of the rest of the world. The rest of the world has people clamoring to get here – legally or illegally. Ignoring the importance of a valid election system is a deterioration of the system and beginning of stolen elections. As I said before, elections are the bedrock of this country’s democracy. When a few elite rig elections to their benefit as they know what is better for us then we do, we are in serious trouble!

Posted by: Jonathan on February 18, 2005 11:39 AM
99. I want my tax payer dollars to be spent wisely. I want our legislators to spend our money like it's their money. I want honesty, intregity responsiblility in our system of government. I don't want leaders giving their friends, cronies and good old boy's contracts and grants. I want the fraud and corruption to stop! I pay more in taxes in Washington State than my Dad who lives in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Posted by: sgmmac on February 18, 2005 11:40 AM
100. Doc's got everyone wound so tight you couldn't drive a straight pin up their butts with a jackhammer. Doc is the 2nd grade outcast who was always a contrarian and always repeated everything you said to him. He annoys, therefore he is.

Recognize his tripe for what it is. As for LA, go soak your head.

Posted by: dkpcowboy on February 18, 2005 11:41 AM
101. Chardonnay, you know from a liberal perspective Gregoire is a little too republican, it is how she started her career.


Sgmmac, I'm with you. There is far too much waste, far too much money handed out for no good reason. But this is done on both sides of the aisle. We need to look at corporate welfare as well as welfare itself.

And I do want the voting system corrected. But the errors ion the system favored no party ... there was bound to be a winner and a loser.

Posted by: Doc on February 18, 2005 11:42 AM
102. Nice try, Doc.

Posted by: dkpcowboy on February 18, 2005 11:45 AM
103. True there was bound to be a winner and a loser, but most people would have thought the winner would be governor. :)

Posted by: Jonathan on February 18, 2005 11:47 AM
104. As fitting tribute to Doc and Erik:

DINO ROSSI FOR GOVERNOR

www.dinorossi.com

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: Mary Lane

Feb. 18, 2005 (425) 646-7202

Another win on election contest

Another loss for Democrats, Gregoire

Bellevue, WA – Today in Chelan County Superior Court the judge in the gubernatorial election contest handed the Rossi campaign another victory, and the Democrats and Christine Gregoire another setback.

The judge signed the Rossi campaign’s proposed order which summarized the judge’s rulings from the last hearing on Feb. 4. The Rossi campaign offered a straightforward summary of the judge’s rulings, while the Democratic Party attempted to substantially change what the judge actually said two weeks ago.

“Christine Gregoire and the Democrats keep trying to delay and to limit our ability to move forward with this election contest, and they keep failing,” said Rossi spokeswoman Mary Lane.

“We are very happy with the judge’s ruling and we look forward to getting the contest to trial so we can get to the bottom of this flawed election.”

###

Posted by: Not Erik on February 18, 2005 11:48 AM
105. Mr Sharkanski,

Congratulations. You've honed in on the one part of that article that doesn't really matter to the subject at hand. What you should have posted was this part:

"But Los Angeles County Registrar of Voters Conny McCormack also thinks it’s irrelevant.

While King County officials defend the process in question as highly accurate and GOP critics call it shockingly inaccurate, McCormack said it’s a red herring, a flap over a postelection file-maintenance chore that has no bearing on the accuracy of the election returns.

“It has nothing to do with the ballot-counting. It’s a separate process,” she said this week."

Yes, that's right. It's a *red herring*. You insist on comparing the number of voters with a post election process that was never designed or intended to give an accurate number, but instead used to give voter information to parties and help with standard statistical information about the voter rolls. Some day you may finally get this, until you do, perhaps you could save yourself some angst and just give it up.

Posted by: Chris Mahnken on February 18, 2005 11:48 AM
106. I think Goldy is claiming/admitting vote fraud!!

Let me explain. If (IF) you accept that there is 100% reconciliation between voters and ballots at each precinct, then that means that every ballot had a voter and every voter had a ballot per precinct.

Then, during the voter creditation process if you find 1800 more votes than voters who voted, that implies that 1800 people must have voted twice (or 900 people voted 3 times, or some combination), but at different precincts each time.

If there was “error” at the precinct level, you can attribute the 1800 to the accumulation of errors. Claiming no error at the precinct level but finding error during the creditation process necessarily implies double voting, at two different precincts.

(The only other explanation is the reconciliation is so flawed, however, if flawed, reconciliation should be able to be redone correctly.)

For the record, I doubt the precincts were 100% reconciled.

Posted by: VaCSProf on February 18, 2005 11:48 AM
107. Jonathan, I'm not missing your point. I agree about the sanctity of the democratic process. But let's take a step back and a deep breath. The system has never been scrutinized as closely as it is now. Of course the reason for the close look at the system is the closeness of the election. This is true throughout the country. Flaws are being exposed. The system was never designed to be as accurate as an airport or a bank because hitherto it hasn't been necessary. In the rest of the country discrepancies have broken towards the right. In Washington it broke towards the left. It's a done deal.

But let's fix it!

Posted by: Doc on February 18, 2005 12:03 PM
108. notErik,

awesome news, thank you. time to party!!!

Posted by: chardonnay on February 18, 2005 12:03 PM
109. dkpcowboy, I'm contrarian yet I repeat everything that is said to me? Logic is not your strong suit

Posted by: Doc on February 18, 2005 12:07 PM
110. Oh my! Rossi claims another victory. That's news worthy?

Posted by: Doc on February 18, 2005 12:09 PM
111. And recognizing metaphors isn't your strong suit.

Posted by: dkpcowboy on February 18, 2005 12:10 PM
112. Doc, I agree fix it. Lets start with this last election which everyone knows that the errors are far greater then any of the counts. Lets have a fair, validated election in this state and lets expect it to be as accurate as the banking system. Making an excuse for inaccuracies because it wasn't needed is another reason to get rid of the people responsible. They thought they could get away with doing a sloppy job because it didn't matter? That is pathetic! Look what it is costing now.

If you are referring to FL 2000 as breaking to the right, I haven't heard of one count before, during, or after that in anyway changed the election. FL went by their laws, and we are following ours.

Posted by: Jonathan on February 18, 2005 12:11 PM
113. But what precedent allows another election?

Posted by: Doc on February 18, 2005 12:14 PM
114. There are many things that have never happened before that can actually happen. We would be back in the stone age if something has to happen first before we can do it for the first time.

WA law or the constitution (I'm not sure where it is, but I'm sure someone on here does) allows for the election to be set aside for various reasons. As a path to that outcome has been laid, we can follow it and ensure a valid outcome in which the citizens have confidence.

Posted by: Jonathan on February 18, 2005 12:22 PM
115. Anyone hear about Phil Talmage wanting to throw his hat in the ring?
He is publicly speaking about it somewhere.

Posted by: chardonnay on February 18, 2005 12:23 PM
116. Gee, I wonder how exactly precedent gets set?

Posted by: dkpcowboy on February 18, 2005 12:37 PM
117. Why are liberals repeating their phrase "just give it up?" It would seem if they are so sure of their case that they would want this case to proceed, so they can then say, "see, we told you." I hope Rossi is vindicated, but there is no guarantee in our legal system that justice and fairness will prevail. I am willing to wait and let the courts hear the evidence. Our Democratic Legislators said this is case should be tried in court, and they couldn't be wrong, could they?

dkpcowboy is right. Doc is just baiting people.
Doc's one-liners:
How is it fraud if it is unintentional?
Nobody is hiding a thing.
It's time to heal, not divide.
Republicans are trying to dismiss votes based on technicalities.
Gregoire is a little too republican.
The real reason he wants us to quit talking about this election contest: Bush won!

I have probably taken everything out of context, but I watched too much Dan Rather in my hippie years. Everyone has an excuse. King County officials have more than one.


Posted by: JG on February 18, 2005 12:41 PM
118. Just plugged some numbers. Looking up how many votes Rossi would have won by with the illegal votes removed, using a county ratio not a precinct ratio. He would have won by about 30. With a precinct ratio I expect it to be significantly higher.

If you take into account the enhanced ballots and other known irregularities it comes out to over 9700. This is without taking into account democrat staffers voting for those who forgot to vote and their defying the judge's order and only gathering signatures for one side.

I bet it would get over 10000 towards Rossi if the rest of the irregularities had been cleaned up, the laws had been followed, and a valid ID was required. I'm thinking more likely about 15000 towards Rossi.

Each time I run the numbers, see the statistics, and investigate the facts I find an overwhelming understanding of how bad we have been sc++wed in the voting of the past. Doesn't this really rile anyone besides me. Doesn't it peeve off the liberal mouthpieces that we finally found out. They worry about Florida and Ohio while others worry about Minnesota, Washington, and now California. Clean up the elections and lets see what the tallies really are.

Judging from the investigations in Ohio and Florida we know the results for Florida actually were better for the conservatives (1500 towards Bush) and there was little change in the Ohio statewide results. I think what would be an eye opener is the changes here in Washington state and Minnesota Metropolitan area results. How about the changes you can expect in California without the illegal votes. No wonder the Ds fight meaningful election reform.

Posted by: Mark Beyer on February 18, 2005 01:28 PM
119. I just plugged some numbers in my self; when all the precincts are accounted for Gregiore wins by 129!

Posted by: Doc on February 18, 2005 01:42 PM
120. Doc, there you go again, pulling our leg. Let me guess, your endorsing illegal voting?

Posted by: Mark Beyer on February 18, 2005 01:53 PM
121. Speaking of OH, why is it the dems are out there concerned about the narrow victory of 110k+, but say nothing about 129?

Posted by: Jonathan on February 18, 2005 02:06 PM
122. it's all just psycobabble, woodstock ended how many years ago and they are still walking around thinking communism will work.
the 60's mentality is dead, goin nowhere, no one believes it anymore, it failed. communist societies around the world are dying. It won't work here, no matter how hard you lefties try.
doc, you really should go rescue Doc Dean from the Pilosi spies.

Posted by: chardonnay on February 18, 2005 02:17 PM
123. Yikes. And we all thought that 0.2% was bad.

That's just it, Stefan. We'll leave aside the question of whether or not this count is a *red herring* or not, because NOT everyone thinks that 0.2% is such a bad number.

Could it be better? Perhaps... But we're talking about an election that is run in thousands of precincts with thousands of relatively untrained poll volunteer (many of whom are senior citizens and/or relatively uneducated formally).

A few legislative fixes or a citizen's initiative aren't going to change that to 100%. We would need to consider far more extreme ideas like an all-mail ballot election or moving elections to a weekend or national holiday to allow for more highly educated and better-trained workers.

And, by the way, let's stop trying to compare maintaining the safety of airplanes in the air to counting pieces of paper. Although, for the record, banks have nowhere near 100% accuracy. Just ask anyone who works as a teller.

Posted by: Michael on February 18, 2005 02:53 PM
124. Goldy, spin all you want, but it can never erase the fact that the apparent margin of victory was 129, but KC alone cannot find voters for a couple thousand ballots, not to mention all the illegal votes that occurred (provisionals unchecked, dead people, double-voters,etc. illegal ballot marking by KC, et al).

Posted by: Michele S on February 18, 2005 03:12 PM
125. Commenter Ken Hahn, are you related to the current L.A. mayor in any way? Are you THE KENNETH Hahn? I'm an L.A. native and I know that last name to be significant :-) when we're talking about LA...

Posted by: Michele S on February 18, 2005 03:14 PM
126. The obvious solution, from a Californiano - throw out the King County results until they learn how to obey the laws.

Posted by: Walter E. Wallis on February 18, 2005 03:42 PM
127. LOL Walter E Wallis, that is the best suggestion I have heard in the past 2 months.

I agree....KC OUT unil you get it right.

Posted by: Chris on February 18, 2005 03:54 PM
128. And what would the welfare counties do without KC?

Posted by: Doc on February 18, 2005 04:05 PM
129. Doc And what would the welfare counties do without KC?

Could you please list those counties that the elite King County supports?

Posted by: rockman on February 18, 2005 05:36 PM
130. Doc Says = "And what would the welfare counties do without KC?"

those counties would live in peace, without "KING county" shoving all it's Lefty ideas of land grabbing.

Posted by: Chris on February 18, 2005 09:16 PM
131. Doc one more thing, The other counties would have Rossi for Gov, and KC can keep Gregoire....

Posted by: Chris on February 19, 2005 06:53 AM
132. I love the "any banker would love this kind of accuracy" comment, but the really relevant analogy never gets made. Bank of America has, according to the last financial statement I saw, $675B in assets under management--if suddenly .2% of them disappeared, that would be $1.35B that suddenly went unaccounted for. If that happened to BofA, I think we'd all expect someone would be going to jail for that. Heck, the former CFO of MCI *is* going to jail for a King County-like overstatement. In King County however, it's grounds for praise if you live in the magical fairy world of Ron Sims.

Posted by: Marc on February 19, 2005 04:08 PM
133. Doc is full of himself - just wants to hear himself bloviate and see if he can trip up whoever or push some buttons. He doesn't care about corruption - he may say he does, but look at his arguments - smoke and mirrors (heavy on the smoke - like THC). His Democrat Socialist buddies will get a rude awakening in 2006 if not before. Look at the big picture - one day at a time.

Posted by: KS on February 19, 2005 11:37 PM
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