January 27, 2005
Property Rights, Secession Revolts Brewing In WA

Oregon's successful Measure 37 property rights salvo is boosting support just across the Columbia River in Washington state's Clark County for a similar statewide rural property owners revolt, as The Oregonian reports (quick, 3-step reg. req.). And - closer to Seattle - in eastern King County.

Now, in addition, Washington State Rep. Toby Nixon (R-45) is seeking a committee hearing in the Democrat-controlled House on HB 1500.

It has to do with how a new county can be established, and that's no academic question. King County, even apart from it's egregious bungling of votes in the 2004 gubernatorial election, continues to alienate rural residents with heavy-handed regulation, imperious decision-making and declining services. A small taste here, from the second-linked (Seattle Times) story above:

Myra Lemson, who lives and grows roses on an acre-plus east of Redmond, says her complaints go back years: She had to pay for a private road to get access to her home; she says she pays the same taxes, yet gets a lower quality of public services (such as slower police-response times) than those in more urban areas. Under the new rules, she could have to pay for a permit to remove the blackberries that plague her property and house rats.

"I am a Democrat, and this has been a struggle for me," Lemson said. "The only members of the council who have even responded to my concerns are Republicans."

A 1998 Washington state Supreme Court ruling indicated half of registered voters in a proposed new county must sign petitions to force further consideration of the issue. Among other things, HB 1500 lowers the threshold to 25 percent.

A root concern in eastern King County, discussed here at Sound Politics before, is the county's dictatorial Critical Areas Ordinance (CAO). It restricts use of up to 65 percent of their land for property owners in unincorporated parts of the county. Even if they bought before the new rules were imposed - with nest eggs in mind, having hoped to subdivide their parcel and sell some for home construction - there is no compensation for the government-effected hit to their investments.

As a Seattle resident who looks favorably on high-density development in the city and expanded public transit in the city and suburbs (go ahead readers, flog me, I'm used to it by now), I nonetheless cannot stomach the arrogance of King County in imposing the CAO on rural property owners with no compensatory framework. Similar regulations are what fueled Measure 37 in Oregon, and that train is riding right into Washington within the next few election cycles.

And while it's all too easy for my fellow Seattleites, most of them sneering, dismissive liberal clones, to belittle and mock the re-nascent eastern King County secession movement, I believe that, ah, excuse me for framing it this way, "choice" is the operative word here.

Unreasonable obstacles to a public vote on secession should be removed. That will likely not occur with Democrats in control of the legislature, but it is never to soon to begin agitating. Toby Nixon is on the right track.

Geographically, King County is absurdly huge: the boundaries to the east go far beyond any reasonable distance. It makes no sense whatever for folk who live in the largely rural and far-flung unincorporated parts of King County to NOT be able to decide for themselves whether to have their own county government.

Yet, once again, the political establishment's response is to subvert the will of the people to decide their own affairs. Make that, the Democrats' response.

Posted by Matt Rosenberg at January 27, 2005 07:02 PM | Email This
Comments
1. Sadly, the Republican Party has not been on this issue like they should have been, and party leadership, in fact, has warned Republican candidates against making it an issue. That's one of the reasons I came to the conclusions I did about the race for State Chair.

Posted by: Timothy on January 27, 2005 06:58 PM
2. Sad that we on the Eastside are held hostage by Seattle. Since we have little to no voice we are consistently ignored and abused (CAO) by the County Council.

There is no better time to begin a new county then now!

FREEDOM!!!

Posted by: Joe on January 27, 2005 07:53 PM
3. Property rights is not just a King County issue!

Pierce County has their own version of the CAO! And this trend of imposing liberal government and radical enviro's will on the people is spreading like a cancer in this State!

I don't own land in any measurable amount (over 2 acres)...but I would love to one day! To think that the county can dictate to me - how I use my land is absurd!

This is not a King or Pierce County issue! This is an American issue! This is a constitutional issue.

Everyone has a stake in this! Simply amputating yourself from King County is not going to stop this. The entire idea of grabbing land rights from the people is wrong!

Posted by: Deborah on January 27, 2005 07:59 PM
4. As a Seattle resident who looks favorably on high-density development in the city and expanded public transit in the city and suburbs (go ahead readers, flog me, I'm used to it by now),

Nah. Not unless you call yourself a hero.

The problem with ignoring planning concerns in favor of one's own exclusive interests is the old "Tragegy of the Commons."

Bassically it means that a bad general outcome can come about for all if everyone acts exclusively in their self interest. Its somewhat of a Liberatrian approach to urban and rural planning.

Tragedy

If anyone wants to see what happens to an area without planning, look no futher that south Pierce County, a sprawling ugly set of Burger Kings, Blockbuster videos, and strip malls. Its like watching the old cartoons where the background keeps repeating itself.

Posted by: Erik on January 27, 2005 08:03 PM
5. Erik, you've completely misread the "tragedy of the commons." The tragedy of the commons occurs when everyone owns the land. The tragedy is averted if people have property rights and own their own land. Something King County is making more difficult.

Posted by: Timothy on January 27, 2005 08:12 PM
6. Based on the 2000 census, King County is the 12th most populous county in the United States. Government doesn't like to create new counties in this era and purposely makes it hard to do. But I think much, if not most, of the this state would like to see it happen.

For MANY reasons, King County is too big.

Posted by: Nancy on January 27, 2005 08:36 PM
7. I'll admit up front that I've been affected financially by the CAO, but as someone who considers himself an environmentalist in principle, I've been appalled at the conduct of King County over the past two years.

I won't rehash all my arguments here - I already sent them to the county... who promptly ignored them. The core argument is that a council elected by a majority who are unaffected by these rules are "solving" environmental problems by grossly inefficient means. Intelligent (say, market-driven) spending of a tiny fraction of the wealth they're destroying could address all of the core concerns. But of course, then the whole "environmentally-minded" KC populace would have to share this much-reduced bill. Much easier to just take a bunch more out of the pockets of voters who can't kick you out of office. Downright creepy stuff, especially the attitude of Mr. Sims and his henchmen.

I've been hoping that Rossi will at least allow Cedar County to secede from King if they want to, although I know little about his opinions or powers in this department. Anyone have any info to share?

Posted by: Mitsubob on January 27, 2005 08:39 PM
8. You sum up the situation pretty well, Matt. Watching this CAO thing unfold is pretty upsetting for me because I grew up in a rural area. I enjoy the city now, despite all the nincompoops and angry, sanctimonous nonsense one needs to withstand in Seattle, but having been on both sides of the fence, I can say with certainty that city-slickers don't know a damn thing about rural areas.

Put one of your typical Seattle holier-than-thou types out in the wilderness, stepping further away than a 100 yards from their SUV, and off a forrest service managed trail, and they would and do panic.

Since the powers-that-be do not respect or appreciate diversity, the people in rural King County definitely should have their own damn county. I suspect that what really worries the rightous Democrats is that if a new county were formed, it would quickly grow to include several cities, probably pushing all the way up to Lake Washington. And, as we all know, that side of the lake is where the money is.

In the county I grew up in, which is very scenic and anti-growth, they compromised on this issue. People are allowed to either (1) pay property taxes at normal rates and do whatever the hell they want, or (2) pay "farm" rates, which are much lower, and which everyone knows means that the land will go undeveloped indefinitely. The catch is that if you change from the "farm" classification to "normal," you have to pay all the back taxes.

That, I guess, is too reasonable of a proposal for the royalty running King County.

Posted by: DeadManVoting (aka Iguana) on January 27, 2005 08:48 PM
9. It's nice to see that the citizens of King County who live outside the more densely settled urban and suburban areas are awakening to the dangers posed to their property rights.

But what chance do they have of a political settlement of the dispute? They're greatly outnumbered.

The city folk want to know that there are nature preserves out there in the hinterlands somewhere, but don't want to purchase the land for those preserves.

Unless the folks who want someone else's land to be used as a nature preserve are required to compensate the owners for this use of the owners' land, there is nothing to stop the abuse of the government's police power.

The minority would always be at the mercy of the majority, if this were a pure democracy -- but it's supposed to be a constitutional republic.

Posted by: Micajah on January 27, 2005 08:49 PM
10. Yeah, they are greatly outnumbered Micajah. But, we need to present this to people in a way they can understand. In terms of the people of Seattle being told that they can't use something they care about they way they see fit.

Perhaps if beansprouts and soy milk were regulated in some peculiar way ... all soy milk will be taxed at 200% and the only flavor available will be apricot.

Posted by: DeadManVoting (aka Iguana) on January 27, 2005 08:59 PM
11. HAH! You've got nothing on a pubbie in Georgia - DailyPundit:

Maybe three or four times a week, I scan through Neal Boortz's online column, Nealz Nuze, mostly as a read-through link to other places and other views. Sometimes, though, one of Neal's own pieces hooks my interest. The exploits of Eric Johnson, a Pack pol and pork-barreler from Savannah, President Pro-Tem of the Georgia Senate, definitely pulled me in. I'll let Neal explain a bit:

"...Eric Johnson wants any government entity in Georgia to be able to seize private property, your home, your office, your raw land, and turn it over to a private developer. Your property would then become an office building, a parking garage, a transportation facility, a baseball stadium, a telecommunications facility or any number of other wonderful things. It would then be operated by the developer for profit, and at some time in the future would be turned over to the government that condemned it.

Now, here's something rather interesting.The idea for this seizure of private property doesn't have to originate with the governmental entity! Under this law a private developer can just cruise around town until he finds a piece of property that he thinks would make a neat public facility. He then goes to his favorite politician and says something like "Look, Sam. I found this piece of property on the east side of town that I think would make a great government office building. The owner wants too much money. If you'll just seize this property and put it in my hands, I'll build that office building. I'll lease it out for about ten years, then I'll turn it over to you. Whaddaya think?..." (emphasis added...

Posted by: Sandy P on January 27, 2005 09:00 PM
12. "Myra Lemson, who lives and grows roses on an acre-plus east of Redmond, says her complaints go back years: She had to pay for a private road to get access to her home; she says she pays the same taxes, yet gets a lower quality of public services (such as slower police-response times) than those in more urban areas. Under the new rules, she could have to pay for a permit to remove the blackberries that plague her property and house rats.
"I am a Democrat, and this has been a struggle for me," Lemson said. "The only members of the council who have even responded to my concerns are Republicans."

Gee, Myra,it sounds like you should consider changing parties.

Posted by: Brent W on January 27, 2005 10:44 PM
13. Remember the Montana Freemen? How about Ruby Ridge? Think it'll happen in Washington one day soon??? Why not? We've got plenty of well armed ruralites who are horked off with the government.

Seccession? Revolution is more like it!

Posted by: CR ACTIVIST on January 27, 2005 11:40 PM
14. The problem with ignoring planning concerns in favor of one's own exclusive interests is the old "Tragegy of the Commons."

Bassically it means that a bad general outcome can come about for all if everyone acts exclusively in their self interest. Its somewhat of a Liberatrian approach to urban and rural planning.

Tragedy

If anyone wants to see what happens to an area without planning, look no futher that south Pierce County, a sprawling ugly set of Burger Kings, Blockbuster videos, and strip malls. Its like watching the old cartoons where the background keeps repeating itself.

Posted by Erik at January 27, 2005 08:03 PM


We hicks sure are lucky to have someone like you to tell us how to live. (/sarc)

Liberals! Is there anything they don't know?

BTW...your comment is stupid beyond description...why don't you pull your head out of your @ss, and someone can explain why for you.

Posted by: South County on January 27, 2005 11:50 PM
15. Myra Lemson, welcome to the Republican party. The Dems left you long ago while you weren't looking...

Posted by: Michele S on January 28, 2005 12:09 AM
16. and Erik, clearly you haven't been told that 2/3 of your property is now off-limits to you for doing much of anything on it. There are those of us who 10 years ago had no idea we'd be buying acreage and now that we have, understand the horrid impact of this on people. It's outrageous!

Posted by: Michele S on January 28, 2005 12:12 AM
17. OK, Matt, please report for your flogging:

I have absolutely no objection to high-density urban development, or mass transit either, per se--but please tell me why I should be forced to subsidize it. Or, as an alternative, point out that mass transit system that doesn't operate at at highly-subsidized loss.

Posted by: Kirk Parker on January 28, 2005 01:02 AM
18. OK, does anybody think that it's time for some civil disobedience? How about refusing to pay your property taxes? Mind you, I'm a renter, but thanks to the tin pantheon here and in Oly, that may never change.

Posted by: Bruce V. Bracken on January 28, 2005 01:32 AM
19. If anyone wants to see what happens to an area without planning, look no futher that south Pierce County, a sprawling ugly set of Burger Kings, Blockbuster videos, and strip malls.

And yet, strangely enough, there are millions of people who would rather live there than in some dense-pack urban Habitrail. Obviously, those people are wrong, and must be denied their choice of lifestyle by the Learned Council of Urban Liberals.

Posted by: Matt J Kurlander on January 28, 2005 03:07 AM
20.
How about we start at the source?

http://www.archives.gov/national_archives_experience/charters/declaration_transcript.html

For King County's Richard Sims has declared himself King.

Posted by: Anna on January 28, 2005 07:17 AM
21. Thats Ron Sims, right? Tell me there isn't another Sims out there claiming to be King...

Posted by: Sims City on January 28, 2005 07:31 AM
22. It's even worse than you read about in the papers. The county (King Commie) will send out an "expert" to evaluate anything you might want to do - Like Myra clearing her blackberries - for a fee of $140 per hour (which she has to pay). That individual will then determine if out of the kindness of his/her heart she can clear them AND how much the permit will cost. Talk about chutzpah.
they also require, and don't publicize, that the property owners keep a fifteen foot "wildlife corridor" on each side of adjoining property. So now we also lose more property that we can't touch. And it goes on and on. The Boston Tea Party sounds like a great idea about now.
No Taxation without Utilization!

Posted by: Paladin on January 28, 2005 07:46 AM
23. As someone who owns 10 acres in Maple Valley and 40 acres in eastern Oregon ,I must agree with the person who says this is not just a King county problem.In Oregon we are constantly being dictated by liberals from Portland trying to get control of our property.I am continually going to city planning meetings because the city my farm is closest to keeps trying to annex my farm.Thank the voters for Ref.37 even though I voted in Wash.I am still all for requiring 65% of all concrete and asphalt in Seattle to be jackhammered and force the residents to plant trees.See how it works in urban areas .That is where its really needed,then county residents would not have to drive to North Bend and Selleck to see trees.Like the old adage "charity begins at home".If its so great to save rural areas then make the whole county rural.I know its not practical but it makes a good argument.Ha.

Posted by: smutly on January 28, 2005 07:49 AM
24. I stand corrected, it is Ron Sims. I guess I ahd him confused at this early hour with Richard Simmons, the horror.

But when in the course of human events....

Posted by: Anna on January 28, 2005 07:57 AM
25. Smutly, I like your idea. The city jerks should have to follow the same rules.

If anyone is organizing a protest, I'll show up for it.

These people make me sick. They are such spoiled brats.

Posted by: DeadManVoting (aka Iguana) on January 28, 2005 08:16 AM
26. You might find it interesting to note the Boston Tea Party was actually more of a protest against English imposed tax breaks for the big boys while keeping the local tea merchant's tax the same thus promoting unfair competition, kind of like the King's version of corporate welfare. Anyways, and this comes from a Seattle-pro-urban-density liberal (or libertarian) I have to agree with most here. Your land is your land. If you want to parcel it off and make it into Orange County North, that is your right. Why people care about what people do in areas they never go to is beyond me. This kind of crap is always a no-win situation for all involved.

Posted by: CandrewB on January 28, 2005 08:21 AM
27. The King Co. CAO and similar regulations in Pierce Co. are the single most dangerous attacks on our freedom as Americans that I can think of. Some guy named "Grant", a mindless Democrat robot, called in Carlson's show recently and gleefully said; "we're coming after your property rights state wide, and we're coming after your guns and there's nothing you can do about it". I don't know who "Grant" is. I hope he's just a deranged liberal shut-in. But if he has as much inside knowledge of what Democrats are planning as he tried to make the audience believe he does, then we're all going to have to fight like hell and maybe even learn the art of "dirsuptive protest" to protect our way of life and our freedom.

Posted by: Scott on January 28, 2005 09:01 AM
28. Snohomish County has the same rural northeast/urban southwest tensions as King County. The previous 'Freedom County' farce was led by some rightwing nutjobs and didn't do anything but provide Herald article material, but the tension is real. Only the fact that county council swing seat has been GOP (Nelson) kept the previous County Exec (Drewel) from Sims-like behavior. For now, the new County Exec (Aaron Reardon - up and coming Dem - watch for him statewide in 5-10 years) seems to be a better politician, so I expect CAO-like activities beyond anything mandated by the GMA are on the back burner. But anything's possible with a change in the political winds.

Posted by: TimF on January 28, 2005 09:02 AM
29. I chuckled this past hunting season (elk) when my husband and I met up with a Gent in a BMW on a Logging road in rural lewis county. He was from seattle, and "scouting" for Bow Hunting areas. This Gent was mystified by the "Beauty" of the area. He didnt have a clue, that his car wasnt made for the road he was driving, nor the Log Trucks that could run him off the road, because he had no radio (CB). But the "Beauty" he said. This same area is "poor". The people are hard working, but not able to afford a BMW to drive around. His definition of "Beauty" is another mans definition of Survival.....I think the survivor should get to chose how his land is used, not the one seeking the "Beauty".

Posted by: Chris on January 28, 2005 09:04 AM
30. ...why don't you pull your head out of your @ss, and someone can explain why for you.

Well...that wasn't very temperate, was it?

Posted by: South County on January 28, 2005 09:55 AM
31. Seattle should be forcibly excluded from the rest of King County. Let it really become a City and County of San Francisco North, and a whole lot of problems would go away. (If it goes quietly, give it Mercer Island and Medina as a prize).

Posted by: Raoul Ortega on January 28, 2005 10:42 AM
32. Only a 5-year resident of WA, I'm still becoming geograhpically educated here. I was totally shocked last year while skiing at Stevens Pass to see the King County Sheriff respond to an incident. I could not believe that King County stretched that far. It's ludicrous huge.

Seattle City life being to drastically different from rural/semi-rural life, I fail to see how anyone in Seattle should have any say in how the eastern county population live. Most of them don't even travel that far out to the scary boonies, where mountain lions or hicks might attack them.

There has to be a legal process in which Cedar County can come to be. My family lives in Snohomish County and we want move closer to our jobs in Redmond, but not if it means living in King County. Not if I can't buy some acres and design a dirtbike track out back because the snobs living in Seattle see dirtbikes as evil, filthy transports of satan.
And not while the stupidly high taxes eastern county residents are paying are funding downtown Seattle projects that benefit downtown Seattle people.

It's just wrong that King County feeds so much rubbish to everyone else in the State. 'Majority rules' should take into account geographical locations on top of just volume of people.
Go Cedar County, you can do it!

Posted by: manderson on January 28, 2005 10:53 AM
33. Good riddance.
I'm absolutely sick and tired of the rest of the state trying to dictate how we in King Country live our lives. King County is the cultural, and economic heartland of this state.

We send over 65% of our tax dollars east of the cascades..to fund THEIR rural lifestyle, while having to put up with sub-standard funding for our schools, urban transit, and cultural institutions.
Screw Eastern washington. Let them secede..please!
In fact, redraw the state lines.

Turn greater Seattle and Portland and form a new state...Cascadia. Let Eastern Washington and Oregon merge with Idaho, and turn into another Mississippi. They can go strip mine all they want, lower taxes all they want, kill public services and send their kids to church for schooling. When these kids graduate, they can work on the farm, or at the local walmart or McDonalds. Enjoy!

I'll stay here in King County..and enjoy the benefits of civilization.

Posted by: M on January 30, 2005 09:09 PM
34. First off, M, it's not the rest of the state that's had it with Seattle (they have but that's not the issue at hand), it's the rest of King County. You left-wing whackos have a totally distorted sense of reality brought on by your inability to accept any point of view but the one in which you've been thoroughly brainwashed.
I don't want to tell you how to live, but by the same token I don't want you telling me how to live. And that's what's happening with this issue. It's my property, I pay the taxes on it, not you. When you pay the taxes you can have a say in what is done. I live here every day, you live in your concrete garden. It's real easy to be altruistic when it's someone else picking up the tab. That's the issue and you obviously are too dense to understand.

Posted by: Paladin on January 31, 2005 07:31 AM
35. No...its YOU that don't get it. You do not live in your own little kingdom. There are 2.5 million+ people living in the same region, so what YOU do with your land affects everyone else around you. We no longer live in a frontier society, with everyone having 40 acres and a mule.

When YOU clearcut your land, you take away trees that contribute to cleaner air and water, and wildlife for the rest of us. When YOU sell your land to a developer to pave over, it affects overall rainwater drainage for the region. When YOU burn brush on your property, it affects MY air quality. When YOU subdivide your land, and a "developer" builds 40 suburban tract houses on it, it affects MY traffic, MY air polution and MY property values. The water supply for Greater Seattle comes from rural king county. No way in hell do I want you polluting it with your irresponsible land stewardship. Get it?
I too own land in King County. I can't build a deck on my house, because my neighbors backyard could flood. I can't cut down my trees, because that would decrease air quality in the city, and affect my neighbors shade. I can't put a second story on my house, because this could affect my neighbors view, and lower his property values. When you live in a metro region, everything you do affects others. If you don't like it...leave.

As population density increases, individuals impact on others increases. Therefore regulations, and even social services must increase. This is why urban areas tend to be overwhelmingly liberal..we've learned to live with others side by side. This is why rural areas are populated mostly by right-wingers, who tend to be selfish individualists. King County is NOT "god's country"..you can move east of the cascades for that.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few...or the one".

Posted by: M on January 31, 2005 06:57 PM
36. Ok..reading further up, I see that a lot of the whining is about property taxes. We already have some of the lower property tax rates around, compared to many other places. Living in Seattle now, I know for a fact our rates are a fraction of the rates in NJ, and significantly lower than most of the east coast, including red states like NC. So..what is the whining about?

Of course, in NJ, your massive property taxes buy you one of the best public school systems in the country. Yes, services cost money.

Seems to apply for taxes in general. The "Evergreen Freedom foundation wackos claim this is the "5th highest taxed state" in the country. Bullcrap.

In NC, we had 6% sales tax, 7% income tax, and higher property tax rates. And this is a red state. Washington states is a tax haven by comparison.

Posted by: M on January 31, 2005 09:46 PM
37. M, your one statement says it all - "living in Seattle now". You don't live in the rural area so you know squat about what you're ranting over. When they make these rules that have zero impact on the urban areas that's discriminatory. The large developers are, for the most part, unaffected by this. They're the ones scalping the land with impunity. It's only the small property owners who are prohibited from doing anything. If a tree falls on my property, undeer CAO, I have to leave it. Can you say fire trap? Your one brain cell has obviously been washed too many times. When are you going to tear down your house and plant trees in its place? According to the state assessment of the GMA and King County's own report, the rural landowners are doing a good job of stewardship. They both fault the urban areas. So when will you take responsibility for what you're doing?
Go hug someone else's tree, you're not coming near mine.

Posted by: Paladin on February 1, 2005 08:58 AM
38. M, your one statement says it all - "living in Seattle now". You don't live in the rural area so you know squat about what you're ranting over. When they make these rules that have zero impact on the urban areas that's discriminatory. The large developers are, for the most part, unaffected by this. They're the ones scalping the land with impunity. It's only the small property owners who are prohibited from doing anything. If a tree falls on my property, undeer CAO, I have to leave it. Can you say fire trap? Your one brain cell has obviously been washed too many times. When are you going to tear down your house and plant trees in its place? According to the state assessment of the GMA and King County's own report, the rural landowners are doing a good job of stewardship. They both fault the urban areas. So when will you take responsibility for what you're doing?
Go hug someone else's tree, you're not coming near mine.

Posted by: Paladin on February 1, 2005 08:58 AM
39. Oh, M, for your information, rural areas are populated by people who don't necessarily need to live in their neighbor's pocket.
And when they talk about the tax rate they're referring to the effective tax rate which includes the hidden taxes in the cost of everything you buy. It's not just the sales and income taxes. Accounting 101.
By the way, just how much of the concrete your surrounded by absorbs rain water. That's what causes the flooding and what sends all the pollutants, including the oil drips from your car, into the sound and rivers. I think you need to go back to the real world for some education. Yours seems to come only from Star Trek.
Gort, klaatu baraada nikto.

Posted by: Paladin on February 1, 2005 10:23 AM
40. Urban areas are of course zoned as urban. I have far stricter restrictions on my 1/8th of an acre of land, then you do in rural areas. Still, what you do on your land can, and does affect others in the county. Yes, Seattle is paved over, but we're also home to over 600000 people. How many people live in your vast wasteland?

On taxes, its obvious YOU need to take some economics classes. What "effective tax rate" do you refer to? Are you talking about the paltry 1% B&O tax? big deal.

No. I think what you refer to is that the anti-tax wackos always take into account FEDERAL taxes. Of course we have a high average federal tax expenditure. King County has some of the wealthiest people in the nation here..think that skews things a bit. These people buy a lot of stuff, which raises revenues from sales tax. Finally, sales tax, until last year, was not deductable from federal taxes, so that skewed the numbers. Dig deeper, and you'll find we pay FAR less in taxes than most "normal" states.

Posted by: m on February 1, 2005 04:00 PM
41. M,What if I selectively harvest(cut some, leave others) the timber on my land? they are my trees. What if I want to sell some of my land for large lot development(as opposed to paving over for high density development)? Its my land. What if I burn brush in an area remote from other folks? Forest fires put much more particulate matter into the air than man ever thought to. Most rural development has little or no impact on flooding because the environmental impacts are low due to very low density development. If you want to use the argument that everything that everybody does adversely affects everyone else than quit breathing because you are now polluting my air.

Posted by: Preston on February 1, 2005 08:09 PM
42. Action item for HB 1500: Call Rep. Geoff Simpson(360.786.7918) and politely express extreme interest in getting a hearing for HB 1500. Toby Nixon introduced the bill, but it will die a quiet death in committee unless several dozen people -- that's probably all it takes -- call and nag Simpson to change his mind and give it a hearing. (http://www1.leg.wa.gov/house/simpson)

Posted by: TB on February 2, 2005 07:05 AM
43. M, let's see if you can follow this. Back in finance 101 we looked at all the taxes that you neglect to take into account in your somewhat myopic view. All the taxes that businesses pay end up in the cost of everything you buy. That's part of the effective tax rate and it refers to individuals not collective (there's the socialist mindset at work again). When you go to the doctor you think they don't factor in their taxes into the fee they charge you?
If we follow your flawed arguement to it's logical conclusion, I have to agree with Preston, quit breathing you're polluting my air as well.
Our Founding Fathers left us the option to change government when it becomes too oppressive. It's time.

Posted by: Paladin on February 2, 2005 07:31 AM
44. Eastern Washington and Oregon should unite with Idaho, and eastern King County should become its own county. The collectivists in Seattle and elsewhere must be brought down.

Posted by: Dach on May 24, 2005 08:15 AM
45. land grabbing rights - only thing to do is become a realtor educted as possible - overnight this has become a new age where if everybody wants to keep any little thing - such a farm or land for freedom - has to keep 6 things to anything of land: show that ones property brings in tax revenue high for the county and bunch of other
stuff

This does be the end of the world as we know it when they do say this ruling at supreme court that the stakes have been raised by 6 times now
that only the money pulling in and educated and business savy can hold land - even farming may not be enough to show one pulls in revenue
so fight business with business pull together and start a business for nature - more inns I say
and get direct TV show 'fine living' helpful
in saving money actually
everybody become a realtor or real estate proffesional

welcome to supreme territorialness
the prehistoric age has only just begun

so read those law books and real estate books
everybody must read read read the law law law
bring in renue revenue revenue
even though no such thing as needing tax for IRS
thius does be mind game since no such thing as money

drink plenty of water
and order some real estate books from amazon.com ya'll

and info from internet print out
start a law library
being a lawyer can be and realtor (and educated in developement or developer can be the easiest job in the world)

read those county minutes !
problem be not reading minutes in town
I know I wish we could have more fun
but this be one manner how the future doesn't as soon end up a concentration camp

new manner of lifestyles: easier than ever travelers to stay at hotels hotels generate revenue
want keep farms turn into a hotel or bed and breakfast get some others into attachment to this place and make it appealing to bring in money for the town and establish that before they get to your should bulldozed and somebody come in and do it

by planning can do something

turning into nature preserve might not be the answer since they sometimes will end up selling land to the government

so do cabins and all sorts of beutiful planned recreational places for

if want plan I am a private designer
show a pic of place and I'll draw a pic of an ideal bed and breakfast (natural plants and animals that should be there for geography and make list of plants that attract any animal preferred) or something to help start business for quite small fee of $20.00 for any size drawing

Posted by: aphid on July 10, 2005 03:48 PM
46. yes M yes

we live in world that supposed to be knowing all we do affects others

reason for floods - cutting trees - they are stars - they soak up all the rain water and send balanced fogs into the air then they bring balanced rains

best thing one can do scoop out leaves and break trees growing in stream also earths veins and need to free

more important than anything to fix the water not pollute the water since water be more sensitive than

second transplant trees
and help squirrels since they planted all the ancient forest by accident of leaving bulbs not
found by them esp. all big oak trees

not birds they didnt do that but birds hep flowers to grow

giving them a seperate feeder for themselves over there where see them most

each squirrel prolly plants dozens of trees
in lifetime

eating something else if at rural place
can get tularemia from eating them

getting mad at them for coming into the attic (don't spread disease or eat dead things)

and meditate on third eye - everyone of power has to that


Posted by: aphid on July 10, 2005 04:16 PM
47. snap out of the brainwashed modern SUV driving
tree chopping for money my land
nobody owns land
land own we
noone serves a purpose on the planet if they are for natures freedom and liberation and make love and music and grow things on her body

we were all meant to be nature spirits if we are meant to stay on the planet terrestria (earth)
those who don't wanto be nature spirits are the ones that must build a spaceship to leave and have the experiment of living on that since the experiment of living on earth be meant to be
some libran
business and malls are part of that freedom not part of anything

suns gonna heat up the photon belt soon
and also mother nature knows who who friends are

furthermore emotions are us and aren't human best emotionelss can be positive

humans mirror their existance
yes they will if they don't do for earth all they can


Posted by: aphid on July 10, 2005 04:29 PM
48. alright I was tired on last comment - bah
meant to say if 'aren't for natures freedom'
and humans yes they will - go extinct - unless at least have in heart want to be a nature spirit turn inward be an earth angel
blessed be up there in WA

Posted by: aphid on July 10, 2005 09:28 PM
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